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| Subject: course - initiation | |
Author: sweetsong | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: 15/02/07 9:41 have found a great course that leads to full initiation as a witch, they have been great to chat to: "The course follows the traditional 'Year and a day' training of Wicca and leads towards Initiation into the Circles of the Wise. That is split into a six month duration initial course, ('Wise-Craft') plus a further three to six months of direct training with Galdraheim Coven for those who do move on from the course to work directly with us. (Pre-Initiation Dedicant training) We will discuss this further as you move through the course" http://www.galdraheim.kirion.net/ i may not be here much..gonna be busy!!!! [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
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Author: sweetsong [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 9:43 oh angry for their coven which is near me they say you can only be a member if: "you are not undergoing treatment for psychiatric or psychological problems, or taking medication for such." so much for inclusive pagans!! :( that is horrible!!!! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Wolfsdream [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 10:22 This is only my thoughts Sweetsong, but from what little I know of Wicca any coven that advertises for memebers makes me suspicious. Normally an individual is ether invited to join the coven or the coven has such a string of people wanting to join you have to wait ages for a place. The conditions they mention though are for your protection and in any magick/occult system such conditions are always a good idea. Maybe you should go on talking to them and get to know them better?? [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: paganwolf (suspicious) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 10:52 I'm with whitewolf on this. i've never known of a coven advertising although i can't say for certain it doesn't happen. It does seem very odd however. I'd suggest self initiation and take it from there. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: paganwolf (not woken up yet) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 10:56 Oops. sorry i meant Wolfsdream. not enough coffee yet! I'll get the sackcloth and ashes now but i do agree it would be a good idea to talk to them further. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: newy [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 11:05 Got to addmit, does sound a bit odd that one Sweetsong. Let us know how things go. Love n lite Newy [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: sweetsong [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 11:47 "in any magick/occult system such conditions are always a good idea." - why - what is the point of something that is not open to all. i may never be free of my bi polar problems does this rule me out of paganism??? :( how do you find covens if they are not advertised it is not like you can just go along to a church or temple. what is the difference between this and going along tothe methodiest church or buddhist centre local to me which put up notices in the community centre? thanks fro your replies most worried about the mental health aspect though. feel excluded. dont understand. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: whitewolf [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 13:11 I wholeheartedly agree with Wolfie! what is the point of something that is not open to all. i may never be free of my bi polar problems does this rule me out of paganism??? Sweetsong - I realyl do think you ought to take a step back and think about what it is you are looking for. Paganism is such a wide umbrella term... The coven you are looking at above is Wiccan orientated for a start - is this an area of Paganism you are drawn to then? Have you researched? The reason such conditions are in place I expect is down to the fact that a) you'd be working in a group with other people (which has to be a very open and trusting group if it is to work 'properly') therefore psychiatric / psychological conditions DO come in to play and b) if you're attempting to work magic, don't you agree that if you have psychiatric or psychological problems, or are taking medication for such conditions, you may not be in the most ideal state of mind/health. Just my opinions of course.... but if I was working in a group and (especially when you don't even know these people yet) I would NOT be working magic with someone I did not feel was phsyically and mentally able. It would (imo) be potentially dangerous for the person in question, myself and others. In further answer to 'does this rule me out of paganism???' - of course not - again, I feel you may be getting names confused - Wicca is NOT the only aspect of Paganism to look into... and why such a rush to get on with 'magic'? I personally feel that the most important thing for you at the moment is to know yourself. Do not be in such a rush to jump sweetsong... from where I'm sitting it doesn't seem that you have looked to check what you are jumping into. No offense meant sweetsong. :) [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: sweetsong [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 13:54 is terrible - it implies that only if you are mentally healthy can you work with magic. this is terrible since 1 in 5 people experience mental illness in their lives and it does not mean they are going to cause disrpuption to other people. as i have said before as a hindu have worked with magic practices according to the vedas so am not green in this area and know my responsibilities. implying someone who is mentally ill is not mentally able to do magic is horrible and excluding. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: whitewolf [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 14:01 The people you spoke of are not saying that someone with mental problems is not able to work magic, they are simply saying that they do not wish to work with individuals who suffer from mental problems - and it is there right to say so. Why do you feel you need to work in a coven sweetsong? I think once again you are confusing terms... You mentioned church and coven together, but these are not equivalents of one another... I think perhaps you are just looking for a gathering where you can meet others, chat, maybe do some workshops to get a taste of different things etc... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Wolfsdream [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 14:23 Well Whitewolf has answered your second question far better than I could Sweetsong. 'Traditional magick'--if there is such a thing-- needs a very high degree of trust between people. There is also the fact that you would be raising and using/directing energy and that can have strong effects on people. All magick systems have this sort of initiatory period that is in part intended to instill a sense of balance before you move on to working magick. Don't take it personally Sweetsong. They may well also be seeking to protecting themselves from legal procedings to. I have not looked in detail at the website but are they asking you to pay them for this course Sweetsong???... Whitewolf is also right that you bi-polar does not exclude you from Paganism...no way does it. I can't help wondering what you are seeking though Sweetsong? Is it a religion/ belief system or what? You see although I call myself pagan I don't follow or pay any homage to any God/Goddess at all. For me...and this is me only...I dont see my pagan path as a religion. Spirtual yes...religion no. I agree with WW that unless you are set on following a Wiccan path...and there are several.. it may be best if you spend some time doing a lot of research about pagan paths/viewpoint etc to gain a better understanding. Hope that helps and does not confuse you. NO need to for the sack cloth Paganwolf..lol. Wolfsdream. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Dragonlady [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 14:40 I agree with both Wolfie and Gillie and think that perhaps you should read some books and look to the way you want to be. You don't have to be any specific type of Pagan. Also if your doctor has diagnosed you with bi-polar there are quite a few websites that deal with the specific problem and have self help ideas. Also perhaps a little more positivity instead of getting too hung up on your illness. Highly charged and raised energies when you are ill can cause problems - it doesn't really matter whether you have bi-polar or a little depression or a physical illness. The raised energies will affect anyone. As an aside, before I had my new heart valve Daryl, my son (who is a qualified Indian Head Massager as well as spiritual healer, Reiki and Crystal healer) would not give me an Indian Head massage because of the effect it has on the blood system - raising energies and making the blood flow faster and could have caused problems for me. So, they are not wrong to say what they did. Sorry that was a bit of a waffle. Please don't take offence at what I have said SS just my thoughts. As I have said in another post - you take yourself down a path of negativity by going on about an illness and can "cause things to happen". Dragonlady [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: sweetsong [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 15:10 "As I have said in another post - you take yourself down a path of negativity by going on about an illness and can "cause things to happen". this is awful! surely that makes people feel they have caused their illnesses then! is that what you are implying!!! wow i feel so judged and blamed and patronised. "Also perhaps a little more positivity instead of getting too hung up on your illness." right, how do you just become positive then, think myself into positivity? i have never heard anyone tell me to not be 'too hung up on my illness' before. i feel so misunderstood here and excluded - so nobody wants to work with me until i no longer have a mental illness diagnosis - that sucks. i don't want to continue this feeling of exlucsion - none of it is good for me. i am leaving the garden i get a sense that i am a pain and am sick of advice. those that know me, know my e mail addy. i wish you all luck. thanks for trying to help anyway. i know you are kind people. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Dragonlady [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 15:47 When I said "you" I didn't mean you personally sweetsong, I mean you as in plural. Perhaps I should had said "one takes oneself down a path of negativity by going on about an illness and can "cause things to happen". You have misinterpreted my words and taken it as a personal insult which I am sure if you read again you will realise that is not what they are meant to be. Of course I do not mean to patronise you - I have been there myself, with physical not mental illness but there really isn't a lot of difference, attitude affects things be they mental or physical. Sorry if I have upset you sweetsong, it wasn't intended. Dragonlady [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Lilly from the Valley [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 15:39 Oh dear Sweetsong I come across this kind of situation many times, as my business involves communication via e mail and telephone only. When you dont see another persons face or hear the tone of their voice it is very easy to misread what they are saying - believe me its come back & bitten me on the bottom more than once. I dont believe for one minute anyone here in the Garden means to patronise, judge or exclude you. Indeed, if they wanted to exclude you they wouldnt respond to your posts would they? When I first decided I wanted to know more about Paganism, I wanted to throw everying into it and grow in my knowledge. I have, however, learned that a lot of what I call 'my path' is about self learning - something no one can really teach you. I thought about Wicca for a while and bought books - even enrolled on a course on the internet (foolish now I know). Anyway, when I eventually grounded myself I realised that Wicca wasnt the path for me but Im not saying it isnt the path for you. I am quite alone in my beliefs and have no one like-minded whom I can buddy up with. I think WW is quite right in advising you to slow down and take a step back. Ask yourself what YOU