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Plymouth Argaum Club Badge
Welcome to the archived Plymouth Argaum RFC message board.
Please note that the forum has now moved to the main site at www.argaum.org.uk

Plymouth Argaum RFC home page

  • The Evans Factor -- Phil Evans, 23:35:36 02/08/02 Fri
    Argaum RFC has suffered severely since the loss of the instrumental leader at the bar and on the field of Phil Evans.

    I can confirm that Phil is a little fatter and has a little less hair and is residing in Caterham and is Warlinghams 4th Team captain and has become the proud father of Samuel.

    Would welcome to hear from ex team mates and friends especially ex drinking partners. e mail philip.evans@joinercummings.co.uk

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  • Fat props -- TOMMO, 23:31:27 02/07/02 Thu
    Get healed soon Richard you big wuss.
    ps wheres my tickets to England v Wales.
    Also may the great game rest in peace for
    Welsh rugby. All the best

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  • Six Nations International Tickets -- rb, 00:00:58 10/16/01 Tue
    Today (Tuesday 16th) is the last chance to get your name down for Six Nations Tickets (ENG-WAL, ENG-IRE) or ENG away matches. Please get your name down on the club noticeboard by tonight (that's a good enough reason to attend training).

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  • National Coverage -- rb, 12:58:36 01/28/02 Mon
    We've got national coverage in this month's RFU Touchline Newspaper click here to view.

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  • SIx nations Fantasy Competition -- rb, 13:12:16 01/30/02 Wed
    A SIX APPEAL!
    You can win international tickets and a host of other goodies by pitting your wits against rugby fans from around the globe in our special Fantasy Six Nations competition.
    Click here for more information.

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  • SIx nations Fantasy Competition -- rb, 13:11:37 01/30/02 Wed
    A SIX APPEAL!
    You can win international tickets and a host of other goodies by pitting your wits against rugby fans from around the globe in our special Fantasy Six Nations competition.
    Click here for more information.

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  • Herald Reports from the weekend -- rb, 12:44:22 01/29/02 Tue
    Friendlies Plymouth Argaum Chiefs...17 Okehampton II...17

    DESPITE going 7-0 down from the kick-off and trailing to a second Okehampton try, the Chiefs' Phil Hall pulled back a try close to 40 minutes, and with Andy Critchley's conversion, were 12-7 behind at half-time.

    Okehampton went in unconverted again on the hour, but Argaum pressure was converted to points with a second Hall try. With five minutes remaining, Hall brought it level with his hat-trick.

    Argaum Tigers...7 DHSOB Wizards...17

    ARGAUM went down against the Wizards for the second time in seven days, but the margin was much closer than last weeks' 87-pointer.

    Tigers' forwards showed improvement, taking ball against head, but the pace of the Old Boys' backs won them the game.

    DHS were leading 12-0 at the break with the back row of Scott Taylor, Simon Fernandez and Sean Kedzia winning the breakdowns.

    Evergreen fly-half Chris Goodman marshalled his backs, and three Devonport tries came from centres Jim Moss, Tom Maher and winger Justin Corley.

    The Tigers hit back with a penalty try from a pushover scrum, with flanker Lloyd Gould adding the conversion with 15 minutes remaining.

    But despite plaudits for West Midlands exchange referee Richard Scutt, the tightly fought match closed with the Old Boys' Mark Scannell sent off in the last minute.

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  • Willsy's latest -- Paul V, 17:31:16 01/25/02 Fri
    Yeah life is hard out here , blowing a gale and raining all the time, still
    very hot.
    Keep on winning and get out of that leauge,
    basterds!!!! can not believe you are going to Dublin for the next tour, very
    much doubt it, will be back for the start of April not the end . I love
    ireland, If any thing changes you will be the first to know
    We are changing crews at the moment so who knows what is going on!
    Send our best wishes to everyone.
    Stay in touch
    All the best

    Darren and Kaye

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  • Steve Chappell -- rb, 19:23:48 01/22/02 Tue
    If anybody's got contact details for Steve could you please email them to me.

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  • You know when it's time to lose weight when...... -- rb, 19:19:13 01/22/02 Tue
    ....it takes 6 (yes six) men to stretcher you off the park (and some of those were props). Seriously though, many thanks to all who helped me out on Saturday, much appreciated. Guess it gives me more time to work on the website.

