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Subject: fuel exits through muffler


Author:
John Harvey Tanglao
[Edit]

Date Posted: 04/ 23/ 07, 7:51pm

PLEASE HELP! I have a caterpillar 3208t engine but when it is running the fuel exits through the muffler. hope someone can give me answer to my problem

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Subject: Collision Repair


Author:
Mike Harris
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 21/ 06, 6:05am

Would like to let people know that at SagonRv Supercenter,we have certified painters for Wonderlodge motor homes. We are able to rebuild, match paint, & do custom fabrication work to your specs. You can email us pictures and a phone# and we will return your call. Yet another option for Wonderlodge owners.

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Subject: Model letters


Author:
Mark Maass
[Edit]

Date Posted: 01/ 15/ 04, 7:38pm

As I research info about different models, is there a source somewhere that I can learn the different model letters, ie. FC, BM, SP. What do they and any others that exist mean? Does anyone know where I can get a list?

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[> Subject: Re: Model letters


Author:
Kathy
[Edit]

Date Posted: 01/ 15/ 04, 7:38pm

Check the history page on this site. It has lots of information just under the picture at the top of the page.

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Subject: Panelfold door handle/latch


Author:
Ron
[Edit]

Date Posted: 01/ 14/ 04, 7:57am

I have a 1984 35' wanderlodge. The door handle on the panelfold door between the dinning area and sleeping area broke. I contacted panelfold and described it to them. I asked them if they wanted digital photos and they did not. They ended up sending me the wrong type of handle. DOes anyone know another source for these handles or perhaps the handle model I might need.

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Subject: 40 footer questions


Author:
Bruce
[Edit]

Date Posted: 01/ 12/ 04, 8:10am

We have owned a 1977 & 1987 FC35 and enjoyed both. Now want to move up to a widebody 40footer. $100k about our limit, which I'm guessing puts me in a '91 or older. Does anyone have experience/comments on the following:

Did WB start in 1988 - all units made?
When did 5 speed tranny start? Are they worth the extra over an older 4 speed?
While both my FC35's had a screen door - I have never seen one on the front entry, 40 fters. Does anyone do this as an aftermarket option?
Any peculiarities on these years that one should know about - and either avoid or search for?

All comments are appreciated.
Thank You.

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[> Subject: changes in a bird


Author:
Harvey lawrence
[Edit]

Date Posted: 01/ 12/ 04, 8:10am

although you might find the extra width a pleasure for living purposes, it is an additional thing you must carefully watch while driving,Especially in construction ares.
If you will go to the History pages on this net you can find the answers to most of your questions concerning tranny gears etc.
Harv

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Subject: Heater Blower Motor


Author:
Lucas Willemse
[Edit]

Date Posted: 01/ 5/ 04, 11:42am

I have a 1980 FC35, the heater blower motor and fan for one side is vibrating badly, I have checked the unit and the fan is loose on the hub. Is this 2 speed motor and or fan available?
Thank You

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Subject: Dingy Recommendation


Author:
Bill Schmitt
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12/ 27/ 03, 8:02am

I have bought my first coach, a 1989 36SP.

I know realize that I cannot tow my 02 2WD Yukon without going with a transmission disconnect.

What experiences do you have with towed vehicles. I am currently looking at a Hundayi (sp) Santa Fe, CRV, Honda Pilot and Chev 4 WD Trailerblazer. We will be traveling with a Lab and a Doberman, so we need to transport dog crates in the towed vehicle.

Any advice and guidance will be greatly appreciated.

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[> Subject: Re: Dingy Recommendation


Author:
George Witt
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 20/ 03, 3:41pm

Honda has their own transmission design. Honda automatic transmissions can be towed safely with a little knowledge and some special procedures. This makes them a favorite toad. All you need is a towbar.
I've specialized in Honda cars for over 20 years and have my own shop.
www.georgewitt.com
Hope this helps.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Dingy Recommendation


Author:
Dave and Laurie
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12/ 27/ 03, 8:02am

What model Honda (s) do you suggest. We just purchased a 33'FC. We are just starting to look into this. Any other info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave

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[> Subject: Re: Dingy Recommendation


Author:
Jim Scoggins
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12/ 9/ 03, 11:55am

Take a close look at Jeep Cherokee.
Easy to tow, connect and disconnect.
Should be enough room enternally for your dog boxes.



Regards
Jim Scoggins
1986 PT40
1991 Jeep Wrangler

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[> Subject: Re: Dingy Recommendation


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 12/ 10/ 03, 4:37pm

Considering what it costs to trade vehicles, it is probably cheaper to have a drive shaft disconnect installed and you get to keep your Yukon. A fair bit of weight, there are lighter vehicles, but the SP will do it. You are probably well advised to buy towed-vehicle brakes also with a breakaway, and a heavy-duty towbar such as the Roadmaster Blackhawk (8,000lbs cap.).

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Subject: 500,000 miles a myth?


Author:
Ray Elliott
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 18/ 03, 9:32am

I am considering buying a 36'SP, but after reading the billboard, it seems that even though most (all) of the used Bluebirds have less than 500,000 miles on them, about half of those advertised mention new or overhauled engines. If so many of them fail to reach even 150,000 miles, what is the reason? Harvey's column indicates that with good care, they should go 500,000 miles. What is the problem (or problems) that are most often the reason for not getting more miles before an overhaul is required? One owner mentioned a "dry" start as the reason for failure. What is a dry start?

Ray

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[> Subject: Re: 500,000 miles a myth?


Author:
Gerry McGowan
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 11/ 03, 6:17pm

The Cat 3208 engine used in the SP36 and FC35,33,31 is a 100,000 mile or so engine. Very expensive maintainence is required to exceed this figure. It also requires oil changes at every 5000 miles or less. It cannot be easily rebuilt as it uses no cylinder liners. Its one saving grace is that it is cheap and remanufactured engines are available for around $7000 (several year ago). It is considered a disposable commodity.

The long lived engines are the 6V92 and 8V92 Detroit Diesels used in the PT40 models. These are 300-500,000 mile engines when maintained and used regularly. They are very popular in the trucking industry and these figures are not picked out of thin air. The biggest problem with all Bluebirds is lack of use. Letting an engine sit for 11 months a year does not contribute to long life. 20 year old engines with 60,000 miles on them are not unusual in Bluebirds. These will probably not last 100 years to reach 300,000 miles.

I like the SP36, but the Cat 3208 is not a feature to make it desirable. Having had a FC35 and a PT40, I will take my PT40 with its 6V92 every time.

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[> Subject: Re: 500,000 miles a myth?


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 12/ 03, 6:58am

I disagree strongly with Mr. McGowan's opinion, and have driven several at well over the 100,000mile mark which were healthy and a fraction of the maintenance of the DD 92-series. There are many Cat 3208 turbos out there with more than 200,000miles and lots of life left, and lots of DD 92-series engines out there that died long before 100,000miles, for the same reason being neglect.
It is my experience that the 3208 Cat does not die, it is killed. It is however unusual to find a motorhome with over 250,000miles on an original engine, Wanderlodge or not.
In addition to being more efficient and cheaper to run and maintain, the 2800rpm 3208 has a more useable power band than the 2100rpm DD engine and therefore mates well to its 5-speed automatic.
Both engines need the same type of maintenance to live long lives, it just costs much more to keep the 92-series going than it does the 3208 and I don't feel like putting that many Iraqis through college.
Having had several 3208 Cats, 210hp, 250hp, and 300hp, they are great engines for motorhome use and will last hundreds of thousands if properly maintained. They should be driven regularly as should any engine, the oil and coolant must be properly maintained, and a diesel can not be driven without risking damage if it has a problem with oil, coolant, fuel, etc.
The 3208 can easily be rebuilt, main and rod bearings can be replaced without removing the engine and parts are around $250 from Caterpillar. Cylinder damage is an out-of-frame job though and sleeves are available, the more economic repair if you damage a cylinder however is to buy a remanufactured engine once the old engine is out.
The main killers of either engine would be:
Insufficient coolant or improper coolant (overheating, cavitation pitting, or corrosion) including running with a burst hose.
Inadequate Oil.
Running with a bad injector: Unlike the DD engine, the 3208 can run with one "dry" cylinder without damage, but an overfueling injector will overheat a cylinder in either engine and eventually destroy the piston/cylinder.
Abuse: Turning up the governor to overspin, turning up the rack to overfuel, or general hard-running when cold and lugging will certainly also shorten the life.

