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[> [> [> Re: NEW MEN'S LACROSSE COACH -- Observer, 01:34:11 06/23/04 Wed

RecentGrad,

Admissions is a roadblock for every coach in the HC Athletic Dept. If a kid is a good enough student to get in, he or she is also getting into an Ivy or a NESCAC. Holy Cross or Harvard, Yale or Dartmouth? Holy Cross or Middlebury, Amherst or Williams? - you tell me where you would go taking all things into consideration? Was HC YOUR 1st choice? Be honest? HC is a Div. 3 college in Div. 1 uniforms. Let's face it, Holy Cross is a fall back school for many kids these days. There is a relative time warp up there on MT. St. James in which everybody thinks it it 1943 and people are beating down the front gate to get in. WAKE UP and smell the bark mulch!

My sources tell me that the Navy arrangements were made by the Athletic Dept., not the coaching staff. They could not get out of Providence due to school vacations and bookings. Plus the fact the PL scheduled them to play Lafayette Friday afternoon. Don't forget how the Football team traveled this past fall - it was no different in terms of a tight travel schedlue which did not give the kids much of a fighting chance on gameday.

Coach Pascal will be good for the program, impressive career so far. Unfortunately, without a big assist from Admissions (never going to happen) and FA he's doomed to the same fate of the others that went before him.

If you believe HC can be a Top 20 team in 3 years, you really are not a fan of the game or probably never played at a high level. At best, with the present commitment from the college, they might win a game or two in the PL (Lafayette to my knowledge is the only PL team HC has ever beaten in 14 years of competition). I offer to you that the program is closer to being downgraded to Club Status than cracking even the top 30 in Division 1. To think HC can compete with Navy, Army, Bucknell, Colgate and Lehigh is not realistic. HC is not a destination for lacrosse players and never will be due to the neglect of the Athletic Dept and College administration. To suggest that the program can be on par with Maryland, Rutgers, UMass, Georgetown, Penn. St., Ohio St. Notre Dame, Loyola, Syracuse, Virginia, Princeton UNC, ect. is way off base and nothing but pie in the sky. This program belongs in the MAAC with Siena, Providence, Manhattan and Marist if it remains a Varsity sport much longer.

If I'm the AD, I look at the futility of the program over the past 14 years as a member of the PL and immediately drop the roster of 35 to help the Title 9 issue and pool the money saved for Hockey because they are going to need every cent if they get to where the want to go - ECAC.
Do you really believe the administration is about to commit what is necessary to elevate Men's Lacrosse in the PL? WRONG! Lacrosse is not a priority, accept it and live with it. Financial support does not come from Regan (in fact, no support comes from this immoral, self-centered, arrogant blight on Holy Cross), rather it comes from the Trustees who have many other issues in front of them at the moment.

Godspeed to Coach Pascal - may he be a man with excessive patience and wonderful eyesight because he is going to see things he never could have imagined during his days at Middlebury, Harvard and Williams. Perhaps the most disfunctional Athletic Dept. (administration) ever assembled under one, soon be be new, roof.

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[> [> [> [> Re: NEW MEN'S LACROSSE COACH -- HCFAN, 06:50:02 06/23/04 Wed

I agree, we are at the bottom as long as Regan remains in the AD position, it's time for new direction. Why can't the administration see this?

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[> [> [> [> To Observer -- RecentGrad, 09:13:15 06/23/04 Wed

Observer: With all due respect (because I did enjoy your post), there are several factual and logical problems contained in your post. First off, you say "If a student is good enough to get in, he or she is also getting into an Ivy or NESCAC. HC or Harvard, Yale or Dartmouth, Middlebury, Williams, etc." This is just not the case. I played four years of lacrosse at HC. Senior year of high school I took official recruiting visits to Yale, Williams, Amherst, HC and Colgate. I didn't get into Yale and didn't like Amherst or Williams. My choice was between Colgate and HC and it was a no brainer. I agree that HC "is a fallback school for many students these days". Many of my classmates (and teammates) did not get into an Ivy and chose HC over a NESCAC school.

While I was at HC we had many recruits whom did not "get in" to HC. But we didn't lose the majorit of them to the Ivies or NESCAC. We lost them to Providence, Manhattan, Fairfield and Lafayette. I don't have a problem with that at all. Some of those are better lacrosse schools but they are not on par academically. Of course there are anecdotal examples of good students not getting in to HC for whatever reason but I can tell you flat out that Admissions has not significantly hurt the lacrosse team. I believe you'll have to look to Dick Regan and the Athletic Department if you want to assign blame.