want to get out of paganism - it is a vast umbrella and there is no right or wrong path. The only path is what feels right for YOU. It would be a shame to lose you from the Garden but if you feel so strongly then this is your decision. I can promise you though that you wont come across a better forum in which to share your feelings. The advice given has come from the heart with your best interests in mind. Dont shun those that embrace you. This is not a judgemental site - we all have our problems in life whether health or otherwise and coming to this wonderful Garden full of beautiful people can only enhance your journey. If we all had the same thoughts and beliefs, what a dull world this would be. Shame to see you go but if you choose to return in the future, I know you will be warmly welcomed. Take care in whatever you do and know that there is always a place for you in the Garden. Blessings Lil [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: whitewolf [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 16:10 "...surely that makes people feel they have caused their illnesses then!..." There are many schools of thought which do indeed believe that negativity breeds illness, and similarly that positive thinking can heal. I agree. Think about the people you know who are always positive and smiling - how often do these get ill compared to those people you know who are constantly being negative... which group of people would you say is the healthiest? Some articles / sites of interest : Negativity Linked To Heart Disease Study: Men Who Are Angry, Depressed, Hostile More Likely To Develop Coronary Problems http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/17/health/webmd/main2196883.shtml ‘Negativitis’ cripples the human spirit : http://personal-development.com/chuck/negativethinking.htm Conquering negativity : http://www.harmonyguru.com/2006/09/conquering_nega.html Saying No to Negativity : http://www.alive.com/3222a6a2.php?subject_bread_cramb=111 There's plenty of sites and books and people out there... NOW - taking into account that our bodies consist of roughly 70% water, this following experiment is particularly interesting and very much relevant to this discussion - a fascinating experiment, please check it out : Miraculous Messages from Water : http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm "...how do you just become positive then, think myself into positivity?..." Yes. Please, not for us, but you sweetsong, try this little experiment and see how you feel after, say, two weeks / a month. Try daily affirmations to boost yourself - on waking, think to yourself 'this is going to be a great morning/day' - remind yourself throughout the day that you are (for example) 'a loving person'• 'happy and relaxed' • 'filled with love and healing energies' - or something like 'Just for today I will not be angry' • 'Just for today I will be grateful' • 'Just for today I will be happy' etc... Try looking in the mirror, touching your face or patting the area over your heart and saying aloud 'I love you' - 'I am confident and happy'... the added physical contact helps you acknowledge that you are speaking to yourself.... if that makes sense :) Try this every day and if you don't feel any different... well... you've not lost anything in trying it have you :) Do you meditate? I really do feel this could help you - if only to help you be more relaxed, which would hopefully lead to a more positive outlook on life. "...so nobody wants to work with me until i no longer have a mental illness diagnosis..." i feel you may have over-reacted on this a little sweetsong - nobody in the Garden has said that... we have merely stated the importance of being mentally sound in order to work magic effectively and safely, and have pointed out that it is acceptable for a group to state a preference in the matter (as the coven in question did). "... i get a sense that i am a pain and am sick of advice..." I'm sorry you feel this way sweetsong - I personally feel that the Garden folk have been nothing but friendly, helpful and polite to you....if you are "sick of advice" why do you keep asking for it? Namaste whitewolf [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: sweetsong [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 16:13 thank you but i feel i need to express about my illness and not to be told i am negative or judged or told to pull my socks up. it is a part of me and a huge journey. some days i am negative but i try not to reject myself when i am. the whole of me needs to be embraced and honoured and loved. the lack of understanding of mental illness is everywhere of course why i expect it to be different here shows my naivity. i am also leaving because paganism is not accessible to me. it confuses me and there is so many mixed messages. it is supposed to be secular but then is so organised too. buddhism was the same - the zen people who don't recognise worship and are all 'drop concepts, listen to no scripture, keep an open mind and live in the moment, accept all that comes your way, and be one with all' and the tibetan ones who are all for worshipping goddesses, karma and reading liturgy and trying to visualise change. one mintues people honour godes and goddesses the next they say this is not for me. not accessible. same as pagan...wicca/hedge witches/druids/ so confusing. well t ome wanyway. it is not for me. i am going back to my hindu routes for my life path and to connect in terms of mother earth through the greenpeace conservation group i meet with every weekend. thanks for listening. you are all loving people. i will lurk probably but am not going to interact here. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: sweetsong [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 16:21 "Think about the people you know who are always positive and smiling - how often do these get ill compared to those people you know who are constantly being negative... which group of people would you say is the healthiest? " i disagree and this is sweeping. visit a childrens ward - i spent many years of my childhood in one most of the children were happy and smiling before and became seriously ill even dying....... yes it can't help being negative but saying i have caused it is nieve...... i do visualise and do chakra work and reiki. all this because of my illness. been doing it since 15 that is 22 years ago now. thanks for listening. hope i have helped people who may be like me and lurking at least. peace sweetsong. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: whitewolf [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 16:29 I was referring to 'normally healthy everyday people' (no offense intended to anybody) and how many of those with negative attitudes had days off work, or colds etc... compared to those with positive attitudes. I would stand by the idea that those individuals, however serious the illness, who are positive and happy in themselves live better lives than those who are negative. No doubt we will agree to disagree :) [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: sweetsong [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 17:06 " would stand by the idea that those individuals, however serious the illness, who are positive and happy in themselves live better lives than those who are negative." i agree with that but that isn#t how it sounded from dragonleady and your other post - sounded like she implied that negativity brought about illness. which it can excaserpate but so can all sorts of things (for example genetics). i had to have genetic counselling last year so i could tell my parents what they could pass on in information to possible suitors. i found out i would pass on my disease to children which i knew anyway really and made peace with that at a young age hard as it was but i had the tests to make sure and so i can make precautions. so in that case that is genes nothing to do with positivity. that was my point it would not be my babies fault it would be problematic genes like i got from my parents. and so would other disease possibly the same. and envioronment too. lots of things go into things like this. did not like the simplicity but maybe it is cuz we are on the net trying to communicate. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Blackhawk [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 18:28 I think the infolinks provided by WW above are quite illuminating, even for those who have seen the links between +ive / -ive thinking and illness. I am especially enamoured of the research of Dr Masaru Emoto, and the results of his experiments have been invaluable in proving links between not just +/-ive behaviour and thoughts, but actual words! SS, I understand illness and depression. I have witnessed terminal illness within my family, and experienced suicidal depression personally for over 12 years. The only way out for me was to break any ties of dependency - such a fight [for one's own soul] is a personal one, and as individuals we need to summon the strength of will and character to enter into what can be a long fight. Self-pity is a killer, as is the belief that the answer to our personal problems lie in another's hands. Paganism, as a belief system, is not an answer to the travails we face in life, but,[for some] is an expression of worship and wonder towards that which created and surrounds us in this life. Aspects of our chosen belief system may be used at times as 'armour' in our battles, whatever they may be, but it is WE who need to be the warriors, WE who need to take hold of our lives and destinies, and shape them... Blackhawk [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: zenwind [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 19:58 Dearest sweetsong, I do not believe any religion, spiritual path, psychological technique, healing ritual or medicine is a panacea - they can only ever be a guide. The only authority in your life is YOU. The true teacher is YOU. Nobody can tell you about YOUR life as it unfolds uniquely for you which is why conversations like this are SO hard especially on message boards. I have the idea that everything coming back at you today just doesn't make you feel understood. And really all we can do is hold that space for you where we listen....and it makes you think: well if they don't know then who the hell does know....YOU - you know that your experience is everything. I have experienced depression and did not want to get out of bed for weeks. I felt like a boat alone on the ocean that was slowly sinking while everyone else was swimming in the sea, having fun not even knowing how I felt. So I kind of know a bit about how things feel...or how they felt for me at least. I find life really painful sometimes and I also find it incredibly beautiful - like a balm surrounds me - friends, loved ones, my connectedness with mother earth. I look on it as my teacher, it teaches me how to respond, it helps me find the essence within me to take one step at at time and stop and smell the flowers. Like the lotus...look what emerges from all that mud (not quite appropriate for me as I think mud is beautiful but you get my drift). Grist for the mill. Nobody can know what it is like for you SS, we only have our own frames of reference from which to meet you. Is that our fault? No of course not.... but we are all trying to hear you and listen....I think we are trying really hard. Take care sweetsong and stick around. You know my e mail off list zenwind [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Dragonlady [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15/02/07 20:01 "thank you but i feel i need to express about my illness and not to be told i am negative or judged or told to pull my socks up. it is a part of me and a huge journey. some days i am negative but i try not to reject myself when i am. the whole of me needs to be embraced and honoured and loved. the lack of understanding of mental illness is everywhere of course why i expect it to be different here shows my naivity." And I don't particularly like to be told that I am patronising and judgemental when that is the very last thing I am, but I actually let that go. Sometimes people can get just a little fed up of someone constantly expressing about their illness, when they all have their own problems. As Whitewolf said, we shall also have to agree to disagree and I, for one, will say no more on this subject. Dragonlady [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: rae [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19/02/07 21:33 have come in here at late stage so really i know the meat of the conversation has gone but i just wanted to say that 1 - The Galdraheim coven is a well established coven thats been in existance since the 70s and some covens do 'advertise' that they have openings. 