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Date Posted: 19:35:17 03/17/02 Sun
Author: Adilbrand
Subject: Re: Did jesus die? Or was he asleep?
In reply to: theefool 's message, "Did jesus die? Or was he asleep?" on 18:13:40 03/17/02 Sun

For almost 2 millennia, the Christian Church has taught that Jesus was crucified, died, and was bodily resurrected (i.e. returned to life in his original body) three days later. This has long been one of the church's foundational beliefs, along with the inerrancy of the Bible, and the virgin birth, the atonement, the future second coming of Jesus, etc. Some religious liberals believe that Jesus died by crucifixion, was buried, but was not resurrected. Muslims, who total in excess of one billion believers worldwide, believe that Jesus was neither crucified nor resurrected. The feel that such a great prophet of God would not suffer such a death. The believe that he died of natural causes.

"Belief in the resurrection is not an appendage to the Christian faith. It is the Christian faith." George Carey, Archbishop of Canterbury, London Times, 1992-APR-19.

"Jesus...was...placed into a common grave, and covered over...in a very short time only some unmarked bones remained. Even the bones were gone before too long. Nature rather efficiently reclaims its own resources." John S. Spong, "Resurrection: Myth or Reality?," P. 241

In August of 1999, George Cary, Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury was at the center of a media storm over the resurrection. An interview by a reporter from The Mail newspaper was published on August 1st. Cary was quoted as saying: "While we can be absolutely sure that Jesus lived and that he was certainly crucified on the cross, we cannot with the same certainty say that we know he was raised by God from the dead."

Opposition Member of Parliament Ann Widdecombe said that if the Archbishop "in any way leaves the Resurrection open to doubt, then that is the ultimate betrayal." Archbishop Cary commented later that he had been misquoted. He had actually said that there is enough historical evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Jesus lived; however there is not the same amount of evidence that he was resurrected.

The Gospel of Mark and Luke are ambiguous about the day of the week when Jesus died. They referred to it being a preparation day. This could be the day before the weekly Sabbath i.e. Friday. Or it could be the day before a high or yearly Sabbath. The latter can occur on any day of the week. The Gospel of John also mentions that Jesus died on a preparation day. But various versions of the Bible translate John 19:31 in different ways; some can be interpreted as pointing to a weekly Sabbath; others to a ceremonial Sabbath; others to a ceremonial Sabbath that happened also to be a weekly Sabbath. So, a case could be made for Jesus' death having happened on any day of the week.

One 1st century custom might shed some light on the probable day. This was a pre-scientific era when medical techniques were quite primitive. Many people who were unconscious or in a coma were assumed to be dead. So their family would check on the corpse a few days later, to confirm that the loved one was indeed dead. A Sunday morning visitation would be consistent with a death on Wednesday afternoon (as some Biblical scholars believe) or a Thursday afternoon or a Friday afternoon (as Christian faith groups generally teach).

Although essentially all Christian faith groups believe that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday morning, the Gospels are somewhat vague when identifying the day of the week and the time. His resurrection occurred sometime before the woman/women visited the tomb on Sunday morning. The writer of the Gospel of John says that Mary Magdelene visited the tomb before sunrise on Sunday; the authors of Mark and Matthew say it happened at about dawn; Luke is vague. So the resurrection could have happened on Sunday morning, in the daytime just after sunrise. Alternately, it could have happened at night before Sunday sunrise, or even earlier. (Mark 16:9 states specifically that Jesus rose early on Sunday morning; however verses 6 to 20 are generally regarded as a later forgery).

The interval between death and resurrection is given as three days in many places in the Gospels:

Matthew 16:21, 17:23, 20:19; Luke 9:22, 13:32, 24:46: "on the third day" John 2:19 "in three days"

These passages would be consistent with a Friday afternoon death and Sunday morning resurrection, because of the Jewish "inclusive" reckoning of time. During the first century CE, they counted a part of a day as if it were a complete 24 hour day. Also a day started at sundown, and continued through the nighttime, ended at sundown on the next day. So the few hours between the death and sundown on Friday would be counted as one day; Saturday was the second; and the part day between Saturday sundown and the resurrection would be counted as a complete day - the third. In modern times, we tend to think of three days as exactly 72 hours. We would describe the interval from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning as one and a half days. In early Christian times, three days could be anywhere from a little over 24 hours to as many as 72 hours. This is illustrated by Luke 13:32: "...I will drive out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal." By Jesus' reckoning, this would be three days; by our computation it is one full day (tomorrow) and two part days (today and the day after tomorrow). 11

But the Gospel passages cited above are in conflict with:

Matthew 12:40 in which Jesus said that he would be "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (KJV).

