Coach Willingham Dismissal -- FORDHAM RAMS FOOTBALL FORUM

>

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, [7], 8, 9, 10 ]

Subject: Coach Willingham Dismissal

Author:
Jimbo65
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 10:13:21 12/01/04 Wed

Im interested in your reactions to Coach W's dismissal. This is the first time in modern times,excluding O'Leary, that ND did not let a coach finish his contract. Why is that? Likely they want to get the Utah Coach lined up. I find the ND administration, as it pertains to athletics, to be deceitful and hypocritical. Hopefully the players will vote no on the bowl bid.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Subject Author Date

You'll find great support for your position in an ESPN article that labels ND a "football factory." It's pretty obvious that the writer thinks ND at root is not a university. Here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=1935406 (NT) Drag-less 12:47:08 12/01/04 Wed

Getting rid of the Coach isn't going to help. Willingham took a bad Stanford team and made winners out of them. Notre Dame just isn't good anymore. (NT) gorams 12:47:27 12/01/04 Wed

Good post Jimbo, I was thinking the same thing. You would think that if the improvements in every aspect except on the field were that great - and if ND as a university professes to care about the kids' education and moral development - he should get at least the full four years. If the W-L record was still not up to par after his fourth year then I could understand the firing. This incident revealed ND is as nakedly corrupt as the rest of the big I-A programs. (NT) DamnRam 13:01:11 12/01/04 Wed

Remember Notre Dame acquiesed when richard phelps broke his Fordham contract. they are holy than thou phonies in the most boring state in the Union. (NT) Meagher 74 18:01:41 12/01/04 Wed

How are they hypocritical? You think Willingham did not know the expectations of him when he took the job? Get a clue. They fired O'leary for a minor gaffe in his resume that was inconsequential. What should they do next hire a disabled, native american gay woman as coach? willingham left a better academic school to go to ND he knew the deal and he will be fine and get another job in a heartbeat., Notre Dame wants to be in contention to win a championship every year, whether it is realistic or not remains to be seen, but that was the clear expectation. WIllingham knew it and took the risk. (NT) -- Chief Nakahoma, 22:17:03 12/01/04 Wed

Willingham did not deliver on what was expected. It is a bottom line business. What the people at Notre Dame and the other great football powers don't want to accept is that the old days are gone, probably forever. ND, Alabama, Nebraska, all of the traditional powers, don't have a monopoly on the game anymore. A coach going in there has to have his eyes open and realize he's being asked to do the impossible. If he signs on, he is expected to produce. As we all know, athletics on this level has little to do with sport. (NT) An Old Coach 09:13:05 12/02/04 Thu

I agree that he did not deliver what was expected, most likely b/c the expectation was unrealistic. If they expected him to turn things around in less than 4 years then they in essence were admitting that the guy he replaced left the program in decent enough shape player-wise. I doubt many coaches will take a job if they are told that they have 3 years to produce. How many classes did Willingham actually have time to bring in? I know he definitely did not see any of them graduate, but am curious if he even brought in 3 classes or if his first class was similar to Whittenburg's first class. (NT) -- J�Dete93, 11:31:19 12/02/04 Thu

He really only had two classes. The expectations aren't realistic, but you have to know that going in. I have to think getting blown out on prime time national tv didn't help. I don't know why they think Meyer is the answer. He's coming into a world at Notre Dame that has nothing in common with Utah, no matter how successful they've been. The day he walks into ND, the clock is running. (NT) -- An Old Coach, 15:55:55 12/02/04 Thu

Wasn't Meyer an Asst. Coach at Notre Dame for a while? If so, he certainly knows what he's getting into. (NT) -- Rambacker, 16:57:41 12/02/04 Thu

He knows what they want. 10-1 every year and Top 10. The team to have a 3.0 average with 2-3 first round draft picks every year. It goes without saying that none of these kids should get arrested, get in fights or assault their girl friends. You could do it once in a while but no school can sustain that any more. Being an assistant at ND gives him a lot of insight I guess. I don't think much of what he brings from Utah is necessarily transferable. No Tennessee's or Michigan on Utah's schedule. (NT) -- An Old Coach, 17:18:45 12/02/04 Thu

Don't discredit Meyer's coaching ability. His team at Utah would whoop Tennessee or Michigan this year and he should be able to get Notre Dame to the same point. (NT) -- gorams, 21:12:51 12/02/04 Thu
My point is Meyer knows exactly what he's getting into at Notre Dame because he already coached there. I'm not talking about his coaching ability. (NT) -- Rambacker, 23:09:37 12/02/04 Thu