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  • Saturday 19th Jan -- Reesy, 09:12:05 01/18/02 Fri
    Both teams at home this weekend. 1sts vs OPM Academicals, 2nds vs DHSOB wizards. 2.30 kick-offs.

    I'm with Toby: p**s off Willsy.

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  • plenty of sunshine -- willsy, 13:54:39 01/17/02 Thu
    hi everyone
    what a place to be the carribean, it is hot, tits every
    where. how are things going?
    miss playing, will be back for a holiday soon!!
    sombody drop us a line or two

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  • Cracking Win Lads -- rb, 18:20:45 01/14/02 Mon
    ARGAUM CHIEFS USE SLOPE TO COAST TO AN AWAY-DAY VICTORY

    Chiefs

    ARGAUM did themselves a favour with a good victory at Buckfastleigh.

    Using the slope at The Cricket Ground, three tries from scrum-half Danny Morgan, wingers Mike Louise and Andy Critchley, with a Steve Tomlinson conversion, were only matched by a Steve Chapple penalty in the first half.

    The Chiefs' fortunes could have turned with the change of ends but Argaum held their ground as flanker Mark Bancroft and fly-half Steve Chapple fought back with second-half tries.

    But two penalties from Argaum's Steve Tomlinson took the well-deserved league points back to Roborough.

    Tigers

    IT WAS end-to-end stuff at Roborough where visitors Bodmin took their chances to lead 10-0 at the interval thanks to two tries from fly-half Joe Munday.

    Immediately after the break centre Wayne Lownes hauled one back for the Tigers who looked to be turning the result around.

    But indiscipline close to the Argaum posts saw Bodmin elect to run the ball, and burly winger Dan Murphy crashed through to keep his side out of trouble.

    Argaum centre Steve Howard ran around the Bodmin backs to score out wide, but Munday popped in for his hat-trick and added the conversion to reinstate the difference.

    A tap penalty move had Tigers scrum-half Tony Dibble nip in for a try but it was too late make a mark.

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  • Saturday 12th January -- andy rees, 10:19:10 01/11/02 Fri
    1sts away to Buckfastleigh - league match, 1215 meet at Novotel.
    2nds at home to Bodmin II. 1300 meet at the club.
    Both for 2.30 kick off

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  • Saturday 5th January -- andy rees, 09:10:21 01/04/02 Fri
    Both of our arranged fixtures for this weekend have been cancelled by the opposition. We have now got a club game versus Civil Service at home, 2.30 kick-off.

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  • Boxing Day -- rb, 16:47:56 01/02/02 Wed
    Can anyone send/post me details of the Boxing Day match, score & scorers etc.

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  • Blwyddyn Newydd Dda! -- rb, 16:44:50 01/02/02 Wed
    A belated happy New Year to all site visitors!

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  • New Year -- Stuwie Q, 14:27:35 12/31/01 Mon
    It's beenbloomin ages since some1 left a message here, so I thought that it was about time i left one myself.
    What's the plan for tonite Ritchie? (at the club i mean). I'm hoping to get well bladdered in the good company of some of my Pals that my ongoing injuries have prevented me fom committing such acts with this season.
    I just need to know the plan of action.

    Hope U all had a good x-mas and good luck to us all in the coming year. On the field and off.

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  • Tigers are one game away from glory! -- rb, 23:42:41 12/12/01 Wed
    The semi-finals of the Pedrick Cup have been made as follows.

    St. Columba v Argaum Tigers (II)
    Tamar Saracens II v OPM III

    Ties to be played 3/4 Feb 2002.

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  • Tuskers - 9th December -- Andy Rees, 09:50:33 12/07/01 Fri
    Unfortunately this Sunday's fixture has been cancelled (by us)due to a lack of available players - two definites and a couple of maybe's is stretching it even for a Sunday game!

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  • sing along with Duffy -- SR, 20:39:44 12/05/01 Wed
    With both teams at home on Saturday, there is a go chance to have some fun in our club house after the games.
    Pete is going to perform some of his best loved old rugby songs which we can sing along to. please support this if you can (he may need some help with the words).

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  • Saturday 8th December -- Reesy, 09:54:14 12/05/01 Wed
    Both teams at home this weekend versus PRWF. 1430 kick-off, meet 1300.

