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New England Irish Dance Message Board



Dancers, MAIDs, DAIDs, TCs, ADCRGs & friends -- this is the place to discuss the NE Region Irish Dance scene.
All I ask is that you treat each other with respect. Inappropriate posts may be removed at the moderator's discretion.If you post a reply to a thread of which you are the OP, please identify yourself as such.
If you have an issue, or need to report a problem with a post, please email me with your concern. I can be reached at NE_IrishDanceATyahoo.com.



Subject: Let’s have a discussion- what works , what doesn’t?


Author:
For Jan CLRG mtg
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:23:55 12/27/22 Tue

Motions
Motions Relating to Disciplinary Procedures
Motion 1
Any individual found to be guilty of seeking favourable placements from a judge or judges for particular dancers will be expelled from CLRG. Said individuals will no longer be recognized as a TCRG, ADCRG, or SDCRG in this organization and will not have the ability to return to said organization.
Effective Date: Immediate
Proposed by Judy McCafferty
Motion 2
Any individual found to be guilty of providing favourable placements as requested from another TCRG, ADCRG or SDCRG, will be expelled from CLRG with no possibility of reinstatement to CLRG.
Effective Date: Immediate
Proposed by Judy McCafferty
Motion 3
A teacher that cheats as a teacher should be punished as a teacher and as an Adjudicator. Not just as an Adjudicator.
Reason for motion :
The punishment should fit the crime. Teachers that have cheated for the benefit of their pupils cheated as teachers and should not only be prevented from judging but also from teaching.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Motion 4A
Current rule:
Para 3.2 [a] Where following an investigation into any complaint, a recommendation is made that a disciplinary committee is convened, in the case of any individual elected to An Coimisiún or any of its affiliated bodies, [he/she] will be obliged to temporarily step down from any position held while the process is ongoing. (AGM 2016)
Change to:
Para 3.2 [a] Where following an investigation into any complaint, a recommendation is made that a disciplinary committee is convened, in the case of any individual elected to An Coimisiún or any of its affiliated bodies, [he/she] will be obliged to temporarily step down from any position held while the process is ongoing, and that they inform the Chair/Regional Director (only) of the relevant affiliated body, that they cannot perform their elected duties.
Effective Date: Immediate
Proposed by Fiona Diggins Murphy on behalf of the Southern England Regional Council

Motion 4B
That CLRG maintain a thorough roster of all regional boards and representative positions. If at any time an individual is under investigation for gross misconduct, their name will be reviewed against the roster list and the affected board will be informed and the individual can step down from duties immediately.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Maureen Dillon Yawger & Ann Lavin Cassidy on behalf on Mid-America Region
Motion 5A
That the CLRG hire an outside independent Human Resource Service provider to handle all Investigations, Ethics Cases and Disciplinary Processes in all instances.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 5B
ALL Disciplinary procedures are investigated by outside the company/association of CLRG .
Reason for Motion
As we are a voluntary organisation that has members in it for over 50 years, a lot of our members are close friends, as well as colleagues. Investigating our own organisation, by ourselves, is a direct conflict of interest and will not be productive. We do not want to see CLRG collapse, we want to see CLRG rise out of this scandal, like many other sporting organisations. To do so, we must externally investigate the wrong doings, to eradicate the opportunity for future or ongoing controversy and scandals, but mainly, we must do so for the protection of the children in our organisation.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Motions relating to Procedures at Major Events
Motion 6A
That all dues paying REGISTRANTS of CLRG who had entries at the previous All Ireland Championships be eligible to vote for the adjudicators for the All Ireland Championships.
NB. The word “Registrants” to be changed in accordance with and when the review of the structure of CLRG is completed.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 6B
That all dues paying REGISTRANTS of CLRG who had entries at the previous World Championships be eligible to vote for the adjudicators for the World Championships.
NB. The word “Registrants” to be changed in accordance with and when the review of the structure of CLRG is completed.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri

Motion 6C
That all registered teachers in good standing worldwide be allowed to vote for All-Ireland and World Championship adjudicators.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Maureen Dillon Yawger & Ann Lavin Cassidy on behalf on Mid-America Region
Motion 7
That current MEMBERS of CLRG, entitled to attend CLRG meetings, be prohibited from putting their names forward to adjudicate the All Ireland Championships.
NB. The word “Members” to be changed in accordance with and when the review of the structure of CLRG is completed.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 8
That current MEMBERS of CLRG, entitled to attend CLRG meetings, be prohibited from putting their names forward to adjudicate the World Championships as a self-nominating adjudicator.
NB. The word “Members” to be changed in accordance with and when the review of the structure of CLRG is completed.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 9
That only one adjudicator from an Associated or Related entity is allowed to adjudicate at any qualifying event, Major Championship (as defined by CLRG), All Ireland Championship or World Championship. The person from the Related or Associated entity with the highest number of votes will be offered a contract and all other Associated or Related persons will forfeit their right to receive a contract even if their total number of votes exceeds the minimum number of votes needed to receive the offer of a contract for an event.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 10
Adjudicators defined as directly related to a particular active competitive dancer may not adjudicate at any qualifying events, Major Championships (as defined by CLRG), All Ireland Championships or World Championships for the duration of the dancer's active competitive career.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 11
That the CLRG define “directly related”. Effective Date: Not provided Proposed by Lisa Petri