The stakes are even higher now and the business is more cut throat. You may be right but I think it's like being president. people will tell you what to expect but once you get there it is a different ball game. (NT) -- An Old Coach, 08:43:41 12/03/04 Fri

Meyer picks Gators over Irish (he's no dummy) -- Click here. (NT) -- ramMan, 16:32:52 12/03/04 Fri

He knew what he was getting into, that's why he didn't take it. ND has become the worst big time college football job on the country. This will be the third search where they didn't get their #1 candidate. (NT) -- An Old Coach, 09:06:21 12/04/04 Sat

Can we all agree that its awesome to see Notre Dame sucking so badly? They should start Rudy he'd probably produce more than the players they've got now. (NT) gorams 12:45:00 12/02/04 Thu

Even though Notre dame has not done well. Willingham definitely helped the program. The bottom line is top recruits don't want to go to a small catholic university anymore. Too many restrictions and to be honest most top high school athletes don't care about how good the education is. They want to go to the NFL. I believe he did well with what he had to work with (NT) Prince 15:42:25 12/02/04 Thu

Gee prince with what he had to work with? A national telesvision contract, top 10 facilities, the richest tradition in sports next to the yankees, a huge contract and funding in the top 3. get a freakin' clue. (NT) -- Oneal tooteen, 18:08:53 12/02/04 Thu

Notre Dame was ranked 13th 18th and 5th the past 3 years in recruiting. Yeah, I guess they can not get anybody to go there Prince. (NT) -- Fax, 18:22:04 12/02/04 Thu

Prince speaks sense. Many high school seniors are not so sophisticated as you make them out. They want to be pros. That is what motivated them not national tv contract, top 10 facilities. a top traditoon , a huge contract (whatever that means) and funding in the top 3. Do you hin they talk among themselves about those things and the courses they want to take? (NT) -- Prince is right, 20:18:49 12/02/04 Thu

Willingham was getting paid huge money. He was given very specific expectations that he himself understood and acknowledged. Notre Dame ahs recruited well, including a 5th ranked class in 2003. Prince speaks utter gibberish , absolutely no facts or data to backup Prince's comments. Not shocking. (NT) -- Toot, 20:30:50 12/02/04 Thu

What are you talkin about? I read a story in which ND officials that were interviewed said the exact same things I said when it comes to getting the best players. Check your own facts. And for the record gibberish can't be understood. Its not shocking to me for you to say something so stupid. (NT) -- Prince, 22:41:08 12/14/04 Tue

Prince's take on ND and College sports in general is on the money. Kids want to go to the program where they think they have the best shot to go pro. Many of them are blinded to what college is supposed to be about. ND used to be one of the schools cornering the market on the best prospects. Willingham did ok under the circumstances. The good fathers at ND have their heads in the clouds if they think they can contend for championships every year with the type of kids they've been getting. I'll bet anything they are going to loosen up on who they bring in. You can't win any other way. (NT) -- An Old Coach, 08:41:13 12/03/04 Fri

Class rankings mean nothing. FSU has had a top 5 recruiting class for the last few years and tell me how many National Championships they have (NT) -- Prince, 22:32:30 12/14/04 Tue

All that stuff is great, but it doesn't mean you are going to win. If you look at the best players on their team, they really aren't that great. (NT) -- Prince, 22:35:56 12/14/04 Tue

Ahhh rankings people.... yeah those recruiting rankings were really holding true as USC's players were trotting past the Irish defenders and their lineman were getting bulldozed. How about you guys pull your heads away from the magazines for one second and actually watch the game. The talent at Notre Dame stinks!!! (NT) gorams 19:46:11 12/02/04 Thu

Toot you sound like more of an idiot w/ every post! Did you watch their games this year or are you just a magazine junkie? Knute Rockne wouldn't have won more games than Willingham. (NT) gorams 20:56:34 12/02/04 Thu

Where are these class rankings coming from? I haven't seen their classes in the top 25 in any of the past three years. (NT) -- CKRAM98, 13:02:26 12/03/04 Fri

http://espn.go.com/recruiting/s/earlysignTop25.html (NT) -- King, 13:22:47 12/04/04 Sat