Knowing that Jesus died in the hours before a sunset, one possible explanation is that he died on Thursday afternoon, was dead for part of that afternoon (one day), all day Friday and Saturday (two nights and two days) and was resurrected sometime between sundown on Saturday and sunrise on Sunday (one night). That would total 3 days and three nights, and would allow for the empty tomb being discovered some hours later, before or near sunrise on Sunday.

Another explanation is that the woman/women visited the tomb just before sundown on the Sabbath. Matthew 28:1 could be interpreted that way. 72 hours prior to that time would be Wednesday afternoon. This suggestion has been put forward by some Biblical scholars, but suffers from a major weakness: If Jesus died on Wednesday afternoon and was resurrected before Saturday sundown, then he would have been dead for 2 full days and 2 part days - considered 4 full days, not three, by the writers of the gospels.

A final gospel verse which might shed light on the days of the week when Jesus died and was resurrected is:

Mark 8:31: "...and after three days rise again."

This would seem to imply that the resurrection would occur after three days had passed. 4,5, or 6 days between death and resurrection would generate a multitude of scenarios.

Depending on which passage(s) that one accepts as authoritative, a variety of possible days of the week can be selected for Jesus' death and resurrection. If one ignores Mark 8:31 and Matthew 12:40, then the remaining verses are consistent with a Friday afternoon crucifixion and a Sunday morning resurrection. And this alternative is what most Christian faith groups take.

One common guess for the year of Jesus' death is 30 CE. That would mean his crucifixion happened on the afternoon of Friday, 30-APR-7 CE and his resurrection on Sunday, 30-APR-9 CE. Christians do not attempt to observe the precise anniversary of Jesus' resurrection. The timing of Easter Sunday is based on the spring solstice and phases of the moon, echoing back to earlier Pagan sun and moon worship. The name "Easter" itself comes from the ancient Pagan Saxon Goddess of the springtime: Eostre.

Religious conservatives generally view the Bible as inerrant. Thus the resurrection event is not debatable. To them, it actually happened, exactly as described in the Gospels. Most liberal theologians tend to approach passages in the Bible differently. They consider it to be written by very human, spiritually minded, fallible authors, who often promoted their own religious belief system. Liberals compare Bible passages in the light of contemporary Jewish, Pagan and non-canonical Christian writings. They also study the culture of the time and the beliefs of surrounding Pagan societies. Of particular interest are the evolving beliefs of the followers of Christ during the approximately seven decades between the crucifixion and the completion of the last Gospel, John. They have come to very different conclusions about the resurrection.

The beliefs of mainline Christian clergy and academics tend to be between those of the liberals and conservatives. A survey of mostly mainline Protestant clergy 1 shows that many doubt Jesus' physical resurrection. Percentage of doubters are:

American Lutherans: 13%
Presbyterians: 30%
American Baptist: 33%
Episcopalians: 35%
Methodists: 51%

There is a massive gap between the beliefs of the clergy and laity in mainline and liberal churches. A recent survey of randomly selected Christians revealed that 96% believe the resurrection to have been an historical event.

Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died a normal death, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God.

They also believe that Paul regarded the resurrection to be an act of God in which Jesus was a passive recipient of God's power. Paul knew nothing of the empty tomb, the stone, and reunion with his followers in his resuscitated body. Rather, he believed that Jesus was taken up into heaven in a spirit body.

Later, perhaps after Paul's death, there was great disappointment within the Christian communities because Jesus had not returned as expected. They diverted their focus of attention away from Jesus' second coming. They studied his life and death more intensely. Legends without a historical basis were created by the early church; these included the empty tomb and described Jesus returning in his original body to eat and talk with his followers.

How the resurrection story evolved:
It is unfortunate that the Christian Scriptures are arranged in the order Matthew to Revelation. Some publisher would do a great service to humanity by publishing a New Testament in which the books are re-arranged in chronological order by the date in which they were written: i.e. I Thessalonians would be the first book. It would be followed by other epistles, Mark, Matthew, Luke, Acts, Hebrews, Revelation, John, Jude, II Peter. Last would be group of Pastoral Epistles attributed to Paul but which were written decades after his death. There is much debate among theologians about the absolute dates of each of these books. There is greater agreement of the probable sequence in which they were written. A New Testament in chronological order would help the reader understand the development through time of various Christian beliefs, including that of the resurrection.