Motion 12
That Adjudicators defined as having a Conflict of Interest arising from their work providing services to the CLRG, its affiliated bodies, and/or through commerce directly with CLRG dancers and families may not adjudicate at any qualifying events, Major Championships (as defined by CLRG), All Ireland Championships or World Championships. Conflict of Interest would need to be included here but examples would be dress makers, wig and makeup vendors, services for staging, tabulation, AV, social media etc.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 13
That adjudicators and teachers defined as having a Conflict of Interest arising from their work providing services to the CLRG, its affiliated bodies, and/or through commerce directly with CLRG dancers and families may not serve on the governing bodies of those organizations.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 14A
That competitor numbers for any qualifying events, Major Championships (as defined by the CLRG), All Ireland Championships, or World Championships may not be published or distributed in advance of the competition. The exact method to achieve this directive is to be agreed by Chairpeople and tabulators for the particular event.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 14B
That competitor numbers are to be distributed side stage, before the competitor dances, at all major events and programmes, with numbers and names, cease to be published.
Reason for Motion
Fairness and transparency. Distributing numbers side stage will help to encourage fairness and transparency in competition and worked very well in a lot of regional Oireachtaisí in 2022. We have to proceed in what we feel is the fairest way for the dancers in our dancing community and we also need to be, and be seen to be, conducting our business in the most transparent means necessary.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Motion 14C
That all major competitions put in place standard measures to ensure fair and just competitions for all competitors, i.e. no numbers released before the competition; no cell phones/smart devices allowed to be carried or worn by judges; that panels be accompanied by chaperones during the event; judges are to remain on site in a designated space and not allowed to return to their rooms during the competition day; all notepads and scrap paper are to be supplied each morning by the event organisers.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Maureen Dillon Yawger & Ann Lavin Cassidy on behalf on Mid-America Region

Motion 15A
That all qualifying events, Major Championships (as defined by the CLRG), All Ireland Championships, and World Championships must, at a minimum, be adjudicated by a panel of five adjudicators and institute the dropping of the highest and lowest scores system. If the event is adjudicated by rotating panels, then the panels must also be comprised of five adjudicators, at a minimum, and the drop the high and low score system must be applied to each round.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 15B
That the CLRG provide a fund specifically to finance the cost of the required extended judging panels for regions and localities with smaller entry numbers that meet the financial need criteria set out by the CLRG.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 16A
That a new point system be introduced for all CLRG competitions awarding 100 points for 1st place, 85 points for 2nd place(15 point differential), 75 points for 3rd place (10 point differential), 70 points for 4th place (5 point differential), 65 points for 5th place (5 point differential), 61 points for 6th place (4 point differential), 57 points for 7th place (4 point differential), 53 points for 8th place (4 point differential), 50 points for 9th place (3 point differential), 47 points for 10th place (3 point differential), 44 points for 11th place (3 point differential), 41 points for 12th place (3 point differential), etc.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 16B
We propose that a new point system be introduced for all CLRG competitions, that we decrease the point-spread among those top places to prevent any individual judge's marks from having a disproportionate effect on outcome.
Reason for Motion
The point spread is too great between the first few places and gives any one judge too much leverage.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Motion 17
That the current practice of awarding the teachers of the winning solo dancer and winning teams as part of Awards Presentations at qualifying events, Major Championship(as defined by CLRG), All Ireland Championship or World Championship be discontinued.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri

Motions relating to Other Feiseanna
Motion 18A
That the CLRG establish a random rota of adjudicators, similar to the rota used for Grade Examiners, for every Region and that local feiseanna may only draw from the rota when hiring adjudicators for their event. The feiseanna will have the option to request adjudicators from any of the established rotas to complete their panels to fulfill regional rules limiting the numbers of local adjudicators permitted to judge feiseanna in any Region. Feiseanna interested in hiring out of country adjudicators may request names from the rotas of other countries. Adjudicators presented from any rota that are not chosen will be returned to the rota in the same position.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri Motion 18B
Reason for Motion:
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Motion 19
That adjudicators may not process any paperwork nor take notes while dancers are actively competing on stage. Adjudicatorsarerequiredtowatchthefullperformanceofeverydancerfromwhentheystartdancinguntilthey complete the dancing portion of their time on stage. Adjudicators may take as much time as necessary between rotations of dancers to complete their notes and required paperwork.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 20A
That the CLRG immediately engage the services of an outside statistician to analyse past competitions in order to identify an accepted standard mean deviation which can be used to analyse future competitions and review patterns of inconsistencies in adjudication.
Effective Date: Immediate
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 20B
That the CLRG establish an adjudication review panel that can utilize the findings of statistical analysis of competitions in order to identify adjudicators that require additional training. The CLRG must move toward consistency in the application of marks in fairness to our dancers and not completely rely on the dropping of scores to remove outliers.
That CLRG sets up a rota of adjudicators, similar to the rota used for Grade Examiners, for every Region and that any
person organising a local feis has to apply to CLRG when booking adjudicators for their feis. The organisers of the feis
may request adjudicators from any region they wish and in turn will receive the next 5 names on the list from which
they can choose to invite who they wish to adjudicate at their feis. If they would like an overseas judge then they will
be given the next 5 names similarly from that list. Adjudicators that are not chosen will be returned to the rota in the
same position and those that are chosen are then put to the bottom of the list.
This will give every adjudicator a fair turn of adjudicating regularly. This will also and more importantly give dancers
the opportunity of having different adjudicators on a regular basis.
Effective Date: Not provided

Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 21
That CLRG defines clearly the elements of Irish Dance that should be considered by an adjudicator when evaluating a dancer's performance in competition.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 22
That the CLRG provide and require continuing education for all adjudicators addressing the valuation of technical and performance skills that merit certain levels of marks in competition, common stage occurrences and how they should be reflected in the marking system, and the goals of consistency in application of marks to dancers for performances.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 23
Than in addition to requiring Vetting and a Child Safety course on a regular basis, that the CLRG require all registrants to complete an Ethics course on a regular basis as part of the Registration process.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 24
That the CLRG address and define Conflict of Interest as it relates to competition.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Motion 25
That solo costumes will no longer be allowed crystals, identifying designs, dancer names or any school or personal identification.
Reason for Motion
To encourage new dancers to compete, as it is often a discouragement.
To eliminate costs for parents, this is a real and current issue.
That judges cannot recognise dancers on stage because of their identifying additional attributes.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Motion 26
Adjudicators should not be allowed judge dancers that have costumes made for them BY THAT ADJUDICATOR.
Reason for motion:
A clear advantage is obvious here to the dancer who wears a costume potentially judged by who made it form them. In some cases hours are spent by the costume maker with the dancer. This is a clear and obvious association.
Effective Date: Not provided

Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Motion 27
Put a BAN on wigs
Reason for Motion
• The condition of the children's hair needs to be taken into consideration; a lot of children are left with bald patches due to wearing of wigs.
‘Traction alopecia is a type of hair loss caused by constant pulling or pressure on the hair follicle and can develop as a result of wearing certain types of wigs and other protective styles, making those with natural hair more prone to the condition’
We are witnessing more cases of alopecia every year as people who are not trained to put on wigs (Parents and dancers) are putting wigs n every weekend and pulling or putting pressure on hair follicles.
• Cut cost for parents that is not needed, eliminate stress on the morning of a competition.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Motion 28
That CLRG work on a new Feis Format and to pilot a few feiseanna to troubleshoot any issues. Suggestions would be:
• To get rid of the book
• To introduce and automatic scoring system
• Black out feiseanna
• Rotating panels of judges
• Not to have more than one adjudicator form any one school on the same panel.
• No numbers to be given out until judges are in a safe place away from internet
connection and smart phones.
• That the numbers be organised, out of house by an independent, and put in a sealed
envelope that must be opened on stage before numbers are handed out.
• That judges are given security staff during majors.
• That judges must remain professional for the duration of a competition and not
to be seen mingling with other teachers or adjudicators.
Reason for motion:
All the flaws in our current competition system have been exposed publicly and in the media. If we are not seen to be trying to fix some of these flaws, then we will never regain the confidence of the public. Our dance halls will continue to empty out and our livelihoods will deteriorate. Let’s be seen to be proactive in bringing about a fairer sport that can be held in high esteem once again.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Motion 29
Adjudicators should not be invited to World Parties.

Reason for Motion :
General worldwide invites are going to Adjudicators who will potentially adjudicate the winning dancer in the future. World parties should be for their friends, family and their dancing school only.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Motions Pending/Held
These motions have been received but cannot be considered due to either (a) the impact on the Bunreacht and/or (b) they impact on decisions already taken in the last three meetings or (c) Motion 2 passed at the EGM on 10th December or (d) Motion 3 passed at the EGM on 10th December.
Para 53.1: “This Constitution may be amended annually at either a Bi-Annual or Annual General meeting of An Coimisiún”
Para 20: “Any matter already decided at a meeting may not be discussed again or the decision reversed until three further meetings have elapsed, unless Standing Orders are suspended, and further material information is provided, or there is significant change in circumstance.”
Motion 2 – EGM, 10th December 2022
That CLRG source all associated relevant professional expertise required of an independent reputable and impartial change management consultant firm to undertake a strategic review of CLRG, it’s constitution, the entire organisational structure including all share and stakeholders and financial report.
Motion 4 – EGM 10th December 2022
We request that the Rules Committee, Coiste Faire and the Udaras jointly review, adjudication and competition rules and regulations, disciplinary procedures, and practices, to address risks, complaint processes and highlight any deficiencies or flaws and make recommendations to ensure the fairness and protection for Irish dance competitors worldwide.
Pending Motion 1 – Held due to (a) above
That Standing Order for Meetings of An Coimisiún number 20 be amended as highlighted below.
“Any matter already decided at a meeting may not be discussed again or the decision reversed until three months have elapsed unless 20% of the CLRG Membership present and voting at a meeting agree to reintroduce the matter. Delete the following part of the existing rule : unless Standing Orders are suspended and further material information is provided or there is significant change in circumstances.”
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri
Pending Motion 2 – Held due to (a) and (b) above
That the structure of An Comisiun le Rinci Gaelacha be adjusted to recognize all persons that pay annual dues to CLRG as MEMBERS and that all persons who have the right to attend CLRG meetings, as per the CLRG Constitution, be redefined as DELEGATES.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Lisa Petri

Pending Motion 3A – Held due to (a) above
That the only in person CLRG meeting is to the biannual Annual General Meeting (the voting AGM) held in May.
Effective Date: Not provided
Paula Doyle-Hunkin on behalf of TIDANZ
Pending Motion 3B – Held due to (a) above
CLRG should only have in-person meetings once a year, the AGM. All other meetings should be held on a fully online platform with voting capacity for all in attendance.
Reason for Motion
1. Affordability - we should not be spending money where it is not needed. A fraction of this money can be spent setting up a secure and reliable online platform for meetings and voting, replicating what so many multi-national organisations use these days.
2. It is proven that online meetings are an efficient means of doing business and much less time consuming and time wasting. In an organisation that has representatives all over the world, many of whom have other jobs outside of Irish dancing, an online meeting would improve fairness and transparency when it comes to voting rights and many other aspects of the meeting.
Online and in-person meetings both have their advantages and disadvantages, but at a time where we are trying to promote fairness for all and the best interests of our teachers and dancers, We would like to propose one in person AGM a year (coinciding with a major event) and the rest of the CLRG meetings should be held online.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Pending Motion 4 – associated with Pending Motion 3A and 3B
That all regional directors/presidents, VPs, representatives are fully funded to this meeting every two years (all listed on the CLRG constitution as having representation for their region).
Effective Date: Not provided
Paula Doyle-Hunkin on behalf of TIDANZ Pending Motion 5 – Held due to (a) above
All meetings going forward have the option of a HYBRID System. If you cannot attend a meeting that is being held in person, you have the option of ‘zooming’ in (or similar) and have the equal right to vote on motions at said meeting.
Reason for Motion
Often due to distance, family reasons, work reasons, illness, pandemic.....people are not always available to attend every meeting in person. As CLRG ‘members’ (on a committee for CLRG), every effort should be made to ensure that every member can attend, as we did so during the Covid 19 pandemic. A common ground for this would be to hold a hybrid form of meeting, where people can attend, either in person or online, on zoom or a similar programme. This would allow people to attend, to interact and to vote on motions.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers

Pending Motion 6 – Held due to (a) and (c) above
To remove the word “Not” from C14.1.3 – Clause b)
The business of the Bi-Annual General Meeting will be to:
b) Elect a Council Representative to An Coimisiún. This representative may be any office holder or other member of the Council. Should this representative be unable to attend a meeting of An Coimisiún, he/she may not be substituted with an alternate delegate.
Reason for Motion
This will restore, to the Regional Councils, their ability to ensure that they are fully represented at “An Coimisiún”
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Pending Motion 7 – Held due to (a), (b) and (c) above
That CLRG should employ a CEO, (CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER) and a COO (CHIEF OF OPERATIONS OFFICER), who will take over the work of an Buanchoiste, as is outlined in point 34 of an Bunreacht. The CEO and COO would be employed to manage the overall operations of the company. They would bring with them expertise and managerial qualities that would improve relations, efficiency, standards and effectiveness throughout the Organisation on a day-to-day basis, but would be answerable to the Buanchoiste and it would be the Buanchoiste’s role to ensure that they are complying with the overall objective of the Organisation, which is to promote and to preserve Irish dancing and to promote the use of the Irish Language.
Reason for motion:
To professionalise the company/organisation. We feel like it has been identified that the Organisation has become too big and too complicated for all those who are volunteers. We absolutely agree that the Buanchoiste, committees and sub-committees would still play a huge part in certain areas, as the management team would have to report to the board, but that the day-to-day management and implementation of procedures should be professionalised, and undertaken by people who are specifically trained in this field.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Pending Motion 8 – Held due to (b) and (c) above
That CLRG engage the services of a company who can conduct a Governance Review.
Reason for Motion:
Corporate Governance is one of the key elements that ensures the success of an organisation. Without it, there is no transparency, no accountability and no security. It improves the overall performance of an Organisation, but it also promotes trust among the shareholders i.e. CLRG Members and Registrants and other stakeholders i.e. Parents, dancers and the public.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Pending Motion 9 – Held due to (b) and (c) above
That CLRG would hire a Human Resource Manager.
Reason for motion:

To take on the role of An Coiste Faire. It became extremely clear that all teachers who had to contact the Coiste Faire with worries or complaints were not happy with how they were treated or how their complaints were dealt with. There was no consistency, no follow ups, no correspondence and in lots of cases complaints were ignored. This is, of course, inevitable if these positions are not filled by people who have been trained to deal with conflicts or grievances and time constraints are inhibiting efficiency. We must take into account also the other side, we are putting volunteers in an extremely difficult position by asking them to take on roles that are extremely challenging and disturbing.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Pending Motion 10 – Held due to (a) and (c) above
That the Bunreacht be reviewed, the strengths and weaknesses be identified and amended so that the organisation can be strengthened.
Reason for Motion:
There is a fear that the Bunreacht is outdated and needs to be amended to encourage the organisation to evolve with the current climate. People want change and so we must go back to the beginning, with the help of an external company, to find out how we can make this Organisation better than it ever was.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Pending Motion 11 – Held due to (a) and (c) above
That the minutes of the CLRG meetings be shared with registrants, as well as with members.
Reason for Motion:
This would be a big step forward in ensuring transparency within our organisation. Registrants are told very little about anything that goes on in CLRG. There was a united voice amongst teachers that they felt like they are always being kept in the dark, that they are the outsiders. This is not conducive to a healthy relationship, it doesn’t instil trust, in fact it does the complete opposite. The fact that minutes are legal documents should be more than enough reason to share them with the registrants. All motions and decisions are already done with by the time minutes are signed off on, so this shouldn’t cause a problem for CLRG, whereby it would make a huge difference to the registrants and would hopefully make them feel more respected.
Proposed by Helan Greene on behalf of Munster Teachers
Pending Motion 12 – Held due to (b) and (d) above
That the Udaras implement in the TCRG and ADCRG Exanm a section highlighting our Ehics Policies and also create a training course to deal with cheating, intimidation and other breaches of the Ethics Policy.
Effective Date: Not provided
Proposed by Maureen Dillon Yawger & Ann Lavin Cassidy on behalf on Mid-America Region

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Subject: I don't usually post on Voy but I read the boards. I'm noticing a pattern on the main board. Anything at all pertaining to the CLRG cheating scandal gets deleted really quick. Does anybody know why?


Author:
MA mom
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Date Posted: 15:38:16 01/22/23 Sun


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Subject: New adjudication rules for All-Irelands


Author:
what do you think?
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Date Posted: 12:53:17 02/09/23 Thu

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/all-ireland-irish-dance-new-adjudication-rules

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Subject: Everyone in the NE Irish dance community is welcome to post here. But if you are the OP of a thread and you decide to post replies on your own thread, you need to identify yourself as the OP. It's common courtesy. To do otherwise is to mislead readers into thinking the responses are from people who agree with you, and that's dishonest.


Author:
Moderator
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Date Posted: 16:42:21 02/08/23 Wed


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Subject: Latest message from Ronan


Author:
from the main board
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Date Posted: 19:10:13 02/06/23 Mon

Dear fellow CLRG Registrants,

I received a letter from the Solicitor for CLRG, Dermot Hewson, on December 13th, 2022, regarding the initiation of an investigation into the incidents that I allege took place at Oireachtas Rince na Cruinne in Glasgow (2002) and London (2014) - the hiring of male prostitutes by senior members of CLRG, damage to hotels and financial restitution paid by CLRG. You will recall that An Coiste Faire was aware of the Glasgow 2002 incident at the time but did not order an investigation into the matter, despite the seriousness of the allegations.

We then received the synopsis of the December meeting of CLRG (December 16th, 2022), which stated:“Investigations are continuing with a rise in cases being recommended to formal disciplinary procedures. The CLRG solicitor is currently sourcing independent people with legal and HR experience to sit on disciplinary panels. The solicitor has also sourced and instructed an independent Investigation Company to carry out investigations into historic allegations made by a registrant.”

With this statement in the synopsis, along with the letter I had received from Mr. Hewson, I was heartened and hopeful that the new year would, truly, bring transparency and accountability to the organization.