I completely agree that "the travel arrangments were made by the AD not the coaching staff" (paraphrase). Completely unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.

You also post "If you belive HC can be a Top 20 team in 3 years, you really are not a fan of the game or probably never played at a high level." I don't even know where to start with this. I have played on and coached state championship high school lacrose teams. Above, I posted that I played at HC and I believe I have seen 200+ college lacrosse games in my life. And I completely stand by the statement that HC can be in the Top 20 in 3 years. The only PL teams NOT to be ranked in the Top 20 at some point in the last four years are Lafayette and HC. The PL schools are similar academically. We recruit more or less the same student-athletes. (95% of recruits/players I've met have had at least one other official visit to a PL school.) You can go 4-3 in the league and be ranked. Why do you believe HC is incapable of this?

You go on to list several of the top programs in the country and say that "to suggest this [HC] program can be on par with [these other programs] is pie in the sky." If we could compete with those programs (almost all of whom were in the NCAA tournament this past year) that would be great. But we don't even have to set our sights that high. Navy is the only PL team that can compete with those schools. How about going 5-2 or 4-3 in league play, beating one or two Ivies in non-league games and making the NCAA tournament. Totally realistic and should be a 3-5 year goal of the program. To suggest that we should play in the MAAC with Siena, Marist and Manhattan is insane. Why would we voluntarily downgrade (both academically and athletically) our conference affiliation?

Now to the part that we both agree upon. The Athetic Department is dysfunctional. Regan has to go. Money is part of the problem (HC has the smallest lacrosse budget in the PL) but it is not the only (or biggest) problem. In my time at HC I saw lacrosse players shoveling a snow-covered field before a game and driving themselves to several away games (versus UMass and University of Hartford). Way to run a Division I program in one of the most competitive conferences in the country. Dick Regan is a clown.

I'm out.

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[> [> [> [> Re: HC LAX ASSIST Coach -- PROTON, 19:09:48 06/23/04 Wed

He left. He was only part time.

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[> [> Dogger -- greg.neufeld, 01:20:13 06/24/04 Thu

Does anyone actually think that Dick Reagan is going to do something positive for this program? They could have Bill Tierney coaching the team, but when you can't even afford to pay for balls for practice, you have a little problem. AD probably just took this guy because he and was willing to keep his mouth shut and accept the little support that he will be given. The AD has absolutely no interest in improving this program, and I feel bad for Coach Pascal that he is going to have to put up with stuff that he is going to have to endure for however long he is at HC.

HC needs to realize that our lacrosse team is in one of the best leagues in the nation right now. We had 3-4 top 25 teams this year, including 1 team in the National Championship game. It would not be that hard for the school to bring in a lot of money and a lot of great recruits, both athletes and students, if they just put a little bit of effort into it. However, this is not going to happen with Dick Reagan in charge. The man is a complete moron. Oh and by the way, did anyone happen to see who St. John's just got as their new head coach. Cmon, St. Johns..... now that is a move in a positive direction.

Greg Neufeld

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[> [> [> Re: Dogger -- greg neufeld yes, again, 01:22:21 06/24/04 Thu

let me hear what you have to say.
Im not trying to be a jerk, I am just so very frustrated by this school and its athletic department. I worked my ass off for them for four years, and didnt get the least bit of respect. They just dont care, and its not going to change yet. I think we need a lot more pissed off people to make it happen. Mike McCaffrey was fired as head coach because he tried to challenge the athletic program in order to build the HC lax team to a competitive level. If coach Pascal has any hopes of doing this he is going to encounter the same problems. Its easy to be happy about this new coach and a new start, but the reality is that this is not going to solve anything.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Nothing Farther From the Truth -- NTKHC64, 09:09:45 06/24/04 Thu

"Mike McCaffrey was fired as head coach because he tried to challenge the athletic program in order to build the HC lax team to a competitive level."

My understanding and this is confirmed by administration and two parents of team members is that just the opposite is the case. Coach McCaffrey's termination was brought about by significant deficiencies in recruiting and other aspects of coaching.

