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[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, [5], 6 ]

• 2) The post below referring to a woman's monthly was intended as sarcasm - directed at earlier comments stereotyping male testosterone-dominated thoughts. I was not making fun of anything but stereotypes. Sorry some seemed to take things so seriously. (NT) -- gumtree, 00:55:37 07/14/01 Sat
• 3) I dont hate anyone. Usually, its an effort for me to work up mild dislike, and (as my wife will attest) a lot of (negative) effort is not something Im particularly good at. I participated in one of the first Gay Pride parades in San Francisco, because of some good friends. No, I am not gay. My brother-in-law is gay. At a company I used to work for, my best "office friend" was a woman who was (secretly) lesbian (things like that dont go over too well with the military). I have no problem with any "sexual preference" as long as you dont hurt anyone, dont try it with kids, and dont try to persuade me to join in - Im married, and that's that. (NT) -- gumtree, 01:08:31 07/14/01 Sat
• 4) Trans-gender, transvestite, whatever. Yes, I know the difference. Mr. Izzard has done an incredible thing - taken something that has been "in the closet" in western society for - well, a long time - and made it sort of "so what"? A good friend of mine, a fellow antique dealer has a photo postcard from the late 1800s depicting several fellows dressed in drag. Want a peek? I think he has it on eBay...let me know and I'll find out. But - you think this is NEW? Get real. "Transgender" has only been a "category" (there we go with the little boxes again) since modern surgery has been capable of making convincing changes. Long ago, tho (history major comes out) - there were males who had their naughty bits removed. Mozart wrote singing parts for "Castrato"...think about it. Henri III of France (1500s) and courtiers all dressed as whores and visited the "bad" parts of Paris. Seems they had great fun. Shocking? No, HUMAN. (NT) -- gumtree, 01:23:13 07/14/01 Sat
  • Cool Gum did you fix Voy Forums? Yes I think Eddie has moved the boundary a bit on the gender thing but it was moving anyway. Androgeny is in, the young are mixing it up in fashion and in attitude. That is, the young in the big cities and college oriented areas, we still have the bible belt and all that. But the whole mixing and mingling is happening naturally, and I think all the categories are losing their forbidden auras and becoming more accepted. HEy it's the new millenium! (NT) -- spoot, 02:14:16 07/14/01 Sat
    • Yeah, I just kept beating on the door, and finally they let me in...*G* - while there's a lot of "fashionable" playing about going on, I cant help but wonder what the fuss is all about. If you want to shag someone, then make sure that you have their cooperation, and that you are being honorable. Where's the fuss? (NT) -- gumtree, 02:21:58 07/14/01 Sat
• 5) Finally, and most controversially - while we like to think genetics are totally deterministic, I give you - my lovely Redhead's two sisters, twins. One is all Laura Ashley, the other t-shirt and jeans. Genetically, mirror image. Personality, INDIVIDUALS - resulting from each having their own unique experiences. We are, as a species, 99.5% born as male or female gender characteristics. By these gender characteristics, my brother-in-law could father a child - but he's much more likely to have kittens. Personality is the root of our decisions. I can ascribe aspects of my personality to either my father or my mother - and some just ME. Experiences. I didnt grow up during the Great Depression. I didnt live in London during the Blitz. and so on, and so forth. While genetics gives us sex characterisitics, it doesnt determine WHO WE ARE. Your experience program does that. Well, thats what I think, anyways. (NT) -- gumtree, 02:13:55 07/14/01 Sat
  • hey the air's all cleared now, thanks Gum! I wonder how many Izzardites were wandering about, in a dither, lost without their webchats! I don't think we can ever unravel the mystery of what we are made of. My father once said all of existence is all a dog's dream. (NT) -- spoot, 02:27:58 07/14/01 Sat
    • I was lost *sob* - but now I are here!!!! Howya been? (NT) -- gumtree (supposing he did beat it into the ground a bit...), 02:32:05 07/14/01 Sat
      • me, oh I've been pretty busy and seem to be juggling lots of stuff in my life. You're up late tonight! (NT) -- spoot, 02:34:47 07/14/01 Sat
        • Yes - and its been noticed, too...I have been instructed that Ive been too long on the computer...*G* (NT) -- gumtree, 02:37:52 07/14/01 Sat
          • Are you going to beddy bye then? Does your mate get irritated? Mine does, but tries to be patient, tries really hard (NT) -- spoot, 02:41:19 07/14/01 Sat
            • Im off for the evening -sorry, but I have been summoned by She Who Must Be Obeyed...(a stolen line....) gnite, Spoot! All the best... (NT) -- gumtree, 02:45:11 07/14/01 Sat
              • g'night! Sweet dreams! (NT) -- spoot, 02:51:37 07/14/01 Sat
