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Date Posted: 18:40:09 05/08/10 Sat
Author: Promise
Subject: Okay, here goes...my first submission for your perusal.

Hi, this is something I've been working on for quite a while now (well over a year) as I've done a lot of research (which is still on-going) before writing anything, although I did have in mind, and jotted down, a rough outline at the beginning of all this.

What I have here is almost 2,500 words long. It is not a complete work, but the first of what I have written towards a rather ambitious novel--I am endeavoring to weave together the story of the Nibelunglied and the Volsunga Saga with several fairy tales ("Sleeping Beauty" and "Snow White" for sure, possibly incorporating "Rapunzel" and/or "Allerleirauh" as well), while keeping as historically accurate as possible (hence, all the research).

I'm not entirely sure if this is the beginning of the book, or not, but this is where I have started writing. I *think* I am going to be composing this as Diana Gabaldon does, in bits and pieces and then put it all back together.

I *hope* the time and place are apparent in the reading.

Both Soft and Hard crits are welcome.

Oh, this does contain some strong language. I'm not sure about the board policy on that, so for now in the posts, those words will just have the first letter, followed by dashes, as I don't want to offend anyone.

Thank you!

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[> Re: Okay, here goes...my first submission for your perusal. -- Promise, 18:48:27 05/08/10 Sat

Gebicar’s thoughts drifted like the motes lit by the shaft of late-afternoon sunlight that broke through the dense forest canopy above as his feet carried him across the rough terrain, his arms reaching automatically to move aside brush, branch and bramble. His body was long accustomed to the rigors and dangers of the harsh terrain, and, outwardly, his attention appeared to be fully occupied by his environment, but his deeper mind was left unencumbered. Although he’d been hardened to quickly covering long distances afoot as a young boy, he’d never gotten truly comfortable with the mindless tediousness that a journey of any length always entailed. The impatient boy had grown into a man of swift decision and immediate action, curtailed only by the limits imposed on him by man—and he frequently stretched those to their breaking point and beyond. And yet his men followed him unwaiveringly—battle after battle, raid after raid—carving out their place in the land, marking this bit of earth as their own. First alongside his father, and now on his own, Gebicar was determined to widen and strengthen his people’s hold on this land to which his great-grandfather had brought them.

They were the Burgundars, and they were forcing the other tribes to make room for them in this rich land between the three waters. The cost had not been small, but there was glory awaiting those who fell in battle in the halls of Valhöll (or among the angels of heaven, if you were one of the new Christ-men). And while there was never actual peace between them, their relations with the Suebars to the West, the Rugiars and Gepidars to the North, the Gothars and Venedars to the East, and the Lugiars to the South, was largely one of trade. At least these peoples lived much as his own did, unlike that curious tribe, the Romars, whose people they occasionally encountered. He’d heard it told that their jarl claimed to be a god and ruler of the whole earth! The Romars, themselves, those that he’d met, seemed to be no more than men, though queer in dress, manner, and speech. He’d seen them fall, mortal as any other man and he’d seen they required food and drink and were susceptible to the evils of too much mead and the charms of woman, same as any other man. And besides, their small bands appeared too infrequently for them to be of much concern. The weather, the land itself and the other tribes around them, the ever present threat of starvation and disease, whatever it was the Norns chose to weave into the fabric of one’s life—those were the immediate concerns that lived at the edges of one’s consciousness.

In addition to defending against raiders from other tribes and leading raids into the lands of those same tribes, as he, and his band of warriors, made the circuit of the current borders of their lands, from the Wistla to the Odra, he secured not only their hold on the land, but the loyalty of his people, as they came to him with their problems and petitions, and he collected tallage and recruited new warriors. These were the duties of a jarl—in his person was justice and judgement. And yet there was one duty left undone. One that his father had wanted to see fulfilled before his death—which came quickly following a wound taken just three years ago in a raid against the Suebars—and which is mother reminded him constantly.

Not that he hadn’t sired a handful of bastards—any virile young warrior had at least a by-blow or two—but all but one of them (those he knew about anyway) hadn’t survived beyond a year or two and the one remaining was a sweet and pretty girl that he doted upon the few times he’d seen her. A son and heir is what he needed—many sons. He knew that lesson well—all his brothers, older and younger, having died before manhood or not long after. Life was hard. Children died. It was just the way of the world.
The early-autumn sun’s light began to fade. The air, already crisply cool, took on a sharper chill. At the bottom of a rise, near a rivulet, Gebicar came to a stop. Turning to his companions, “We’ll stop here awhile,” he announced, “I’ve a need to s---.”

“Shall I start a fire?” asked Eberhart.

“’Tis, nearing dark,” Búi observed. “Perhaps we should set up camp,”

“I’ve a mind to sleep indoors tonight, in a proper bed, with a proper bedfellow. How much further to your keep, Baldür?”

“In good light and fair weather at least a half day’s brisk walk. The path beyond this stream is mostly uphill, with many loose rocks.”

“Ah, well, I suppose I’ll have to settle for another night of rough sleep with your farts for company,” Gebicar called over his shoulder as he made his way into the brush.

The men laughed and began to unload their gear, talking and joking amongst themselves as they set about the making of a rough camp, refilling water skins, walking a few yards into the woods to s--- or p--- and bringing wood for the fire upon their return. The youngest men of the group quickly set about making a fire and getting water boiling, tossing into pots a few handfuls of grains, some dried fish and salt-pork, a bit of bitter greens gathered from the side of the road. Those lucky enough to capture small game along their day’s trek, set about skinning the carcasses and setting them to roast over the fire, spitted on sharpened sticks of green wood.


Later, they sat around the fire, passing around the skin of mead and picking their teeth with bones. The last of the pottage had been scraped from the cookpot and if every man was not filled to his satisfaction, they at least had something warm in their bellies, which was more than all folk could say at night. Tired from the day’s travel, but not yet ready to sleep, the conversations and jokes continued, punctuated by belches and farts and the occasional rasping sound followed by a hiss from the fire as a man coughed and spat into the flames. “Tell me, Baldür,” said Gebicar, “has your sister fairly grown into a woman, then? Answer me truthfully man, for I’ve pledge to you already that I would have her.”

“Truthfully, I cannot tell you,” Baldür replied. “I have not seen the girl myself in six years, since she was but a girl of 10 and you know well how they are at that age, all legs and arms and freckles.” At this all the men round chuckled. “She has been fostered with my uncle, who has two daughters of a similar age since the death of our mother. I’d wanted to bring her back to be a companion to my wife when I married, but I’m afraid my uncle has spoiled her and she would not leave her cousins.”

“Would not, ay? What kind of man, is he, your uncle, that he allows a maiden to disobey her brother?” Búi called from the other side of the fire, laughing and elbowing his neighbors.

“A good and kind man who has cared for his sister’s daughter as if she were his own, with no thought to recompense from his nephew,” Gebicar said, standing with one arm holding back Baldür, who had risen, knife and fist drawn, tensed to leap across the fire at Búi.

Careless of the anger steaming off of Baldür, “Even so, it’s a poor thing when a maiden is allowed her own way,“ Búi answered, turning from his neighbors to Gebicar, “and what if she says she will not be having you? As like to take a Valkyrie to your bed as an unwilling woman, as well you know. You’re like to be sleeping in your marriage bed alone.”

At this, Baldür slipped past Gebicar’s grip and launched himself upon Búi, knocking them both back into the darkness beyond the light of the fire. Grunts and blows and the crackling of leaves and snapping of twigs could be heard as the two men grappled, their efforts rolling them further into the underbrush. The other men turned back to the fire, exchanging stories of their own encounters with thorny women. “Don’t mind him,” Eberhart said, handing the skin of mead to Gebicar and clapping him upon the back, “You know he’s been bitter ever since his wife decided not to risk again the childbed and makes him sleep on the floor with the dogs. Besides,” he added, as Gebicar handed the skin back to him, “what maid wouldn’t want to be the wife of the Jarl?”