If "They just dont care" then why was there any change made?
Wouldn't they just let the status quo prevail?

Under Regan, we've had new coaches appointed in football, men's basketball, and women's soccer. The qualifications of all are well known and Coach Willard has turned around a program that had fallen off in performance tremendously after the departure of Coach Blaney.

So let us know how Coach McCaffrey challenged the athletic program. While you are at it, perhaps you can explain what hard work you did for four years that earned you no respect.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Nothing Farther From the Truth -- greg.neufeld, 13:24:37 06/24/04 Thu

Well, your "understanding" is incorrect. I know Coach McCaffrey very well and i know what he went through in his years at HC. Deficiency in recruting? What does that mean. The man had no shot. How was he suppossed to recruit when he had nothing to offer, and absolutely no help from the administration. Honestly, who would actually want to play for Holy Cross?
"Why was any change made?" if they just dont care... Because they were sick of listening to coach McCaffrey arguing for some help with the team. They want someone who is going to sit there and accept that they are not important in the eyes of the Athletic Department or the Administration.
Yes, of course Dick made changes with the football and basketball teams, and yes coach Willard has done an excellent job. That is not what I am arguing here, he has no respect for the lacrosse team, and he has no desire to put some real effort into making it better.
Did you play on the team? Did you have to put up with Dick Regan's crap while "working your ass off" for a team and a sport and a school that you loved?
Im not even arguing that they Should put more effort into lacrosse, my point is that I wouldnt be so excited by this new coaching move, and i wouldnt by Dick's bullshit about moving in a new direction. The only direction he wants this team to move is into the ground.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Nothing Farther From the Truth -- Lax Sympathizer, 16:05:46 07/01/04 Thu

I find it comical that NTKHC64 can champion the quality of Dick Regan's coaching hires during his tenure. Look no further than the baseball team as proof that "non-revenue" sports (as if any of HC's sports provide the school w/revenue) are simply overlooked under his administration. First, Mr. Regan hired Paul Pearl to replace Coach Whalen...as if coaching a hockey program that was in transition to Division I was not enough on the man's plate (read: a convenient way to save money). Pearl did as best he could given the circumstances. After it had become clear (even to Regan) that it was ridiculous for Pearl to coach two Division I programs, Regan hired 68 year old assistant coach Fran O'Brien. Pearl's teams had just made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, and Regan responds by giving the head job to a man that he would no doubt have to replace within the next few years (as it wound up, O'Brien stayed for 3 forgettable seasons). Was there ever a search for a new coach? An interview process? Did Regan even realize that he passed on an excellent assistant coach with stellar credentials and a good rapport with the players in Steve Englert? I'd assume not. I'm glad to see that Craig Najarian now has the job, but he, like the new lacrosse coach, face an uphill battle regarding budgets, recruiting, etc. There is no reason that every sport at HC should not be able to compete WITHIN the Patriot League. Dick Regan should be held accountable.

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[> [> [> Re: NEW MEN'S LACROSSE COACH -- dadominate, 11:54:47 06/23/04 Wed

what statistical method did you use to come up with the "Holy Cross and Lafayette are statistically the easiest Partiot League schools to get into"?

something tells me someone here is speaking out of his ass.
or maybe this is what they mean when they say there are lies, damned lies, and statistics?

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[> [> [> [> Read it and weep -- STATMAN, 12:34:55 06/23/04 Wed

Sorry, LEHIGH and Holy Cross

from princetonreview.com college profiles website:

% of applicants admitted:

Holy Cross 42%
Lehigh 40%
Bucknell 38%
Lafayette 36%
Colgate 31%
USMA 13%
USNA 10%

If you think these are wrong, find better ones. Unfortunately HC's website doesn't seem to provide the same data as lots of other college websites.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Read it and weep -- kesiwick, 12:57:24 06/23/04 Wed

Princeton Review "selectivity rating" on a scale of 0-100 follows:

West Point -- 99
Annopolis -- 99
Colgate -- 95
Holy Cross -- 92
Bucknell -- 91
Lehigh -- 88
Lafayette - 86

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Read it and weep -- XSader, 13:00:29 06/23/04 Wed

However, as per the same website...HC's admissions selectivity rating is a 93, placing us well above schools like Bucknell, Lehigh, and Lafayette. The ratio of applications to admitted students is not necessarily indicative of how difficult it is to get into a particular college.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> My two cents -- 2003 Grad, 13:46:23 06/23/04 Wed