On January 5th, 2023, I received an e-mail from retired Detective Superintendent Gabriel O’Gara requesting a Zoom interview. We, the registrants, had been informed by CLRG that current practice dictates that any evidence received will be passed by An Coiste Faire directly to Mr. Justice Michael Peart for review. I replied to Mr. O’Gara on January 12th, acknowledging my desire to cooperate with the investigation and seeking clarification on a few issues, one of which was how any evidence I provided would be handled.

Contrary to the stated CLRG policy of passing all evidence of wrongdoing to Mr. Justice Michael Peart for review, Mr. O’Gara replied that any evidence I provided would be given directly to Mr. Hewson, solicitor for CLRG. As it is the role of An Coiste Faire to oversee the handling of wrongdoings within the organization, I reached out to them on January 18th for some clarification.

In my communication, I referred to section 3.2, subsection 1, ofAn Coimisiún le Rincí Gaelacha DisciplineProcedureswhich states: “Normally an investigation will take place after a complaint has been received, usually in written format, signed by the complainant.However, there may be instances where a written complaint is not possible. This may not necessarily prevent an investigation from taking place.” In light of this last sentence, I expressed my surprised that An Coiste Faire did not immediately instigate an investigation into the allegations I had made. I also expressed my disappointment that An Coiste Faire were not directed to do so by An Cathaoirleach and/or Rúnaí, given the statement they made to Registrants on November 14th, 2022 in which they claimed that “formally addressing any wrongdoings” was a priority and that “no Member – including Officers and Council of Management Members - is above investigation and reproach, where necessary”.

I asked the following questions:
Per CLRG Discipline Procedures, is this investigation Informal (3.1) or Formal (3.2)?
Why has Mr. O’Gara been instructed by CLRG to present the report of his findings to Machales Solicitors, as opposed to An Coiste Faire?
If Mr. O’Gara’s report finds that there is credible evidence to support the allegations, will it, along with all supporting evidence, be submitted by Coiste Faire to Mr. Justice Michael Peart for review?
Will any member of CLRG, other than members of An Coiste Faire, be privy to my evidence prior to it being passed to Mr. Justice Michael Peart for review?
You should note that the allegations I made were regarding senior members of CLRG, and, yet, it would seem that the “investigation” into the allegations is being instructed by senior members via Dermot Hewson, solicitor, andNOTAn Coiste Faire, as required by CLRG Discipline Procedures.

It will probably come as no surprise that, despite sending a follow up e-mail to An Coiste Faire on January 27th, I have yet to receive a response. The questions I asked, with the possible exception of number 2, were all quite straightforward and should not have required any great deliberation on the part of An Coiste Faire, specifically it’s chairperson, to answer.

I naively thought that when I first wrote of the allegations, those involved would do the right thing and resign. This did not happen. I then replied to Dermot Hewson, solicitor, naming senior members with whom I had conversed about the allegations. Again, those implicated chose not to exercise the “get out of jail free card” they had been presented. An Cathaoirleach and An Rúnai wrote to the Registrants on November 14th, 2022, in form of a response to me, stating they were “hindered” by my “ongoing hostility towards individual Members” and “constant vitriol levelled against individual Members”. Although I have not yet named the currently serving senior members of CLRG that I believe were involved in the incidents (that is evidence which will be provided during the investigation), it would seem that An Cathaoirleach and An Rúnaí believe I have attacked specific senior members. Given that they have not refuted the allegations, it would seem that both An Cathaoirleach and An Rúnaí are not only aware of the incidents I believe occurred in 2002 and 2014; it would also seem that they are familiar with which senior members were involved.

I will say that despite the apparent desire of some of the most senior members not to follow the Discipline Procedures or their expressed intention of formally addressing any wrongdoings, the Outreach and Development Committee are doing Trojan work to ensure the mandate for review, following the passing of motion 2 at the EGM, is delivered. They have set up a steering committee of knowledgeable and experienced registrants to oversee the tendering process and are pursuing an ambitious timeline for the review. This has given me great hope that meaningful change will, eventually, come to CLRG.

In the meantime, I will continue to ask questions, to raise awareness of issues that serve only to bring the organization into further disrepute and to hold those in positions of responsibility within the organisation to account. Despite the voluntary nature of the positions held by CLRG members, they are obligated to carry out their accepted roles with honesty and integrity, and to act, at all times, in the best interests of the organization. Concealing wrongdoings is never the proper course of action and the truth will always out. As former US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright once said: “the cover-up, more than the initial wrongdoing, is what is most likely to bring you down”. Perhaps those with knowledge of the incidents I have alleged should consider this. They may not have been part of the incidents, but their efforts to cover up make them equally complicit in the further erosion of both public and Registrant trust in CLRG.

Is mise le meas,

Ronan McCormack ADCRG BG

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Subject: I thought Feb. 1 was the deadline by which days-only NAIDC schedule was supposed to be published? No indications so far.


Author:
----
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Date Posted: 13:38:22 02/01/23 Wed


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Replies:
Subject: Can someone tell me why people stay with a teacher that is suspended?


Author:
NH mother
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Date Posted: 15:59:50 01/30/23 Mon


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Replies:
Subject: Any NE schools out for Nationals?


Author:
N
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Date Posted: 10:46:16 02/04/23 Sat


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Replies:
Subject: How many prelim firsts required in New England?


Author:
CD
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Date Posted: 15:06:10 01/23/23 Mon

I can’t find official rules anywhere, just individual schools saying Mid Atlantic requires 3 to move to open but all others only 2. Can anyone point me in the direction of anything official? And if not, what is the answer (and why wouldn’t this be standard across all regions?)? Thanks.

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Replies:
Subject: Can anyone tell me if infants are required to have a wristband in the Worlds block?


Author:
dancer
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Date Posted: 08:04:27 01/26/23 Thu

I am traveling to Worlds with my partner and parents + 6 month old infant, and we were hoping to book one room in the block (cozy, I know!). We don't need a bed for her as we'll bring a pack'n'play. Do I have to book a room for 5 to get my infant a wristband (that she won't even be able to wear on her wrist!)? I know plenty of TCs and dancers have gone to worlds with their children, but am not sure how to handle this particular situation. Any help is appreciated!

