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05 /12/ 24, 8:11amLogin ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1234567[8]910 ]
Subject: Advise/Help


Author:
Peter Haley
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Date Posted: 01/ 9/ 02, 8:27am


We have been seriously thinking of buying a Vintage Bird ( early 80's) and
would be brand new at RVing having NO experience!!! Also we are retired and
don't have a big income but could afford to BUY a Bird. Trouble is after
reading the entire Vintage Bird Site (Harvey, Buzzy et al) we are afraid that they are to expensive to run and
keep up!! It sounds like you have to be an engineer or good mechanic to keep
one of them going. I am neither and wonder if we would be better off buying
a new standard Winnie Brave. We really need some advise our hearts say Bird,
but??????????

Thanks,

Peter and Kelly Haley
haleye@tmlp.com

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Advise/Help


Author:
HR Skillern
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Date Posted: 01/ 9/ 02, 4:35pm

Hi,
You answered your own question. They ARE expensive to maintain---properly. Tires are good for 7-8 years and 12R22.5 Bridgestone's cost 500 bucks each. Oil/filter changes are upwards of $125. Unless you do some of the maintenance yourself, mechanics are about 75-80 dollars/hr. Unless you get an older Bird that has been taken care of properly, you can easily unload $10,000 plus getting it up to speed. They get about 5-6 mpg. They are very complicated yet wonderful machines. With the Brand X you mentioned, the advantage is that you get a warranty for a year or so. The bad news is that after that, you will probably spend as much or more on maintenance and you will not probably have nearly as nice a ride. I have an 85 40ft W/Lodge that I wouldn't trade for any Winnie ever made. The bottom line is that motor homes are not inexpensive, buy 'em and forget 'em vehicles. They all need a lot of attention---ignore them at your own peril. Rather like kids. Good luck.

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[> Subject: Re: Advise/Help


Author:
hank
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Date Posted: 01/ 12/ 02, 7:52pm

recommend you buy the 79fc35 listed on www.birdconnection.com FOR ABOUT $25 GRAND...SURE IT WILL HAVE SOME THINGS TO DO TO IT. JUST LIKE HARV SAID ABOUT A HOUSE...BUT YOU WILL NEVER..NEVER REGRET BEING A BIRD OWNER! $25k FOR THE BIRD AND PUT $10k IN IT AND YOU HAVE A GREAT COACH. $60,000 FOR THE WINIE CHIEF AND YOU STILL HAVE TO CHANGE OIL, FILTERS ETC. JUST LIKE THE BIRD. RECOMMEND YOU LOOK AT THE BIRD CONNECTION EVERY DAY FOR 6 MONTHS TO FIND A BARGAIN AND CHAT ALL YOU CAN WITH BIRD OWNERS..
DO SOME RESEARCH..LEARN ALL YOU CAN ABOUT BIRDS....THEY ARE THE "BEST KEPT SECRET!!!"
I LOVE MY BIRD!!!!!!!

BEST OF LUCK,

HANK

77FC33 FMCA 79318

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[> Subject: Re: Advise/Help


Author:
Jeff MIller
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Date Posted: 01/ 13/ 02, 10:23am

As an owner of a '77 FC for four years, I can say that your observations are correct to a degree. I just bought new Michelin XZA2 tires (their top-of-the-line, 7year/700,000mile warranty) for my coach, $350ea mounted/balanced, not $500 (shop around), and cheap tires (not recommended) are less money.

Many repairs are expensive, look carefully before you buy to prevent needing these expensive repairs (3 furnaces for instance, 3 possibilities for repairs).