It is pretty pathetic when grown men are debating the superiority of Patriot League schools. These schools are ALL excellent and offer different opportunities for everybody. Only a na�ve person would base their college selection on a college ranking. While one school might be 20 and another is 9, does that mean that the higher ranked school is necessarily better for all prospective students. On the other hand, if one is to rely solely on rankings, is a school that is ranked 5, 6 or 10 places higher then another school �better�. It is necessary to research what criteria is weighted most heavily when using multiple ranking guides. To be honest I personally believe that Holy Cross, like many other Catholic schools, is poorly ranked by the US News due to the weight given to �peer assessment rank� and �financial resources rank�. While we have improved in the latter of the two criteria, like other catholic schools we are not assessed as highly as we deserve by our �peers�. This is evident by the fact that every year we rank in the top five in graduation rank while our �predicted graduation rank� (as determined by the guide) is around 10% lower. I only know this in detail due to a paper that I wrote in a sociology course at HC involving a similar topic.

In the end though, all these facts, data and rankings are really not what is important. The main criteria to the superiority of a college is whether you can say that you graduated from a school with great memories, great friends, and with a sense of pride and much confidence as you take your next steps in life.

Oh yeah�if some one going to through stats at me regarding HC I just tell them to look up Barrons Top 50 Colleges Guide (Lib Arts and University)�only PL schools with rep��gate and the cross

I still say the ranking should be based on the female student population though�I would have gone to UT

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: My two cents -- BeatBC, 14:18:24 06/23/04 Wed

I agree with '2003 Grad' - this bickering about the quality of different schools is tiresome to read and spectacularly uninformative. While I always proclaim Holy Cross as the best college in the country, I do so openly acknowledging my bias and without bad mouthing other schools...except, of course, BC, on which any right-thinking person would agree...
We had some decent Lacrosse teams in the '80's and I believe we can improve again. The sudden high-profile of Patriot League Lacrosse (this was Navy's 1st year in the league) and the fact that they included the Lacrosse program in the new athletic fund-raising scheme are good signs.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: My two cents -- STATMAN, 16:10:07 06/23/04 Wed

Sorry for provoking a Patriot League debate. "THERE ARE PLENTY OF LACROSSE PLAYERS WITH THE ACADEMIC GOODS NECESSARY TO GET INTO HOLY CROSS!" was the key point of the paragraph in the first e-mail. I'm not trying to judge whether our school is any better or worse than our peer group. Those schools get lacrosse players admitted....8-10 a year.....we should be able to as well. It just takes an organized and dedicated effort.

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[> [> [> Re: NEW MEN'S LACROSSE COACH -- laxalum, 07:31:06 06/24/04 Thu

STATMAN,

I disagree with you statement that many players of the top players just showed up at Holy Cross.

While I was there we had the likes of Brian Hodgdon - Goalie, who was Coach McCaff's first recruit upon taking the job in January 2000. Hodgie went on to become the 2nd best goalie in HC history. He was Academic All-New England, played in the NE Senior All-Star game and, the Warrior Lacrosse Challenge game which is a game between the Top 33 college players in the country.

Also recruited were Edmond Yip, a High School All-American out of Moses Brown and Choate. He has done nothing but win the teams Defensive Player of the Year each year since arriving on the hill. Billy Klotz, another High School All-American out of Pinkerton Academy in NH. Billy was named Rookie of the Week and Player of the Week by the Patriot League his Freshman year and has been one of the team point leaders the last two. Mike McKee out of the Lawrenceville School and Suffern, NY. Did not get into Harvard so he came to Worcester. Great compliment to Klotz on attack and will challenge the all-time assist totals by the time he finishes next spring. Other recruits of note in my time were Greg Kelly, Dan Atchinson, Rich Espinal, Pat Sullivan, Derek Lemley, Tanner Fogarty, Joe Drum, Pat McCurdy, John O'Sullivan....Some good players always show up at the last minute, too. Coach McCaff alway has open tryouts in the fall to evaluate these players. Each year he would keep a couple and for the most part they panned out.

The best HS players are NOT coming to HC. We seem to attract the 2nd and 3rd line players from good programs that saw very little pt in HS. The top notch, impact type players never looked at us - why would they? So they could shovel the turf and buy their own equipment?

