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Date Posted: 11:04:24 07/19/07 Thu
Author: Jubellant
Subject: After seeing CB this week all I can say is WOW! Her quiet strength and determination really got to me. She is right to have put Jeremy's room back together. The guy is going through major turmoil and to discover any trace of his existence had been wiped away would have pushed him even further into his self-destructive abyss. Hitting his Mom had nothing to do with her IMHO. It all has to do with getting back at his father and what better way than to hurt what he loves most. He has hurt Denise physically and now by joining the army he is hurting her emotionally as well. This will not make her proud but add to her worries. Staying and facing the humiliation instead of running would have been more courageous. (Inside)

Hitting his Mom once though totally wrong, I could have afforded him a lapse in judgement break. However, the funny, kind etc child that Amanda was describing would not have been able to repeat the abuse time and time again. That person would have been so humiliated, remorseful and guilt-ridden that he would have been bending over backwards right after to atone for having hit her. He would not have continued the abuse. If he had been such a great kid wouldn't this polar opposite behaviour signal a major crisis in the kid's life that the family would have immediately addressed? I really felt for Denise on many fronts this week. She got it from all angles, her son, her husband and her best friend. Now for Amanda what exactly crossed her mind after hearing this guy beat up on his Mother. Oh I must sleep with this guy? I get that she loves him but to go the distance with him right after learning this to me is so bizarre. He is in no imminent danger, it's not like they won't see each other again. It's boot camp. Oh, and now that I have seen a bit more of Jeremy's room I shall use one of my sister's favourite noncomittal words, different. Okay ladies fire away LOL!

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Replies:

[> To me Amanda sleeping w/Jeremy is more about her rebellion against Dad & his ultimatum to not see Jeremy anymore. And for Jeremy is was the urgency that he was leaving for boot camp. Denise handled the situation very well. Thanx, Jubellant for mentioning that someone missed some warning signs -- didn't Denise say that Jeremy had been abusing her for 6 months & she said it right after Frank deployed? -- Texasbrat, 11:47:26 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> Yes TB it was after Frank deployed, then he got bolder hitting his Mom while his Dad was home the last time and the timeframe was 6 months. These two seem to resent their Dad's being in the army if they are both rebelling this way. Jeremy has been right in the thick of it but Amanda has been away at school so to still feel that strongly...... -- Jubellant, 12:07:49 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> [> Amanda was just told by her father a few weeks ago that whatever she does affects thousands of soldiers. She's directly in the thick of it. Not allowed to express her own beliefs or opinions like any other American has the right to, because her father has put that responsibility on her. She didn't ask to be born into that environment, and she shouldn't be subject to it, just because it's her father's job. She didn't want the life her mother had, and didn't want to be married to or dating a soldier. As far as her having sex with Jeremy, it was an emotional situation for both of them, and being who they are they just darn well wanted to get it on, damn the consequences. -- Theresa, 12:15:33 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> [> [> It would be ideal if we weren't put in situations we didn't like. It's called life. No one is ever totally happy with what they have, be it hair color, eye color, height, weight etc Life is about sometimes making the best of certain situations. We are not talking about children of pimps, drug lords or other social deviants here. It all boils down to a matter of caring and respect for one's parents if not their career choice. Their parents are hard working individuals trying to provide for their families. What she does impacts her father, no one was telling her what to believe. She has a right to protest, but sometimes just being thoughtful about how things we do effects others, without compromising your own beliefs, is okay too. -- Jubellant, 12:55:19 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> [> [> [> Well said Jubellant. Her protest also affected her schooling, she was in the uniform of a parochial style girls school, & because of her arrest, she had to leave the school. -- Texasbrat, 13:09:16 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> [> [> [> That's all true, but I find it interesting that the children of the people who fight for our freedoms live under a system where they are less free than other children. What a petty nitpicky environment they have on Army Wives where rumors can ruin promotion chances and your child participating in a peaceful demonstration can effect your career. It's not that way in the civilian world. My father is head of a huge department in a hospital, if I protested anything as a teen his boss probably would never hear about it or care one way or another. Amanda should respect her parents, but not at the peril of her own freedom if she's not doing anything immoral or illegal. No good parent would ask that of her. Do I think her actions with Jeremy were 5 shades of stupid? YES I DO! -- Theresa, 13:53:13 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> [> [> [> I agree with Theresa on this one as well. Amanda is also 18 years old Jubellant and 18 year olds don't always think about about how things they do affects others. And Texasbrat, she didn't have to leave school, it was done and in exam session which she got approval from the principal to take her exams. And in the same sense you two what parents do impacts there kids, so they should maybe be a little more thoughtful and aware of how and what they do affects their kids. -- Kathy, 13:59:29 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> No one is saying that 18 year olds always make the greatest choices or think beyond me, Kathy. The point was made that what we choose to do impacts others. Is it fair, does it mean we always have to put others needs in front of our own? No. It is just a comment on life and lessons we all learn and grow from. Theresa I agree that it's sad that the freedoms fought for do not seem to extend to their children. However, if you were out there protesting something that affected the hospital your Dad worked at and let's say your protests had an impact on a huge grant the hospital was vying for and lost because of it, I am pretty sure there would be repercussions, don't you think? They might be subtle ones but I bet they would be there. -- Jubellant, 15:54:07 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> [> Actually in the civilian world it would be illegal for my father to have any career repercussions from anything that I do. It's the law that people in the work place be judged on their own merits alone regardless of family actions. And in the military it doesn't seem like anything anyone says or does changes anything that they do. I don't see how there are repercussions on military operations if she says the troops should come home. All Michael told her was that it went against what HE stands for, and that it might make the other wives whose husbands are gone not believe him. He made it all about him instead of about what Amanda believed. -- Theresa, 18:48:54 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> [> [> It's illegal to penalize the whistleblower too and we all know it happens. It would not be overt but if someone really want to create repercussions tthere are very subtle ways it could be done. Michael wasn't making it all about him. He was stating that the choices his daughter made impacted his ability to carry out his JOB effectively.. -- Jubellant, 01:35:25 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> [> [> [> [> Then he's lousy at his job if something a teenager says effects his abilities. I wonder how many people in the actual military feel like Amanda does and just don't have the freedom to say so. They're too busy protecting our freedom to have any of their own. -- Theresa, 08:31:34 07/20/07 Fri [1]