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  • Saturdays Game... -- Glyn, 16:15:23 11/30/01 Fri
    AAARGH! Im stuck in work all night again (damned servers!!!!) again so I wont be able to make tomorrow. I will get back up as soon as I kick these computers into some sort of stable shape. Hopefully Tuesday.

    Can someone let Andy Rees know please? I can't get to a phone from here. Only a leased line internet connection.

    Cheers

    Glyn

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  • Saturday 1st December -- Andy Rees, 10:13:10 11/29/01 Thu
    Both teams away this week, 1sts at North Tawton, 2nds at Okehampton. Meet at the clubhouse 1200. Unfortunately I couldn't get a coach, so cars it is.

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  • Kids Xmas Party -- rb, 01:56:54 11/29/01 Thu
    Don't forget the KIDS XMAS PARTY this Sunday. Details of this and the XMAS Dinner are on the social page.

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  • Social -- Stu Q, 15:52:13 11/21/01 Wed
    Up coming socials in mind are;
    * Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?
    * Bar Quiz
    * Bar Olympics
    * New Years Eve Party
    * Gentleman's Evening

    (Do you think we should book the same company again?)

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  • Salcombe -- Richard Atkinson Rock Fort RFC, 17:56:34 11/19/01 Mon
    Spectators be warned when you travel down to Salcombe, they expect spectators to pay £2.50 to get into the ground.

    I think this is a bit steep to watch Devon Three Rugby

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  • Gentleman's Evening -- rb, 11:54:10 11/18/01 Sun
    Well done Stuie on organsing an excellent evening.

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  • come on the greens win win win win -- willsy, 13:53:20 11/17/01 Sat
    things can only get better,lets have no losses after the new year or I might be back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Hope you are all well, give phil Hall a kick up the ass (dt)

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  • Services match off -- rb, 19:02:01 11/16/01 Fri
    Unfortunately, Devonport Services have called off tommorow's match with the Chiefs. However the Tigers are still playing at Saltash, and don't forget the Gentleman's Evening at 7:30pm.

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  • Couple of Law Changes -- rb, 22:46:22 11/15/01 Thu
    From our friends at 'HQ',
    Don't fancy 'squeeze ball' much myself though.

    Law 3.10
    Amend

    10 TEMPORARY REPLACEMENT

    (a) When a player leaves the field to have bleeding controlled and/or have an open wound covered , that player may be temporarily replaced. If the player who has been temporarily replaced does not return to the field-of-play within 15 minutes of leaving the playing area, the replacement becomes permanent and the replaced player must not return to the field-of-play

    (b) If the temporary replacement is injured, that player may also be replaced.

    (c) If the temporary replacement is sent off for foul play, the replaced player may not return to the field-of-play

    (d) If a temporary replacement is cautioned and temporarily suspended, the replaced player may not return to the field-of-play until after the period of suspension.

    INTERPRETATION OF LAW 15 6 (d) -THE TACKLED PLAYER

    Law 15.6 (d) states

    “A tackled player may release the ball by pushing it along the ground in any direction except forward, providing this is done immediately.”

    In recent times players having been tackled or who go to ground have done so ensuring that the ball is underneath them, they then push the ball along the ground and through their legs (a practice known as squeeze ball).

    On most occasions when players attempt to push the ball along the ground under their bodies they are not making the ball available immediately and they are in contravention of Law 14.1 and Law 15. 6(d). Players who attempt the action are liable to penalty unless the ball is immediately available.

    Unions are requested to adopt Domestic Variations which makes the action, referred to as the squeeze ball, illegal for all age levels from under 18 downwards.

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  • GENTLEMAN'S EVENING -- Stu Q, 18:51:06 11/14/01 Wed
    Tickets are on sale!!!!!!!
    IT'S ON SATURDAY!!!

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  • Is there any one out there? -- Stu Q, 18:49:44 11/14/01 Wed
    Ritchie, does anyone look at the web-site any more?

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  • BAR OLYMPICS -- Stu Q, 20:48:03 11/11/01 Sun
    The 2nd Plymouth Argaum Official Bar Olympics!
    **Today, we held another Bar Olympics. Results and highlights are as follows.
    **Contestants: Critch, Louise, Taff C, Duffy, Darren T, Tommy, Stuwie Q, Jo W, Chris and Cheryl.