Granted, Coach did not always get the kids he brought on campus in the fall, but that is where the program is at this point. It's a very hard sell when these very same recruits go to other PL schools and have to listen to other coaches question the commitment of HC to the sport of lacrosse. This happened to me at two PL schools when I mentioned that I would also be visiting HC.

The bottom line is Coach McCaff and Coach O received very little help from the Regan or others in the administration. There is only so far those guys could have lugged the mail by themselves and I think they did, not doubt.

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[> [> [> [> Re: NEW MEN'S LACROSSE COACH -- Rick, 08:54:04 06/24/04 Thu

" Mike McKee out of the Lawrenceville School and Suffern, NY. Did not get into Harvard so he came to Worcester. "

That might be the first time I've ever heard of a Lawrenceville grad not being accepted to Harvard. Do you know if he applied/was accepted to any other Ivy schools ?

$26,000 per at Lawrenceville with a campus/facilities/endowment better than many colleges/universities....grads are usually headed Ivy, UVA, Duke, Wake Forest, Rice, Michigan or Northwestern.

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[> [> [> [> Recruiting -- PROTON, 13:10:00 06/24/04 Thu

I'm not sure which of you is right, but five of the six top scorers this year were not recruited...just ask 'em. Some of those "recruits" you listed were not recruited. Some of those "notables" you listed were substitutes, and according to available stats, did not play in many games. I think it's fair to say, for whatever reason, that recruiting, and depth, is an issue for this program. Hopefully that will change with the arrival of the new coach.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Recruiting -- brine, 13:59:21 06/24/04 Thu

Not only were 5 of the top 6 scorers not recruited, in most cases their efforts to get on Mccafrey's radar screen were ignored. Once these athletes made the team and were successful, he claimed them as his recruits when in fact he did nothing to get them into the school. They each got in on their own with no help from Mccafrey so the notion that admissions is the problem is simply not true. He routinely missed or was late to meetings with recruits and their families this past fall. Additionally, the school has changed its fund raising protocols to allow restricted gifts to lacrosse. Over $100,000 has been pledged in this effort. 1-30 record in the Patriot League during his 5 years was simply not acceptable. If Mccafrey was so frustrated by his relationship with admissions and the AD, why didn't he leave to pursue his considerable talents elsewhere? The school has made a change. We are moving forward and doing what needs to be done to have a successful program for the school and our lax athletes. The hiring of Coach Pascal is the 1st step.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Recruiting -- brine, 14:00:52 06/24/04 Thu

Not only were 5 of the top 6 scorers not recruited, in most cases their efforts to get on Mccafrey's radar screen were ignored. Once these athletes made the team and were successful, he claimed them as his recruits when in fact he did nothing to get them into the school. They each got in on their own with no help from Mccafrey so the notion that admissions is the problem is simply not true. He routinely missed or was late to meetings with recruits and their families this past fall. Additionally, the school has changed its fund raising protocols to allow restricted gifts to lacrosse. Over $100,000 has been pledged in this effort. 1-30 record in the Patriot League during his 5 years was simply not acceptable. If Mccafrey was so frustrated by his relationship with admissions and the AD, why didn't he leave to pursue his considerable talents elsewhere? The school has made a change. We are moving forward and doing what needs to be done to have a successful program for the school and our lax athletes. The hiring of Coach Pascal is the 1st step.

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[> [> lacrosse problems -- dadominate, 11:28:13 06/24/04 Thu

in order to be succesful, first and foremost the HC lacrosse program really just needs a committment from the athletic department.

unlike basketball and football, the admissions office has very little to do with the lack of success in my eyes. how many of the top lacrosse players out there were non-qualifiers with academic problems? not many. do any of you really think we aren't getting great players b/c admissions is turning them away? if so, you need to get real. for the most part, the country's best lacrosse players go to excellent private schools or public schools in generally wealthy areas. therefore, they are usually at least decent students.

my high school is one of the top teams in the best league in the country (the MIAA) - send guys to princeton, hopkins, syracuse, etc. every year. i don't remember anyone on any team in my years there who would have been a huge stretch for any admissions department at any school. people don't like to generalize, but lacrosse players are generally good students.

admissions isn't the problem with lacrosse, it's the lack of a financial resources dedicated to the program. hc COULD become a power in lacrosse. our academic standards wouldn't hurt us the way they do in basketball and football. i'm from baltimore where lacrosse is huge so i'll admit i'm biased, but i would like to see us make more of a commitment to the lacrosse program b/c it's one of the few sports we could truly become nationally competitive in with some effort.

p.s. i know you're proud of your home state, but as for lacrosse ntk, forget about new jersey! the HC roster this year didn't have a single kid from the state of maryland! i would be willing to bet that there isn't a single other D-1 team with a winning record that did not have at least one kid from maryland. watching the final four this year was like watching one of the maryland all-star games.