Consider the following time line; dates are approximate:

30 CE: The approximate year of Jesus' execution by the Romans.

50 CE: For two decades, the words and acts of Jesus and his followers had been transmitted orally. Nothing seems to have been written down before this date. One or more members of a group of Jesus' followers write the first draft of the Gospel of Q. The author(s) do not mention the resurrection. This may have been because they were unaware of the event or because they wanted to concentrate mainly on Jesus' teachings.

Paul wrote I Thessalonians. The main thrust of his letter deals with the second coming of Jesus which he expected would occur at any time. But he mentions the resurrection in two passages:

I Thess. 1:10: He describes God as having been responsible for raising Jesus "from the dead."
I Thess. 4:14: "We believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with him through Jesus those who have fallen asleep [in death]" (Amplified Bible)

His concept is that God raised Jesus from the dead and will do the same thing for others.

55 to 65 CE: Paul writes a series of letters to churches in various cities. In I Corinthians 15:3-8" he says "...I [Paul] passed on to you...that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time,...then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me..." Paul used the phrase "he was raised" As Bishop Spong has written:

"...the power of resurrection resided with God. God was the initiator...Jesus was the recipient, the one acted upon. Paul never used anything but the passive verb to discuss the Easter event and he used that form 37 times. For Paul, Jesus was raised by God. Jesus did not rise."

To Paul, Jesus was not restored to life in his original body in order to walk around and talk to his followers. Rather, Jesus was raised from death into the presence of God in a spiritual body. As he writes in I Corinthians 15:50 Paul believed: "...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

Paul seems to be unaware of the empty tomb, of the bodily resurrection, of the visitation by one or more women, and other details of the resurrection story as was written later in the gospels. It is also doubtful that the story was known by other Christians at that time. It is probable that the account was created after Paul's death.

It is also doubtful that Jesus appeared to a crowd of more than 500. A dead man talking to a group would be such a miraculous event that word of it would spread very widely. The incident would have been recorded by other Christian authors and also by non-Christian historians of the time. No other trace of the group of 500 exists.

64 CE: This is the approximate date when Paul is executed by the Romans.

70 CE: The Jerusalem Temple, the center of Judaism, and the city itself was destroyed. Many Jews were driven from Palestine and dispersed.

73 CE: At about this time, an unidentified author wrote the first of the gospels which made it into the official canon: the Gospel of Mark. By this time, a legend had grown up which added to people's beliefs about Jesus' death and resurrection. It consisted of a series of images which together made a bare-bones account of the events: Jesus' last words; the temple veil, the comment by a centurion; the watching women; Joseph of Arimathea obtaining the body; the tomb and its stone; visitation by some women; the young man in the white robe, and the women fleeing from the tomb, telling nobody of their experience. The cave and its stone was probably a Midrash echo of Joshua, Chapter 10.
Perhaps the most important component of these 22 verses is the simple phrase in Mark 16:6: "...He is risen!..." Mark contradicted Paul's concept that Jesus was raised by God. Mark writes that Jesus has raised himself!

The gospel has one major deficiency: its ending leaves a reader hanging. The young man has told the women to go to the disciples and tell them that Jesus will wait for them in Galilee. But they ran away and didn't tell anyone. So, we do not know if the meeting actually took place.

83 CE: At about this time, another unidentified author wrote the Gospel of Matthew, using the text of Mark as a foundation. "Matthew" augmented Mark's account of the resurrection. He added some new story elements that he picked up from accounts circulating in the early 80's. These included: the earthquake at the time of Jesus' death, the tombs breaking open and the holy people returning to life.

By this time, over 50 years after the crucifixion, there was a serious conflict between the Christian movements and the Jewish authorities. The Jews believed that the disciples had stolen Jesus' body in order to falsely claim that he had risen from the dead. To counter this argument, Matthew apparently added verses 27:63-6 and 28:11-15.

Mark's young man in a white robe became an angel with the appearance of lightning. The confused women became women who were afraid yet filled with joy. The angel told the women that Jesus "is not here; he has risen, just as he said..." (Matthew 28:6). They were instructed to tell the brethren that "He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee." The brethren went there, and Jesus gave them the Great Commission. The seal on the stone and presence of the guards may be a Midrash link back to Daniel 6:17. The shining angel and trembling guards may be a link to Daniel 10:4-10.