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Replies:
Subject: Inishfree Feis just opened on Feisweb. Weekend of February 25/26


Author:
Always a very well run event
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Date Posted: 16:47:38 01/18/23 Wed


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Replies:
Subject: Copied from the main board, because everything there gets deleted:


Author:
*
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Date Posted: 13:08:55 01/13/23 Fri

RE: CLRG Review Steering Group Established
As you are aware, it was agreed at December’s EGM to recruit a professional change management consultant firm to undertake a strategic review of CLRG, its constitution, and the entire organisational structure (Motion 2) and to review adjudication and competition rule and regulations, disciplinary procedures, and practices (Motion 3).
Progressing this important task is a key priority for CLRG and we are delighted to announce that the CLRG Review Steering Group has been established and begun work on creating the terms of reference that will be used to identify an appropriate change management consultant firm to conduct the comprehensive review as part of a transparent tendering process.
The Group features two members of the CLRG’s Outreach & Development Committee and is chaired by Órla Nic Conuladh. Five additional CLRG Members and Registrants who have considerable professional experience working with change management consultancies complete the Group. The appointees include:
 Órla Nic Conuladh (Member, Ireland)
 Linda Possak (Member, Canada)
 Orfhlaith Ní Bhriain (Member, Ireland)
 Sorcha Ní Chéide (Registrant, Ireland)
 Sarah Jayne MacLaverty (Registrant, Ireland)
 Jonathan McMorrow (Registrant, Ireland)
 Stephen McAteer (Registrant, UK)
The Group has held a number of meetings already including an open meeting for Registrants and Members worldwide to input into the process. It has developed an ambitious timeline of activity to appoint this entity, with the goal of completing the full strategic review by April, in advance of the CLRG elections and AGM in May.
We look forward to updating Members and Registrants on the continued progress of the Group’s work over the coming weeks. CLRG remains committed to delivering positive change across the Organization.

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Replies:
Subject: Party


Author:
Curious
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Date Posted: 12:14:24 01/20/23 Fri

Is anyone actually going to Rita’s party. Many of my friends got texts. I’m on the fence

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Replies:
Subject: If anyone has a room at the Newport Marriott and does not need it please contact me jackb107@yahoo.com


Author:
Shannon
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Date Posted: 12:08:52 01/21/23 Sat


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Subject: Latest article from Ellen Coyne exposing how schools involved in feis fixing are still running feises


Author:
Keep it up Ellen!
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Date Posted: 02:15:19 01/19/23 Thu

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-dancing-schools-led-by-teachers-embroiled-in-feis-fixing-scandal-can-still-hold-feiseanna-42297960.html

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Replies:
Subject: Dates for NAIDC


Author:
dancemom
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Date Posted: 10:04:28 01/08/23 Sun

I understand that New England is hosting NAIDC? Do we know when the days and day only timetable will be shared? As a Mom of a teenager we need this information now as we have to plan our summer internships (and deadlines are fast approaching) and stuff and we need to know exactly when she will be in Nashville. Seems that they have to know (space must be booked) and can model it off prior years, so can this information come out soon?

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Replies:
Subject: How do you World Qualify?


Author:
What is the formula?
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Date Posted: 08:05:32 11/20/21 Sat


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Replies:
Subject: Worlds and judging conflicts


Author:
JS
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Date Posted: 13:23:00 01/05/23 Thu

Does anyone know of where a list of schools associated with the judges selected for worlds might be? Is there an official site or page that would disclose this information so people can see which schools are associated with the schools of the judges that have been mandated? (I know you can google each judge and find out their own schools but how do you find out overseas associations or workshop associations?)

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Replies:
Subject: Newport Feises


Author:
Disappointed participant
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Date Posted: 13:35:20 01/09/23 Mon

Just received a call from the resort cancelling my reservation "due to construction" and letting me know they have booked me elsewhere. Anyone else receive a call cancelling your reservation?

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Replies:
Subject: Newbie Mom here, how common is it for champs to hire hair/makeup artists for local Feis?


Author:
Really needed?
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Date Posted: 16:00:19 12/30/22 Fri


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Replies:
Subject: Does anyone have a video of the Friday night parade of champions from the O?


Author:
-Thanks
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Date Posted: 19:59:59 01/07/23 Sat


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Subject: Message from the Moderator


Author:
NE Mod
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Date Posted: 11:55:04 01/04/23 Wed

I really shouldn't have to say this again, but if you reply to your own post *while pretending to be someone else*, your nonsense is getting deleted. If you persist, you will be blocked.

I'm very much in favor of cleaning up the mess that's been going on in CLRG and elsewhere, which is why I've been allowing far more discussion than any of the other Voy boards. However I won't have one person pretending to be multiple responders. It's dishonest. Board user in Ireland, I'm looking at you.

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Replies:
Subject: What businesses are honestly going to sponsor worlds & A. I? No business will want is name dragged through the mud by sponsoring dirty, dodgy evil clrg! Gavin can't sponsor if Doherty Petri have dancers competing, unethical conflict of interest. The media would love it though!


Author:
No sponsors no majors
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Date Posted: 13:50:46 12/29/22 Thu


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Replies:
Subject: Room for Newport at Host


Author:
Desperate Mom (Kane)
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Date Posted: 21:47:05 01/01/23 Sun

Looking for a room for the Newport Feis at the host hotel for Friday and Saturday night. I was teaching class when booking opened, so I missed it. With two kids feising, much easier to be at host instead of Marriott.

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Subject: WHEN WILL DATES YOU DANCE AT NATIONALS IN NASHVILLE BE RELEASED?


Author:
ROBIN
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Date Posted: 10:42:43 12/13/22 Tue


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Replies:
Subject: Where can I find the most up to date feis schedule for 2023 for the new england region?


Author:
please
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Date Posted: 08:48:02 12/30/22 Fri


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Replies:
Subject: Latest article from Ireland featuring the texts!Why are people still financing & funding these gangsters?