Morning crept upon the forest. Gebicar’s band of warriors woke to the sounds of the forest waking all around them. Men stumbled off lean against a tree and take their morning p---, others drank deeply from the skins, swishing the liquid around to dissolve the nighttime scum. Bread, cheese, and sausages were brought to hand as packs were loaded back up and the remains of the fire scuffed out. Baldür and Búi, keeping clear of one another, moved gingerly, cuts and bruises from their scuffle showing livid upon their faces, hands and arms. Búi’s tunic was cut through in several places and showed dark and stiff with dried blood. The left leg of Baldür’s leggings was rent and he wrapped a length of cord around it to hold it closed. Despite the ferocity of the conflict, they’d managed not to kill each other, for which Gebicar was very glad. Not only were both men good friends and two of his fiercest fighters, he didn’t want to have to waste time setting out by having to dig a grave. Their belongings gathered, the men set out, easily crossing the rivulet with a giant step, breaking their fast as they went. Too early for conversation or song, the band was silent except for the sound of footfalls on detritus and undergrowth, the occasional curse as a rock turned underfoot, and the farts and belches that accompany any group of men.

Not an hour had passed before the ground began to change and the men found themselves working steadily uphill. The grade was not steep and yet the going was slow, as Baldür had warned the night before, the ground was littered with large, loose stones. Fully warmed and awakened now by the effort of keeping pace, bits of quiet conversation floated back and forth amongst the men. Gebicar, however, remained silent, his mind occupied by his dreams from the night before. More troubled by Búi’s comments than he cared to admit, his dreams had been haunted. He’d gone repeatedly to his bridal bed, and each time there’d been a new horror waiting—a wolf, a bear, a troll—each one devouring him as he attempted to bed his fiendish bride. He’d awakened in the night, drenched in sweat and breathless. Fearful of the dreams returning, he’d relieved the man on watch and kept himself all the rest of the night.

Perhaps because of the dreams, or perhaps it was only the nervousness all bridegrooms feel, he was no longer in any hurry to arrive at Baldür’s village. He gave instructions to his men to hunt any large pray they came upon along the way, saying he wanted to arrive with a large gift of meats for the upcoming bridal feast, knowing full well the delay this would provide. He was relieved when, about mid-morning, the fresh spoor of a boar was spotted.

[add in here the hunt of the boar]


Late that night, the men approached the village, the boar strung between two stout poles, born on each end by three men. Exhausted, but their blood still up from the hunt, then men were eager for food, ale, song, and the bed of a soft woman, and they weren’t so particular about in which order these things came. Baldür instructed the men carrying the boar to hang it from the tree next to the storage hut, to keep the village dogs from the carcass, while he and Gebicar went to his own house.

She was on the floor, in the space cleared of rushes before the fire’s hearthstones. On her hands and knees, her naked breasts swinging as the man behind her bucked and thrust. Her face was obscured, her mouth filled with the c--- of the man before her, sliding back and forth along its length in rhythm with the pounding from her other end. The skin of all three was reddened with effort and excitement and glistened in the firelight. The men grunted and groaned. The woman moaned around her mouthful of flesh. There was wet sound of skin smacking and then a slurping, sucking sound as the woman drew the phallus from her mouth. Rocking furiously back into the man behind her she threw back her head and yelled, “Yes! Yes! Pound my c---!” Turning her head to the two stunned men in the doorway, her eyes heavy and unfocused with passion, she said “I’ve only the three holes, but I’ll f--- you two blind as soon as the two here are finished,” and turned back to working with her mouth.

Baldür burst forward, grabbing the girl by the hair, dragging her away from the two men, while at the same time, bashing each man in turn upside the head with a club of wood, knocking them cold. The girl was screaming and clawing at him. Gebicar stepped forward, grabbing hold of her wrists and twisting her arms behind her back. The girl stopped screaming and spat in Baldür’s face. Baldür slapped her hard, twice. Stunned, the girl was still for a moment. His eyes and veins bulging, his face and neck empurpled, and his breathing heavy with rage, he grabbed the girl by the chin, his fingers digging into her cheeks and made her look him in the eye.

At this moment, another woman, this one modestly dressed and heavy with pregnancy appeared in the doorway, accompanied by a three year old girl, whom she quickly shoved behind her skirts. “Baldür! What-” Before she could say another word, the naked girl went rigid with shock. Without letting go of the girl’s face, Baldür turned to Gebicar and said, between clenched teeth, “Gebicar, this is my wife, Amalasuintha,” nodding his head towards the door, “and our daughter, Blodueyn, and this” turning his head back to glare at the girl between them, “is my sister, Dagmær.”

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[> [> Re: Okay, here goes...my first submission for your perusal. -- debikm, 20:06:23 05/08/10 Sat