Matthew added the first Biblical passage to be written which describes Jesus in his original body talking to believers. The women recognized him, and "clasped his feet"; he spoke to them. Matthew is explaining that Jesus appeared in a physical form - his original human body. The break from Paul's belief of a spirit body which Mark stated is here confirmed by Matthew.

90 CE: An unidentified author wrote both the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts at about this time. The resurrection story had expanded by this time to include grave clothes; one man had become two; Jesus met Cleopas and a friend on the road to Emmaus; Jesus had a meal with them and then disappeared; Jesus appears to the disciples "and those with them and proves to them that he has a real body; he ate some fish, and preached to them. Finally, he took them to Bethany, blessed them, and ascended into heaven. (The meals of course would be proof-positive that Jesus was in a real, human body; ghosts don't eat.)

The NIV translation of the Bible appears to contain a error. Verse Luke 24:7 reads "The Son of Man must....be raised again. Describing Jesus as having to "be raised" would be a throwback to Paul's belief that Jesus was passively raised by God - an unlikely event. The Amplified Bible, King James Version, Living Bible, Modern Language Bible, New American Bible, New American Standard Bible, New Revised Standard Version, and Reims New Testament all have Jesus "rise" from the dead. The NIV translation of this verse is incompatible with the rest of the gospels and should probably be ignored.

Approximately 100 CE: An unidentified author or group of authors wrote the Gospel of John over an extended interval of time. The author(s) add still more details to the resurrection story: the two men have become two angels; Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene after the disciples have left the empty tomb; the "doubting Thomas" story is included; Jesus appears at the Sea of Tiberias and the miraculous catch of fish; Peter is reinstated to a position of authority.

One interpretation of the resurrection story concludes that the earliest followers of Jesus knew nothing about the resurrection. Paul believed that Jesus had a passive role in his resurrection. He was raised by God into heaven, housed in a spirit body. His physical body rotted. The story of the tomb, its stone, the angels, men and women at the tomb, of Jesus meeting, talking and eating with his followers, etc. is a myth, a legend created by various Christian movements many decades after Jesus' execution. That saga became captured in the four canonical gospels at different stages in its development.

The early belief, that Jesus was raised in a spirit body, blends with the later myth that Jesus rose himself, in his original body. Echoes of both beliefs are seen in the gospels:

References to His Spirit Resurrection: Some Gospel passages imply that he was housed in a spirit body. The Gospel authors might have been influenced by Gnostic Christian beliefs: Luke 24:31: Jesus suddenly disappeared from sight.

Luke 24:37: The disciples thought that he was a ghost.
John 20:17: Jesus cautioned Mary Magdelene not to hold on to him because he had not yet returned to the Father.
John 20:19-26: On two occasions, a week apart, Jesus suddenly appears with the disciples in a locked room.

References to his Bodily Resurrection: Other passages in the gospels emphasize Jesus physical body, his ability to speak and to eat: Matthew 28:9: Jesus is described as speaking; two women clasped his feet.
Luke 24:15: Jesus meets two disciples; he walks and eats bread with them.
Luke 24:15: Jesus shows his disciples the wounds in his hands and feet. Then he ate some fish, perhaps to emphasize that he was in his human body.

Luke 24:50: Jesus raised his hands and blessed them. Then he was taken up into heaven

John 20:20-27: Jesus twice shows his disciples his injured hands and side.

John 21:12-13: The disciples ate breakfast with Jesus.

Odd References to Jesus' Appearance: There are also strange references to Jesus' after his resurrection which seem to indicate that he did appeared in a human body that was not his original body. Although his followers had spent either 1 year (as stated in the synoptic gospels) or 3 years (as mentioned in John) in close contact with Jesus during their travels, they did not recognize him when they saw him after his resurrection: Luke 24:31: Two of his disciples walked and talked with Jesus, perhaps for hours. But they did not recognize him.

John 20:15: Mary Magdalene saw and talked to Jesus, but thought that he was the gardener.

John 21:4: The disciples did not recognize Jesus on the sea shore.

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Replies:

  • Re: Did jesus die? Or was he asleep? -- mt. healthy mountaineer, 08:10:45 03/18/02 Mon
  • Re: Did jesus die? Or was he asleep? -- Adilbrand, 11:46:13 03/18/02 Mon
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