    1st- Stuwie Q (64pts)
    2nd- Andy C (54pts)
    3rd- Duffy (48pts)
    4th- Tommy (45pts)
    5th- Cheryl (30pts)
    6th- Jo W (22pts)
    7th- Taff C (16pts)
    8th- Chris (6pts)
    9th- Louise (2pts)
    10th- Darren T (-60pts)

    Highlights included Chris being Ruthlessly beaten by his Girlfriend Cheryl in the arm wrestle, whilst Dutch showed Louise no mercy in their encounter, enjoying every minute of his victory. Event one by Stuwie Q.

    The debut of the Bull Push proved eventfull, with mismatches such as Tommy v Chris and Stu v Cheryl (Cheryl won). Fun was had and event one by Duffy, showing such will to win and determination in defeating Jo, Stu and Tommy on his way to winning.

    Shove hap'ny proved to be close with Tommy Beating Duffy to win by knocking him off the table.

    Pitch-n-toss was won by Stuwie , but the drama came in the fight for 2nd place when we couldn't seperate Jo & Cheryl. Both were awarded 12pts.

    Spoof was won by Critch in a large game with a few elaborate guesses, which left some players quite baffled.

    One of the most shocking performances was missed my the majority in the Down-a-Pint event. When it came to Taff Cummins' go, the people who weren't paying attention missed it allas his pint was gone in just 3.49 seconds. Stuwie came 2nd with 11.9 seconds and it was as close as it gets for third as Tommy beat Critck by just 0.03 seconds with 12.27. Chris took a hard earned 53.27 seconds to finish, before rushing outside to deposit his pint behind the clubhouse, admirably cleaning up immediately.

    Thank you all for participating, and lets see a few more at the next.

    Can you take my title off me?

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  • Half Price International Ticket! -- rb, 08:20:05 11/09/01 Fri
    Due to a last minute withdrawal (very sensible) a single ticket has become available for tomorrow's international. Normally £39, the holder is willing to part with it for £20. Contact me ASAP at the usual email address or my mobile (which can be found on the club info page).

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  • Swiss Visitors. -- rb, 02:03:34 11/09/01 Fri
    Pictures from our recent swiss visitors can be found on the gallery page or by clicking here.

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  • any heard from Jock -- willsy, 10:26:11 11/08/01 Thu
    hello chaps
    we are now in Las Palmas
    Is Jock still working out this way??
    Any contact details??
    Will be heading out towards the carribean at the end of the month.
    Whats happening your way?
    Web site will be updated soon

    Willsy

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  • England v Australia Tickets! -- rb, 20:49:22 11/07/01 Wed
    There are a couple of tickets available for Saturday's international (£39 each). If you are interested please contact me ASAP.

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  • Sponsors -- Martyn Walker Plumbing & Heating, 21:29:53 11/06/01 Tue
    My mobile number has changed to 07711 530845

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  • SUNDAY GAME -- Andy Rees, 14:08:15 11/05/01 Mon
    We have a (as yet unconfirmed) game this sunday (11th November) versus Buckland at home approx. 1100 kick off, might need to delay start of committee meeting?

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  • ''Mini' BAR OLYMPICS' -- Stu Q, 11:44:43 11/05/01 Mon
    The resuls of the Bar Olympics are as follows:-

    NAME DownaPint Shove H'ney Pitch'n'toss ArmWrstle Spoof

    JOAN 3 4 4 3 8
    LOUISE 4 6 8 4 3
    ANDY C 8 5 12 5 12
    BARNEY 12 8 5 6 6
    STU 6 3 3 8 4
    SIMON R -2 12 6 12 5


    ***BAR OLYMPIC CHAMPION*** ANDY CRITCHLEY
    **RUNNER-UP** STEPHEN BARNES
    *3rd* SIMON ROBERTSON
    4 LOUISE
    5 STU Q
    6 JOAN

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  • SOCIAL EVENTS -- Stu Q, 11:31:17 11/05/01 Mon
    Firstly, thank all of you who attended the Bar Olympics on Sunday.

    The attendances for all of the social events this season has been on all accounts poor, but on sunday, we reached a new low. Up untill 2.20pm, Myself and Joan were the only people at the club house. This would be understandable if we had a double fixture and all 80 of our registered players were unavailable. However, the game that was arranged was cancelled and so I would have thought that there would be at least 15 first-teamers kicking their heels with nothing to do.