>Gebicar’s thoughts drifted like the motes lit by the
>shaft of late-afternoon sunlight that broke through
>the dense forest canopy above as his feet carried him
>across the rough terrain, his arms reaching
>automatically to move aside brush, branch and bramble.
>His body was long accustomed to the rigors and dangers
>of the harsh terrain, and, outwardly, his attention
>appeared to be fully occupied by his environment, but
>his deeper mind was left unencumbered. Although he’d
>been hardened to quickly covering long distances afoot
>as a young boy, he’d never gotten truly comfortable
>with the mindless tediousness that a journey of any
>length always entailed. The impatient boy had grown
>into a man of swift decision and immediate action,
>curtailed only by the limits imposed on him by man—and
>he frequently stretched those to their breaking point
>and beyond. First impressions: Very eloquent imagery, though some of your sentances are a bit long. Sill, I'm follwing along easily. Here, I'm not quite sure what you meant by man. Mankind in general, particular men? If mankind, does this imply he is more than mere man? Intriguing.
And yet his men followed him
>unwaiveringly Can make this just unwavering and I'm NOT the adverb Nazi here ;-) *ducking and running*—battle after battle, raid after
>raid—carving out their place in the land, marking this
>bit of earth as their own. First alongside his father,
>and now on his own, Gebicar was determined to widen
>and strengthen his people’s hold on this land to which
>his great-grandfather had brought them.
>
>They were the Burgundars, and they were forcing the
>other tribes to make room for them in this rich land
>between the three waters. The cost had not been small,
>but there was glory awaiting those who fell in battle
>in the halls of Valhöll (or among the angels of
>heaven, if you were one of the new Christ-men).Nice commentary on changing time, and maybe a bit of foreboding? And
>while there was never actual peace between them, their
>relations with the Suebars to the West, the Rugiars
>and Gepidars to the North, the Gothars and Venedars to
>the East, and the Lugiars to the South, was largely
>one of trade. At least these peoples lived much as his
>own did, unlike that curious tribe, the Romars, whose
>people they occasionally encountered. He’d heard it
>told that their jarl claimed to be a god and ruler of
>the whole earth! Silly Romars! The Romars, themselves, those that
>he’d met, seemed to be no more than men, though queer
>in dress, manner, and speech. He’d seen them fall,
>mortal as any other man and he’d seen they required
>food and drink and were susceptible to the evils of
>too much mead and the charms of woman, same as any
>other man. And besides, their small bands appeared too
>infrequently for them to be of much concern. The
>weather, the land itself and the other tribes around
>them, the ever present threat of starvation and
>disease, whatever it was the Norns chose to weave into
>the fabric of one’s life—those were the immediate
>concerns that lived at the edges of one’s
>consciousness.
>
>In addition to defending against raiders from other
>tribes and leading raids into the lands of those same
>tribes, as he, and his band of warriors, made the
>circuit of the current borders of their lands, from
>the Wistla to the Odra, he secured not only their hold
>on the land, but the loyalty of his people, as they
>came to him with their problems and petitions, and he
>collected tallage and recruited new warriors. Long sentance! And the word 'land'/lands' was used three times, which rhymes with 'band'. It started getting a bit sing-song. These
>were the duties of a jarl—in his person was justice
>and judgement. And yet there was one duty left undone.
>One that his father had wanted to see fulfilled before
>his death—which came quickly following a wound taken
>just three years ago in a raid against the Suebars—and
>which is'his"? mother reminded him constantly.
>
>Not that he hadn’t sired a handful of bastards—any
>virile young warrior had at least a by-blow or two—but
>all but one of them (those he knew about anyway)
>hadn’t survived beyond a year or two and the one
>remaining was a sweet and pretty girl that he doted
>upon the few times he’d seen her. A son and heir is
>what he needed—many sons. He knew that lesson well—all
>his brothers, older and younger, having died before
>manhood or not long after. Life was hard. Children
>died. It was just You can drop 'just' I think, to make a tighter sentance. the way of the world.
>The early-autumn sun’s light began to fade. The air,
>already crisply cool, took on a sharper chill. At the
>bottom of a rise, near a rivulet, Gebicar came to a
>stop. Turning to his companions, “We’ll stop here
>awhile,” he announced, “I’ve a need to s---.”
No worries about language here. My excerpts frequently have far worse and we've even had whole threads of nothing but sex scenes. So, don't feel you have to censor yourself. Of course, a really racy scene could have a NSFW or little eyes warning.
>“Shall I start a fire?” asked Eberhart. >
>“’Tis, nearing dark,” Búi observed. “Perhaps we should
>set up camp,”
>
>“I’ve a mind to sleep indoors tonight, in a proper
>bed, with a proper bedfellow. How much further to your
>keep, Baldür?”
>
>“In good light and fair weather at least a half day’s
>brisk walk. The path beyond this stream is mostly
>uphill, with many loose rocks.”
>
>“Ah, well, I suppose I’ll have to settle for another
>night of rough sleep with your farts for company,”
>Gebicar called over his shoulder as he made his way
>into the brush.
>
>The men laughed and began to unload their gear,
>talking and joking amongst themselves as they set
>about the making of a rough camp, refilling water
>skins, walking a few yards into the woods to s--- or
>p--- and bringing wood for the fire upon their return.
>The youngest men of the group quickly set about making
>a fire and getting water boiling, tossing into pots a
>few handfuls of grains, some dried fish and salt-pork,
>a bit of bitter greens gathered from the side of the
>road. Those lucky enough to capture small game along
>their day’s trek, set about skinning the carcasses and
>setting them to roast over the fire, spitted on
>sharpened sticks of green wood.
>
>
>Later, they sat around the fire, passing around the
>skin of mead and picking their teeth with bones. The
>last of the pottage had been scraped from the cookpot
>and if every man was not filled to his satisfaction,
>they at least had something warm in their bellies,
>which was more than all 'many', perhaps? Or does everyone go to bed hungry? folk could say at night. Tired
>from the day’s travel, but not yet ready to sleep, the
>conversations and jokes continued, punctuated by
>belches and farts and the occasional rasping sound
>followed by a hiss from the fire as a man coughed and
>spat into the flames. “Tell me, Baldür,” said Gebicar,
>“has your sister fairly grown into a woman, then?
>Answer me truthfully man, for I’ve pledge 'pledged'? to you
>already that I would have her.”
>
>“Truthfully, I cannot tell you,” Baldür replied. “I
>have not seen the girl myself in six years, since she
>was but a girl of 10 and you know well how they are at
>that age, all legs and arms and freckles.” At this all
>the men round chuckled. “She has been fostered with my
>uncle, who has two daughters of a similar age since
>the death of our mother. I’d wanted to bring her back
>to be a companion to my wife when I married, but I’m
>afraid my uncle has spoiled her and she would not
>leave her cousins.”
>
>“Would not, ay? What kind of man, is he, your uncle,
>that he allows a maiden to disobey her brother?” Búi
>called from the other side of the fire, laughing and
>elbowing his neighbors.
>
>“A good and kind man who has cared for his sister’s
>daughter as if she were his own, with no thought to
>recompense from his nephew,” Gebicar said, standing
>with one arm holding back Baldür, who had risen, knife
>and fist drawn, tensed to leap across the fire at Búi.
>
>Careless of the anger steaming off of Baldür,Maybe move "Bui answered" to here, and remove it from below. It's a bit choppy as it stands. “Even
>so, it’s a poor thing when a maiden is allowed her own
>way,“ Búi answered, turning from his neighbors to
>Gebicar, “and what if she says she will not be having
>you? As like to take a Valkyrie to your bed as an
>unwilling woman, as well you know. You’re like to be
>sleeping in your marriage bed alone.”
>
>At this, Baldür slipped past Gebicar’s grip and
>launched himself upon Búi, knocking them both back
>into the darkness beyond the light of the fire. Grunts
>and blows and the crackling of leaves and snapping of
>twigs could be heard as the two men grappled, their
>efforts rolling them further into the underbrush. The
>other men turned back to the fire, exchanging stories
>of their own encounters with thorny women. “Don’t
>mind him,” Eberhart said, handing the skin of mead to
>Gebicar and clapping him upon the back, “You know he’s
>been bitter ever since his wife decided not to risk
>again the childbed and makes him sleep on the floor
>with the dogs. Besides,” he added, as Gebicar handed
>the skin back to him, “what maid wouldn’t want to be
>the wife of the Jarl?”
Indeed?
>
>Morning crept upon the forest. Gebicar’s band of
>warriors woke to the sounds of the forest waking all
>around them. Men stumbled off lean against a tree and
>take their morning p---, others drank deeply from the
>skins, swishing the liquid around to dissolve the
>nighttime scum. Bread, cheese, and sausages were
>brought to hand as packs were loaded back up and the
>remains of the fire scuffed out. Baldür and Búi,
>keeping clear of one another, moved gingerly, cuts and
>bruises from their scuffle showing livid upon their
>faces, hands and arms. Búi’s tunic was cut through in
>several places and showed dark and stiff with dried
>blood. The left leg of Baldür’s leggings was rent and
>he wrapped a length of cord around it to hold it
>closed. Despite the ferocity of the conflict, they’d
>managed not to kill each other, for which Gebicar was
>very glad. Not only were both men good friends and two
>of his fiercest fighters, he didn’t want to have to
>waste time setting out by having to dig a grave. Their
>belongings gathered, the men set out, easily crossing
>the rivulet with a giant step, breaking their fast as
>they went. Too early for conversation or song, the
>band was silent except for the sound of footfalls on
>detritus and undergrowth, the occasional curse as a
>rock turned underfoot, and the farts and belches that
>accompany any group of men.
>
>Not an hour had passed before the ground began to
>change and the men found themselves working steadily
>uphill. The grade was not steep and yet the going was
>slow, as Baldür had warned the night before, the
>ground was littered with large, loose stones. Fully
>warmed and awakened now by the effort of keeping pace,
>bits of quiet conversation floated back and forth
>amongst the men. Gebicar, however, remained silent,
>his mind occupied by his dreams from the night before.
>More troubled by Búi’s comments than he cared to
>admit, his dreams had been haunted. He’d gone
>repeatedly to his bridal bed, and each time there’d
>been a new horror waiting—a wolf, a bear, a troll—each
>one devouring him as he attempted to bed his fiendish
>bride. Wow, brave man, even in a dream, or hard-up;-) He’d awakened in the night, drenched in sweat
>and breathless. Fearful of the dreams returning, he’d
>relieved the man on watch and kept himself What? Awake? Kept the watch himself? all the
>rest of the night.
>
>Perhaps because of the dreams, or perhaps it was only
>the nervousness all bridegrooms feel, he was no longer
>in any hurry to arrive at Baldür’s village. He gave
>instructions to his men to hunt any large pray they
>came upon along the way, saying he wanted to arrive
>with a large gift of meats for the upcoming bridal
>feast, knowing full well the delay this would provide.
>He was relieved when, about mid-morning, the fresh
>spoor of a boar was spotted.
>
>[add in here the hunt of the boar]
>
>
>Late that night, the men approached the village, the
>boar strung between two stout poles, born 'borne' on each end
>by three men. Exhausted, but their blood still up from
>the hunt, then men were eager for food, ale, song, and
>the bed of a soft woman, and they weren’t so
>particular about in which order these things came.
>Baldür instructed the men carrying the boar to hang it
>from the tree next to the storage hut, to keep the
>village dogs from the carcass, while he and Gebicar
>went to his own house.
>
>She was on the floor, in the space cleared of rushes
>before the fire’s hearthstones. On her hands and
>knees, her naked breasts swinging as the man behind
>her bucked and thrust. Her face was obscured, her
>mouth filled with the c--- of the man before her,
>sliding back and forth along its length in rhythm with
>the pounding from her other end. The skin of all three
>was reddened with effort and excitement and glistened
>in the firelight. The men grunted and groaned. The
>woman moaned around her mouthful of flesh. There was
>wet sound of skin smacking and then a slurping,
>sucking sound as the woman drew the phallus from her
>mouth. Rocking furiously back into the man behind her
>she threw back her head and yelled, “Yes! Yes! Pound
>my c---!” Turning her head to the two stunned men in
>the doorway, her eyes heavy and unfocused with
>passion, she said “I’ve only the three holes, but I’ll
>f--- you two blind as soon as the two here are
>finished,” and turned back to working with her mouth. Wow, that was unexpected! And by the two newcomers as well!
>
>Baldür burst forward, grabbing the girl by the hair,
>dragging her away from the two men, while at the same
>time, bashing each man in turn upside the head with a
>club of wood, knocking them cold. The girl was
>screaming and clawing at him. Gebicar stepped forward,
>grabbing hold of her wrists and twisting her arms
>behind her back. The girl stopped screaming and spat
>in Baldür’s face. Baldür slapped her hard, twice.
>Stunned, the girl was still for a moment. His eyes and
>veins bulging, his face and neck empurpled, and his
>breathing heavy with rage, he grabbed the girl by the
>chin, his fingers digging into her cheeks and made her
>look him in the eye.
>
>At this moment, another woman, this one modestly
>dressed and heavy with pregnancy appeared in the
>doorway, accompanied by a three year old girl, whom
>she quickly shoved behind her skirts. “Baldür! What-”
>Before she could say another word, the naked girl went
>rigid with shock. Without letting go of the girl’s
>face, Baldür turned to Gebicar and said, between
>clenched teeth, “Gebicar, this is my wife,
>Amalasuintha,” nodding his head towards the door, “and
>our daughter, Blodueyn, and this” turning his head
>back to glare at the girl between them, “is my sister,
>Dagmær.”
The bride-to-be?!?! Holy shit, Batman...