Preventative maintenance in a diesel includes periodic valve adjustments, a good time to have the injectors checked, have the timing and governor settings checked, and if smoke or low power is a problem having the rack set is also a good idea. I also believe in periodic oil analyses, the trend from these analyses will help to predict future maintenance.

On the wanderlodge.org website with about 800 members at the time, we did a survey into how many owners had suffered catastrophic failures of the 3208. We had around a dozen failures reported, the most common being fuel system problems in coaches which were left un-used for long periods (years in some cases).

Feel free to contact the owners on the wanderlodge.org website with the same question, we are almost 1,000members strong at this point and should be able to give a statistically significant number of responses. More important will be the previous owners' maintenance and the condition of the engine.

For me, I will continue to recommend the 3208Ta powered Wanderlodges as I feel strongly that they are more economical to own and operate if you don't need the additional power of the 8V92 engine. For full-timers who want or need the additional space of the tag-axle models, the additional cost of the big DD is necessary.

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[> Subject: Re: 500,000 miles a myth?


Author:
Bob Lawrence
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 14/ 03, 6:25pm

We are the 4th owner of our 84 Pt36. I bought it over the internet after seeing a ton of pics and the fact the bird had a new DD6V92 engine. The bird had only 123,000 miles on it when the engine was replaced. Turns out the previous owner had more money than brains. He blew a radiator hose, the bells and whistles on the dash went off and he thought that meant that he had to take it in for service soon. $20,000 later, he sold it to me. Methinks a lot of these problems are the fault of the owner, not the fact the engine has a problem at 100k miles.

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[> Subject: Re: 500,000 miles a myth?


Author:
Harvey Lawrence
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 18/ 03, 9:32am

I do not agree that the 3208 cat is a 100,000 mile engine or that it is all that expensive to take care of. I had one. If the valves are adjusted along with the timing etc. every 40,000 miles and the oil and filters changed the engine should easily do well over 200,000, at which time it would be smart to do a lower end bearing replacement ($1500)
and she would be ready for another 200,000. Most of the engines, both 3208 cat and 6V92 8V92 Detroits that need rebuilding or replacing are the fault of human mistakes and screw ups or just plain neglect.My 6V92 was destroyed by a mechanic who put too much oil in it when changing the oil. The engine began running on the crankcase oil and with nothing to stop it it ran away and blew up. Both the detroits and the cats are darn good engines, too bad they dont have darn good humans to care for them.
Harvey

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Subject: Rear Springs


Author:
Gene Chaude
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 14/ 03, 3:06pm

Hello, I have a 1977 33'FC. I just put a new set of tires on the rear and got a good look at the rear springs. To my surprise they have actually rolled over and gone negative. My parts manual says the springs should be 11 leaf, but the installed springs are 13 leaf. I contacted BB there is a 13 leaf and a 15 leaf spring available. We did the front springs a couple of years ago ( 13 leaf ), and the rears on the bus are about 8 years old. Anyone else been down this road. Which spring are you running? why? and what are your results. Thanks Gene Chaude

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Subject: Interior Vinyl


Author:
Biff
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 6/ 03, 10:07pm

I have a 1982 FC Wanderlodge. Have done alot of major mechanical stuff on the old Bird in the last two years, including a major motor overhaul..Am presently, redoing the interior. Have cut down and reupholstered the dinette to make more room(as previously suggested in this forum)..ripped out the carpet, replacing with Pergo wood laminate(with insulating foam between for noise reduction)..installed ceramic and new toliet in the sidebath..all this for starters..my question to the group has to do with the vinyl wall covering (grooved) that covers interior sidewalls and ceilings..has anyone any experience in covering or painting these surfaces???..I'd like to change the color(s) prior to having the couch and chairs redone in the LR..Any suggestions appreciated..Many thanks for all the help this forum has been in the past..Have gotten many great ideas from the membership..

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[> Subject: Re: Interior Vinyl


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 31/ 03, 1:34pm

The interior vinyl can be dyed, look here:
http://store.yahoo.com/yourautotrim-store/semdye.html
There is a technique, not difficult to master though. I have done several dashboards, seats, booth, etc. at this point and consider it very durable on vinyl.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Interior Vinyl


Author:
Biff
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 31/ 03, 2:45pm

Thanks Jeff..I'll check out the site..any other suggestions appreciated.

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[> Subject: Re: Interior Vinyl


Author:
Steve Anderson
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 1/ 03, 8:24am

Biff,
I am one of those that was dis-satisfied with the configuration of the original dinette. Last year we removed most of the original and made a table/chair setup that works better for us. In addition, the vinyl in our dinette was beyond the cleanup or minor repair stage. We replaced the wall covering with short nap commercial grade carpet material. This covering method is difficult. Even the thinnest most pliable of carpeting is difficult to "tuck in" around the windows and door. The big "but" here is positive though. We are very satisfied with the results. The carpet material allows for color variation, texture variation, allows the removal of the plastic retaining strips, and is warmer than the cool vinyl.
Previous owners of this coach had made some cabinette and table changes in the salon. Unfortunately not all of their handiwork was less than professional. As a result, the curbside wall vinyl has suffered and is unsightly (not everyone is as critical as myself, but I am the one that has to look at it every day.)I am in the process of replacing the curbside wall covering at this time. This proceedure is not one everyone is interested in as there are many who want to retain their coaches "original". I am less of a purist, and although I love the quality and workmanship of my bird there are a lot of things that were done in 1979 that can be done better nowdays. If you are interested in technique let me know and we can continue this off line.


Steve Anderson
79 FC 35
Poulsbo, Wa

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[> [> Subject: Re: Interior Vinyl


Author:
Biff
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 6/ 03, 10:07pm

Steve,
I am interested in your process..like you, I am not a purist in the strict sense of the word..my e-mail addy is travelinbiff2000@yahoo.com..I see you are in Poulsboro, I am in Woodland..let's chat !!

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Subject: SERIAL NUMBER VIN


Author:
TOM DRESSLER
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 6/ 03, 7:54pm

OTHER THAN WINDSHIELD AREA DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO FIND THE VIN SERIAL NUMBER ON A 1975 FC35? THANKS,TOM

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[> Subject: Re: SERIAL NUMBER VIN


Author:
Steve Anderson
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 28/ 03, 9:18am

Tom,
There should be a coach information plate on the bulkhead, facing outward, just above the hinges for the doghouse cover. Simply lift up and out, the tray between the driver and passenger seats. Included on this plate, in addition to the VIN number, should be the BB coach/chassis number, the front and rear axle, and brake shoe information.

Steve Anderson
79 FC 35
Poulsbo, Wa.

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[> Subject: Re: SERIAL NUMBER VIN


Author:
P Savoy
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 4/ 03, 10:23am

Get the vin # off the title. If you don't have a title get a duplicate title by using your license plate number in the state it was issued. Just a thought , hope it helps.

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[> Subject: Re: SERIAL NUMBER VIN


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 6/ 03, 7:54pm

You won't find a 17-character VIN in your '75, BlueBird didn't assign them back then. The body number is forward of the engine-cover table above the doghouse hinges, there is another identification plate on the left side of the steering column base with capacity information I believe. BlueBird's VIN in later years began with 1BB and ended with the body number (without the F prefix) and some states require you to make up the rest, you can consult:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/VIN/bluebird.html
if you need to make one up to generally fit the BlueBird VIN.