That is early signings from 2002. Last year in the final class rankings they were not in the top 25 (prove me wrong). (NT) -- CKRAM98, 10:03:59 12/06/04 Mon

ND has been in top 20 of recruitng classes the past 5 years on every major recruiting ranking service. Hence Prince has no idea what he is talking about when he says that top athletes do not want to go to ND, that's just factually wrong. Stop defending that big mouth and look at some of the garbage he posts which is usually flat wrong. (NT) -- Fordham Rams #25, 14:42:54 12/04/04 Sat

No coaches look at these "rankings" at all. They only mention them if they are named in them but no one takes it seriously. Many of the kids who get scholarships are projects and aren't on any of these scouting service's radars. That's why they redshirt so many freshmen. (NT) -- An Old Coach, 08:20:02 12/05/04 Sun

Of course rankings are subjective but are the only barometers for what is used to determine whether the elite high school players are choosing certain schools. Clearly, over the past 5 years Notre Dame has been right smack in the mix with all of the other football powers. Again, we are singling out one preposterous argument, that being that the high school eleites no longer want to go to a "small Catholic scoohl" that is the argument here and as usual Prince is 180 degrees from the truth. Stop trying to defend these idiotic comments from Prince, stick with the issue at hand. (NT) -- FU Rams #25, 10:36:03 12/05/04 Sun

Has Prince been informed that there are only 2 Catholic schools playing D-1A football? Boston College has done very very well the past 5 years. I guess Prince as usual is misinformed. His posts are factually inaccurate, opinionated loads of garbage. (NT) -- BC Eagles, 11:06:19 12/05/04 Sun

And you saying that Boston College is doing great is a opinionated piece of crap. They suck. They would probably beat the crap out of Forfham, but they suck in 1-A. Didn;t they almost lose to Temple or Duke? (NT) -- Prince, 22:55:20 12/14/04 Tue

Rams 25, how can I be 180 degrees away from the truth when all I was stating is an opinion. When I look at recruiting websites I never see the top players list ND. Tell me when is the last time a player in the top 10 went to ND. You show me some facts. (NT) -- Prince, 22:50:28 12/14/04 Tue

You're joking w/ this post right? (NT) -- gorams, 19:46:02 12/06/04 Mon
It seems as though whenever I say something one of you so-called men must find a way to insult me. What is the hostility for? I would love to know b/c if you take what is said on the message board that serious you really need something else in your life. Do you need a hobby or something. (NT) -- Prince, 22:45:02 12/14/04 Tue

Boston College is a team that has done well lately? Obviously you don't set your sights very high. I don't care what ranking you look at. Watch ND on the field and they don't have the athletes to compete w/ the top programs. You're an idiot if you're gonna base your arguement on some magazine publication of ND's ranking as far as their recruiting classes. They are slower smaller and aren't even close to being fast enought to play w/ the top programs. Just look at the USC game, Prince actually PLAYED the game and his comments make more sense than yours ever have. (NT) gorams 12:53:28 12/06/04 Mon

Agree with GO Rams and Prince. ND is living in the past. They are not top dog anymore with respect to recruits or apparently with would be coaches. Didn't they realize that the President of Florida had just come there from the Presidency of Utah, that he was friends with Meyer and that they had been speaking for a year about his going there to Florida. ND just assumed Meyer would just die to go there. BC you have some tough years ahead too (NT) -- FU, 14:09:26 12/06/04 Mon

BC "Whore U." at least lives in reality and they freely admit that college athletics has nothing to do with higher ed. What school has been involved in more scandals over the past 20 years? What school jumped into a conference with the closest competitor is about 400 miles away and the rest of the conference is in another geographic region? That's right, our Jesuit friends from Boston. Give ND a little more time though, it looks like they have come to the same conclusion. (NT) -- Ramadama, 09:03:34 12/07/04 Tue

It'll be interesting to see how the move to the ACC will affect applications to BC from the Southeastern US and how it affects their overall academic standing. Why do I get the feeling that the move will help BC improve their academic standing? (NT) -- Rambacker, 18:15:06 12/07/04 Tue

You feel that way I guess because you are envious of schools with big time athletic programs, even the wonderful Catholic schools who have totally sold out to get there. You can justify anything if you really want to. (NT) -- Ramadama, 08:41:29 12/08/04 Wed

