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Subject: Back up and running


Author:
Wes
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 20:27:25 02/09/14 Sun

I think I have finally got the new computer tweaked enough to be able to use it. There are still a few bugs to work out but I'm getting them chased down.

It feels very good to be able to work from home again, rather than have to upload posts at weird times from the office or nudge my son-in-law off his computer for a few minutes. He's a computer science major and that is not easy to do.

Also, I'll be able to answer e-mails without having to hunt and peck on the tablet.

This whole thing has been a pain in the neck and has taken much longer than it had any right to. Now maybe I can think about writing again.

-- Wes

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Leo Kerr
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:41:32 02/09/14 Sun

New computers take forever to get really.. comfortable. By the time you're used to all of the things that weren't supposed to change, well, that's about time to replace it again, right?
[> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
K Pelle aka dotB
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 21:04:59 02/09/14 Sun

I know exactly what you're talking about, and since I write a fair bit having a computer die in the midst of a chapter is a real pain in the butt, especially if it fries the hard drive. So the last time I had a computer fizzle on me, I decided to try something new. I bought two computers and set them up on a KVM switch.

My 'online' computer is on standby almost all the time and is only loaded with an operating system, a virus checker, a search engine and a few essential add ons. When I switch to it, the computer comes live and I can do my internet searches, uploads or downloads, but when I switch away, it goes to 'sleep' and is effectively offline. As well as that, every time I switch to the 'hot' computer, the virus checker automatically updates etc.

My 'offline' computer is NEVER connected to the internet and has three separate disk drives - one for all the programs I use, one for all my writing and other tasks and a third that does an automatic backup of my work on an hourly basis. Not only that, but I do a weekly backup of my work to USB thumb-drives once a week and I use two of those alternately. Once a month I take copy on a third thumb drive and drop into my bank and put it in my safety deposit box.

Sure it's a belt and suspenders setup, and I admit I'm a nut about it, but then I've lost complete outlines, chapters and even nearly completed novels in the past, so "Once bit, twice shy."

kp
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Leo Kerr
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 21:12:32 02/10/14 Mon

Be careful of the flash drives.. especially if they're FAT32 drives (and especially if they're older FAT32.) I've had a couple of those go bad, largely because they were old enough they weren't able to move things around -- like the File Allocation Table itself. (More modern drives can move them.) 'cause that table gets written to more than anything.

Archiving in the digital era is a major PITA (if you'll excuse the mildly obscene acronym there.) In some ways, computers do make things easier, but data preservation is.. not. Although the "work" computer being never connected to the network is a good idea. Especially if you are willing to go to that level of bother!
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Mike
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 04:13:07 02/11/14 Tue

>Be careful of the flash drives.. especially if they're
>FAT32 drives (and especially if they're older FAT32.)
>I've had a couple of those go bad, largely because
>they were old enough they weren't able to move things
>around -- like the File Allocation Table itself. (More
>modern drives can move them.) 'cause that table gets
>written to more than anything.

I totally agree. One of the hats I wear is "desktop, laptop and network support". I carry two 16GB flash drives in my pocket, plus three more in my tool bag. One is formatted to boot Windows 7, another to boot Hiren's latest system recovery package. I've had several flash drives die on me with ZERO warning. One day the drive is just fine, the next day it's a doorstop (and not a very good one). The problem is that the directory space and file allocation table space on the flash drive get hundreds if not thousands of write cycles and the flash memory literally wears out early (compared to the file storage space). And the flash drive chips are made to a price standard, and not to a level of quality standard, so if a questionable memory chip passes final inspection it ships.

In the situation and backup rotation discussed in the previous messages I'd do one of three things: (1) double up on the back up and use TWO flash drives from different manufacturers and different ages instead of one. Just make the same backup twice. If one drive becomes a doorstop one day just throw it away and use the other, and buy a new one to take the place of the dead one.

Or... (2) Use a small hard drive - one of those 2.5 inch laptop drives in a USB-connected hard case would be ideal. Hard drives don't have the finite number of write cycles that flash drives do. The current retail sizes on Amazon and BestBuy web sites are 1/2 and 1 TB, so the new-in-box old-stock 120 to 160 gig ones on ebay should be cheap.