Author:
Boycott
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Date Posted: 04:59:14 12/24/22 Sat

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2022/12/23/high-court-hears-claims-of-competition-fixes-and-sexual-favours-in-irish-dancing/

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Replies:
Subject: As my dancers have all retired..


Author:
Old Timer
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Date Posted: 17:43:51 12/20/22 Tue

I’m not sure if this is still true but years ago, all wristbands for the All Irelands and Worlds had to be paid for in cash. You could not purchase them with a credit card. Looking back on it now with the current accusations, CLRG didn’t want a paper trail of the amount of money taken in. Admission was never cheap and I’m sure there must of been suitcases full of cash.

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Replies:
Subject: Is this true? Did the former treasurer of IDTANA really steal $231,000 from them (which, in a way, means it was stolen from us)?


Author:
could Irish dance get any sleazier?
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Date Posted: 19:00:16 12/15/22 Thu

Dear IDTANA Members,

Please read below for an update regarding the State of Ohio vs. Martin Percival. On December 6, 2022, Martin Percival pled guilty to a Theft - Felony 4 charge in Hamilton County, Ohio in front of Judge Melba Marsh.

This felony charge comes with a potential prison term of 6-18 months, a $5,000 fine, and probation. The prison term and fine have been set aside due to Martin Percival's willingness and agreement to make restitution to IDTANA. The total amount outlined in the Theft - Felony 4 charge is $231,566. Within the next week, IDTANA will receive a check in the amount of $75,000 and the remaining amount of $156,566 will be paid over the next two to five years. In the event, Martin Percival fails to make complete restitution within two to five years, he will have violated the terms of his probation and be subject to additional sentencing.

As a representative of IDTANA, Allison Weber Erickson had the opportunity to address the court. What follows is a brief synopsis of what she shared: Thank you to the State of Ohio, Hamilton County Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Bill Anderson, and Hamilton County Detective Keith Witherell for pursuing this case on IDTANA's behalf. As a 100% volunteer-based organization, IDTANA and its membership were devastated, shocked, angered, and saddened that Martin Percival, someone we trusted, would steal from his very own colleagues and by extension, the North American Irish dance community. The impact of his actions is far-reaching in terms of the support IDTANA offers to Irish dancers -- annual scholarships were not funded to the usual extent, outreach initiatives were put on hold and professional development opportunities were limited. The business of IDTANA was, and is still, affected by his actions -- not to mention IDTANA's overall reputation. Countless hours have been spent in order to rectify the results of his actions and this work is ongoing.

We are extremely grateful to the State of Ohio and to Hamilton County for their diligence in this matter. We are also thankful for the patience of the IDTANA membership as the justice system worked on our behalf.
Sincerely,
Your IDTANA Officers

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Replies:
Subject: Has a date been set for Grade Exams in Boston Jan 22 or 23??


Author:
NT
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Date Posted: 13:12:32 12/26/22 Mon


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Subject: I know that CLRG is supposed to mean An Coimisiún Le Rincí Gaelacha but this year I think we've learned that all along it really meant Crooked Losers Rigging the Game.


Author:
shame on them
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Date Posted: 12:23:24 12/26/22 Mon


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Subject: Irish Dance High Court


Author:
.
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Date Posted: 16:04:50 12/21/22 Wed

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2022/1220/1343027-irish-dance-high-court/

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Replies:
Subject: To the Worldwide Irish Dance Community, a page of information for you all to research and form your own opinions of CLRG.


Author:
Des Silke, ADCRG
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Date Posted: 23:28:29 12/18/22 Sun

This will allow you to suggest solutions, suggestions or maybe opinions that I am happy to forward onto to the Outreach Committee to enable all of us to move forward and correct, fix and make CLRG as robust and transparent to everyone that is either a paid member of CLRG or a parent/Guardian that enters a Feis on behalf of their family/Guardian members. Together as a community we can fix our organisation, I’m sure we do not want it to fold!!!
Link: https://www.instepfm.com/clrganewfuture.html

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Subject: CLRG held their "Extraordinary Meeting" yesterday in Belfast. They refused the requests of TCs/ADs who could not travel to Belfast to be able to vote remotely. As the enclosed letter from CLRG's joke of a leader makes clear, nothing is ever going to change. Business as usual for the cheaters. I think it's time for parents who oppose cheating to start voting with their wallets.


Author:
we need to boycott
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:10:58 12/11/22 Sun

https://mcusercontent.com/cba3b6d2a3267591cd7719ea2/files/08a78fd5-4d22-7d16-4454-28e6c661c3ab/Statement_10_Dec_2022.pdf

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Replies:
Subject: Letter from Ronan McCormack to CLRG Registrants (inside first reply)


Author:
thank you, Ronan, for standing up
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Date Posted: 10:28:01 12/15/22 Thu


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Replies:
Subject: The possible future of CLRG


Author:
Des Silke, ADCRG
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Date Posted: 21:50:39 12/11/22 Sun

https://www.instepfm.com/images/The_possible_future_of_CLRG_-_Des_Silke_ADCRG.pdf

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Replies:
Subject: Workshop


Author:
Mom
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Date Posted: 18:13:03 12/07/22 Wed

My dd dances at Osc. Lisa told the kids she did not condone cheating,yet hjo is coming for workshop in January. Would I be right in thinking birds of a feather, or should I stay naive? It’s tough as parent to teach honesty and pay for lies

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Replies:
Subject: Does anyone know, will the HPK feis (Ffld Co Championships) run this year?


Author:
dm
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Date Posted: 08:07:34 12/11/22 Sun


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Replies:
Subject: U9 National Qualifiers


Author:
U9 Parent
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Date Posted: 11:36:08 12/11/22 Sun

Why were the u9 New England dancers who will be u10 in July not named or awarded National Qualifiers. Every other region did.