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Subject: Ford gas engine 535 cu in 1975 Bluebird Wanderlodge


Author:
P Savoy
[Edit]

Date Posted: 11/ 4/ 03, 10:38am

Anyone using a Ford 535 cu in gas engine in thier Bluebird???? I am in need of the correct timing mark setting and points setting and plug gap. I have tuned my engine by ear and i get about 10 mpg in Louisiana. However it sometimes sputters on on take off ( I have to sort of pump it a bit to get the rpms up fast).

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Subject: Wheelbase


Author:
Matt
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 30/ 03, 6:20pm

Hello all. I was hoping someone could provide insight on the smaller (less then 50%) wheelbase on the older (mid-80's FC BBs. I continue to debate what coach I want, and one of the options is a mid-1980s FC with the 250hp Cats. The RVorg and others have told me anything less then 52% wheelbase ration can be dangerous. Any thoughts from those who have owner a multitude of wheelbases? I appreciate the input.

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[> Subject: Re: Wheelbase


Author:
Matt
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 28/ 03, 9:01pm

Forgot to mention the coachs I have been looking at are the 31-33 footers...thanks again,
Matt

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[> Subject: Re: Wheelbase


Author:
Harvey Lawrence
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 29/ 03, 9:27am

Matt
May I respectfully suggest that your research into wheel bases on Blue Birds is a waste of time as they are anything but dangerous! oh In what way are you afrid of wheel bases being dangerous? Too short a turning Radius?too long a tail overhang? I am curious.
The Mid 80's FC 31,33,and 35 ft. bluebirds are very nice units and they ride well because of the air bag suspension.
and their cost is moderate, usually in the 30 to 40 K range.
Harvey Lawrence

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[> Subject: Re: Wheelbase - Length Myth


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 30/ 03, 4:55pm

For starters, I suggest you go here:
http://www.motorhomereviewonline.com/wheelbase_length.htm
to read a more objective opinion about length-wheelbase.
I have had an FC31 which is both the shortest wheelbase and the smallest percentage wheelbase (52%). I currently have my 4th Wanderlodge, and have driven many others.
To say that the Wanderlodge is more stable than the "sticks-n-staples" motorhome crowd can even imagine sums up my feelings after selling my Holiday Rambler years ago. When I'm rolling past fiberglass motorhomes I try to give them plenty of room so that I don't blow them onto the shoulder as I know what it is like to drive those motorized trailers.

The mass of the Wanderlodge, the full heavy-duty suspension and tires that the wannabe pushers don't have, the radiused roof edges (a-la Airstream) all contribute to its outstanding cross-wind and truck-wake manners, it must be experienced.

The Wanderlodge is the safest motorhome on the road not only because if its ability to sustain a collision, but also because of its stability, which helps to maintain control and prevent a collision.

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[> Subject: Re: Wheelbase - Length Myth


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 30/ 03, 4:56pm

For starters, I suggest you go here:
http://www.motorhomereviewonline.com/wheelbase_length.htm
to read a more objective opinion about length-wheelbase.
I have had an FC31 which is both the shortest wheelbase and the smallest percentage wheelbase (52%). I currently have my 4th Wanderlodge, and have driven many others.
To say that the Wanderlodge is more stable than the "sticks-n-staples" motorhome crowd can even imagine sums up my feelings after selling my Holiday Rambler years ago. When I'm rolling past fiberglass motorhomes I try to give them plenty of room so that I don't blow them onto the shoulder as I know what it is like to drive those motorized trailers.

The mass of the Wanderlodge, the full heavy-duty suspension and tires that the wannabe pushers don't have, the radiused roof edges (a-la Airstream) all contribute to its outstanding cross-wind and truck-wake manners, it must be experienced.

If a Wanderlodge is anything but stable, its maintenance has been neglected

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[> [> Subject: Re: Wheelbase - Length Myth


Author:
Matt
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 30/ 03, 6:20pm

Thanks for the link - and the thoughts. O.K. I am convinced they are safe...at least safer than the stick and staple. Now...how many man hours tinkering can I anticipate? Probably a thought for another thread...

Thanks again,
Matt

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Subject: 1975 BWL need heater fans and speed o meter cable


Author:
Palmer Savoy
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 29/ 03, 9:17am

I am looking for replacement fans for my 75 wonderlodge 12VDC propane heaters. Also looking for a replacement speed ometer cable set (there are 2 cables a short and a long). Finnally, I am in need of the Primer type paint used by factory on the galvanize metal. My Paint is peeling and the peeled chips have a slight acid smell to them. P Savoy 337 235 0398 or psavoy@bellsouth.net

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[> Subject: Re: 1975 BWL need heater fans and speed o meter cable


Author:
Harvey Lawrence
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 29/ 03, 9:17am

I suggest going to the original manufacturer for the fan motors..they will fit easier. Try Suburban Mfg. co PO box 399 Dayton TN 37321 phone 615 775 2131. As for the speed ometer cables you can take the old ones down to a good automotive parts place that has been in business a long time and they might make you a new one. Let your fingers do the walking through the yellow pages.
On the acid smell on the paint chips that would be correct.the Steel is zinc coated and the atmosphere will cause it to oxidize quickly. When it does the oxidation keeps paint from sticking very well. Therefore acid is used to prepare fro painting to defeat the oxidation.
Harvey Lawrence VB8 F7444

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Subject: L.E.D.Tail Lites


Author:
Jack Richardson
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 15/ 03, 6:03pm

I have just finished installing L.E.D. lights from B/B (part #s 0053071 amber $43.06, 0053069 red stop/tail $37.04 [red have less leds]) Has any one used a decoration to cover the unpainted areas. My base cream buffed out fairly well. Feathering the red in will be tough.
Thanks Jack Richardson

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[> Subject: Re: L.E.D.Tail Lites


Author:
Bob Dilks
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 15/ 03, 6:03pm

Jack: In what year and model coach were the L.E.D. lights installed.

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Subject: Propane Systems


Author:
Bob Foster
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 13/ 03, 9:21am

Is there a shutoff valve for the propane system (other than at the tank) on an '84 40PT?

When I was looking at the coach the stove and furnaces worked fine. During the drive home I tried the stove and it would start with a 1 inch high flame and immediately drop to about a 1/4 inch flame. The furnaces now will not light.

The propane tank is full and the tank valve is open.

Any ideas? Thanks.

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[> Subject: Re: Propane Systems


Author:
Ernie Ekberg
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 10/ 03, 5:05pm

Bob, there is a propane control box close by the refer. On my 83PT40 it is under the booth by the aisle. Mine had some dirt in it. i took it apart and cleaned it and the green light came on. This controls the propane and is the electric shutoff. Hope this help, Ernie Ekberg in Texas

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[> [> Subject: Re: Propane Systems


Author:
harvey lawrence
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 11/ 03, 10:27am

there is an automatic propane shut off device in the refer compartment as erinie says. on my 84 the reset button is down in the lower corner of the dinette cove. push it in and you have reset the gas emergency trip.when reset you should have a green pilot light come on.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Propane Systems


Author:
Bob Foster
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 13/ 03, 9:21am

Thanks to both Ernie and Harvey. That was the problem. I looked at that several times and thought it was just a sensor. I have not cleaned the valve yet but it is on the todo list.

Thanks again. Robert Foster, Seattle, Washington.

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Subject: cat na3208 replace or repair?


Author:
Mark Johnston
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 12/ 03, 12:43pm

I broke the crank in my cat 3208na engine in my updated 1977 fc33. What replacement motors will fit? Can the Allison transmission handle ..increased horsepower/torgue? I would like around 300hp or more if possible/practicle. Alternatively, where can I source a 3208 crank and parts for rebuilding? Is there a turbo kit to upgrade the 3208na? Any other tips or suggestions are appreciated.

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[> Subject: Re: cat na3208 replace or repair?


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 12/ 03, 12:43pm

"Fit" is a relative term, how much work do you want to do. There is a 8V92TA powered FC running around somewhere, and a 3406 powered, you can make space if you want to exceed 400hp.