I enjoyed this a lot. I can tell you've done a great deal of research into the time period and it shows. What I'm missing is descriptions, what Gebicar is seeing, what the mens' individual characteristics are, what kind of trees they're walking among, what they smell besides each others farts? You've got a lot of detail but I think you need to show us more than tell us. I'm horribly guilty of the same thing all the time and you will have ample opportunity to tell me the same thing, I assure you. But you've laid the groundwork for an intricate and fascinating tale. It sounds very ambitious but with an opening like this, I think you're well on your way and I look forward to reading more and finding out what happens!

As always, take what you find of my suggestion that are helpful and run with it. Anything you disagree with, please ignore.

Happy writing!
Debi

Last edited by author: Sat May 08, 2010 20:09:14   Edited 1 time.
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[> [> [> Re: Okay, here goes...my first submission for your perusal. -- Promise, 20:45:01 05/08/10 Sat

Debi,

Thank you! Your comments are all very helpful. I definitely have some good ideas now for how to improve the passage in the next draft.

I guess you can see I still struggle with doing dialogue without repeating "he said" ad infinitum. :0)

Yes, I've always struggled with the show/tell. I can pick up on it when others are/aren't doing it in their own work, but I have a difficult time doing it myself. Do you have any recommendations on how to do this?

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[> [> [> [> Re: Okay, here goes...my first submission for your perusal. -- Promise, 21:28:30 05/08/10 Sat

Without changing over to 1st person, that is?

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[> [> [> [> Well...;-) -- debikm, 21:37:24 05/08/10 Sat

>Debi,
>
>Thank you! Your comments are all very helpful. I
>definitely have some good ideas now for how to improve
>the passage in the next draft.

Glad I could help.
>
>I guess you can see I still struggle with doing
>dialogue without repeating "he said" ad infinitum. :0)

That's something I've fought with too. Instead of 'he'said', 'she said', I've found that indicating the speaker by their action can mix things up. Or pure dialogue can be fun, as long as the reader can tell who's speaking which lines.
>
>Yes, I've always struggled with the show/tell. I can
>pick up on it when others are/aren't doing it in their
>own work, but I have a difficult time doing it myself.
>Do you have any recommendations on how to do
>this?

LOL... if I did, maybe I wouldn't be getting my hand smacked for it all the time. I guess just be mindful while you're writing about the action to show what that person sees, hears, smells, etc. I slip up and stray into another charatcer's POV so obviously I need to work on it myself.

And something very simple that always works for your writing in general is read it out loud! Your ears can catch things your eyes will miss. I've read Old Dogs so MANY times, that I don't catch things I should. That's whay I crave the help this board provides so much. You have no idea how excited I am we have new kids in the sandbox!

Debi

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[> [> Go Vikings! -- Fi, 10:11:11 05/10/10 Mon

Hi Promise

Some good stuff here. The sense of time and place, companionship, violence, dialogue, imagery, characters. In short, the makings of a great story.

Some phrases I loved:
- "a hiss from the fire as a man coughed and spat into the flames"
- "you know well how they are at that age, all legs and arms and freckles.”
- "he didn’t want to have to waste time setting out by having to dig a grave."

However, I think the pacing could be improved. The first four paragraphs seemed a bit of an "info dump." There's a lot there, especially in the 2nd paragraph where you talk about the Burgundars, the Suebars, etc. This is probably important background information, but for me this is too soon, I don't care about Gebicar's backstory yet. Maybe trim some of this information from the staring paragraphs and feed it to us later after we've come to know him better. Tease us a bit....

A few well-chosen details about the landscape and people would add to the picture. What kind of trees are they? What season of the year is it? What are the men wearing?

>>> He gave instructions to his men to hunt any large pray they came upon along the way
This should be "prey".

But I loved the campfire banter and the fight, and after Dagmær's dramatic intro I definitely want to read more.

Fi

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[> [> [> Re: Go Vikings! -- Promise, 09:15:27 05/11/10 Tue

Thank you for your input! Also, thank you for mentioning what you liked in addition to the recommendations on how to improve. :0)

I see what you mean about the first few paragraphs being too much exposition...now I just have to figure out what to do about it!

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[> [> Hi, Promise! I have to take a quick trip out of town for a pre-school graduation this afternoon (I know, right? Pre-school graduation???) But I will be back to offer comments! I, er, promise! *G* -- Page, 13:46:17 05/11/10 Tue

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[> [> Whoa nelly! What an ending! In here >>>> -- Page, 11:07:26 05/12/10 Wed

First, let me just say that the research you've done shows beautifully. You've given me a real sense of time and place with this excerpt.

Also, this isn't a genre I'd normally read, but you've piqued my interest, made me already care about these characters and their situation and have left me thirsting for more. To do that to a reader who usually skips the fantasy section of the bookstore is super! Well done!