  • ..and on the flip side of that: my best friend Andy is gay. His brother is gay. His MOTHER is gay (well, apparently she wasn't gay at least twice in her life...nyuk nyuk) and only the father is straight. The parents are, of course, divorced now but when you see this you can't help but think genetics had some hand in this. I definitely think it's a mix of genetics and environment. If I could be a little personal for a moment, as far as I know I'm the only one in my family and extended family that's queer (although that doesn't really mean anything since someone could be in the closet). Growing up, I remember my 'Aunt Linda' (cousin of a cousin twice removed, etc.) who was openly gay and we immediately clicked. I was her favorite, etc. etc. and I had to be only 5-7 years old. What's up with that? Did she know something I didn't know?? Yet, that's stayed with me all these years and the memory of hearing about her being gay and immeditely being drawn to her yet I didn't know why. (NT) -- lyn, 12:59:38 07/14/01 Sat
  • Anyhoo, living in SF made it much easier to come out and to find support among friends and when I did come out it was a party and a celebration (literally, I came out at my office Xmas party). I was welcomed by all the gay employees and my straight friends as well. It was pretty cool...when I told my family, they were incredibly loving and supportive even my parents who are devout catholics, older, immigrants from the Philippines, etc. Okay, I've lost my point here. And I'm too lazy to scroll back. Ah yes, I think in my personal case it was definitely a mix of genetics and environment and I'm sure it's different for everybody else...was that my point? I hope you can glean some useful information from this...hahaha (NT) -- lyn, 13:00:53 07/14/01 Sat
    • Lyn you're not only gay but your mind is a sieve! Nyuck nyuck! No yeah, so many alternative peoples say they just felt it in their bones from first memory and that's why they say it must be genetic. But then others are sort of indeterminate and only come out later so perhaps it emerges later. I dunno, I just know that if you feel it in your bones, then you cannot deny it, you gotta go with it, and people who say that it is not the natural way are people who don't understand nature. (NT) -- spoot with Mother Nature costume on, 13:35:45 07/14/01 Sat
      • heehee....yeah, I have the attention span of a 5 year old which make me the perfect playmate for my nephew. I was just talking to Bin about how interesting it is to look back in your life and to see 'signs' that were clearly there but back then you had no idea. Totally subconscious...hey, does this mean gaydar is genetic too? (NT) -- lyn, 14:28:02 07/14/01 Sat
        • I dunno, maybe it's part of the paranormal. Or it's pheromones? What do pheromones smell like? Whatever it is, that antenna for sex vibes is something I'm pretty clueless about. i walk around in a fog and people have to tell me that somebody was giving me the eye. I'm always "huh?" (NT) -- spoot going outside, it's a gorgeous day in LA!, 15:10:25 07/14/01 Sat
          • they smell "nice", of course.....HA! (NT) -- BZC just came in for it's too bloody hot now, 15:21:45 07/14/01 Sat
    • great reply lyn, I've always felt that alot of this stuff is mostly genetic and though environment may determine a bit when someone "comes out", alot of it may be the timing of the person recognizing who they truly are, and then the tremendous courage to be who they are in a society that may not want to accept them. I have a gay male mormon friend that I grew up with that is so repressed by his religion that he will never come out, but he lives a life of personal hell because of it. He can't face who he really is, but it's obviousl to us around him. It's quite tragic really. I have tremendous respect for those that stand up for what they are or believe whatever it is, that takes guts. (NT) -- BZC, 15:16:45 07/14/01 Sat
      • I agree - thats quite sad. And yet another example of the wonderful world that organized religion has brought us. (NT) -- gumtree, 18:07:02 07/14/01 Sat
        • yes it always interests me how some people find so much comfort in religion, where I didn't feel free until I left those bonds behind in high school(I was raised presbyterian). So many, many people have died in religious wars, ironic it seems. (NT) -- BZC, 18:24:23 07/14/01 Sat
          • Wars? Oh, my yes...and hangings, and burnings, and executions, and gas chambers...LOADS of fun...I were sort of raised as a Friend (Quakers) - had no problem with it until one day I was told "You MUST believe THIS" and I said "Erm, nooo..." and I remain unrepentant. Certainly freed up Sundays.... (NT) -- gumtree, 18:32:05 07/14/01 Sat
            • yes it was funny but I was sent to a "christian convention" in hopes it would "turn me around" after the donut bribes after church quit working.....well I guess the "turn" wasn't what everyone hoped for, but it was a turning point indeed....ah yes sundays, I worship my cats and landscapes. (NT) -- BZC always been a subtle wild child, 19:32:04 07/14/01 Sat
• Fantastic! Amazin! Thanks Lyn - interesting perspective. i suppose what Im trying to say is that "I DONT KNOW" - but I cant believe in a deterministic approach to anything human - genetics may give us merely the vessel into which everything is poured (searching for a picture) - while each expereience is unique and only occurs to that person, the vessel is shaped in certain ways, and given the right input, will "react" with a behavior - which is in turn modified by other sets of experiences, and other "shapes" in the vessel. Am I drifitng off too far? I can confuse myself, sometimes.... (NT) -- gumtree, 17:11:23 07/14/01 Sat
  • Intriguing - go to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genemap99/ - see how complex all this is??? (NT) -- gumtree, 18:01:06 07/14/01 Sat
  • I have to say, I LOVE the confused,drifting gumtree searching with your own self, not so much attention to refernces. But it's all interest -arresting (NT) -- Dorene, 04:29:09 07/15/01 Sun