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[> [> Re: Look to NJ/Rick - '64 -- Rick, 11:28:27 06/25/04 Fri

Re: CBA

You're in a much better position than I on the Colt's profile. Yes, I'm aware of the Duerr youngster and his stature statewide in NJ. We definately should be getting more kids out of CBA in all sports. Wasn't there a former Colt swimmer that went to HC a couple years ago ? In the past we've mentioned Vito Charvralotti, AIR was a 2-sport AA for CBA ( swimming and baseball ), who starred on the diamond at Richmond ( nearly single-handidly knocked Wake Forest out of the NCAA's 2 years ago )and more recently the Scroki(sp) kid in hoops at Richmond. Generally speaking, does CBA send/place many students at HC annually ?

Delbarton - This is a pretty preppy/rich kid's type school with about a 500 all-male enrollment. They are heavily in to Notre Dame, BC, Penn, Princeton, Dartmouth and Duke on placements annually. AIR, one of our hockey recruits this year is Dale Rheinhardt(sp), one of the top players/scorers ( and an excellent student I'm told ) in NJ this past season. Like CBA, Delbarton annually has a cracker-jack hockey club. Very unusual/rare for HC to land a Delbarton kid and one with athletic credentials like this. They also have an outstanding lacrosse program annually. Again, I don't think HC is high on their guidance placement list annually.

Seton Hall Prep - I remember Brandon Doria being a wiz-bang hockey player at HC after a steller Prep career at SHP where I believe he led them to a couple state championships and garnered NJ POY honors his Senior year. Why no follow-up recruiting at this perennial hockey powerhouse in NJ ? I see they also made some statewide noise in lacrosse this past season. I would think there are some recruits there, you agree ? Again, it appears SHP places alot of their grads with BC, Gtown, ND, Yale and Penn with HC down the pecking order annually.

St. Peter's Prep - This used to be a desired pipeline school for HC - particularly in football and baseball. Don't know about their lacrosse program.

Mountain Lakes HS - This is a relatively small public school located in a predominately wealthy small town that has an outstanding lacrosse program - for girls AND boys. Plus, this school is ranked very high academically. Why don't we recruit here....or do we ?

Ridgewood HS - same story/profile as Mountain Lakes, you agree ? Are we recruiting here for both the men's AND women's lacrosse teams ?

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[> [> [> Re: Look to NJ/Rick - '64 -- GardenState, 12:28:09 06/25/04 Fri

Delbarton publishes their list: 10-12 kids each year to BC, Georgetown and Villanova. 5-6 to Notre Dame. 10-12 each year to Colgate as well, but not many to other Patriot League schools. Actually, not many to Duke. Lots to NESCAC and Ivies. Only 2-3 per year to Holy Cross. Would appear to be either lack of student interest, or lack of relationship with guidance.

Notice on the Holy Cross roster that there are some New Jersey kids, but no kids following behind them from their respective schools. That says something. It would seem that NJ Parochial schools would be logical feeders to HC lacrosse. NJ kids have been contacted by Holy Cross coaches on the basis of summer camps. There has not been consistent follow-up. Part of the problem.

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[> [> [> Re: Look to NJ/Rick - '64 -- hcfAN, 16:23:18 06/25/04 Fri

I can't believe I'm responding to you, but....

1. Delbarton-HC pipleine is very strong in general. Average at least 4/5 kids per class. At least 10 Delbarton lacrosse players at HC over past 7-8 years.
2. NJ HS hockey stinks compared to NE Preps and Canada. Doria and Reinhardt have been the best players in the state and we've gotten them. Probably only 2/3 kids per year at best from NJ public/Catholics that can play at HC, and not all can get in.
3. How do either of you have any idea how much HC coaches follow up in a given year? Just because there aren't always kids the class after from the same school. Weak.

