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Date Posted: 09:18:49 03/15/02 Fri
Author: Remington
Subject: Why many object to hands and arms swinging idea
In reply to: Chazman 's message, "How don't you pronate, especially if you are using freely" on 12:39:12 03/14/02 Thu

I thought I would try to explain why a group of us don't think NG is correct in their explanation that the arms swing and define the body movement. Todd Graves teaches this idea, and I think it has become the official work of the NGCIs this year.

Because of being influenced by the 1995 Golf Digest tape, and the LOPG tapes, which emphasized keeping the lower unit quiet, and swinging with the arms, like Graves, I, too, at one time, thought this was the proper way to execute a single axis swing.

However, a couple of posters, on the SA DGs kept posting that the arms swinging first, thereby, defining the body motion just cannot be true, if you are going to argue from the point of view that Moe was the first NGer. Why? Because the lower body moves ahead (forward) a full three frames before any hands or arms movement, with Moe.
Further, in this regard, the body motion forward by a full three frames cannot fall into the "anticipation" category, because that category would only get one frame forward, at most...in fact, of the swingers that are noted for this motion, i.e., arms swinging with body anticipating, like Croker, there might be 1/2 frame forward motion of the body (lower unit) in anticipation.

I think there is a lot of confusion in this area, and it is an area that I don't think NG gets right. The students that listen to the techings of NG tend to slide onto the bent left leg, in an effort to stay facing the ball. NG continues to wrongly picture the second base position by having the right shoulder back (should be down), still facing the ball (shouldn't be sqare to ball in second base position), with the left arm to the left side, instead of in front, where it should be. Shankland continues this error in his video, with Moe, on televeision, in my opinion.

I think a lot of the confusion comes from the difference between the backswing and the downswing. The lower unit does stay quiet on the backswing. You might even say that the arms and hands are swinging to a relatively quiet lower unit. HOWEVER, you do turn into the right hip and the right STUMPED leg. You don't slide into that right hip, as many NGCIs do, you TURN into that right hip on the backswing.

For many of you who are experiencing an ackward feeling with SA golf I hope this idea helps you as much as it did me. You have turned into the right hip on the backswing, as a result of swinging the arms. However, on the downswing, the hips will rotate out of the right hip, and it is that move that sends that left knee forward, and the left knee moving forward widens the knees, and there is a CONTINUING rotational movement, but it is disguised because you rotate onto a bent left knee. You don't slide onto a bent left knee. Understand this, the leading edge of the leading hip is the pivotal point of the rotation. That's why it is so important to move onto the bent left leg on the downswing...otherwise you will send everything left (golf ball will pull left).

Because of the wide stance it is not a lot of rotation...but it is rotation nonetheless.

Although what I am going to say here is not completely accurate, I want to put these words simply. Go ahead and swing back with the arms and hands...there will be some rotation into the right hip, and the stumped right leg. However, on the downswing just rotate out of that R hip onto the bent left leg. Of course we are talking about fractions of a second here, but it is rotate out of right hip...swing; not swing and slide. All I am saying is not to start down with the arms and hands first. The lower unit does, in fact, move forward a full three frames before the arms and hands start swinging.

You can best see these ideas with the driver.

The frame counters really do express this idea much more succintly, but I made this error of letting the arms define the body for years, until I was corrected, and I thought it might make an interesting post.

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