oops ... I see two squares trying to force themselves into a "circle" called "love" and "family". I don't see anything but the conclusion of what SHOULD be some kind of journey THROUGH something - but, nope. It's "we belong together" ... "he LOVES me" ... "she WANTS me" ... "we want each other." There is nothing explaining how they got from contempt ("sexually repressed psychopath" and "pathetic clingy ex-wife") to ... <i>THIS</i>. -- At The Bayberry

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, [5], 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 17:09:09 03/17/01 Sat
Author: Cabbie Esq
Subject:

oops ... I see two squares trying to force themselves into a "circle" called "love" and "family". I don't see anything but the conclusion of what SHOULD be some kind of journey THROUGH something - but, nope. It's "we belong together" ... "he LOVES me" ... "she WANTS me" ... "we want each other." There is nothing explaining how they got from contempt ("sexually repressed psychopath" and "pathetic clingy ex-wife") to ... THIS.
In reply to: Cabbie Esq 's message, "ITA Pilar and Elisa. And Elisa ... sigh ... what a depressing thought - but I think you're right. The pattern of the B blaming Todd for HER crap is classic BnT which aggravates me. I blame the writers for showing this and not "dealing with it," for making Todd blind to it. People keep talking about the BnT "journey" to each other - but I don't see any such thing. I only see two squares trying to fit into the It's all about conclusion ..." on 17:00:06 03/17/01 Sat

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

..(cont.) There is nothing explaining why Todd is willing to accept someone who really doesn't care about HIM - who uses him - who never even asks him about HIM. I haven't heard her ONCE ask, "Where've you been, Todd, all this time? What's going on with YOU? Why are you acting SO damn out of character? (VBG)" But really - even the night of the Peculiar, did Blair ask Todd, "Was it good for you too?" I don't remember - and I don't think she did. Basically, she could care less. (NT) -- Cabbie Esq, 17:13:19 03/17/01 Sat

Yes, Todd being blind to it is what is making it so awful for me. If Todd would just tell her that if she wants him to trust her she has to at least be sorry when she does bad things to him, and sincerely do her best not to do it again. But he doesn't ask that. He doesn't even mention it. So we're forced to watch her betray Todd, then his reaction, then his making amends for his reaction, when she's not willing to make amends for her own actions that caused the whole mess to begin with. (NT) -- Elisa, 17:31:12 03/17/01 Sat

I'm clueless as to why anyone who loves Todd would want him stuck in this endless cycle with Blair. This is clearly a tragic story about a man who is an abuse sucker and a woman who loves to dish it out. Blair hands out all the guilt and Todd takes it all inside. There are moments where Todd gets fed up, and yes, he reacts in negative ways, but I'll take that anytime over what always happens next, pushing aside Blair's betrayal, trying to make amends for his reaction to it, and taking her back. (NT) -- Elisa, 17:46:43 03/17/01 Sat
- Cabbie, about the journey, I could comprehend people rooting for this couple if they were working through these behaviors, breaking this cycle, if Blair finally realized that it's her actions that always lead to Todd's destructive reactions, but that's not what I'm seeing out there. The people who are enjoying this couple seem to be enjoying them AS IS. I don't understand why anyone who loves Todd would enjoy watching someone treat him like crap and then put all the blame on him. Mind boggling. (NT) -- Elisa, 18:02:41 03/17/01 Sat
  - Sorry I went off on a huge rant today, and called Todd an abuse sucker, gulp, but that's how I feel when I watch him let Blair walk all over him. Hell No week was so nice, hope that he'd finally had it with her crap, but no, they had to give her a loophole, and since they're focusing in only on the one thing she didn't do, Todd's lost his mind again and is forgetting all the stuff she did do. (NT) -- Elisa, 18:11:24 03/17/01 Sat
    - Don't be sorry, Elisa, for calling a spade a spade, after all Malone set up Blair as �bad� one in original T&B relationship to "victimize" Todd as means to further redeem him. Malone wrote Blair repeatedly taking advantage of a VERY vulnerable Todd, who �sucked� up HER abuse until he snapped & retaliated. (NT) -- Pilar, 09:55:32 03/18/01 Sun
      - ITA, it�s a vicious cycle but it goes from Max to Blair to Todd. Max emotionally abuses Blair, leaves her self-esteem in tatters but Max refuses in turn to be Blair�s victim, no matter how hard she tries to HURT him back, including attempted murder, she can�t seem to DAMAGE Max so she seeks out someone she CAN hurt, Todd. (NT) -- Pilar, 10:07:10 03/18/01 Sun
      - In EACH BnT story, Todd�s self-esteem takes a major beating, damaging him further but why is that? Because a person typically becomes an abuser out of a desperate NEED to boost their own poor self-esteem by tearing down another�s! Blair derides Todd, places ALL blame for their failed relationships on him/his problems b/c she can�t look in the mirror & admit her own litany of faults� that would be admitting her image of herself is probably as bad as Todd�s of himself. (NT) -- Pilar, 10:20:02 03/18/01 Sun
        Pilar, you said that all so well. And you're so right about both Blair/Max and Blair/Todd. Max does treat Blair badly, affair with Skye under her nose for example, Blair shoots him, and what happened? Didn't seem to phase Max at all. So she moves to Todd, treats him badly, after his initial angry reaction she ends up convincing him it was all his fault, feels horrible inside, tries to make it up to her, and so on. It's painful for me to watch, and with no hope in sight, that's why I stopped. (NT) -- Elisa, 14:44:58 03/18/01 Sun
        I meant to say above that HE feels horrible inside. He falls back into the idea that he's a monster that can't have love and destroys every chance at it. Blair doesn't do that, no guilt at all that playing with Max and letting him in that night destroyed her chance at love with Todd. She never warns men not to get involved with her for fear that they'll end up hurt, like Todd did with T�a, and she's the one who's tried to kill two husbands. No, Todd and Blair are not much alike at all. (NT) -- Elisa, 14:58:07 03/18/01 Sun
  - Elisa, bringing thread out since it was getting hard to read... yes, repeatedly Blair attempts & fails to strike back at Max. He's like Teflon & it drives her nuts, literally. Max's self-esteem just never submits to her abuse like Todd's does. You know Blair always needed for Todd to win "most pathetic contest" to boost her own dreadfully low self-esteem. She's in deep denial of her problems & what a bad person she truly has become. At least, Todd is capable of acknowledging he's very damaged. (NT) -- Pilar, 17:17:50 03/18/01 Sun
    - Guilt appears to be a foreign concept to BOTH B&M now. Their wargames provide "thrills" vs deep remorse/anguish. Max has barely shown a lick of feeling for hurting Renee so deeply... and Blair doesn't bat an eyelash at almost murdering the husband she claimed to love. All is fair in love & war was invented for B&M's twisted characters. I don't know what happened to Max I enjoyed w/Luna, his soul is running on empty as is Blair's, really ugly, unlikeable creatures they've become. (NT) -- Pilar, 17:28:47 03/18/01 Sun
    - Sad part is Todd is being lumped w/two terrible shallow excuses for characters rather than given a story worthy of his own deeper/damaged psyche. He's the juicy meat, sandwiched between two shallow slices of rotten bread that wrecks entire taste if you get my drift. The meat gets tainted by rotten outside. (NT) -- Pilar, 17:33:23 03/18/01 Sun