For my money, I would take the path of least resistance: a reman Cat 3208Ta/250hp.
It isn't the most modern engine, and better alternatives are out there, but the engine will fit everything from the engine mounts and transmission to the pumps & brackets with minor doghouse modification for the turbo) and this saves a pile of searching, buying, and modifying.

Your '77 FC33 with a 250hp 3208 and 4.44:1 gears will run 75+ miles per hour, tow and climb more strongly than your current engine with less smoke, and the fuel mileage should improve with the gear ratio change. You're only 26,000lbs and should be able to run with my 300hp/33,000lb '88FC which runs 75 on the cruise, much happier there than my re-geared '77 (which also ran 75 on the cruise). The transmission is rated for the power, the radiator or fan might need improvement however.

There is a '77 FC31 at Holland Motorhomes / Holland Bus Company in Holland getting a 250hp reman and re-ratio, they should be able to give you a very close estimate in the next week or so. It won't be cheap, new engines never are. Mike Hohnstein in Wisconsin just finished installing a reman 250hp in his '83 also, might be a good source for information.

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Subject: Oil Temp


Author:
Terry
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 11/ 03, 10:38am

Does anyone know the normal oil temp for a 8V92 at highway speed?

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[> Subject: Re: Oil Temp


Author:
Jim Scoggins
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 9/ 03, 10:59am

I don't know what mormal is other than what is posted in the owner's manual.
Mine runs at about 225 almost all the time.


1986 PT40
8V92TA

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[> Subject: Re: Oil Temp


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 9/ 03, 5:43pm

When the oil temperature gauge was added in '84, BlueBird said that normal for the 6V92 was 200-250 MAX for the 6V92TA and 230-250MAX for the 3208Ta. I would expect the 8V to have similar limits although the typical might be somewhat different.

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[> Subject: Re: Oil Temp


Author:
Harvey Lawrence
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 11/ 03, 10:38am

I would agree with Jim that oik temps run around 200 to 225 but will climb somewhat when on a hard pull up a hill. also outside temp (extreme) will have an effect

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Subject: 79 FC


Author:
Bill Rowe
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 11/ 03, 10:31am

I'm new to this forum but I've lurking for a while. I just talked to a guy who says he has a 79 FC 35 with a V8 NA engine. From what I read here, I thought the V8 did'nt come out until the mid eightys. Maybe I missread. Can some one straighten me out?

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[> Subject: Re: 79 FC


Author:
harvey lawrence
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 11/ 03, 10:31am

the 1979 FC 35 ft bluebird has a CAT 3208 naturally aspirated v8 diesel factory rated at 210 HP. it can be turned up to 215 or even 225 with proper adjustments.

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Subject: 79 FC


Author:
Bill Rowe
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 10/ 03, 7:31pm

Buy the way, he said It had a rear bath.

Bill Rowe A wannabe bb owner AR

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Subject: Floorplans


Author:
Bonnie Lynne
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 9/ 03, 4:25am

I'm looking for a Wanderlodge that has a bigger bathroom than the center closet style bath, preferrably built in the 80's and powered by a 250HP turbo or better. Is there such Bluebird?

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[> Subject: Re: Floorplans


Author:
Bruce Morris
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 15/ 03, 8:23pm

Bonnie, I have a 83 FC35RB and it has a huge bathroom in it. We love it. It also has a very open floorplan which we also like. Twin beds and we have the facing couches in the front salon. You might like it. Let me know if you have any questions. Mine also has a 250 HP 3208Turbo CAT.

Bruce in Raleigh, NC 1983 WL FC35RB

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[> Subject: Re: Floorplans


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 16/ 03, 4:44pm

As Bruce mentioned, the FC (Forward Control or front engine) had a rear bath option which really makes for a large, comfortable bathroom. The 250hp turbo became standard in '84, some '83s have it, but even the 225hp turbo in the rest of the '83s is pretty good.
Otherwise, the PT (Pusher, Tag axle) started in '82, always had more than 250hp (most are 330hp until the 475hp/500hp became available in '86). Horsepower doesn't mean much though, a 225hp FC31 will climb as well or better than a 325hp PT40 will with its extra 12,000lbs. You have to drive them to decide what you want as they all have their strengths.
In the pushers however, a much larger bathroom became available with the "walk-through" bath, it all depends on your budget as the '83 FC35 Rear Bath is a fraction of what an '88 WLWB with walk-through bath will cost to buy and operate. Do you have a price range in mind?

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[> Subject: Re: Floorplans


Author:
Terry
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 9/ 03, 4:25am

In 1987 the center bath option became available. I just happen to have one for sale

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Subject: 1979 FC35 Tire Covers


Author:
Henry F. Claeys
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 2/ 03, 5:05pm

Can anyone tell me where I can get tire covers to protect the tires from the sun when I'm parked? The tires sizes for the birds are bigger than most R.V.'s, as you know, so finding covers isn't so easy. I also carry a spare, on a basket rigged on the back, and need it protected at all times. Thanks for your help..Henry at claeys@rgv.net

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[> Subject: Re: 1979 FC35 Tire Covers


Author:
L. Longcrier
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 12/ 03, 9:59am

Try Camping world, they were the cheapest I've found.

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[> Subject: Re: 1979 FC35 Tire Covers


Author:
joe zakowski
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 2/ 03, 5:05pm

We have 12R 22.5 and we had them made in Yuna AZ for $45.00 w. bags. We will be going back there in Nov. to have a spare one made up. They fit good.

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Subject: Interior Upgrades


Author:
T. Thompson
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 1/ 03, 12:47pm

I have a 1983 FC 3208T that I want to upgrade the carpeting, re-upholster/replace chairs & sofa and change the drapes. Anyone know of a business that works on BB near Wisconsin or even within the mid-west doing this type of work?.

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[> Subject: Re: Interior Upgrades


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 10/ 1/ 03, 12:47pm

I'll happily do the work for you, email me if interested. I am in Holland Michigan, look at www.wanderlodge.net if you wish to see a couple of recent examples (the '83 and the '88).

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Subject: Hot Batteries


Author:
Gene Morris
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 30/ 03, 8:00am

I have an '84 PT40 with 692. After installing ProSine inverter with battery temp monitor I noticed that the temperature of the batteries exceeds 200° which seem too hot for batteries or inverter.The inverter is mounted where the original converter charges were. Does anyone have any suggestions or opinions on this ??????
Thank you in advance !!!

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[> Subject: Re: Hot Batteries


Author:
Bob Dilks
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 30/ 03, 8:00am

I find it impossible to diagnose inverters with intragal battery chargers which is why I recommend separate instruments. In all likelihood the batteries are not at 200 degrees unless the muffler shield has been removed, and even then it is unlikely. Installing the inverter in the location as the original converters/chargers should not be a problem. Contrary to popular surmise, the original electrical compartment does not get hot from engine heat but must be vented to dissipate heat from the electrical equipment. Buy an infared thermometer and take redings of the batteries and inverter to comfirm temperatures. The thermometer will also be handy for checking other temperatures such as tires, engine oil pan, exhaust manifold, hot and cold water lines, etc., etc.

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Subject: location fuel sending unit


Author:
nelson slinkman
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 27/ 03, 10:40am

Does anyone know the location of the fuel sending unit for a 8v92engine in a 1994 40 'wb
thanks
nelson

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Subject: Floorplans


Author:
Bonnie Lynne
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 15/ 03, 8:19pm

Where can I find floorplans for 1980 to 1987 Bluebirds? Thank you.

