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05 /20/ 26, 12:09amLogin ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 123456[7]8910 ]
Subject: 500,000 miles a myth?


Author:
Ray Elliott
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Date Posted: 08/ 24/ 03, 5:33pm

I am considering buying a 36'SP, but after reading the billboard, it seems that even though most (all) of the used Bluebirds have less than 500,000 miles on them, about half of those advertised mention new or overhauled engines. If so many of them fail to reach even 150,000 miles, what is the reason? Harvey's column indicates that with good care, they should go 500,000 miles. What is the problem (or problems) that are most often the reason for not getting more miles before an overhaul is required? One owner mentioned a "dry" start as the reason for failure. What is a dry start?

Ray

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: 500,000 miles a myth?


Author:
Gerry McGowan
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Date Posted: 11/ 11/ 03, 6:17pm

The Cat 3208 engine used in the SP36 and FC35,33,31 is a 100,000 mile or so engine. Very expensive maintainence is required to exceed this figure. It also requires oil changes at every 5000 miles or less. It cannot be easily rebuilt as it uses no cylinder liners. Its one saving grace is that it is cheap and remanufactured engines are available for around $7000 (several year ago). It is considered a disposable commodity.

The long lived engines are the 6V92 and 8V92 Detroit Diesels used in the PT40 models. These are 300-500,000 mile engines when maintained and used regularly. They are very popular in the trucking industry and these figures are not picked out of thin air. The biggest problem with all Bluebirds is lack of use. Letting an engine sit for 11 months a year does not contribute to long life. 20 year old engines with 60,000 miles on them are not unusual in Bluebirds. These will probably not last 100 years to reach 300,000 miles.

I like the SP36, but the Cat 3208 is not a feature to make it desirable. Having had a FC35 and a PT40, I will take my PT40 with its 6V92 every time.

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[> Subject: Re: 500,000 miles a myth?


Author:
Jeff Miller
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Date Posted: 11/ 12/ 03, 6:58am

I disagree strongly with Mr. McGowan's opinion, and have driven several at well over the 100,000mile mark which were healthy and a fraction of the maintenance of the DD 92-series. There are many Cat 3208 turbos out there with more than 200,000miles and lots of life left, and lots of DD 92-series engines out there that died long before 100,000miles, for the same reason being neglect.
It is my experience that the 3208 Cat does not die, it is killed. It is however unusual to find a motorhome with over 250,000miles on an original engine, Wanderlodge or not.
In addition to being more efficient and cheaper to run and maintain, the 2800rpm 3208 has a more useable power band than the 2100rpm DD engine and therefore mates well to its 5-speed automatic.
Both engines need the same type of maintenance to live long lives, it just costs much more to keep the 92-series going than it does the 3208 and I don't feel like putting that many Iraqis through college.
Having had several 3208 Cats, 210hp, 250hp, and 300hp, they are great engines for motorhome use and will last hundreds of thousands if properly maintained. They should be driven regularly as should any engine, the oil and coolant must be properly maintained, and a diesel can not be driven without risking damage if it has a problem with oil, coolant, fuel, etc.
The 3208 can easily be rebuilt, main and rod bearings can be replaced without removing the engine and parts are around $250 from Caterpillar. Cylinder damage is an out-of-frame job though and sleeves are available, the more economic repair if you damage a cylinder however is to buy a remanufactured engine once the old engine is out.
The main killers of either engine would be:
Insufficient coolant or improper coolant (overheating, cavitation pitting, or corrosion) including running with a burst hose.
Inadequate Oil.
Running with a bad injector: Unlike the DD engine, the 3208 can run with one "dry" cylinder without damage, but an overfueling injector will overheat a cylinder in either engine and eventually destroy the piston/cylinder.
Abuse: Turning up the governor to overspin, turning up the rack to overfuel, or general hard-running when cold and lugging will certainly also shorten the life.

Preventative maintenance in a diesel includes periodic valve adjustments, a good time to have the injectors checked, have the timing and governor settings checked, and if smoke or low power is a problem having the rack set is also a good idea. I also believe in periodic oil analyses, the trend from these analyses will help to predict future maintenance.

On the wanderlodge.org website with about 800 members at the time, we did a survey into how many owners had suffered catastrophic failures of the 3208. We had around a dozen failures reported, the most common being fuel system problems in coaches which were left un-used for long periods (years in some cases).

Feel free to contact the owners on the wanderlodge.org website with the same question, we are almost 1,000members strong at this point and should be able to give a statistically significant number of responses. More important will be the previous owners' maintenance and the condition of the engine.

For me, I will continue to recommend the 3208Ta powered Wanderlodges as I feel strongly that they are more economical to own and operate if you don't need the additional power of the 8V92 engine. For full-timers who want or need the additional space of the tag-axle models, the additional cost of the big DD is necessary.

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[> Subject: Re: 500,000 miles a myth?


Author:
Bob Lawrence
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Date Posted: 11/ 14/ 03, 6:25pm

We are the 4th owner of our 84 Pt36. I bought it over the internet after seeing a ton of pics and the fact the bird had a new DD6V92 engine. The bird had only 123,000 miles on it when the engine was replaced. Turns out the previous owner had more money than brains. He blew a radiator hose, the bells and whistles on the dash went off and he thought that meant that he had to take it in for service soon. $20,000 later, he sold it to me. Methinks a lot of these problems are the fault of the owner, not the fact the engine has a problem at 100k miles.

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[> Subject: Re: 500,000 miles a myth?


Author:
Harvey Lawrence
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Date Posted: 11/ 18/ 03, 9:32am

I do not agree that the 3208 cat is a 100,000 mile engine or that it is all that expensive to take care of. I had one. If the valves are adjusted along with the timing etc. every 40,000 miles and the oil and filters changed the engine should easily do well over 200,000, at which time it would be smart to do a lower end bearing replacement ($1500)
and she would be ready for another 200,000. Most of the engines, both 3208 cat and 6V92 8V92 Detroits that need rebuilding or replacing are the fault of human mistakes and screw ups or just plain neglect.My 6V92 was destroyed by a mechanic who put too much oil in it when changing the oil. The engine began running on the crankcase oil and with nothing to stop it it ran away and blew up. Both the detroits and the cats are darn good engines, too bad they dont have darn good humans to care for them.
Harvey

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