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[> Amanda is a teenager...she didn't believe her parents when they told her what Jeremy had done, they were *lying* to her to keep her away from Jeremy. Amanda sees this cute boy, & that's about it. They are teenagers! They don't listen to adults, cause of course they know everything LOL! I also think Amanda having sex with Jeremy was more out of rebelling against her parents. Of course Amanda is going to *see* a different side of Jeremy, she's never been at the Sherwood house & I'm sure Jeremy does control his anger when with his friends. But like Michael & Claudia Joy feel, I certainly wouldn't want my daughter hanging out with an abuser like Jeremy. Jeremy destroyed people's trust in him, now its gonna be a long road back, but he is going to have to re-earn their trust & respect. -- Jennifer, 13:47:20 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> Here we have two families, the Sherwoods where Denise up to this point has done what Frank wanted and the Holden's where Frank says he has listened to and respected his wife for18 years. Denise has been straight laced and Claudia Joy more the experimenter. The Holden household appeared to have a more relaxed atmosphere than the Sherwoods but the outcome is the same. Two teenagers who hate the military life and seem to resent their respective fathers. Is there a positive side to being in a military Dad? Does the discipline it takes to be in the army automatically spill over into your home life? -- Jubellant, 16:07:17 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> Should read positive side in being a military Dad? -- Jubellant, 16:13:24 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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[> [> [> I'm not sure there really is a positive side to being a military dad. Being a good dad yes, but a military one, not really. There's no other profession where any man would be seen as honorable making babies knowing he very likely won't be around for long months or maybe years of their kids lives, and can't really be involved in raising them. Especially in this day and age where fathers are expected to participate as much as mothers are. Inside... -- Theresa, 17:21:41 07/19/07 Thu [1]

With these two families, you have men who were most likely away from home quite alot when their children were small and in their bonding years, and then come home and expect to be equally respected and have their orders followed. When their kids don't feel bonded to them. How can any child understand that daddy has to put his career before them? How can any child not feel abandoned in their younger years by someone who chooses to be an absent father on purpose? How can any child believe that their father is deserving of respect when he didn't really raise them?

Michael is good with CJ, but all I've seen him do is order around his kids. He's not like Trevor who is a hands on dad. The only time I've ever seen Michael or Frank hug their children was when CJ was a hostage and when Frank returned home, and even then Jeremy waited for a cue to come and hug his father. CJ understands her kids and has a friendship with them. Michael just barks orders at them unless it's serious crisis like the hostage situation.


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[> [> [> [> I agree wholeheartedly Theresa. :o) -- KH, 18:02:22 07/19/07 Thu [1]


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