That's a whole other arguement. I don't consider the Notre Dames/BC's selling out. I wish Fordham would do the same. Its not selling out, its competing. However, this argument was about how Notre Dame (eventhough they've sold out) still isn't competing w/ the top programs. They still suck! (NT) -- gorams, 12:13:41 12/08/04 Wed

Universities can have winning national athletic programs without selling out. Don't paint everything with such a broad brush. It's all how it's handled, and we'll do it right. (NT) -- Rambacker, 14:02:22 12/08/04 Wed

Name one! (NT) -- gorams, 17:45:08 12/08/04 Wed

If you don't know which schools run clean, winning big time programs I can't help you. Start reading. (NT) -- Rambacker, 12:25:45 12/11/04 Sat

In football, there are none. Give me one in the top 25 for the past 5 years that hasn't opened up the doors. (NT) -- Ramadama, 16:02:04 12/11/04 Sat

I'm talking about big time athletic programs, not 1-A football. Don't redirect the subject to try to climb out of the hole you're in. (NT) -- Rambacker, 10:18:15 12/12/04 Sun

First, in athletics we never do anything right. Please refer to next few schedules in football. Second, I strongly believe and the national media seems to concur thi week, that it isn't possible to win without opening the doors for athletes. Look at ND and Staford, coaches fired. N'western, marginal. Duke, Rice? Please. Michigan? Where are the great teams with academic credentials? (NT) -- An Old Coach, 20:36:40 12/08/04 Wed

What a defeatist attitude. Glad you're not on my team. Stanford has won the Sears Cup for best overall athletic program many times. Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia, Xavier, St. Joseph's, Dayton, Cal-Berkeley, Utah, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, just to name a few that have been very successful in hoops or football. Get real. (NT) -- Rambacker, 21:08:49 12/09/04 Thu

I'm glad there is no chance you'll ever have the chance to prostitute our academic image over football, which is the sport were talking about. See story in Chronicle today about the graduation rates of bowl bound schools. While you're at it, name me a school with a great academic reputation that has a string of 5-6 years in the Top 25. You can't because there are none. Winning football without opening the gates to players is not possible today. (NT) -- An Old Coach, 15:03:16 12/10/04 Fri

I'm not talking about Div. 1-A football here, and you know it. You're just trying to stretch the subject to a place that supports your argument. We can win in 1-AA football at the highest level with full scholarships, and that's a fact. People like you who always have an excuse as to why we CAN'T accomplish a worthwhile goal are why Fordham has been mired in athletic mediocrity for so long. We can and will be successful without cheating in the future. It's all how it's handled and we will handle it right. Non-believers please stand to the side as we push forward. (NT) -- Rambacker, 09:11:20 12/11/04 Sat

Scholarships without a gigantic investment in facilities would be a waste of time. Even with scholarships, you are going to have to lower the bar significantly in admissions to get the kids in. No other way to build a consistant winner. It would put us where we are now in a better league. I'm not a non believer. I am highly doubtful of the University's commitment to the program. As you yourself has said, this latest facility upgrade is a bandaid. I will believe it when I see it. (NT) -- An Old Coach, 11:15:30 12/11/04 Sat

We all need to believe and stay positive on this. It can happen but we have to make it happen. That includes stepping up financially. (NT) -- Rambacker, 12:28:26 12/11/04 Sat
The FieldTurf, lights and renovated lockerrooms may be a bandaid, but they're a relatively significant and sorely needed one that will take us through the next 5-10 years while we work on getting better facilities as part of a strategic plan (which I'm sure will include upgraded basketball facilities as well). The fact that Fordham invested in the incremental upgrades at all shows me that they are committed to our success, albeit at a level reasonably commensurate to the stakes involved (non-schollie Patriot League). The real "stepping up" now needs to come from the alumni and students. (NT) -- DamnRam, 13:51:49 12/13/04 Mon

That's absolutely right. But please do us all a favor and drop the "10 years" part. (NT) -- Rambacker, 22:36:52 12/13/04 Mon
Re: The FieldTurf, lights and renovated lockerrooms may be a bandaid, but they're a relatively significant and sorely needed one that will take us through the next 5-10 years while we work on getting better facilities as part of a strategic plan (which I'm sure will include upgraded basketball facilities as well). The fact that Fordham invested in the incremental upgrades at all shows me that they are committed to our success, albeit at a level reasonably commensurate to the stakes involved (non-schollie Patriot League). The real "stepping up" now needs to come from the alumni and students. -- Rammy, 14:28:46 12/22/04 Wed