Or (3) use a combination of a flash drive and a hard drive.

Lastly, don't buy no-name flash drives from China on ebay. One co-worker got a Real Good Deal on 32 GB drives. He backed up 30 GB of stuff on one. Fortunately the backup program did a verify step where it reads the data back and compares it to the original. When he read it back 90% of the files were empty. Turns out that they were 1gb drives that had been hacked to identify themselves as 32 gb drives.

Mike
[> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Leo Kerr
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 19:59:23 02/11/14 Tue

Hey, Mike,

instead of, say, 2½" mechanical hard drives, what's your experience with, say, the 250GB SSDs?

As for flash drives making not very good doorstops, it's just, which door? If it's a low-clearance door with industrial carpet underneath, they work pretty well.
[> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Skip
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:42:04 02/11/14 Tue

Is this why the Photo Post archive is running behind?
[> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Joe Williams
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 21:56:18 02/11/14 Tue

>Hey, Mike,
>
>instead of, say, 2½" mechanical hard drives, what's
>your experience with, say, the 250GB SSDs?
>
Internally, SSDs use much the same type of NAND flash memory that the thumb drives do (there might be small differences), and have all the same limitations in that respect.

In an ideal setup, I wouldn't use them for data storage (or even swap space) but for OS and program installation only to limit the write cycles.

JW
[> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Mike
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:13:16 02/13/14 Thu

>Hey, Mike,
>
>instead of, say, 2.5" mechanical hard drives, what's
>your experience with, say, the 250GB SSDs?

I've had limited experience with them. The manufacturers claim that the technology is different than with USB flash drives. That may be marketing-speak, or it may be true.

I work part-time with a company that has a number of clients all over southern California, all with different attitudes about new technology.

As an example, two clients collectively run a half-dozen nursing homes / convalescent hospitals. Another client runs a storefront internet cafe. Another client has a couple of mom-n-pop fast food places. Other clients are accountants, or dentists, or writers. In the case of the nursing homes the facility owners are super conservative - it's only been in the last few months that they had us add wireless internet to the facilities so that the residents ("don't call them paitients") and their families could use iPads, laptops, etc. to surf the net and get email and view photos of the grandkids. Recently at one facility we did a rollout of Win7 to replace the WinXP (17 machines). Since we were going to lay hands on each box in the facility we offered to update the computers with more RAM, with newer hard drives, or even SSDs but the owner commented that his grandkid had to replace an Intel SSD in the gaming machine at home after only 6 months. Yes, it was a 5 year warranty drive and under warranty but "I don't think they are ready for prime time yet".

On the other hand, at the interent cafe they've replaced most of the boot & swap drives with Intel SSDs (5 year warranty) and had "only" 3 (out of 29) die in the first year. That's a 10% failure rate under warranty. They won't even THINK of using them in the back ofice machines.

They cafe is a little different. The gaming room machines are all identical. If the boot drive gets messed up (virus, trojan, etc) they don't bother to salvage it - they just wipe the drive and drop a "canned" image on it with a program called Ghost. If they lose a SSD it is not a real problem - they just swap it and Ghost it. The image is one that was made a while back from a new machine that has all the standard programs on it, and no more, and is commonly referred to as the "golden master" drive. The restoration is not difficult, and from the time they start the copy until the dead machine is up and running is about 15 minutes (when I timed it both the source and destination were IDE/ATA mechnical drives, SATA would be faster and SSD would be faster yet).

Personally, I have an older laptop - a IBM T40 - that I'm using to learn Linux. I'd love to find a IDE/ATA SSD that woudl fit in it but IDE/ATA SSDs seem to be few and far between and expensive for a spare machine that I have less than $100 in.

>As for flash drives making not very good doorstops,
>it's just, which door? If it's a low-clearance door
>with industrial carpet underneath, they work pretty
>well.

