VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, [9], 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 03:46:54 10/14/05 Fri
Author: Celebaelin
Subject: Can it be babies?
In reply to: Celebaelin 's message, "Unexpected pleasures (spoilers BtVS Entropy! LOL)" on 12:14:13 10/13/05 Thu

Thanks all, I'll be as clear as my fog-bound mind permits in explaining my POV about Spike in Entropy, but first some other stuff.

Ahhh yes, the music. If music be the food of love why don't rabbits play the bongos? I'm going to dispense with the 'IMO's and the 'I think's and just be arrogant and categorical, anyone reading who disagrees is, of course, invited to tell me their POV or for that matter to tell me why mine is wrong.

Buffy leans heavily on music the lyrical content of which communicates unease. Regret, uncertainty and longing are all principal 'players' in the emotional cast and the libretto is ably supported by the music itself which is presented in a form which the modern western ear recognises as sympathetic to these underlying tensions. This is cerebral rather than visceral and I think of it as a particularly female (if not necessarily conventionally feminine) approach. Even 'Dingos' don't display traditional head down and go for it rock values, the program style essentially dictates that this is the case and the edgy music 'uniforms' of punk and metal are, in a dissappointing adherence to conventional traditional attitudes of mistrust and alienation, identified with the forces of evil. The one positive point in this regard is that whilst these rebel relics may be conveniently labelled as the hoardes of chaos they are at least not hypocritical about it, as was once said about Wagner they say what they mean, and they usually mean something nasty. But enough of this, there are after all enough bands producing music of that heritage in various guises for the audience that wishes to consume it to be content, although good music in any given genre is a rarity by definition. Good music will always be distinctive, the converse unfortunately is rarely the case.

The overt music of Buffy works, it works for the series, it works for the individual moments and the mood it sets is a good contrast to the action scenes. A great deal depends upon the hook to which you're responding visual, musical, action, emotion; any or all of these could bring you to Buffy. Much has been said recently about the music which ran under the final battle in Chosen; I have to admit I wouldn't recognise it, its effect on me was entirely subliminal. I imagine something thrumming and bass heavy but this just supposition, it serves its purpose but I imagine it wouldn't funtion particularly well in isolation. It is this aspect that I anticipated would be overcome in Serenity, a film which has fewer mood moments 'pound for pound' than BtVS and which might have generated some suitable fodder for vicarious adrenaline junkies but alas no. What we were given was a departure of a different kind; I await the final verdict on Serenity but as it stands it seems that regarding the silent moments in space no-one can hear you squee.

At the moment I'm getting three 'another chance to see's per day here, today its Seeing Red, Villains and Entropy. The current format is a total of three showings of each aired ep. on sequential weekdays. I am of course campaigning for a 24hr public access Buffy channel but so far with little success. DVDs huh? Now there's a novel idea, it'll never catch on you know!

And so to the promised Spikeness.

Firstly, for Manwitch and anyone else who's interested, lets get the 'Anya as Buffy's libido' part out of the way. I'll do this in shorthand as I think it'll communicate everything I need to say, no nuances of meaning are required IMO.

Buffy/Spike

Ego/Shadow? Conventionally shadow would be same sex. Some kind of union of opposites at any rate

and

Anya/Xander

Libido/Heart. Sounds like true love to me.

then

Heart rejects Libido. It's not just the sex, or perhaps it's not sexual.

then

Buffy rejects Spike

As regards individuation this is bad news, a retrograde step where the Ego doesn't recognise itself in the mirror as it were.

then

Anya/Spike

The incorporation of the Libido into the Shadow (eventually Spike and Anya both die in Chosen)

then

Spike tries to rape Buffy on the bathroom floor

'nuff said.

None of the above was really what I meant about the kinder Spike, although it is relevant to a certain extent. I was referring to an interpretation form within the events on screen seeing characters as individuals in their own right.

I'm making the assumption that Spike has picked up on Anya's none too subtle attempts to make him wish unspeakable nastiness on Xander. He, of all the characters should be able to tell that Anya is now a demon again and to a certain extent if Spike is "Hello, evil" as is the usual assumption then after taking a beating in the graveyard earlier why wouldn't he just make whatever wish would lead to maximum squishiness vav Xander.

But this doesn't happen, instead Spike takes the opportunity to 'move on' and we (Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Xander and the Trio) see the revenge sex for Spike and Anya. Now whilst 'kind' wouldn't normally be the word I'd use for this sort of thing 'kinder than slowly turning inside out whilst being lashed with razor wire' would probably apply. The word 'fair' might even be somewhere near the mark. Anyway it's not until after Xander tries to kill him with an axe that the words 'I wish' cross his lips and even then Anya just saying 'Don't' wouldn't stop a minion of evil if such was his real intent. In truth for all their posturing and flirtations with the dark path hanging around the Scoobs has softened the evil of these two as, in hindsight, we know only too well.

Incidentally in the Spike(Anya) = Shadow approach Buffy's increasing knowledge of her own demonic origins fits exactly with this.

Whadya reckon (the hospital?)

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.