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Replies:
Subject: EGM - Representation at the EGM


Author:
Des Silke, ADCRG
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Date Posted: 19:57:48 12/08/22 Thu


44 officially suspended -- James McCutcheon, 8/12/22 15:57:28, Thu [24]
As you are aware, An Coimisiún le Rincí Gaelacha initiated a disciplinary process into allegations of wrongdoing which have been widely reported.
Led and overseen by Mr Justice Michael Peart, a retired judge of the Court of Appeal, the independent investigation has thoroughly examined all complaints, grievances and all accompanying evidence.
This external investigation team has provided an update on its progress, and in the interests of transparency, we can confirm 44 cases have now been recommended to proceed to full disciplinary hearing. All the individuals involved have been informed and Clauses 3.2.a and 3.2.b of the Disciplinary Procedure have been invoked.
[3.2.a] Where following an investigation into any complaint, a recommendation is made that a disciplinary committee is convened, in the case of any individual elected to An Coimisiún or any of its affiliated bodies, [he/she] will be obliged to temporarily step down from any position held while the process is ongoing. (AGM 2016)
[3.2.b] Where an investigation into Gross Misconduct concludes there is sufficient evidence to invoke formal Disciplinary Procedures against any individual, that individual may not make any application to officiate at, or act in any official capacity at, any CLRG registered competition or event until formal Disciplinary Procedures have concluded.
These cases will be heard by an independent External Disciplinary Panel. Recruiting experienced, external individuals for this Panel is underway and will be finalised in due course.
We wish to reiterate that CLRG regards all allegations of wrongdoing with the utmost seriousness. We look forward to the External Disciplinary Panel commencing its work and dealing with these issues as soon as possible.
We would also like to reassure Members that we are fully dedicated to introducing positive changes as agreed and approved by your representatives at An Coimisiún. This is something we are committed to and focused on moving forward.
James McCutcheon SDCRG
Cathaoirleach

Do you have any of the 114 CLRG members in your Region that have resigned their position or may due to disciplinary procedures being invoked that are required to step down and not be able to be replaced, therefore your Region will not have full representation at the EGM, has your Region sought for these members to be replaced according to the rules of An Coimisiun as long as they are current members, in good standing, that have been accepted via the registration process and subject to the voting procedures that enable them to be elected as a valid teachers representative for their Regional Council or as an elected Teachers Representive to An Coimisiun Le Rinci Gaelacha with no ratification from the floor of An Coimisiun.

Lay Members that are elected via Regional Councils need to be ratified at an An Coimisiun meeting once all checks (Vetting & Child Protection) have been completed by the Regional Council.

Will this affect the teachers in your Region being afforded representation at the EGM?
If as a TCRG, TMRF, ADCRG, you have any questions regarding the above questions please email cathaoirleach@clrg.ie to air your concerns.

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Replies:
Subject: You have received two emails both in writing from me


Author:
Anthony Fallon
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Date Posted: 18:21:02 11/23/22 Wed

Hi and to whomever it may concern.

I am asking for the thread about Clann Lir academy of Irish dance to be taken down and deleted. I am also asking for the IP addresses for every individual who has responded or posted underneath the thread whether it be positive or negative towards my dance company or myself.

I Anthony fallon am the owner the studio in question and I am asking for the IP addresses for each individual who posted under this thread. There is many slandered comments personally about myself under this thread.

I appreciate your time for running this anonymous board and I have taken screen shots of every message posted and every individual comment with time and dates.

I do not understand how this board works and this has been brought to my attention this early morning .. You have deleted previous messages about some other people and must feel obliged to leave messages disregarding myself Anthony Fallon.

I would like you to follow through on my request.

If not I am willing to take this matter further and I will
Not be reaching out again.

I thank you for your time for running an anonymous board about New England Irish dance.

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Replies:
Subject: Who was the Oireachtas photographer? I thought Shamrock but nothing is up yet. And they’re already posting MARO photos.


Author:
Confused
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Date Posted: 09:15:18 11/26/22 Sat


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Replies:
Subject: How were numbers at NEO this year? We’re they down? What was the largest comp.?


Author:
?
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Date Posted: 05:23:21 12/02/22 Fri


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Replies:
Subject: Feis web results


Author:
Ca mom
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Date Posted: 05:52:40 12/05/22 Mon

Hi, out of region dancer and never danced a feis with feisweb. How long until results are posted online? We left before ours were called since we had such a long drive home.

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Replies:
Subject: Where do you get your ceili team dresses from?


Author:
?
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:17:23 12/03/22 Sat


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Subject: CLRG, while trying to fix the cheating, can you also fix the suspect New England judging, racism, hotel process for majors, mental abuse, and favoritism? Thanks


Author:
Need_change
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Date Posted: 06:33:15 10/07/22 Fri

Thank you

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Replies:
Subject: Bracken Feis schedule, why oldest to youngest?


Author:
Far harder for a teen girl to be ready for an 8 am start time
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Date Posted: 09:20:14 11/04/22 Fri


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Replies:
Subject: Anyone else come home with the Oireachtas plague or am I the only lucky one?? 🤧🤒


Author:
🙃
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Date Posted: 09:49:21 11/23/22 Wed


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Replies:
Subject: Does anyone know of upcoming grade exams being offered in the region?


Author:
Dd
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:47:14 11/22/22 Tue


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Replies:
Subject: I just looked at the list of member schools on the NEIDT website. Each school is supposed to have its TCs listed under it. It doesn't seem accurate. I see closed schools like Kenny listed there as if they currently exist, and other schools that have had a change in some TCs have outdated info. How often is this supposed to be updated?


Author:
wondering
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Date Posted: 20:15:40 11/22/22 Tue


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Replies:
Subject: Anyone have adult trad set results? The link on the site is still incorrect.


Author:
??
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Date Posted: 17:43:19 11/22/22 Tue

Shame it seems like all other comps were a priority to get results posted correctly and quickly except for these adults.

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Subject: Where can I watch parade of champions?


Author:
Not from region.
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Date Posted: 16:12:57 11/22/22 Tue


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Replies:
Subject: Girls recall u15. What actually happened? The paperwork was lost?


Author:
Didn’t hear the whole explanation
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Date Posted: 14:35:35 11/19/22 Sat


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Replies:
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