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Subject: Machine Screws


Author:
Jon
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 19:45:48 12/13/15 Sun

Looking for 8-24x3/4” machine screws, shouldered if possible. Note this is 8-24 or coarse thread, NOT 8-32!

Screws are used for built-in furniture in my house. The screws attach from the rear into drawer and door pulls. The furniture being a “breakfront” or built-in china cabinet in each dining room of my 2 flat apartment (Craftsman interior, brick Four Square exterior) building built in 1914. Wood species is furniture “grade”, fine grained (old growth!) 5/4 red oak. Construction/assembly is dovetailed drawers with door frames rabbeted & doweled. Glass in doors and mirrors are beveled. Interior rear walls is beaded oak and shelves red oak planks.

From what info I can dig up this size was “discontinued” in the late 1940’s per a description in my father’s 14th Edition, 1951 publish date, Machinery’s Handbook. MH indicated this size/pitch was also used in gunsmithing.

I have verified the thread pitch with a pitch guage and shaft diameter with a calipers. My efforts were double checked by a local machine shop.

The machine shop offered to re-tap with a 8-32 bottoming tap so I could substitute a “modern” screw. As a bit of a purist, I’d like to stay with the current 8-24 screws. There are a total of 35 screws.

What I’m looking for is 50 screws and 10 nuts in 8-24 pitch. Screws could be longer than 3/4”, using a nut on the longer shaft and cutting down to the proper length, then “restoring” the threads by unscrewing the nut. Extra screws & nuts would be saved for future use.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Machine Screws


Author:
Wes
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:44:30 12/14/15 Mon

We sure get into strange things around here sometimes.

Just out of curiosity, I called a guy locally who does machine shop work. He says that these could be built by almost anyone who does custom machine work and who knows what he's doing -- not everyone would be up for it, though. (He wouldn't but he's a production shop.) The price might be a little steep, but it might be worth it to you in a restoration deal.

-- Wes


>Looking for 8-24x3/4” machine screws, shouldered if
>possible. Note this is 8-24 or coarse thread, NOT 8-32!
>
>Screws are used for built-in furniture in my house.
>The screws attach from the rear into drawer and door
>pulls. The furniture being a “breakfront” or built-in
>china cabinet in each dining room of my 2 flat
>apartment (Craftsman interior, brick Four Square
>exterior) building built in 1914. Wood species is
>furniture “grade”, fine grained (old growth!) 5/4 red
>oak. Construction/assembly is dovetailed drawers with
>door frames rabbeted & doweled. Glass in doors and
>mirrors are beveled. Interior rear walls is beaded oak
>and shelves red oak planks.
>
>From what info I can dig up this size was
>“discontinued” in the late 1940’s per a description in
>my father’s 14th Edition, 1951 publish date,
>Machinery’s Handbook. MH indicated this size/pitch was
>also used in gunsmithing.
>
>I have verified the thread pitch with a pitch guage
>and shaft diameter with a calipers. My efforts were
>double checked by a local machine shop.
>
>The machine shop offered to re-tap with a 8-32
>bottoming tap so I could substitute a “modern” screw.
>As a bit of a purist, I’d like to stay with the
>current 8-24 screws. There are a total of 35 screws.
>
>What I’m looking for is 50 screws and 10 nuts in 8-24
>pitch. Screws could be longer than 3/4”, using a nut
>on the longer shaft and cutting down to the proper
>length, then “restoring” the threads by unscrewing the
>nut. Extra screws & nuts would be saved for future use.
[> Subject: Re: Machine Screws


Author:
Mike
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 01:17:25 12/17/15 Thu

Try a source of British Standard Whitworth bolts.

The thread diameter of a #8 is either 0.1600 or
0.1640 (depending on which reference you read).
One of the Whitworth sizes is 0.1608, and is
available in a 24 threads per inch.