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[> [> [> [> To: hcfAN -- Rick, 18:01:40 06/25/04 Fri

I can't either.

" 1. Delbarton-HC pipleine is very strong in general. Average at least 4/5 kids per class. At least 10 Delbarton lacrosse players at HC over past 7-8 years. "

3 Delbarton students entered HC in 2003.

There's ONE Delbarton kid on the most recent lacrosse roster - and he's a frosh. Where are all these 10 Delbarton players over the past 4 years of your 'past 7-8 years' ?

" 2. NJ HS hockey stinks compared to NE Preps and Canada. Doria and Reinhardt have been the best players in the state and we've gotten them. Probably only 2/3 kids per year at best from NJ public/Catholics that can play at HC, and not all can get in. "

You might wanna do some homework next time around.

Some web searching shows that Debarton and Seton Hall Prep have been consistantly defeating Fairfield Prep, LaSalle (RI), Mt. Saint Charles ( RI ), St. Thomas Aquinas ( NH ), Concord ( NH ), Centennial Regional ( Quebec ) and Xaverian Brothers ( MA ) ON THE ROAD over the past few seasons.

Oh and Rheinhardt from Delbarton and Doria from SHP going direct to HC - that's somewhat unusual. Many of NJ's top hockey kids either skip their senior year or, after graduating, head to one of the PG Prep schools in Connecticut for a year or two to polish their games.

Oh again....the day a kid - any kid - from Delbarton can't get into Holy Cross will be a long time coming.

" 3. How do either of you have any idea how much HC coaches follow up in a given year? Just because there aren't always kids the class after from the same school. Weak. "

Speaking only for myself, I don't....which is why I asked about recruiting.

Delbarton, Seton Hall Prep and CBA have been the dominant hockey programs in New Jersey going on TWENTY + years. They seem to take turns winning the overall state championship every year. The lone consistant challenger to their collective dominance over the years has been Brick HS, a public school.

All annually have players graduating capable of playing regular shifts for HC.

In lacrosse, Delbarton has been ranked either #1 or #2 annually for AT LEAST the past several seasons. As mentioned above, CBA has an excellent program as do Mountain Lakes and Ridgewood - two public schools with highly regarded academic reps.

Does HC recruit these schools ?

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[> [> [> Re: Look to NJ/Rick - '64 -- GardenState, 20:43:44 06/25/04 Fri

Guys, your information is not quite correct. Holy Cross is hard to get into...Delbarton kids do get rejected. Only about 3 a year go. The school has better success with BC and Villanova and as a result more kids apply, and go, to those schools. Part of it is that those schools are bigger. And, Worcester is a consideration.

I question whether there has really been a long string of Delbarton lacrosse players at Holy Cross. The last one before the current freshman quit last fall.

Lacrosse recruiting by Holy Cross has been weak in NJ and everywhere else. There's an earlier post in this string....5 of the 6 leading scorers were not recruits. Recruits sit on the bench behind walk-ons. One or two contributing recruits a year does not make for a great program when your competitors are getting 6-8. There's not much follow-on from schools because kids don't come home at Christmas with great stories about the program.

That's probably part of the reason there's a new coach. This stuff needed to be fixed.

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[> [> REVISION -- Rick, 18:34:13 06/25/04 Fri

" Some web searching shows that Debarton and Seton Hall Prep have been consistantly defeating Fairfield Prep, LaSalle (RI), Mt. Saint Charles ( RI ), St. Thomas Aquinas ( NH ), Concord ( NH ), Centennial Regional ( Quebec ) and Xaverian Brothers ( MA ) ON THE ROAD over the past few seasons. "

If I may I'd like to correct/revise this.

1) Adding CBA to SHP and Debarton,

2) Changing verbage from 'defeating' to 'consistantly winning or playing close games with'

3) Adding teams in PA. and NY State and NE/Quebec as follows - Meadville ( PA ), Portledge ( NY ), LaSalle ( PA ), Cheverus ( ME ) and Edward Little ( ME ).

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[> [> [> Re: Delbarton/HC Lax -- HCFan, 22:08:52 06/25/04 Fri

Greg Marino, Bill DiSpaltro, Ryan Dooley, Joe Stefans, John Suminski, Jeff Spittel, Grant Cowherd+++