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[> Subject: Re: Floorplans


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 31/ 03, 12:08pm

What are you looking for, perhaps we can tell you when/if it was available.
As far as I know the floorplans are not published anywhere, but some of us can help point you toward whether what you're looking for was available, or what might be close.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Floorplans


Author:
bonnie Lynne
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 31/ 03, 12:47pm

Jeff, I'm looking for a Wanderlodge that does not have the center bath that resembles a closet. The overweight people who will be travelling with me won't fit! Ideally what I want is a Wanderlodge with a larger bath, built in the 80's, and powered by a 250 or higher turbo. Thanks so much for responding. I've been pouring over the internet for hours searching in vain.
Sincerely,
Bonnie

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Floorplans


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 1/ 03, 2:08pm

Now you're cooking. It boils down to budget and sleeping accomodations now.
The least expensive will be an '83-up FC RB (Forward Control/front engine Rear Bath). In '83 the 225hp turbo started, late '83 was the 250hp. The rear bath has a nice large bathroom, but only twin beds (located ahead of the bathroom) were available.
If your budget is larger or you require a larger bed, you can consider the WLWB - '88-up with walk-through bath and a queen bed, more room in all areas.

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[> Subject: Re: Floorplans


Author:
Bruce Morris
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 15/ 03, 8:19pm

Lynn, I am working on getting all the floor plans that I can find together and making them available on the Wanderlodge Forum (http://www.wanderlodge.org) as soon as I get some time to do it. If you are looking for a specific one let me know and I'll check to see if I have it.

If anyone reading this has any floorplans they can send me, please do.

Bruce in Raleigh, NC 1983 WL FC35RB

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Subject: Overall Coach Sizes


Author:
Tim Pagano
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 15/ 03, 9:21am

I am having a new building constructed for my equipment and want to make a space for a mid '70 -'80 Wanderlodge. Will 14'clear height handle the unit? What are the outside dimensions of a unit?

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[> Subject: Re: Overall Coach Sizes


Author:
mark johnston
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 14/ 03, 12:37pm

i just measured my 1977 abd it was 11 feet to the top of the spotlight which is my highest point

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[> Subject: Re: Overall Coach Sizes


Author:
Steve Anderson
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 15/ 03, 7:21am

I am not sure why but my 79 is a little taller, that is, closer to 12 ft. My garage is 14'6" which allows me to get on top of the coach inside the building. I also prefer the garage width of 14' which allows me to walk around and work on the coach inside.

Steve Anderson
79 FCC 35
Poulsbo, Wa.

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[> Subject: Re: Overall Coach Sizes


Author:
Bob Jones
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 15/ 03, 8:38am

Federal specs for commercial equipment is 13'-6" high. Coaches cannot exceed this height. Max Federal width is 102" wide. Length for a coach should not exceed 40' in most (if not all) states. Plan your structure to be something just larger than these numbers, and you should be fine.

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[> Subject: Re: Overall Coach Sizes


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 15/ 03, 9:21am

I park my FC35 in a 15' x 40' stall (outside dimensions, steel building) and it is just large enough to walk around and operate bin doors and climb the ladder etc. If you want room to work on an open radiator, you might want a couple more feet. Besides, maybe some day you'll buy a 45' coach ;~) I've put several coaches from my '77 FC31 to my '88 FC35 in here with ease.
My door is 12'Wx14H', it is tall enough with room to spare, but I wouldn't go narrower than 12' (which is actually more like 11'8" with trim) because mirrors and other items pretty much fill the doorway. You'll the extra to manuever in/out usually unless you really get it straight every time (which would require about 50' of driveway minimum).
Again if you want to work on it, a couple feet wider would be helpful, especially on the door side.

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Subject: Automatic choke on Onan 6.5 generator


Author:
Bill
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 8/ 03, 7:56pm

I have a 78 FC with an Onan 6.5 gas generator. It is hard starting. I have isolated the problem to the automatic choke. When I manually close the choke the engine starts immediately. The Onan manual shows a adjustment of the automatic choke, but it looks to me as if there has been a replacement of the electric solenoid that operates the choke, i.e. it doesn't look like the manual says it should. Has anyone had experience with this problem?

Bill
Nordland, Wa.

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Subject: Restartimg cat 210 after 11 months storage


Author:
Hank
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 1/ 03, 2:01pm

Billy, Jeff & others Bird experts:
Will be going to Georgia first of October to re-start the old 77fc33 which has been vacationing in the storage lot since last November. I plan to change oil, filters & drain a bucket of diesel before trying to start it. Any other words of caution or advice for me??
Can't wait to pat the ole bird on the behind!!!
Hope to hear from you all. Still in Hawaii at the moment.
Best,
Hank & Naty

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[> Subject: Re: Restartimg cat 210 after 11 months storage


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 09/ 1/ 03, 2:01pm

The usual checks, tires, fluid levels, belts and hoses, coolant pH / SCAs, and it sounds like you've got it handled. See you at Rally! Those '77s sure are nice, aren't they?

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Subject: Basic Information


Author:
Jim Yule
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 30/ 03, 7:10pm

Help!!
I want to buy an older Wanderlodge due to my budget. I race and will be towing about 6000 to 8000 lbs. My questions are:

What at the HP and torque of the 3208, both turbo and regular?

Will a non-turbo 3208 do the job or must I go to the turbo? I know it does about 2700 rpm at 65 mph, but how will the acceleration be? Will it be OK for entry ramps on the expressways?

Will the Allison transmission hold up?

What about the brakes? will they do the job? How is the jake brake, should I buy one with one installed or are they more trouble than they are worth?

What else should I know about what I'm thinking about doing (pulling such a load)? (what are the pitfalls I should look for?)

Thanks for your help

Jim Yule

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[> Subject: Re: Basic Information


Author:
Dan
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 28/ 03, 1:41pm

82 and earlier Fcs 3208 = 210 HP
83 = 225 HP, last 12 of the year 250 hp
84-86 250 Hp, all the above with Allison 4 Speed
87-89 FC 300 HP, ZF 5 speed. ZF has a trans brake.

Many older FCs have a 4 position driveline brake, works well.
My 83 FC35 225 HP, entry ramps are slow. Allisons in the FCs are tough trannies.

Get an FC with a driveline brake or tranny brake if you will be coing down lots of grades pulling 8,000 lbs.

Try asking on:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wanderlodge/ for more opinions.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Basic Information


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 30/ 03, 7:10pm

Get the most power you can afford.
The FCs are around 1,000lbs/foot, shorter is lighter and dropping from the 35 to the 33 or 31 will save a fair amount of weight (= increased power/weight ratio or more pulling power). Dropping from the 35 is good and bad, it loses the weight of the large 12.5kw diesel genset, but that diesel genset is very useful for extended dry-camping such as racing, has capacity to "buddy plug" another coach into it, or a race-car trailer complete with compressor ;~)
The 210hp has enough power for 55mph travels with your trailer on fairly flat terrain. On rolling terrain or to run 60-65 you will be happier with the 250hp (have one for sale), and to pull grades with more authority the 300hp with 5-speed will do pretty well.

The 225hp started in '83, along with the Jacobs EL (electric driveline retarder) retarder which is quite effective. The late '83 through '86 coaches had the 250hp and Jacobs EL also. In '87 they got the 300hp, a 5-speed overdrive ZF transmission with retarder.

I've had at least one of each, all nice coaches. Personally I would plan on at least a 250hp if its main job is to tow 6,000-8,000lbs, I towed 6,500 with my 210hp once, it took a lot of flat-pedal driving to keep 60. The 300 would be nice, but an '87-'89 will typically bring almost twice the price of an '83.

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Subject: Cat 3208 Engines


Author:
Jim Yule
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 30/ 03, 6:50pm

I'm looking at a 77 Wanderlodge that the owner claims has a 300 hp turbo deisel. I thought that year and early 80's had a 210 or a 250 hp for the 3208 cat engine. What are the correct or replacement engines?

JIm Yule

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[> Subject: Re: Cat 3208 Engines


Author:
Dan
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 28/ 03, 1:46pm

The 300 HP has engine electronic requirements not in older coaches, and a differnent capacity trans so I doubt it is true. There are however many 250 HP cats in the older wanderlodges as replacement engines.