As an alternate, Travers Tool lists 8-24
taps and dies in its catalog (under "special
thread" category). MSC has taps, but not dies.

Might try info@boltdepot.com or 866-337-9888

Mike
[> Subject: Re: Machine Screws (update, and SUCCESS)


Author:
Mike
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:01:53 12/18/15 Fri

I'd be willing to bet that the drawer pulls/knobs you have were manufactured in England and have British Whitworth thread metal inserts.

The US #8 screw diameter is either 0.160 or 0.162 inch depending on which book you read. The Whitworth 3/16" size is based on a body diameter of 0.1608 at 24 threads per inch. The Whitworth 7/32" size is based on a diameter of 0.1654 inch also at 24 TPI, but that's a little large for 0.160......

A good start would be to call British Tools & Fasteners supply at 315-946-9400, or check out their web site at
http://britishfasteners.com (but the web site doesn't have everything, call them).
A quick look at their web site using a search for 3/16
(http://britishfasteners.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=3%2F16)
finds a variety of 3/16-24 Whitworth screws in a number of heads, lengths and materials.
I'd buy one each of a 3/16-24 screw and a 7/32-24 screw and see which is a better fit for your drawer pulls.

None of the screws I found on the web site have shoulders, you may need to add a washer under the screw head as a substitute.

Note that Whitworth sizes are different than US sizes. In the US system the number stamped on the wrench or socket is the measurement across the flats of the hexagonal bolt head or nut. Whitworth wrench sizes indicate the diameter of the threaded part of the bolt, i.e., a wrench required for a 1/4 Whitworth bolt will have "1/4W" stamped on it.

Another note - some of the screws that British Fasteners sells have "Posidrive" heads. These look like Phillips heads, but from experience I can say that a Phillips screwdriver will work in a Posidrive head, but with any amount of torque it will twist out and damage the head.
If you purchase Posidrive screws PLEASE acquire a Posidrive screwdriver to go with them.

I've run into a lot of Posidrive damage in my volunteer work with Red Cross two way radios - Posidrive was used extensively in the manufacturers automated assembly (that's what it was developed for), and during the service life the local radio techs use Phillips head tools in their bench repair - the fasteners look like Phillips, a Phillips screwdriver fits, so they use it.
Then 10 to 15 to 20 years later the Red Cross inherits the decommissioned radios and our group gets to bring them back to life for Red Cross volunteers to use, and I get to replace a lot of damaged fasteners.


As far as finding actual US size 8 fasteners at 24 threads per inch....

I called the local "big three" industrial suppliers in the USA (Grainger, McMaster Carr and MSC Supply - also known as MSC Industrial or MSC Direct) and also a couple of local specialty suppliers... a gunsmiths supply, and a aircraft supply. No luck anywhere for 8-24 screws or bolts (any head style), or threaded rod (all-thread).

If you can't find the actual screw you need, there is another option, but it will require a bit of work...

I did find 8-24 taps and dies however... Ababa Bolt in El Cajon (south of Can Diego, California) at 619-440-1781 (ask for Yon Rasmussen) claims to have both taps and dies available in US size 8-24...
The tap is part number A1S-121-00824 at $17.83 each, and the die is part number A1S-100-00824 at $28.33 each.

So if you get a die and some rod stock then you can make your own allthread, then cut it to length, weld a 1/4 inch piece of hex stock and a washer to one end of each piece, insert the thread area in the hole from the back side, then screw the knob onto it. The piece of hex stock is your bolt head.

Yes, making your own is a lot of work, and I think your best bet is to pursue purchasing some Whitworth screws.
[> Subject: Re: Machine Screws


Author:
Andy Haworth
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:55:35 12/21/15 Mon

Could be worth a look on the EBay UK site,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=whitworth+bolts&LH_BIN=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xwhitworth+bolts+3%2F16+x+3%2F4.TRS0&_nkw=whitworth+bolts+3%2F16+x+3%2F4&_sacat=0


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