    Ultimately, this wasn't the case and the only reasonable explanaition that I can come up with is that no-one could be bothered.

    I put it to you all... How would you all feel if I couldn't be bothered to arrange a stag night, or a Players supper, or an end of season Dinner-Dance. There would be a few unhappy people out there.

    Please in future, at least try to attend a couple of Social Events.

    The bar olympics was after all arranged at the request of some players, not all of which turned up.

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  • Committee Meeting -- rb, 09:55:35 11/05/01 Mon
    Please note that this month's committee meeting has been brought forward to this Sunday (11th) at 12:30. If you have any issues to be raised then please email the secretary or speak to any of the committee.

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  • Match Action -- rb, 02:38:33 11/02/01 Fri
    Action from the Brixham match last week can be found via the Gallery page or by clicking here.

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  • Sunday's Match is OFF! -- Richard Belli, 21:05:53 11/01/01 Thu
    The Chiefs Lockie Cup match against Tavistock (due to be played on Sunday) is postponed and will be re-arranged for later in the season.

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  • Weekend Fixtures -- RB, 09:21:52 11/01/01 Thu
    Tavistock have got a national cup game on Saturday therefore our Lockie Cup Game has been switched to Sunday.

    Fixtures are now:

    Saturday 3rd November : Tigers V OPOs II (2:30 K.O.)
    Sunday 4th November : Chiefs V Tavistock (2:30 K.O.)

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  • Saturdays Game -- Glyn, 08:02:02 11/01/01 Thu
    Can someone post details for Saturday please, Im available if needed and will be there in support even if not. Been spending to much time in the big smoke lately, need to get back to some real Devon rugby! Farmer stlye...

    Glyn

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  • SUNDAY FIXTURE -- Reesy, 10:15:43 10/29/01 Mon
    Note for your diaries - Sunday fixture scheduled for 18th November versus Buckland has been rearranged, will now be on the 11th at home.
    Cup Matches this weekend coming - 3rd November, 1sts to play Tavistock away (Lockie), 2nds to play OPO 2nds at home (Ellis). Kick-off times to be confirmed, but likely 2.30.

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  • Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? LEADERBOARD -- Stu Q, 13:13:07 10/26/01 Fri
    1. Darren Truscott & Andy Critchley:- £500,000
    2. John & Yvonne:- £250,000
    =. John & Yvonne:- £250,000
    4. Darren Nicholls & Dave Nicholas:- £125,000

    Do you think that you can challenge?

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  • Who Wants To Be A Millionnaire!!! -- Stu Q, 13:07:38 10/26/01 Fri
    Just a reminder that The 3rd 'ARGAUM' Who wants to be a millionaire is taking place at the club on sunday afternoon. Usual time to start, around 1pm-1.30pm.
    I will be unable to attend and host as I'm working, so the temporary position as TARRANT is up for grabs...!

    JACKPOT IS NOW OVER £40.00!!!!!

    So come along and try for the Jackpot!!!

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  • 2nds -- Andy Rees, 10:05:45 10/25/01 Thu
    SATURDAY 27th OCTOBER!!!

    The arrangements for the game on Saturday are as follows...

    *** 1pm meet at the NOVOTEL ***

    *** 2pm KO AT Marsh Mills Pitches ***

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  • A-Z Seminar -- Rich Belli, 08:56:18 10/22/01 Mon
    We need people to represent us at the A~Z of Community rugby seminar on 28th Oct at Ivybridge Community College.
    09.15 ~ 16.30, Please email me if you are able to attend.

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  • Saturday's Fixtures -- rb, 22:55:33 10/17/01 Wed
    Fixtures (and kick-off times) for Saturday are :
    Chiefs away to Civil Service 1pm kick off.
    Tigers home to OPM IIIs (Civil II unable to raise side) 1pm kick off.

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  • Gentleman's Evening -- STU Q, 09:40:09 10/19/01 Fri
    STAG NIGHT TICKETS ON SALE AS FROM SATURDAY!!!

    Tickets will be priced at £7.50 and available from me on Saturday During the Ireland-England game.
    In case there is anyone who doesn't know, the event is booked for SATURDAY 17th NOVEMBER at 7.30pm.

    Other up-coming social events are listed on the Social page.

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  • Forthcoming Social Events -- rb, 00:50:15 10/15/01 Mon
    Details can be found on the Social page.

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  • October 13th -- Reesy, 14:53:28 10/10/01 Wed
    I'm back and looking more like a dirty buddha than a bronzed adonis and if last night's training is anything to go by, will take me at least a few weeks to get back into the swing of things.
    2nd team game only this week, versus Saltash II at home meet 2 o clock at the club. my team of advisors recommended the following selection, I'll take more responsibilty in the coming weeks, and would like to, and will attempt to base team selection around those training on tuesdays!!

    Moulder, Sillitoe, Organ, Clack, Barnes, Bartlett, P. Critchley, A. Bowden, Duff, Hill, Lowndes, Tommo, Mattock, Liberson, Aldridge, Rees, Pring, Eskriett, G. Bowden, Foster

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  • Gentlemans Evening -- Stu Q, 08:47:16 10/06/01 Sat
    For those who have been up to the club recently, you should have noticed that i have arranged a Stag Night for the 24th November. I believe that there is a large contingent going to watch the South Africa game, so I will endeavour to re-arrange this for another date around this time.

    Keep those eyes peeled!!!!!1

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  • SEVENTH -- Stu Q, 10:54:30 10/01/01 Mon
    Cheers Rich, but it is the 7th on sunday...

    Ha, hard night on the beers eh?

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  • Millionaire -- Stu Q, 10:51:42 09/30/01 Sun
    Who Wants to be a millionaire?

    Quiz at the club on sunday 7th october.

    1.30pm

    Be there!

    ****PLEASE COULD AS MANY PLAYERS/WIVES/FRIENDS ATTEND AS THE FUTURE SURVIVAL OF THIS CLUB COULD DEPEND ON SUCCESSFULL SOCIAL EVENTS****

    If we socialise as a team, maybe we will start to play as a team.

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  • New site shop? -- Glyn, 16:50:20 09/25/01 Tue
    Does anyone think it would be useful to the club if I created a shop for the new site to sell any Argaum Merchandise that we have? Also could see match tickets (eg. the England ones on offer) through this.

    Need a bit of setting up but I will only look into it if someone thinks its worthwhile. :)

    Let me know. Also I have been looking around on other sites to see if I can get any new ideas and it looks as though we have covered pretty much everything in it. So new ideas from you lot are VITAL!!!

    Glyn

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  • Tuskers - Sunday 30th September -- Jo, 18:23:01 09/26/01 Wed
    Tuskers have cancelled Sundays match due to lack of players - will rearrange for later in the year.

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  • Saturday -- Glyn, 16:26:32 09/25/01 Tue
    Work has grabbed me firmly by the preverbials for tonight so I can't make training. I am free if needed on Saturday though so whoever is organising the game give us a ring. (Do the 2nd's have a game this Saturday?).

    PS. The new site is <> ready for use. Just a few crap bits to iron out and it will all be working. :)

    Last chance to let me know what you want in it before launch...

    Glyn

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  • Stu again -- Stu Q, 19:26:21 09/20/01 Thu
    Sorry I wasn't at training on Tuesday, my ankle is still not right. I will endeavour to attend this Tuesday if only for a run around.

    Ritchie, is there any chance you could get me an Argaum crest on disk for me to put on any posters i do?

    How do I get my Argaum e-mail?

    Cheers mate

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  • Getting to the club -- Glyn, 10:30:14 09/21/01 Fri
    Is anyone able to give me a lift up to the club for 2:00 for Saturdays game? Dont fancy the walk first. :)

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  • I'M BACK -- Stu Q, 10:09:31 09/15/01 Sat
    Well. i'm finally back on-line.

    Hopefully soon be fit, will be up on tuesday to test my ankle out.

    Appologies for missing the committee meeting on sunday.

    Hopefully i will soon have some social events coming to fruitition. WATCH THIS SPACE.

    PLEASE LOOK AROUND THE CLUB FOR POSTERS AS THERE WERE FOUR UP FOR THE MILLIONAIRE QUIZ AND ONLY A HANDFULL OF PLAYERS TURNED UP. (thank god for the footballers)

    Any further ideas, please contact me.

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  • Introducing young players... -- Stu Q, 07:37:53 09/17/01 Mon
    Just an idea on how to introduce young players.

    Would we be able to arrange annual fixtures with local sixth-form sides?

    Don't know where we would stand with insurance etc...

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