I spent around $10k on mine after the purchase, which included replacing every cushion, all carpets and pads, drapes/blinds, all foam and fabric, engine insulation, new inverter/charger, stripes, wheels, weatherstripping/seals, stereo, 2 TV/VCRs, sheets/bedspreads, filters, fluids, swing radiator, lights, CB, and many other things that don't come to mind at this time to update it to our liking. This has kept the coach running almost flawlessly for the past 4years/30,000miles, although I still work and my family (of 6) travels in the coach, we don't full-time. I really went overboard and updated anything that I wanted, but in contrast to my friends who bought a new Winnie at the same time, I spent less in my upgrade than his coach depreciated in the first year, (and same for subsequent years), my maintenance is less, mileage better, and I can drive on windy days when his coach can't stay in its lane. I'm also much, much safer in my all-steel 34,000lb coach than he is in his "sticks-n-staples" motorhome.
The depreciation curve has pretty much ended in a vintage 'Bird, all you lose is wear and tear, and maintenance. Value depends more on condition/appearance/features at this point.
Last, I have lurked for 4-5years on www.rvamerica.com and other common RV sites to hear many complaints and concerns that owners of disposable motorhomes have. Many of those concerns aren't applicable to a vintage bird. The concerns about delamination, body sag, overloaded chassis, overburdened drivelines, crosswind sensitivity, parts availability, etc. The Wanderlodge is, and always has been built for the long haul, its chassis components are available at any truck service center. Its interior components also are sturdy, solid walls and cabinetry etc. vs. the common 1/8" thick walls and cheap fixtures of the disposable units Many of those units are just beginning to install 50a service, and most of those are really only 30a+20a and not true 50a+50a like a BlueBird.
The cost of owning any used unit will be higher as there is no warranty. Those lucky owners of new stick-built units who are not trying to return them under the lemon law (read owner reviews on the same site) are enjoying the few months of low cash outlay. For any purchase of a used motorhome I would budget a cash reserve for repairs which could conceivably be $2000 or more (the cost to rebuild the FC's transmission is not far from the cost of rebuilding the transmission on a common gas motorhome). This might never be necessary, but like a house or car, you never know and the stress level is much lower if you have planned for this possibility (just like you buy insurance).
I would never go back to a stick-built RV, neither would my family. I have had more care-free miles, interested passers-by, complements, friendly service and help from owners and from BlueBird, than I ever could have imagined when a Holiday Rambler (S.O.B.) owner. As another post mentioned, shop carefully, ask questions, and you will probably be very happy (and able to sell without losing your shirt if you aren't).

- Jeff

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[> [> Subject: Re: Advise/Help


Author:
Wayne Hand
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Date Posted: 03/ 5/ 02, 2:50pm

Jeff. Would you please tell me where you found those Michelin tires for $350 mounted/balanced. I have checked within a 100 mile radius of my FLA home and cannot come anywhere near that price. Thanks.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Advise/Help


Author:
HR Skillern
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Date Posted: 03/ 5/ 02, 5:01pm

Hi,
Obviously, there is an apples/oranges situation here. The tires that I have on my PT are 12 R 22.5, Bridgestones and they cost about $500 mounted. The tires Jeff is referring to must be 11 R 22.5, which are considerably less expensive. There are some PTs running around with the 11Rs on the rear and seem to be doing ok. However, check the weights and use the appropriate size tire for the given bus weight---unless you enjoy the sounds of loud noises and rushing air. Later,
RS

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Tire Prices


Author:
Jeff MIller
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Date Posted: 03/ 8/ 02, 6:07am

Correct. FCs run 11" tires which are the standard semi-truck size and therefore more competitively priced. PTs run 12" tires, less common and more expensive, standard bus tires.
My tires came from TCI in Zeeland Michigan, about 18months ago.

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[> Subject: Re: Advise/Help


Author:
Wayne Hand
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Date Posted: 03/ 6/ 02, 7:00am

Truthfully, you would be dollars ahead to go with a newer Fleetwood or Winnie product. I have owned motorhomes of all types for the past 30 years, and anytime you get into the bus category, as a Bird, Prevost, or Conversion, you will encounter considerable maintenance expense. That's because the parts are super heavy duty as compared to the other types, and therefore, are far more expensive. Plus, there are many more systems involved, which means, more potential for failures and more parts.

The problem people have affording Birds is this: they are made for people with "deep pockets", who have no problem handling the high maintenance costs. But, the older Birds have prices that are now affordable to folks with very shallow pockets. Only, the associated maintenance costs with a "half million" dollar coach still remain as if you had paid the big dollars for the unit. And, now you have wear and tare on top of that.

However, if you are like me, I enjoy owning a coach that is built like a tank, which will not rust or delaminate or get beat up from kids throwing things or hail, which has many redundant systems in case something should fail, which has many luxury amenities, which rides super nice, which you cannot hear outside noises inside, which if taken care of will give you several hundred thousand miles of service, which if you should be in a collision you most likely will not be injured and certainly not killed, and which will associate you with the most friendly bunch of owners and factory people you will ever meet.

Frankly, Bird would not have the reputation of high maintenance costs had the resale prices of the older coaches remained at the level comparable with similar units (such a Prevost). Because the buyers would have to have deep pockets just to purchase the used rig. And, I honestly do not understand why owners of the older Birds are selling them so cheaply. Bird's are every bit as nice and well built (better in most cases) than other bus type coaches. In fact, they have the exact same components, as engine, transmission, generators, etc., etc.

Good luck in your decision.

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