Oh, and one more thing: You need to post a copyright with your name, and a disclaimer that your excerpt is for critique and/or sharing only and does not constitute publication. (Just check out some of the other excerpts posted for examples.) Although none of us is going to nick your work, this is an open board, available to anyone on the web, so it's best to cover your bases. That said, on to the crit:

>Gebicar’s thoughts drifted like the motes lit by the
>shaft of late-afternoon sunlight that broke through
>the dense forest canopy above as his feet carried him
>across the rough terrain, his arms reaching
>automatically to move aside brush, branch and bramble. This is a mighty long sentence. Although I love the imagery of his thoughts drifting like the motes - so well-written! - and his pushing aside the foilage, the brain gets kind of lost processing it all at once. I think if you break it into two shorter sentences it will read stronger.
>His body was long accustomed to the rigors and dangers
>of the harsh terrain, and, outwardly, his attention
>appeared to be fully occupied by his environment, but
>his deeper mind was left unencumbered. Although he’d
>been hardened to quickly covering long distances afoot
>as a young boy, he’d never gotten truly comfortable
>with the mindless tediousness that a journey of any
>length always entailed. The impatient boy had grown
>into a man of swift decision and immediate action,
>curtailed only by the limits imposed on him by man—and
>he frequently stretched those to their breaking point
>and beyond. And yet his men followed him
>unwaiveringly unwaveringly —battle after battle, raid after
>raid—carving out their place in the land, marking this
>bit of earth as their own. First alongside his father,
>and now on his own, Gebicar was determined to widen
>and strengthen his people’s hold on this land to which
>his great-grandfather had brought them.
>
>They were the Burgundars, and they were forcing the
>other tribes to make room for them in this rich land
>between the three waters. The cost had not been small,
>but there was glory awaiting those who fell in battle
>in the halls of Valhöll (or among the angels of
>heaven, if you were one of the new Christ-men). And
>while there was never actual peace between them, their
>relations with the Suebars to the West, the Rugiars
>and Gepidars to the North, the Gothars and Venedars to
>the East, and the Lugiars to the South, was largely
>one of trade. At least these peoples lived much as his
>own did, unlike that curious tribe, the Romars, whose
>people they occasionally encountered. He’d heard it
>told that their jarl claimed to be a god and ruler of
>the whole earth! The Romars, themselves, those that
>he’d met, seemed to be no more than men, though queer
>in dress, manner, and speech. He’d seen them fall,
>mortal as any other man and he’d seen they required
>food and drink and were susceptible to the evils of
>too much mead and the charms of woman, same as any
>other man. And besides, their small bands appeared too
>infrequently for them to be of much concern. The
>weather, the land itself and the other tribes around
>them, the ever present threat of starvation and
>disease, whatever it was the Norns chose to weave into
>the fabric of one’s life—those were the immediate
>concerns that lived at the edges of one’s
>consciousness.
>
>In addition to defending against raiders from other
>tribes and leading raids into the lands of those same
>tribes, as he, and his band of warriors, made the
>circuit of the current borders of their lands, from
>the Wistla to the Odra, he secured not only their hold
>on the land, but the loyalty of his people, as they
>came to him with their problems and petitions, and he
>collected tallage and recruited new warriors. These
>were the duties of a jarl—in his person was justice
>and judgement. And yet there was one duty left undone.
>One that his father had wanted to see fulfilled before
>his death—which came quickly following a wound taken
>just three years ago in a raid against the Suebars—and
>which is mother reminded him constantly.
>
>Not that he hadn’t sired a handful of bastards—any
>virile young warrior had at least a by-blow or two—but
>all but one of them (those he knew about anyway)
>hadn’t survived beyond a year or two and the one
>remaining was a sweet and pretty girl that he doted
>upon the few times he’d seen her. A son and heir is
>what he needed—many sons. He knew that lesson well—all
>his brothers, older and younger, having died before
>manhood or not long after. Life was hard. Children
>died. It was just the way of the world. These three paragraphs are all backstory, and placed here are an info dump. It dragged me away from pushing through the brush with Gebicar and took me out of the story. I would suggest cutting them. How to weave backstory in is something I've struggled with myself, so I sympathize! While I realize these paragraphs contain information we'll need to know later, you can weave it in later in different ways. The tribes and peoples Gebicar battles, for example, could be worked in at a point where he's speaking with his men. Having it as part of a dialogue would allow you to show us their reactions to the traits of those "enemies," showing shudders of revulsion, maybe, or some kinds of superstition regarding the Romars. His duties as a jarl can be shown, not told, in passages where his people come to him and he deals with them. While backstory is an integral part of every story, weave it into the story in different ways instead of telling it to us in a large block of words.
>The early-autumn sun’s light began to fade. The air,
>already crisply cool, took on a sharper chill. At the
>bottom of a rise, near a rivulet, Gebicar came to a
>stop. Turning to his companions, “We’ll stop here
>awhile,” he announced, “I’ve a need to s---.”
>
>“Shall I start a fire?” asked Eberhart.
>
>“’Tis, nearing dark,” Búi observed. “Perhaps we should
>set up camp,”
>
>“I’ve a mind to sleep indoors tonight, in a proper
>bed, with a proper bedfellow. How much further to your
>keep, Baldür?”
>
>“In good light and fair weather at least a half day’s
>brisk walk. The path beyond this stream is mostly
>uphill, with many loose rocks.”
>
>“Ah, well, I suppose I’ll have to settle for another
>night of rough sleep with your farts for company,”
>Gebicar called over his shoulder as he made his way
>into the brush.
>
>The men laughed and began to unload their gear,
>talking and joking amongst themselves as they set
>about the making of a rough camp, refilling water
>skins, walking a few yards into the woods to s--- or
>p--- and bringing wood for the fire upon their return.
>The youngest men of the group quickly set about making
>a fire and getting water boiling, tossing into pots a
>few handfuls of grains, some dried fish and salt-pork,
>a bit of bitter greens gathered from the side of the
>road. Those lucky enough to capture small game along
>their day’s trek, set about skinning the carcasses and
>setting them to roast over the fire, spitted on
>sharpened sticks of green wood.
>
>
>Later, they sat around the fire, passing around the
>skin of mead and picking their teeth with bones. The
>last of the pottage had been scraped from the cookpot
>and if every man was not filled to his satisfaction,
>they at least had something warm in their bellies,
>which was more than all most? folk could say at night. Tired
>from the day’s travel, but not yet ready to sleep, the
>conversations and jokes continued, punctuated by
>belches and farts and the occasional rasping sound
>followed by a hiss from the fire as a man coughed and
>spat into the flames. “Tell me, Baldür,” said Gebicar,
>“has your sister fairly grown into a woman, then?
>Answer me truthfully man, for I’ve pledge pledged to you
>already that I would have her.” I'd suggested changing this to "I would wed her." You've done a beautiful job of showing these men are warriors and giving us a sense of their actions and attitudes, so "have her" is a little ambigous to me. Especially in light of how he finds her later, to know that he intends to marry her is stronger.
>
>“Truthfully, I cannot tell you,” Baldür replied. “I
>have not seen the girl myself in six years, since she
>was but a girl of 10 and you know well how they are at
>that age, all legs and arms and freckles.” At this all
>the men round chuckled. “She has been fostered with my
>uncle, who has two daughters of a similar age since
>the death of our mother. This reads a bit like the daughters were born since the death of their aunt. Maybe start it out, "Since the death of my mother, she's been fostered with..." I’d wanted to bring her back
>to be a companion to my wife when I married, but I’m
>afraid my uncle has spoiled her and she would not
>leave her cousins.”
>
>“Would not, ay? What kind of man, is he, your uncle,
>that he allows a maiden to disobey her brother?” Búi
>called from the other side of the fire, laughing and
>elbowing his neighbors.
>
>“A good and kind man who has cared for his sister’s
>daughter as if she were his own, with no thought to
>recompense from his nephew,” Gebicar said, standing
>with one arm holding back Baldür, who had risen, knife
>and fist drawn, tensed to leap across the fire at Búi.
>
>Careless of the anger steaming off of Baldür, “Even
>so, it’s a poor thing when a maiden is allowed her own
>way,“ Búi answered, turning from his neighbors to
>Gebicar, “and what if she says she will not be having
>you? As like to take a Valkyrie to your bed as an
>unwilling woman, as well you know. You’re like to be
>sleeping in your marriage bed alone.”
>
>At this, Baldür slipped past Gebicar’s grip and
>launched himself upon Búi, knocking them both back
>into the darkness beyond the light of the fire. Grunts
>and blows and the crackling of leaves and snapping of
>twigs could be heard as the two men grappled, their
>efforts rolling them further into the underbrush. The
>other men turned back to the fire, exchanging stories
>of their own encounters with thorny women. I love how the men just ignore them! “Don’t
>mind him,” Eberhart said, handing the skin of mead to
>Gebicar and clapping him upon the back, “You know he’s
>been bitter ever since his wife decided not to risk
>again the childbed and makes him sleep on the floor
>with the dogs. Besides,” he added, as Gebicar handed
>the skin back to him, “what maid wouldn’t want to be
>the wife of the Jarl?”
>
>
>Morning crept upon the forest. Gebicar’s band of
>warriors woke to the sounds of the forest waking all
>around them. Men stumbled off lean against a tree and
>take their morning p---, others drank deeply from the
>skins, swishing the liquid around to dissolve the
>nighttime scum. Bread, cheese, and sausages were
>brought to hand as packs were loaded back up and the
>remains of the fire scuffed out. Baldür and Búi,
>keeping clear of one another, moved gingerly, cuts and
>bruises from their scuffle showing livid upon their
>faces, hands and arms. Búi’s tunic was cut through in
>several places and showed dark and stiff with dried
>blood. The left leg of Baldür’s leggings was rent and
>he wrapped a length of cord around it to hold it
>closed. Despite the ferocity of the conflict, they’d
>managed not to kill each other, for which Gebicar was
>very glad. Not only were both men good friends and two
>of his fiercest fighters, he didn’t want to have to
>waste time setting out by having to dig a grave. Their
>belongings gathered, the men set out, easily crossing
>the rivulet with a giant step, breaking their fast as
>they went. Too early for conversation or song, the
>band was silent except for the sound of footfalls on
>detritus and undergrowth, the occasional curse as a
>rock turned underfoot, and the farts and belches that
>accompany any group of men.
>
>Not an hour had passed before the ground began to
>change and the men found themselves working steadily
>uphill. The grade was not steep and yet the going was
>slow, as Baldür had warned the night before, the
>ground was littered with large, loose stones. Fully
>warmed and awakened now by the effort of keeping pace,
>bits of quiet conversation floated back and forth
>amongst the men. Gebicar, however, remained silent,
>his mind occupied by his dreams from the night before.
>More troubled by Búi’s comments than he cared to
>admit, his dreams had been haunted. He’d gone
>repeatedly to his bridal bed, and each time there’d
>been a new horror waiting—a wolf, a bear, a troll—each
>one devouring him as he attempted to bed his fiendish
>bride. He’d awakened in the night, drenched in sweat
>and breathless. Fearful of the dreams returning, he’d
>relieved the man on watch and kept himself all the
>rest of the night.
>
>Perhaps because of the dreams, or perhaps it was only
>the nervousness all bridegrooms feel, he was no longer
>in any hurry to arrive at Baldür’s village. He gave
>instructions to his men to hunt any large pray prey they
>came upon along the way, saying he wanted to arrive
>with a large gift of meats for the upcoming bridal
>feast, knowing full well the delay this would provide.
>He was relieved when, about mid-morning, the fresh
>spoor of a boar was spotted.
>
>[add in here the hunt of the boar]
>
>
>Late that night, the men approached the village, the
>boar strung between two stout poles, born borne on each end
>by three men. Exhausted, but their blood still up from
>the hunt, then men were eager for food, ale, song, and
>the bed of a soft woman, and they weren’t so
>particular about in which order these things came.
>Baldür instructed the men carrying the boar to hang it
>from the tree next to the storage hut, to keep the
>village dogs from the carcass, while he and Gebicar
>went to his own house.
>
>She was on the floor, in the space cleared of rushes
>before the fire’s hearthstones. On her hands and
>knees, her naked breasts swinging as the man behind
>her bucked and thrust. Her face was obscured, her
>mouth filled with the c--- of the man before her,
>sliding back and forth along its length in rhythm with
>the pounding from her other end. The skin of all three
>was reddened with effort and excitement and glistened
>in the firelight. The men grunted and groaned. The
>woman moaned around her mouthful of flesh. There was
>wet sound of skin smacking and then a slurping,
>sucking sound as the woman drew the phallus from her
>mouth. Rocking furiously back into the man behind her
>she threw back her head and yelled, “Yes! Yes! Pound
>my c---!” Turning her head to the two stunned men in
>the doorway, her eyes heavy and unfocused with
>passion, she said “I’ve only the three holes, but I’ll
>f--- you two blind as soon as the two here are
>finished,” and turned back to working with her mouth.
>
>Baldür burst forward, grabbing the girl by the hair,
>dragging her away from the two men, while at the same
>time, bashing each man in turn upside the head with a
>club of wood, knocking them cold. The girl was
>screaming and clawing at him. Gebicar stepped forward,
>grabbing hold of her wrists and twisting her arms
>behind her back. The girl stopped screaming and spat
>in Baldür’s face. Baldür slapped her hard, twice.
>Stunned, the girl was still for a moment. His eyes and
>veins bulging, his face and neck empurpled, and his
>breathing heavy with rage, he grabbed the girl by the
>chin, his fingers digging into her cheeks and made her
>look him in the eye.
>
>At this moment, another woman, this one modestly
>dressed and heavy with pregnancy appeared in the
>doorway, accompanied by a three year old girl, whom
>she quickly shoved behind her skirts. “Baldür! What-”
>Before she could say another word, the naked girl went
>rigid with shock. Without letting go of the girl’s
>face, Baldür turned to Gebicar and said, between
>clenched teeth, “Gebicar, this is my wife,
>Amalasuintha,” nodding his head towards the door, “and
>our daughter, Blodueyn, and this” turning his head
>back to glare at the girl between them, “is my sister,
>Dagmær.” Ah, the blushing bride. *G* Can't wait to find out how Gebicar reacts to this!

Overall, this is very well-done. It draws the reader in, gives a sense of time and place, and the characters are very well developed! I'd suggest cutting down some of the longer sentences, tightening them up and making them read stronger. You have some lovely imagery here, but most of it deals with the terrain. I'd like to see more about the characters; what they're wearing, how long is their hair, do Gebicar's eyes flash green fire, or blue, or does their normal brown turn tawny when he's angry, etc.

And seriously - what's he gonna do when he finds out Miss Pound Me is his intended bride???

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[> [> [> Re: Whoa nelly! What an ending! In here >>>> -- Promise, 20:48:06 05/12/10 Wed

First, let me just say that the research you've done shows beautifully. You've given me a real sense of time and place with this excerpt.

Thank you. It's good to hear that all the hard work I've done so far has been worth it. Most of it *has* been interesting, but some stuff I've had to slog through...IYKWIM.

Also, this isn't a genre I'd normally read, but you've piqued my interest, made me already care about these characters and their situation and have left me thirsting for more. To do that to a reader who usually skips the fantasy section of the bookstore is super! Well done!

*blush* Thanks! I'm trying to do more of a historical fiction slant on this, although the source material, were it written today, would be classified as fantasy. I hope that doesn't make it difficult to get published.

Oh, and one more thing: You need to post a copyright with your name, and a disclaimer that your excerpt is for critique and/or sharing only and does not constitute publication. (Just check out some of the other excerpts posted for examples.) Although none of us is going to nick your work, this is an open board, available to anyone on the web, so it's best to cover your bases. That said, on to the crit:

Unfortunately, I didn't think of that until after I'd posted and I couldn't edit. I will absolutely do that on future postings.

These three paragraphs are all backstory, and placed here are an info dump. It dragged me away from pushing through the brush with Gebicar and took me out of the story. I would suggest cutting them. How to weave backstory in is something I've struggled with myself, so I sympathize! While I realize these paragraphs contain information we'll need to know later, you can weave it in later in different ways. The tribes and peoples Gebicar battles, for example, could be worked in at a point where he's speaking with his men. Having it as part of a dialogue would allow you to show us their reactions to the traits of those "enemies," showing shudders of revulsion, maybe, or some kinds of superstition regarding the Romars. His duties as a jarl
can be shown, not told, in passages where his people come to him and he deals with them. While backstory is an integral part of every story, weave it into the story in different ways instead of telling it to us in a large block of words.

Yeah, I'm having difficulties with this. One good thing about a first draft is that in part it serves just to get everything out of your head and onto "paper". :0)

The other problem is that Gebicar's story itself is in large part "backstory" to the main events of the novel. You know how fairy tales start out "Once Upon a time, in a land far, far away, then king and queen had a baby girl"? Well, I'm not starting there, I'm starting w/ the king and queen, because what happens to them sets up what happens later. But I don't want to spend 1/3 of the novel on them. I can't, there's too much that happens later.

For now, I think I'm going to leave this part as it is and edit it out/down later as I have other places to incorporate the info. Hope that plan makes sense?

Overall, this is very well-done. It draws the reader in, gives a sense of time and place, and the characters are very well developed! I'd suggest cutting down some of the longer sentences, tightening them up and making them read stronger. You have some lovely imagery here, but most of it deals with the terrain. I'd like to see more about the characters; what they're wearing, how long is their hair, do Gebicar's eyes flash green fire, or blue, or does their normal brown turn tawny when he's angry, etc.

Looking back, I realize that that is seriously missing. I can clearly picture them in my mind, so I guess I made the classic error of assuming the reader could, too. Bad me! *whips self with wet noodles*

I really need to sit down and write out my character profiles. It's something I've been meaning to do for a while. Having this first bit so well-received here has given me the encouragement I needed to really set my nose to the grindstone.

And seriously - what's he gonna do when he finds out Miss Pound Me is his intended bride???

Honestly, I've been thinking more about how Baldür reacts. I have no idea what Gebicar's next move is. :D

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[> [> Hey Promise! I’m a little late to the party, but want to welcome you to the lit! This way >>> -- Esther, 13:44:12 05/17/10 Mon

I’m so glad you’re here, and look forward to more of your excerpts! Generally speaking, the first post isn’t crited per say as it is usually hard enough to click on that send button without worrying about how your writing is going to be taken. What I will do though, is give you some of my impressions as a reader, which hopefully will give you some insights that will help.

Okay, first off, you wondered about the time period being clear. You have the narrative where Gebicar is walking, where it explains he was off conquering new lands and then you mention he is a jarl. So that puts me into the medieval period, and then with the word Valkyrie I’m thinking Norse. But then when I googled those references you gave, it says Nibelunglied is an epic poem in High German. Perhaps if I had a better picture, what they were wearing for instance, it might be clearer. So, I might not be quite sure, but I’m going with Norse Vikings. *G*

Second, you mentioned you didn’t know our ‘policy’ on strong language. It has always been my thinking that these boards are restricted to those under the age of 18, so we’re all adults here, so I’m fine with the words being typed out in full. *G* But as I have read this scene in its entirety, I’m going to suggest that in the future you put up a disclaimer, like you did with the strong language, stating it has suggestive scenes or perhaps that it is NSFW (not safe for work), just to give a heads up if reading that kind of thing isn’t your cup of tea. Oh and a general disclaimer at the top to protect yourself is a good idea too.

But as for the language, as I said, I have no problem with it. But here, I did notice that the first words Gebicar said were along the lines of we’ll stop here because I have to have a shit. Okay, maybe that was true. But what about it being a good place, you know with water around so they could fill their canteens/pouches or whatever. Did it offer shade? Something besides a good latrine? Because this is my first impression of him, stating his intent and marching into the bush to leave a pile of crap. And then too, I’m wondering what he wiped his ass with. In this case, I think it’s possible to get the point across without him saying it, or me as a reader, seeing him squatting in the trees. Same with the guys having a piss. I think you can show the men going about their morning routines without me having to visualize the stream of urine. Believe me; I know the pose well enough. *G* My view on strong language, and bodily functions, is to use them when and where it will have impact. Here I just don’t think it adds to the scene. Just my opinion, and remember you are free to ignore me.

And okay, I’ve debated whether I should mention this or not, but what the heck, you have to get used to me sooner or later. *G* Now, I don’t think myself as being a prude, not by any means. But those last three paragraphs threw me for a loop. Now this is the first excerpt of yours I read, and so I’m making some assumptions.

The first assumption being about your intent. I believe I was suppost to have a reaction like holy crap! I had a reaction alright, and I don’t think it’s what you wanted. It was like I was taken out of the epic and thrust into a porn flick. I can and usually read everything, but this, because of the language, and the dialogue, not to mention the visuals themselves, is more vivid than anything else in the scene. I personally don’t consider this erotic and I can easily see where it could be considered crude, and as such has the potential to offend some readers, so you really need to be aware of your target audience. Just something to be aware of.

My second assumption is about the characters. I think Dagmær is going a major player, basing this assumption on the fact Gebicar was going to ‘have” her, and this doesn’t shed a very good light on her. IMO. But as it’s my opinion that keeps me reading, I have to say that this was her introduction to me and this compromising position she was caught in, might influence my thinking enough to not continue turning the page. Second, Baldür. That’s his wife that’s pregnant, and I have the impression that he was gone on his campaigning for quite a while, enhanced by the fact they are afoot, travelling would be slow if nothing else, so my question is who the heck has she been sleeping with. Couple that with the fact that she walks into the room, sees her husband’s sister acting the whore with numerous men, (and apparently enjoying it and eager to have two more join in) with her daughter at her skirts, and she behaves as if this ‘activity’ is normal. And why the heck is Baldur’s sister there anyway? Why isn’t she at her Uncle’s? Where are the two cousins? Are they part of this as well? What is this anyway? A house of ill-repute? Prolly not the welcome home party any of the men expected. And that reminds me, they were walking, and so I assume a group of victorious warriors returning to the village would arouse some sort of reaction from the people wouldn’t it? How late did they arrive? And even if it was late, I don’t imagine the group of men was quiet because they were ready for women, song, food and ale in no particular order. Conquering heroes don’t sneak in the back door. Besides they are bloodied from the hunt, their arousal is high, and damn it, they’ve just come home.

Now clearly, I have questions, and it’s those questions that have the potential to keep me reading. And just to clarify, no, I wasn’t offended by the whole three on one thing going on, I just think that sometimes subtle is better than shoving something a bit more than suggestive in someone else's face.

Given the anger Baldur has displayed, and your focus on him, it’s his reaction I wonder about. Also, from his reaction and consequent brawl with Bui, I get Baldur is a warrior with every fibre of his being. This is more than a smear against his name. Honour is at stake. Women were chattel and maidens obeyed the man of the house. Not only is his 16 year old sister no longer a maiden, nor married, she’s not at her uncle’s. His wife is sprouting the seed of another man. And as the story started with Gebicar, I assumed this was his scene and so I wonder about the switch of focus on the characters. I know more about Balder, or have made assumptions based on what you showed us, than I have seen or assumed about Gebicar. What comes to mind when I think Gebicar is that he’s kind to his daughter. He wants sons and an heir. And the woman he wanted to wed could very well be sporting her own belly bumb as a result of the seed of some other nameless man. I’d like to see his reaction as well.

Okay, way more than I intended to say on our first meeting, but there you have it. The ol’ use what you can, toss the rest is, as always, your option. It’s your story, and the effort you’ve put into the research shows your dedication. All in all, an exceptional first post! I'd love to read more!

Hugs

Esther

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[> [> [> Re: Hey Promise! I’m a little late to the party, but want to welcome you to the lit! This way >>> -- Promise, 01:40:42 05/19/10 Wed

I’m so glad you’re here, and look forward to more of your excerpts! Generally speaking, the first post isn’t crited per say as it is usually hard enough to click on that send button without worrying about how your writing is going to be taken. What I will do though, is give you some of my impressions as a reader, which hopefully will give you some insights that will help.

Hey, if my writing gets torn to shreds, then that’s because I didn’t do my job. At least w/ the internet it’s not as hard as sitting across the table from someone who’s taking your writing apart. :0)

Okay, first off, you wondered about the time period being clear. You have the narrative where Gebicar is walking, where it explains he was off conquering new lands and then you mention he is a jarl. So that puts me into the medieval period, and then with the word Valkyrie I’m thinking Norse. But then when I googled those references you gave, it says Nibelunglied is an epic poem in High German. Perhaps if I had a better picture, what they were wearing for instance, it might be clearer. So, I might not be quite sure, but I’m going with Norse Vikings. *G*

Gotcha, need more descriptive info.

Just in case you’re interested, the Nibelunglied was written in High German, but the events in the story take place during the Migration Period, aka Late Antiquity, aka Early Middle Ages, so, around 300-500 BCE. Vikings actually didn’t exist yet. However, some of the German peoples (the barbarians according to Rome) share a common ancestry with the people who became the Vikings. Ancient German gods/beliefs were the basis for the Norse gods. So, they’re really all kind of the same people. So, yeah, confusing.

Second, you mentioned you didn’t know our ‘policy’ on strong language. It has always been my thinking that these boards are restricted to those under the age of 18, so we’re all adults here, so I’m fine with the words being typed out in full. *G* But as I have read this scene in its entirety, I’m going to suggest that in the future you put up a disclaimer, like you did with the strong language, stating it has suggestive scenes or perhaps that it is NSFW (not safe for work), just to give a heads up if reading that kind of thing isn’t your cup of tea. Oh and a general disclaimer at the top to protect yourself is a good idea too.

Good idea. I’ll keep that in mind.

But as for the language, as I said, I have no problem with it. But here, I did notice that the first words Gebicar said were along the lines of we’ll stop here because I have to have a shit. Okay, maybe that was true. But what about it being a good place, you know with water around so they could fill their canteens/pouches or whatever. Did it offer shade? Something besides a good latrine? Because this is my first impression of him, stating his intent and marching into the bush to leave a pile of crap. And then too, I’m wondering what he wiped his ass with. In this case, I think it’s possible to get the point across without him saying it, or me as a reader, seeing him squatting in the trees. Same with the guys having a piss. I think you can show the men going about their morning routines without me having to visualize the stream of urine. Believe me; I know the pose well enough. *G* My view on strong language, and bodily functions, is to use them when and where it will have impact. Here I just don’t think it adds to the scene. Just my opinion, and remember you are free to ignore me.

Totally good point. I think I’ve resorted to crude language in an effort to make them seem rough, which is really a cheap trick.

And okay, I’ve debated whether I should mention this or not, but what the heck, you have to get used to me sooner or later. *G* Now, I don’t think myself as being a prude, not by any means. But those last three paragraphs threw me for a loop. Now this is the first excerpt of yours I read, and so I’m making some assumptions.

The first assumption being about your intent. I believe I was suppost to have a reaction like holy crap! I had a reaction alright, and I don’t think it’s what you wanted. It was like I was taken out of the epic and thrust into a porn flick. I can and usually read everything, but this, because of the language, and the dialogue, not to mention the visuals themselves, is more vivid than anything else in the scene. I personally don’t consider this erotic and I can easily see where it could be considered crude, and as such has the potential to offend some readers, so you really need to be aware of your target audience. Just something to be aware of.

My second assumption is about the characters. I think Dagmær is going a major player, basing this assumption on the fact Gebicar was going to ‘have” her, and this doesn’t shed a very good light on her. IMO. But as it’s my opinion that keeps me reading, I have to say that this was her introduction to me and this compromising position she was caught in, might influence my thinking enough to not continue turning the page. Second, Baldür. That’s his wife that’s pregnant, and I have the impression that he was gone on his campaigning for quite a while, enhanced by the fact they are afoot, travelling would be slow if nothing else, so my question is who the heck has she been sleeping with. Couple that with the fact that she walks into the room, sees her husband’s sister acting the whore with numerous men, (and apparently enjoying it and eager to have two more join in) with her daughter at her skirts, and she behaves as if this ‘activity’ is normal. And why the heck is Baldur’s sister there anyway? Why isn’t she at her Uncle’s? Where are the two cousins? Are they part of this as well? What is this anyway? A house of ill-repute? Prolly not the welcome home party any of the men expected. And that reminds me, they were walking, and so I assume a group of victorious warriors returning to the village would arouse some sort of reaction from the people wouldn’t it? How late did they arrive? And even if it was late, I don’t imagine the group of men was quiet because they were ready for women, song, food and ale in no particular order. Conquering heroes don’t sneak in the back door. Besides they are bloodied from the hunt, their arousal is high, and damn it, they’ve just come home.

Now clearly, I have questions, and it’s those questions that have the potential to keep me reading. And just to clarify, no, I wasn’t offended by the whole three on one thing going on, I just think that sometimes subtle is better than shoving something a bit more than suggestive in someone else's face.

Given the anger Baldur has displayed, and your focus on him, it’s his reaction I wonder about. Also, from his reaction and consequent brawl with Bui, I get Baldur is a warrior with every fibre of his being. This is more than a smear against his name. Honour is at stake. Women were chattel and maidens obeyed the man of the house. Not only is his 16 year old sister no longer a maiden, nor married, she’s not at her uncle’s. His wife is sprouting the seed of another man. And as the story started with Gebicar, I assumed this was his scene and so I wonder about the switch of focus on the characters. I know more about Balder, or have made assumptions based on what you showed us, than I have seen or assumed about Gebicar. What comes to mind when I think Gebicar is that he’s kind to his daughter. He wants sons and an heir. And the woman he wanted to wed could very well be sporting her own belly bumb as a result of the seed of some other nameless man. I’d like to see his reaction as well.

Okay, yeah, the thin w/ Dagmær *is* supposed to be shocking, but I can see that I’ve probably pushed it too far. I definitely don’t want the reader to be taken out of the story by this scene. So I’ve got some work to do there.

I think part of the problem is that I don’t have a very clear idea in my head of who Gebicar is. I hadn’t intended for Baldur to become so prominent, but he just kinda took over…IYKWIM…

Obviously I’ve left some things (Dagmær has returned to her brother’s house for the purpose of being married to Gebicar…they’ve been gone a while, but Baldur’s wife is very pregnant and with his child and she’s very much freaked out by walking in on the scene) rather muddled.


Okay, way more than I intended to say on our first meeting, but there you have it. The ol’ use what you can, toss the rest is, as always, your option. It’s your story, and the effort you’ve put into the research shows your dedication. All in all, an exceptional first post! I'd love to read more!

Thank you so much! You’ve really taken a lot of time and thought to give me some great feedback and I’m extremely appreciative!

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[> Re: Okay, here goes...my first submission for your perusal. -- Paige2, 21:25:45 05/09/10 Sun

Hi Promise,

I am the other newbie here that Deb spoke about. :-)

I just read your post and Deb's review. I agreed with everything Deb said. I was all set to make corrections, etc. but found that Deb beat me to the punch (TY Deb), so all I can give you is my impressions as a reader.

Your story holds much promise (just like your name). The way you ended it was like 'Wow didn't see that coming'. :-)

The beginning was very vivid. However, the sentences were rather long. Also, there was alot of information in the first couple of paragraphs to take in all at once. I'm not sure if a reader is going to remember it - but you didn't lose me.

I applaud you in your attention to detail, I could definitely visualize the setting, felt like I was right there with them crunchin/stomping through the brush. Can't wait to read more. Great writing!

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[> [> Re: Okay, here goes...my first submission for your perusal. -- Promise, 09:19:44 05/11/10 Tue

Hi fellow newbie! :0)

I am looking forward to reading your stuff!

I *think* right now I'm caught between wanting to get the bit I've written so far "perfect" (or as much so as possible) and moving on and just getting more of the story down. I'm guessing you know what I mean by that?

I had not thought previously about long sentences being a problem, but since several of you have mentioned it, I guess it's something I'll need to work on. Unfortunately, that's kind of my style up to this point and it's going to be difficult to alter.

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[> Re: Okay, here goes...my first submission for your perusal. -- Lady Oliver, 17:39:14 05/12/10 Wed

I don't usually post on the Lit forum but I wandered in here the other day and read a few things. I may not have any useful crits for you but I just had to tell you that this was very surprising (in a good way). I enjoyed this excerpt and can't stop thinking about it. I _really_ want to know what is gonna happen next. I think the experts here have given you some good advice.

I also wanted to mention that the last story about Vikings I tried to read was the Novik piece in Warriors, I couldn't get much past the first page. I wasn't sure that it was the subject or the style that I didn't like. Now I'm pretty sure it's her style I couldn't click with.

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[> [> Re: Okay, here goes...my first submission for your perusal. -- Promise, 20:15:52 05/12/10 Wed

Awww, shucks. *blush* I really appreciate you taking the time to write. It is a wonderful encouragement that, even with all the things I need to fix, someone enjoyed what I've written. :0)

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