The ones that my co-worker bought (and got screwed on) looked like this ebay item: 201036246403 - not very big.
Something like item 331067056984 would work as you described. But something like item 271301903808 would not work at all.

Mike
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
K Pelle aka dotB
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:28:42 02/14/14 Fri

I have a young friend who is into gaming on the computer and he told me he has gone through THREE SSDs in just over a year.
It seems that in gaming the drives are written to so often that they simply burn out.
That's why I stick to USB thumbdrives (or flashdrives, if that's what you want to call them.) Still, I do stick to well known brands and I change them out often. I only write to them a couple dozen or so times before they are wiped using a multiple wipe/rewrite/wipe program. Then the 'clean' drives are donated to a local highschool drama club to be given to their aspiring actors loaded with copies of their parts in the present scripts. (It just feels better than scrapping the darn things because I have enough doorstops.)

kp

kp
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Doug
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:29:51 02/17/14 Mon

Biggest problem with any storage media - hard drive or
SSD - is brown outs and surges. I had a friend who
lived in cottage country in Manitoba a number of years
ago who bought a new computer and promptly went through
3 hard drives in 3 weeks under warranty. A buddy and I
convinced him to put an uninterrupted power supply on
the computer - a battery backup - he never lost another
hard drive. We don't have the best record for keeping electronics alive in Saskatchewan - I have fried more dishwashers, answering machines etc due to brown outs and surges than you can imagine. But I have only lost one hard drive in 20 years - I have co-workers who continually lose them. I also protect my other important electronics with them. Anyone who runs a computer that doesn't protect their investment with one is asking for trouble.
[> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Ian
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:26:56 02/18/14 Tue


>Also, I'll be able to answer e-mails without having to
>hunt and peck on the tablet.

I've just bought a keyboard to plug in to my tablet. The keyboard is built in to a tablet case and has a micro-USB cable. Initial impression is it is worth the extra space and weight to carry around because of the much lower frustration answering emails and indeed any other time I need a keyboard. I thought about a Bluetooth keyboard but decided I preferred a cable attachment.

Ian
[> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Wes
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10:00:52 02/19/14 Wed

My daughter has one of those but it's still too small for my fat fingers. However, I guess sooner or later we're going to have to learn to live with it.

-- Wes



>>Also, I'll be able to answer e-mails without having to
>>hunt and peck on the tablet.
>
>I've just bought a keyboard to plug in to my tablet.
>The keyboard is built in to a tablet case and has a
>micro-USB cable. Initial impression is it is worth the
>extra space and weight to carry around because of the
>much lower frustration answering emails and indeed any
>other time I need a keyboard. I thought about a
>Bluetooth keyboard but decided I preferred a cable
>attachment.
>
>Ian
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Mike
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:01:09 02/19/14 Wed

An acquaintance found a bluetooth gimmick that attaches
to a full size USB keyboard and allows his tablet to
connect to it. Yes, it's not portable but it makes things simple when you are able to use a full size keyboard. I'll try and get some details. What tablet do you have?

>My daughter has one of those but it's still too small
>for my fat fingers. However, I guess sooner or later
>we're going to have to learn to live with it.
>
>-- Wes
>
>
>
>>>Also, I'll be able to answer e-mails without having
>to
>>>hunt and peck on the tablet.
>>
>>I've just bought a keyboard to plug in to my tablet.
>>The keyboard is built in to a tablet case and has a
>>micro-USB cable. Initial impression is it is worth the
>>extra space and weight to carry around because of the
>>much lower frustration answering emails and indeed any
>>other time I need a keyboard. I thought about a
>>Bluetooth keyboard but decided I preferred a cable
>>attachment.
>>
>>Ian
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Back up and running


Author:
Ian
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 23:41:09 02/19/14 Wed

>My daughter has one of those but it's still too small
>for my fat fingers. However, I guess sooner or later
>we're going to have to learn to live with it.

If the fingers are the problem and not the bloody On Screen Keyboard, I suggest trying a Capacitance Pen/Stylus, one with a soft spongy 'point', not a flat hard end. I've tried both and the soft sort is IMHO better.

Ian


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