2 - A coven exists to teach the student/neophyte how to work magickaly as a wiccan as well as worship. If you want to celebrate the seasons and worship then moots, open circles, pagan groups etc are best. I always taught my coveners that magick is more personal even than sex, because you are opening your soul and psyche to another person. This is why the phrase 'in perfect love and perfect trust' is used. And this is why people with mental health problems are often unfortunately excluded. The actual processes involve deep inner work that can bring up the most painful as well as beautiful experiences and the teacher is accountable karmically as well as practically for the student.It can make someones symptoms worse - especially as to learn magickally one has to journey into the shadow/deep self and may come face to face with aspects of themselves they have managed to hide before. Im sorry that sweetsong has felt upset by this but there are good valid reasons for it, and a coven leader would not take the karmic responsibility for possibly making her condition worse. That is why most covens will not accept people with these types of illnesses. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: zenwind [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19/02/07 22:07 Hi, Nice post Rae. To draw parallels sweetsong (if you are lurking) so you do not think this is specific to wicca.....in certain traditions of buddhism, the cautions are similar. Especially something like tantra. My practice does not involve opening psychically to others but when I experience certain 'jhanas' as they are alluded to in buddhism, it can be quite frightening aswell as very joyful, and from my point of view is best undertaken with some kind of guidance or supportive community to check in with. A credible buddhist teacher for example that knew someone was experiencing mental health difficulties would not advise you undertake deep absortion types of meditation in terms of meditation practice but may advise certain other practices with careful supervision. And other aspects of spiritual community and practice would still be open to you as in pagan paths. I think this is common sense. You need support and care and responsible people around you so your heart is cradled and you remain safe. may you be happy and well.... peace zenwind [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: sweetsong [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20/02/07 9:28 yes thanks. i understand this now because these are orthopractic spiritual things. over the last week i have found i am interested in orthodoxy and not orthopraxy in terms of spirituality. thanks for keeping me in mind. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: heather [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20/02/07 10:33 <:-}<:-}<:-}<:-} I have good days, i have bad days. I can come here for love, i can come here for advice, i can even have a giggle with you lot :) My life is not perfect nor do i want it to be, i have had quite a rough journey so far but so much goodness to fill the bad away. I have learned that not everyone thinks the same way i do, the mental spectrum is so vast that no one can cover all of it that's why we have our lives....to share them with others, how boring if we all had the same story. Im glad for my Prozac, i'm glad for my family, im glad for my friends, i'm glad for my paganism whatever path i take at least i feel i know i'm going to get there but i'm enjoying the journey. Im just your average person, no degrees in anything but rich in the school of life. I feel i was led here in the first place to connect with all of you in some way, you have all enriched my life, thank you. I want to delete this post now because i think it sounds wacky but i'm not going to because i'm trying to express myself and i'm not very clever with words but wanted you all to know how alive i feel to be able to talk like this. That's the best thing about the garden, i know not everyone will agree with me....some may even say WTF????? i know that you will let me know either way and to have people in your life who can be your friend AND give you feedback is FAB. PHWEEW i'm done now, that was a waffle an a half! Don't really know what that was trying to say but i had to write it. Definitely the mad bird syndrome i think. Big hugs and bright blessings, love heather.xxxxx [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: heather [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20/02/07 21:46 It was too much wasn't it......i tried to delete it but i can't. Sorry. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: zenwind [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20/02/07 21:55 No it wasn't too much heather, banish the thought. It was beautiful. Thank you. ((((hugs)))) zenwind /\ [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: jade [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21/02/07 0:00 what do you mean wasnt too much. Wernt enough if you ask me. I like reading normal postings like that, we are all human after all. and that kinda made smile anyway. hope your doing well [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: whitewolf [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21/02/07 0:14 (((((hugs)))) Heather - never stop being YOU! :) [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Lilly from the Valley [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22/02/07 9:22 What a beautiful person you are Heather. Have faith in yourself honey - we all love you here and you can do no wrong in our eyes. Blessings Lil [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: heather [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22/02/07 12:50 (jumping up and down clapping hands with happiness) You all make me feel so good, thank you. You all have your own fabby qualities to share, I'm very lucky to have found y'all. BIG HUGS AND LOADS OF LOVE, BB, HEATHER.xxxxx [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |