Honesty and integrity in posting results at feisianna -- For the love of the dance

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Date Posted: Wed, Aug 22 2007, 13:16:27
Author: TheThinker (Wanted: honest opinions)
Subject:

Honesty and integrity in posting results at feisianna

Some questions have come to my mind after having driven eight hours to another feis in the "Deep South", only to be dissappointed once again by the results (After placing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in all of my dances at the last few feisianna, I only got one 4th place in only one, out of five dances at this "Deep South" feis). This was quite a blow to what I am used to placing, especially given the fact that there were even less competitors in my competitions at this particular feis than other recent feisianna in which I placed my usual. When the scores came in, all of the first places were given to dancers from schools WITHIN that particular region of the Southern Region (I am in the Southern Region as well, however, I am a few states away from the host school, therefore, I am not from a school WITHIN that specific area of the Southern Region.) I even overheard one of my competitors say that she got first place in the two dances where she needed the first places. One of those dances, I was almost sure I would place well, however, I didn't even place at all. This was a shock since I and others noticed the adjudicators' reactions when I danced. I say all of this to ask: Who takes the scores from the adjudicators' hands? And who is responsible for entering the scores into the computer (in this case, they used the software program where the results are printed out on paper and taped to the results wall)? Are these perhaps "feis moms and dads" from local and surrounding schools? How would I be guaranteed that the placements the adjudicator initially gave me are the same placements that show up on the printed results paper? For that matter, there can ALWAYS be an error, whether it is an intentional error or not. Right? So, after all the long, hard practices on my own, the expensive solo dress, and the expensive trip, I am now disappointed that I did so poorly at a feis where I had less competitors than I am used to, after placing very well at other recent feisianna. Has anyone else ever questioned the integrity of the people running the feisianna? Or should we all just trust everyone involved and never question things, even though we have worked so hard to get where we are? It just seems so strange that the last couple of years, I have tried out one or two feisianna in the summer that have been in the "Deep South". Every one of them has been the same disappointment for me, the same outcome (where I had just placed well at other feisianna, then I go down there, and can't even place with smaller competitions - and the same thing happens to others that have done the same thing from my school). I even wrote an email to the host school, but never got a response from them. Interesting. What are your thoughts? Does anyone else see the potential of human error at feisianna, whether intentional or just an honest mistake? And should we trust things when feis moms and dads are usually the ones voluteering to copy the actual scores from the adjudicators? Why can't we see the adjucator's raw score sheet? Am I alone in questioning these things? I just think there should be no question left in our minds about fairness and honesty. I do not want to be involved in a sport only to learn there are dishonest things going on behind the scenes. I am not accusing anyone, just questioning, because we don't know what goes on after our scores leave the adjudicators' hands. What do you think?

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Replies:

[> Is there just the possibility that although the numbers are smaller taht you are competing against dancers who may just be better than you. If it is happening at more than one feis in this particular area, this would be the most obvious answer. Though you may be one of the best dancers in your own immediate area, you may not be quite as good as the ones in this area. -- Work harder and you may see results improve. Uk ADCRG, Wed, Aug 22 2007, 14:03:36 [1]

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[> [> response -- TheThinker, Wed, Aug 22 2007, 14:36:40 [1]

The logical reason would seem that maybe those dancers are better in that area, or perhaps I had an "off" day at a feis. However, each time I travel to this particular area to feis (and I have been to several feisianna in this particular area over the past couple of summers), the same thing happens to me. Also, other students I know have had the same results. Some champion dancers I know that have travelled to many different areas to feis will NOT go to this particular area to feis because they know the results will be "off" from their usual. They have even told me not to waste my time going to feisianna in this particular area of the Southern Region (US). Is is improper to ask to see the adjudicators raw score? Why aren't the raw scores posted? Wouldn't this resolve any questions in competitors minds about integrity behind the scenes at feisianna?

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[> [> [> If this is the case I do not believe that the organisers and helpers will be changing the results, if they were found to do this they could be banned from being part of An Coimmission for life. It could be that they only employ adjudicators they know will like the style of the home dancers thus a heavy biased in adjudication that can seem to be wrong. I know some feisanna in USA seem to bring back many adjudicators year after year. Would be nice if they had to change the full panel each as we normally do in the UK. All I suggest you do is practise so hard that they cannot take away the prizes or cut your losses and dance elsewhere. -- Sorry to be of no real help., Wed, Aug 22 2007, 16:19:47 [1]

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[> My thoughts are that you are probably at best an average dancer. And with all average dancers, you will have some "on" days and some "off" days. And with most average dancers, they usually accept their placings and return home to practice and improve. They do not throw around childish accusations and look for excuses. My guess is that if your teacher knew you were posting such nonsense, you would be lokoing for a new school -- Now it's time to grow-up, Wed, Aug 22 2007, 19:45:09 [1]

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[> Most schools have styles and when they host a feis they tend to hire adj. with similar styles. If your school style is different, it is reasonable to assume you might not do as well. The question is, have you had these same adj. at other feiseanna and placed higher? If not, please don't blame the feis. Feis workers are too busy to be this devious. Work harder to improve or stop travelling to feiseanna in the South. -- Southern Belles can Dance, Wed, Aug 22 2007, 22:21:06 [1]

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[> While there is frequently data entry error there are usually quality control measures taken in the tabulations room to catch these such aas multiple people checking results entered against the handwritten results. So you would have to get an entire room to agree to falsify results and keep quiet about. Not gonna happen. There is also the possibility that the ADJ writes down a score in the wrong slot not corresponding to the dancer intended, writes down an incorrect competitor number, or ranks them different than the raw score would indicate. These are taken back to the ADJ for them to correct before posting. I suspect that your perfomance has more to do with travel, expectations and judges being hand picked by the host school to prefer their style than fraud or even human error. If you suspect human error ask your TCRG to request a copy of the adjudicators score sheet or for the hosting teacher to check the scores for your TCRG -- deep south, Thu, Aug 23 2007, 4:37:40 [1]

While a school would also honor your request to have the results double checked the courtesy would be extended more graciously to the TCRG.

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[> [> As a mom of a "deep south" dancer I find this post a bit offensive. My dd is in Prelim and "feishes" in Texas and the surrounding states. Let me tell you the quality and level of her competition are outstanding. There are some awesome dancers in the SR and especially the "deep south" (think Catie Foley). If you didn't do well, then you need to look to yourself as the cause. My dd got 6 firsts at a feis in November in OPW, when she went to the next feis in Jan she got one first. That's the way it goes. -- srmama, Thu, Aug 23 2007, 17:25:51 [1]

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[> Errors DO happen, but I would never think they were intentional. Have seen competitor numbers transposed on the posters, 2nd & 3rd places flip-flopped, and DD was not announced as placing when she had. ALL were simply inadvertent mistakes by VOLUNTEERS and were corrected promptly when I politely drew their attention to it. -- Honesty abounds, Fri, Aug 24 2007, 16:13:13 [1]

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[> [> The poster suffers from "SR Entitlement Syndrome". Too many dancers from the other regions come down to the SR and just expect that they will beat all these "yahoos" down in the "deep south". I know you state you are in the SR but Maryland is in the SR so those dancers probably do a lot of feiseanna in the MAR and MW too. I think even some of our more northern SR members expect that if they go to TX, LA, OK, or ARK they will be guaranteed 1sts. Sorry to burst your bubble but that just isn't always true. The problem wasn't with the tabulators, the SR, or cheating. The problem was with YOU on the DAY of this particular feis. Go home, practice and then try again. The SR has some great dancers and you will have to EARN it just like any other region. -- enc, Fri, Aug 24 2007, 17:46:03 [1]

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[> To the OP: I think some of these responses are a bit harsh. I don't think it's out of order to question the status quo from time to time. If anyone truly believes there has never been any favouritism, wheeling and dealing, scratching one-another's backs, or just plain cheating going on in ID, then they're living in cloud-cuckoo-land! Just see the comments on these message boards after almost every major, with all sorts of accusations flying round. Of course it doesn't prove anything, but -- Outsider, Sat, Aug 25 2007, 2:21:51 [1]

there's no smoke without fire. I'm not saying the best thing to do is to just wildly accuse anyone of foul play, but there should always be room for rational questioning. If people are afraid of that, then perhaps they have got something to hide. It is up to feis organisers and adjudicators to demonstrate that all is squeaky clean, then no one can complain. What indeed is wrong with the raw marks sheet of every adjudicator being available? We pay way too much money in this game to blindly accept that everything is always perfect and beyond reproach! However, OP, I think from a practical point of view, the best course of action is to talk to your TC about your concerns. He/she is the best person to assess the problem and deal with it. And indeed it is no harm at all to go back and practice your butt off. You will get the placings you deserve more often than not. And it is always harder for anyone to ignore real excellence. No one wants to look that stupid.

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[> [> Reply -- TheThinker, Sat, Aug 25 2007, 23:23:49 [1]

Thank you for seeing and appreciating my point. You seem to be one of the few that read my post with a level head.

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