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[> Subject: Re: Cat 3208 Engines


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 30/ 03, 6:50pm

The original engine (optional: diesel) in that coach is the 210hp 3208Na (non-turbo). As Dan mentioned, the 225hp or 250hp turbo is somewhat common for a replacement, only minor changes need to be made for the change. To install the 300hp 3208ATAAC there are no electronics, however the engine would need to be moved rearward to accomodate the aftercooler ahead of the radiator, a new radiator to allow the plumbing to get over it, a transmission rated for the net output of that 300hp engine (the original Allison is rated for 250), new air filter system and plumbing, etc. Not likely. It also would need a new differential (gears, bearings, case) to be able to use the 300hp, with the original gears the top speed at max. RPM would be about 60mph, about 5mph slower than the higher-revving original 3208NA!
In all, the '77 FC31/FC33 is fairly lightweight, will run well with a healthy engine and taller gears (mine ran 75 on the cruise control, would top 80mph with its 4.63:1 gears). With a 225hp or 250hp and those gears it should pull just about any grade with authority.
I also looked at that coach, don't believe the claim, but you never know.

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Subject: New message page


Author:
Kathy
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 26/ 03, 5:45pm

It appears that the last message list has gone to the archives and so we are starting a new page. Please go ahead and post new messages or click on the archives and read the earlier messages. Thanks. Kathy (webmaster)

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Subject: Electric Curtains


Author:
Bob Trafton
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 23/ 03, 7:58am

Some time ago there was a supplier for the rubber tires on the electric motors on the curtains. Other than Bluebird, is there still someone that may supply them.Recently back from Muriels Upholstery at Fort Valley, cannot say enough good about them. We had thought about all new, I feel this was better than new and did not change the design fo the original. Excellent Job!

Email
rvliving2@netzero.net

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Subject: Oil on toad


Author:
Paul
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 19/ 03, 1:34pm

Did our first trip in the PT35 (Detroit Diesel 325hp 6V92). Have a gloppy mess of diesel smelling oil all over the toad. The oil is evenly distributed side to side on the toad and the underside of the engine bay. The top of the engine is nice and clean. I have been told that this is not normal (and I certainly hope not). The temps and pressures were right on. The bus ran great, started right up, got good milage, pulled hills just fine, and ran fast on the highway. This is our first diesel so I have no gauge to work against. Looking for diagnosis's from people who have been there. Thanks, --Paul

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Subject: Amp meter for 78 FC


Author:
Bill Brayton
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 17/ 03, 11:12am

I am looking for a source for a OEM or close match for a ammeter (dash mounted) for my 78 FC. Thanks,

Bill
Port Townsend, Wa.

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[> Subject: Re: Amp meter for 78 FC


Author:
Steve Anderson
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 7/ 03, 12:25pm

Bill I believe you might find both items you are looking for (Ammeter & floodlight switch) at West Marine or one of the other marine outfits there in Pt Townsend. Some NAPA's are good at finding and ordering these items too. The switch may be JABSCO (brand) and the ampmeter should be a Teleflex. If your ammeter is not showing charge be sure to check that the two terminals of the ampmeter are not shorted together by the securing bar that holds the meter to the panel.(behind the dash of course). That was a problem with mine when I bought the rig.

Steve Anderson
79FC35
Poulsbo, WA.

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[> Subject: Re: Amp meter for 78 FC


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 17/ 03, 11:12am

The spotlight switch is in stock at Holland Motorhomes 616.396.1461 and the ammeter is a teleflex, available from BlueBird or a dealer.

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Subject: Dinette Wanted


Author:
Shawn Fountain
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 11/ 03, 8:00pm

I want a dinette for 1980 35'. The original dinette was removed and is not available. Should I have one custom made, should I look for an original Bluebird dinette, or should I go with a new one from another manufacturer? I called Bluebird parts and they referred me to Couch Craft in Columbus Ohio. I am near Denver. Thanks.

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[> Subject: Re: Dinette Wanted


Author:
Liz Borg
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 11/ 03, 8:00pm

Shawn:
Maybe Blue Bird referred you to CoachCraft in Columbus, GA? They have my coach now ('86 PT40)making repairs. Really impressed with their work. If you can get it to them, I believe you will decide they are worth the trip.
They can be reached at www.CoachCraftByMacDonald.com
Website shows some of their work but really doesn't do it justice.

Liz Borg

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Subject: Jacobson Brake - 1979 FC35


Author:
Henry Claeys
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 11/ 03, 7:02pm

I just purchased a 1979 FC35 and the prior owner tells me that she never used the "Jake Brake" and thinks it isn't necessary. I'm trying to get an owner's manual from BlueBird but, in the meantime, here are my questions. (1) Is there a simple test to see if the brake is working? (2) Where would I go to find a mechanic with knowledge to get the brake operational. (3) Do other owners find the brake necessary, or, at least, useful? Thanks...Henry at claeys@rgv.net

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[> Subject: Re: Jacobson Brake - 1979 FC35


Author:
Steve Anderson
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 26/ 03, 7:55am

Henry,
I am surprised to hear that you have a Jake Brake your Cat. They were not a feature provided by Blue Bird, and as I have been told generally were not recommended for the 3208 engine. Most often a magnetic field propeller shaft brake was used, or a retarder option was added to the 643 Allison transmission. That being said, I disagree with your previous owners evaluation. If you do indeed have a Jake Brake I think in our part of the country where we are constantly hilling the Jake would be a nice feature to have. I have never used them, but Erics RV in Sequim is, I believe, a dealer for exhaust brakes. I have already passed you the info on Bryant Motors in Renton, they probably could be of assistance reguarding your Jake brake.

Steve Anderson
79 FC 35
Poulsbo, WA

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[> [> Subject: Re: Jacobson Brake - 1979 FC35


Author:
Henry Claeys
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 27/ 03, 1:10am

Steve: I think you were writing to Bill when you mentioned Bryant Motors in Renton. What state is Renton in? Also, what state is Eric's R.V., in Sequim, in? I'm guessing those places are in Washington, where you're from. You're probably correct that the Jacobson brake is not original. I've noticed many features in my R.V. that I've suspected are not original. I appreciate your responses..Henry in McAllen, Texas at claeys@rgv.nt

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Jacobson Brake - 1979 FC35


Author:
Steve Anderson
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 27/ 03, 8:52am

Hope you can see the red from the embarassment on my face. Sorry Henry, I did have you mixed up with Bill who is just "up the road" from where I live.

Best of Luck
Steve

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[> Subject: Re: Jacobson Brake - 1979 FC35


Author:
Rich D.
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 27/ 03, 8:16pm

Henry, The term "Jake Brake" is often misused and refers to the exhaust brake manufactured by Jacobs Manufacturing. Some apply the name to any type of aux. brake like a transmission retarded or driveshaft brake. Any are helpful in hill country. The exhaust brake, IMO, provides the best braking without overheating anything.
Rich D. 99LXi43

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[> Subject: Re: Jacobs Brake - 1979 FC35


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 30/ 03, 7:45am

As others have mentioned, there was no Jake or retarder on the '79, it became available in '83 with the turbo. Remember that Wanderlodges were built to order, and you could get what you wanted pretty much, my '77 had a continental kit for example.
Also, Jacobs has never made a "Jake" for the 3208. You might have: A transmission retarder, available in the MT-643 (MT-643R); An exhaust brake (butterfly valve in the exhaust pipe) is available from Jacobs and others; An electric retarder (Jacobs EL) was equipped on the '83-'86 FCs on the driveshaft and is quite effective also.

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[> Subject: Re: Jacobson Brake - 1979 FC35


Author:
Gary G.
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 9/ 03, 9:33am

List of engine applications for the Jacobson Brake system.
http://www.jakebrake.com/content.php4?doc_uid=26

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[> Subject: Re: Jacobson Brake - 1979 FC35


Author:
Liz Borg - '86 PT40
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 11/ 03, 7:02pm

Hello Henry,
I've tried just using the Jake Brake when I need it, but have finally decided to take the advice of a motor home dealer friend, and always keep it on. I don't expect to get a lot of 'coasting' out of the Bird, and it's nice to have it help slow under normal circumstances, i.e. interstate exits, red lights changing, etc. Some owners have posted info that their brake light stays on when the Jake is on, but mine doesn't. You should be able to tell if it's working: get on the interstate (with jake brake off) and take your foot off the gas; then repeat with the jake brake on. If it's helping stop the coach, you'll feel it. Have fun with your Bird!
Liz

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Subject: Doghouse insulation replacement


Author:
Bill Brayton
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 9/ 03, 10:10am

My Wanderlodge (78 31'FC) is ready for new doghouse insulation. Any comments on materials to replace the old insulation?, as well as general comments on the subject.

Bill
Port Townsend, Wa.

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[> Subject: Re: Doghouse insulation replacement


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 30/ 03, 7:30am

I have been very happy with the 1" 4-layer sound insulation from J.C.Whitney. You will need 1-1/2 rolls to do the lid and surround. I have used 3M-77 spray contact adhesive successfully, but you will have to really saturate the foam side to get good adheasion, otherwise you'll find your lid insulation sagging :~(
Other contact adheasives will work also, pick your poison.
The insulation is foam/rubber/foam/mylar foil, good sound and heat barrier. It is identical to the insulation I've found at West Marine, and also to what I bought from the dealer for my '77FC. Check the seals around the doghouse also, new engine mounts do wonders, as do a couple of pieces of flex-pipe downstream of the exhaust manifolds to isolate the engine vibration, this will also greatly help the life of exhaust manifold gaskets and studs (common problem on the 3208Na).
Oh, perfect time to adjust valves and replace breather (PCV) gaskets/seals and rocker-cover gaskets.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Doghouse insulation replacement


Author:
Bill Brayton
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 30/ 03, 8:05am

Thanks Jeff. Good information. In regards to the flex pipe downstram of the exhaust manifold: Are you meaning to cut the exhaust pipe and replace with short length of flex pipe?

Bill
PT

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Doghouse insulation replacement


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 3/ 03, 7:45am

Yes. While replacing an exhaust manifold bolt, I cut a few inches out of each exhaust pipe and replaced with stainless flex-pipe and stainless band-clamps. The engine moves (rotates), but the pipe mountings don't allow the pipes to rise and fall, adding stress to the manifold bolts and trasmitting sound/vibration through the floor.

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[> Subject: Re: Doghouse insulation replacement


Author:
G.G.
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 9/ 03, 10:10am

Here are three different types of insulation/soundproofing sources that are popular with street rodders. Worth a look.
http://www.hytechsales.com/insulating_paint_additives.html
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/floorrbar.html
http://www.dynamat.com/

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Subject: Air Suspension Question


Author:
G. G.
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 9/ 03, 9:40am

Did the older air suspension systems use R-12 ?
If so, what year did the company convert to R-134?
Any suggested internet reading about the air suspension system would be appreciated.

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Subject: Spotlight swithch


Author:
Bill
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 6/ 03, 11:51am

I have a 78 FC I am looking for a replacement toggle switch for the spot light control. It is a 4-way toggle, for up, down, right, left. Any help in that area would be appreciated.

Bill
Port Townsend, Wa.

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Subject: what to get


Author:
alan benfield
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 3/ 03, 12:24pm

I live in NYC 6 to 7 month a year, the other 5 or 6 months I camp in Mexico. I have a Sportsmobile camper van and am looking to get more comfortable. I have been looking at older Birds.
My lifestyle permits me to live outdoors most of the time and getting more comfortable means showering inside and having a refrigerator.
I store the camper van while not in use and have very little access to it.
My questions are gas versus diesel. I drive about 3000 miles each way and don't use the camper van while camped. I'm leaning toward gas as I know my way around. My intention is to travel to the west and look in the fall. What are the most common falts to look for and what should I be especially on the lookout for. Thanks

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Subject: Info needed on older Birds


Author:
J. Walton
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 3/ 03, 8:01am

I have a few questions regarding older FC Birds, and was hoping one of you may be able to help? I’m looking to purchase an older Bird and wanted to get some information….

1. Gas Industrial Engine vs. the early Diesel NA. Can anyone tell me what the power/mileage is like and also noise/vibration between the two? I can’t find any information on these old Ford engines as to power rating and longevity. You would think as many of them as Ford built someone on the web would have said something about them? Any known web sites?
2. Rust/Dry Rot? Are older birds prone to rust or rot in any areas that you would not see in a normal walk around? I understand they are made of Steel, but what about the floor? Is it wood or steel, and how do they hold up at the wheel wells and bathroom areas that get a lot of moisture?
3. Leaking Roofs? How do these steel roofs hold up, and if they have/are leaking does the water come through the vinyl ceiling, or will the water get trapped and run down along the walls?
4. Air Brakes? Do all Birds have Air Brakes and if so, do they all have Spring Pack type emergency/parking systems?
5. What would be a reasonable price for a clean but not perfect 70-78 Gas powered 31-33 Bird vs. Diesel Bird?
6. FC31 Vs. FC33? Where does the extra 2’ go between these two units. I have seen pictures of both and can’t tell one from the other? Do you get an extra closet or is the living room a bit bigger on the 33’?
Thanks for any help you can give me.

You’re in elder Fowl,

J. Walton / Placerville CA

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[> Subject: Re: Info needed on older Birds


Author:
Jeff Miller
[Edit]

Date Posted: 08/ 3/ 03, 8:01am

Gas vs Diesel: I've not owned a gas, it will get you there. The diesel has more torque and is better suited to running full-power, it will climb and tow without tearing itself up. My fuel mileage was typically 8.5mpg @ 65mph. I did get around 9.5 once, was in Ohio and driving ~60mph most of the time. Diesel also doesn't have points/distributor/carburator that the gas engine has, plus being more likely to handle many miles.
Rust hasn't been an issue for structure, only cosmetics from what I've seen. Some systems can have rust problems if parked in a salt-air climate, but the rust damage should be visible. The floor is thick galvanized steel, rustproofed and foamed on the outside, I've never seen water damage to the steel although the wood floor above it can be damaged by leaking water systems.
Leaking roofs do happen, typically around vents, A/Cs, and roof-rack screws. It will soften the masonite backing and make the ceiling panels warp and buckle. In some cases it will leak along the edge of the roof, damaging the inside of the storage bins above the windows.
All Diesels have air brakes, I believe that all are FMVSS121 compliant, dual-system with spring brakes as was my '77.
Price is dependent on condition, features, condition, colors, condition, etc., but the diesel is always more valuable/desirable than the gasoline.
The extra 2' from the 31 to the 33 goes half into the wheelbase, it shows up ahead of the door in longer sofas, a little more space for the pilot/co-pilot seats, an end-table by the sofa(s), and either a 2nd chair or a double-wide half-closet (twin sofa version). It can be see in the side-view in the extra distance between the salon window and the doorway.
The 35' adds the next 2-feet to the wheelbase, mostly adding two more closets to the bedroom/hall area, and a larger generator compartment for the diesel generator (a 12.5kw model). Also a 3rd A/C unit. Its extra length can be seen in side views behind the galley window, and also by the 3rd (center) A/C. The 33 would probably be my favorite, except for the gasoline genset.

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Subject: Specs for Booth Dinette in 1980 Mid-Bath


Author:
Shawn Fountain
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 29/ 03, 1:07pm

I am planning to build a booth for my Wanderlodge. The original was removed and is not available. Bluebird has not been able to find the specs. Would someone please measure their booth and send me the specs? As far as I know there are no Bluebirds in my area (Boulder, Colorado) so I can not take the measurements myself.

Tks,
SDF

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Subject: What weight toad can my SP36 pull?


Author:
Charles Olsen
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 28/ 03, 4:49pm

Can't find in my 91,SP36 brochure what weight toad I can pull. I am considering purchasing the Accura MDX suv, but at 4300 lbs. is this to heavy?

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[> Subject: Re: What weight toad can my SP36 pull?


Author:
Henry Claeys
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 25/ 03, 2:40am

I just purchased a 1979 FC35 with a Caterpillar 3208 and only 210 HP, but BlueBird says that it can tow up to 10,000.00 pounds with proper hitch and brakes. I'm sure you've got lots more horsepower so you should have no problem with the acura so long as you have proper hitch, brakes, and towing apparatus.

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[> Subject: Re: What weight toad can my SP36 pull?


Author:
Juergen
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 26/ 03, 7:41pm

I have also a 91 36 SP WL and my manual sates that I can pull 5000lbs. It could pull more, but the ball hitch and attachments go for the 5000lbs. i tow a jeep wrangler and don't even know its there.
Happy Trails
Juergen

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[> Subject: Re: What weight toad can my SP36 pull?


Author:
L. Longcrier
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 28/ 03, 4:49pm

I have a 1984 FC35, and tow a 20ft enclosed car hauler with a Fiero, a washer,dryer, and deep freese in it, and have no problems. Your SP 36 has a 300hp Cat whereas I only have 250 Horses, so you should only be limited by your hitch rating.
L. Longcrier
M1894@AOL.com

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Subject: Dutch Door Installation


Author:
Bill
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 25/ 03, 5:14am

I have a 78 FC 31' Wanderlodge. It has no swing out radiator. I live in the Seattle area and would like to know if there is a local installer for this modification. Also, is there any one who can furnish me with enough description of the mod for me to do it myself. I have a shop and the skills to do it myself.

Bill

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[> Subject: Re: Dutch Door Installation


Author:
Steve Anderson
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 23/ 03, 9:38am

Bill, I live in Poulsbo, and own a 79 FC 35. I doubt that you will find a local shop that will understand what you are tallking about. Bryant Motors in Renton is the authorized Blue Bird service center. They deal mostly with school bus repair work but have been very helpful to me as far as parts go. They may or may not perform the modification. I have not had occasion to have them perform sevice work yet as I do most of my own repairs and service. It is my understanding (I could be incorrect in my understanding) that the the "Dutch Door" modifications are not a factory available item. I believe that Holland Motors in Holland, Michigan does that conversion and also sells the parts to do the conversion. They are easily found on the internet.
There have been a number of postings, including some with pictures on the Yahoo Wanderlodge Group forum. Including some fabrications that were home made. Could be what your looking for.

Steve Anderson
79 FC 35
Poulsbo, WA.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Dutch Door Installation


Author:
Bill
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 23/ 03, 8:06pm

Steve

Thanks for your reply. I live not far from you on Marrowstone Island (Port Townsend). I will check on the postings on the Yahoo site. I will most likely do the modification myself, as a winter project.

Bill
wb@waypt.com

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Dutch Door Installation


Author:
Steve Anderson
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 24/ 03, 8:39am

I was at Ft. Flagler last week.

I would be interested in your swing radiator project when you do it as my 79 does not have the modification either. This last spring I replaced all belts and front engine hoses. Not too bad a job but it would be nice to not have to drain the radiator each time for access to the front of the engine.

Steve Anderson
79 FC 35
Poulsbo, WA.

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[> Subject: Re: Dutch Door Installation


Author:
Henry Claeys
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 24/ 03, 11:53am

Bill and Steve: (1) I just purchased a 1979 FC35, with no owner's manual, and don't know if it has the swing radiator or not. Bluebird tells me it wasn't standard until the mid 80's, but a previous owner took the time, and expense, to perform several upgrades including rear air bag suspension, conversion from 6 volt to 12 volt system, square headlights and tail lights, and chrome all around. (2) Please keep me posted on this project as I may be interested in performing it on my vehicle. (3) By the way, what would I look for to know if mine has the swing radiator? (4) Looking from the front, I'm really wondering if an outwardly swinging radiator is possible because, as far as I can see, the radiator extends below the front bumper meaning it could only swing a few inches at best. 5) 'Am I correct in understanding that the whole face of the bus must be unscrewed before the swing radiator could be accessed? Thanks...Henry F. Claeys at claeys@rgv.net

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[> [> Subject: Re: Dutch Door Installation


Author:
DonM
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 25/ 03, 5:14am

I had the swing radiator put on my 1980 fc33. I love it. Your concern on the bumper is taken care because Holland Motor Homes also installs hinges on the bottom of the bumper. To get at my belts and the front of the engine I remove 4 bolts from the bumper and it swings down I remove the front sheet metal from in front of the radiator. and 4 more bolts that keep the radiator in place and swing it out. No draining of fluids no mess.

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Subject: Help with cockpit starter key switch


Author:
Paul
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 23/ 03, 9:56am

Recently purchased an 83 BB 35'. I switched off the main power disconnect above the accelerator pedal and now the engine won't start from the drivers seat. The engine can be started from the rear start switch in the engine bay (with the switch in the up position). Once engine is running I can shut off the engine from the drivers seat!?! What did I do when I switched off the power and what do I need to do to get the engine to start from the drivers seat?

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Subject: Excessive smoke at staartup


Author:
Bill
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 13/ 03, 3:42am

I am purchasing a 79 31'Wanderlodge witht the 3208 Cat. There is excessive smoke at startup of a cold engine. A block heater was installed, and the engine kept warm at all times, which prevents smoke at startup. Is excessive smoke at startup an indication of a problem? Or is it a normal function of the Cat 3208?

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[> Subject: Re: Excessive smoke at staartup


Author:
Peter
[Edit]

Date Posted: 06/ 12/ 03, 6:06am

If the smoke is mostly white it is just half burnrd diesel that is normal for 3208s, or any other diesel that does not have glow plugs. By heating the engine for a couple of hours prior to start most of the cold diesel smoke will be avoided. Heat of compression causes ignition, and when the block is cold there is a lot of unburned diesel until the block heats up.

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[> Subject: Re: Excessive smoke at staartup


Author:
Harvey Lawrence
[Edit]

Date Posted: 06/ 19/ 03, 11:09am

Bill
I had a 1979 FC with a 3208 and it was a recent rebuild. it did smoke (Blue) on start up unless you used the block heater, and even then a little.I wrote CAT and they explained that because the 3208 does not have cylinder sleeves it has a loose tolerance until the pistons warm up, and the blue smoke is normal during warm up. After mine warmed up it did not smoke at all.
Harv

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[> Subject: Re: Excessive smoke at staartup


Author:
RICH - eXPERT dIESEL
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 13/ 03, 3:42am

The 3208N from Factory was a 16.5:1 compression engine with only 2 piston rings. This causes the cold start smoke
problem. Rectified by installing 18.2:1 Turbo Pistons with 3 rings.
Ruch

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Subject: Cruise Control - 1990 WB 40


Author:
Sandy
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 12/ 03, 11:14am

Has anyone experienced this problem?
When the cruise control is engaged the transmission downshifts to
the next lower gear? This happens at any speed below the down-shift
lock-out speed of 63mph. Obviously, this makes it impossible to use
the cruise control at any speed below 63 mph.

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[> Subject: Re: Cruise Control - 1990 WB 40


Author:
Jay Darst
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 6/ 03, 5:12pm

I didn't see the answer to your cruise control problem. I too, am having some cruise control issues. I have a 1985 PT40 w/6V92 5SPD Allison. Cruise control is a Bendix. Some days, I set the cruise then in moments it releases. I can press resume, and it will reset- momentarily. Then it releases. Other days, works great. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Jay Darst

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[> [> Subject: Re: Cruise Control - 1990 WB 40


Author:
Harvey Lawrence
[Edit]

Date Posted: 07/ 12/ 03, 11:14am

I had a similar problem with a Bendix control on my 1984 PT40.. I found that it was not in the cruise control but found I had an alternator going bad every time the voltage dropped below a certain level the cruise control brain quit, knocking out the cruise. This may or may not apply to your unit but check voltages just for the fun of it
Harvey Lawrence

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