- I just put some tea on the stove! Anyone want a cup or two or perhaps a Tracy's Baileys with a hint o' Casey and Jamie? It's Sunday night and I'm looking for someone to cuddle with :) --
Tracy, 19:56:02 11/15/09 Sun [4]
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- Captchas are on! -- PeggyB, 21:05:13 11/10/09 Tue [1]
We got spammed again, so Captchas are back on for a while. Sorry.
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-- celtgirl, 18:51:58 10/07/09 Wed [52]
This is just a wee note to say thank you to all the ladies that came on the Shamrock Shindig, I'm so glad I had the opportunity to be in Ireland with you all. I hope that if you had questions, you asked them, and that I responded in a satisfactory manner. Except for the question Marilyn and Carla asked me, I simply couldn't answer that one ladies. :)
For some time now, I've been struggling with the question as to whether my work had relevance at S&S anymore, I wasn't sure that it was a part of things here, or necessary to the website in general, but being able to share with you all in Ireland, made me realize many people still do see my work as having a part in the identity and flow of S&S. It was good to hear that. :)
It meant alot to me to be able to be with you all as you saw Derry for the first time, and to go through the Bloody Sunday museum. I wish I could have shown you more of 'my Belfast' but time constraints just didn't allow for that. I hope you got a flavour of where Casey and Pamela lived, and that far mountain where his Lordship resides. It's a city I truly love, it's not big, it's not terribly grand, but it has my heart in a way no other city does.
It's my hope that the books will 'live' in a more three dimensional way for each of you now that you've seen Northern Ireland and that with all the history we were given there, that things in the books will seem less inexplicable.
I wanted to say thank you for the quilt as well, I'll always treasure it as a memory of our time together in Ireland. Thank you to Elaine for making it, and for all her hard work in organizing the trip as well as all the other Shammies that were involved in the planning of the Shindig.
Again, thank you, I had a great time on the trip, and I think it's amazing so many of us were there together.
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- Since my return from Ireland, I've been asked about my trip. People are expecting to hear about the beautiful countryside, castles or maybe the lovely Irish accent, but when I say that I saw those things, but more importantly was able to share an insight into conflicts which have plagued the citizens of Ireland for centuries I receive a quizzical look. I tell them about your books, Cindy, and their relevance to the past and current ideologies and how our tour was designed to explore more than the touristy sights of the Emerald Isle. >>>> -- Denise, 19:24:08 10/07/09 Wed
- (((cindy))) Absolutely your works have HUMONGOUS relevance at S&S, I'm sorry you were feeling unsure about that. Thank you so much for showing us N.Ireland. When it became apparent that I would have to choose only one week of the shindig to attend, it was an easy choice that it should be the first week, for the most unique opportunity to see the country from a perspective few "tourists" are fortunate to have. I have to ditto much of what Denise said above. People are so surprised when they ask where in Ireland we went...and I tell them! Justin was looking at my photos the other day and was particuarly looking at the gable-end murals and asking about the guns. I need to sit him down and try to explain the history, something my parents never did for me. (NT) -- PeggyB, 23:03:17 10/07/09 Wed
- It absolutely brought your books and characters to life me Cindy, I feel so much more attached than I did previously and can see the places better. I also have a better understanding of all the groups etc involved. I would have like to see Donegal and Dingle, but that might have to wait for next time *g* I was very grateful to be able to ask what I wanted and not be made to feel dumb, so thatnk you for that. I am going to download the second set of discussions and have a read of them when time allows. (NT) -- Sheila, 00:04:21 10/08/09 Thu
- XXX's and OOO's to a dear friend and brilliant author. (NT) -- E, 03:45:25 10/08/09 Thu
- Our time in the North was very special to me, as well. Putting a true visual to the places and events you describe so vividly in the Books was a priceless experience for me. When people ask what the most memorable part of the trip was, I tell them it was standing in the Bloody Sunday Museum listening to a man describe the murder of his 17 year old brother just down the street and how his mother was in the apartment just across the way, and the death of a young typesetter just outside the doors on his grandparent's front steps. I know I will go back to Northern Ireland again, spend more time in Belfast (with any luck with Cindy), Derry and just exploring the countryside. The trip was made all the more meaningful and special for sharing it with Cindy, whose work has brought us all together, as well as with the other Shammies who "get it" when it comes not only to the Books but to The Troubles. (NT) -- Carla, 04:38:17 10/08/09 Thu
- Walking & talking with you Cindy throughout Belfast was an experience I may never have again, so it was enriching & eye-opening in all the ways it matters to my heart & mind.Being able to experience Ireland with the Shammies who "get it" & know about the books was truly wonderful! I said quite a few times "Wow, this is where Pat marched", "OMG! This is where Casey stood", "Look! There's the hill & Jamie's mansion" so yes, the characters & the places are more alive to me & I have a deeper appreciation for Ireland, the people & history. I know you felt a disconnect but YOUR BOOKS are exactly why I am here & they should always be in the forefront on this site.It's a shame that not everyone has read your books because I think they are missing out on one hell of a story! You & the books are exactly why I wanted to go on the Shindig & had to choose a week & the first was the one for me because of your books and the places in them.I appreciate you & your gift.Thank you>>>>>>>>>> -- Tracy, 06:40:47 10/08/09 Thu
- As I read your note and everyone's replies tears are streaming down my cheeks. I guess we all feel a certain amount of disconnect at one time with regards to a certain aspect of our lives. Ironic that we often discover it to be more pivitol than we ever realized. I'm not as eloquent as yourself or the other Shammies but I think you know just how much this trip meant to me and I'm not talking just about my family and visiting the south. So much was brought to life for me and made so tangible that it often made my heart ache. I can't imagine Ireland without you, your characters or fellow Shammies and I definitely will go back! (NT) -- CindyS, 10:43:12 10/08/09 Thu
- It was a huge honor to share Ireland with you girl, especially Northern Ireland. It's because of you and your books that most of us have the level of interest we do and some of the knowledge we have about the wee island and her history. So absolutely you and your books are a big part of this place. Like I said before, we didn't just decide to take a trip together and randomly pick Ireland *g* I had half expected to fall in love with Belfast but it was wee Derry that got me :-) Love Belfast too and the peace wall area really touched me, but I don't think we had enough 'walk about' time there...well not in the pertinent areas yea. I truly hope we can do this trip again someday and see more through your eyes. Thank You Cindy, for sharing your words with us :-) (NT) -- Mahri, 16:16:09 10/08/09 Thu
- Derry did it for me, too, Marilyn, along with that memorial at Omagh. Although I did like Belfast very much. I kind of knew that Derry would grab me after having read a number of things about it, but I did not expect to feel what I felt at Omagh. I'd seen the film and had done some reading about it, but that memorial is amazing. (NT) -- E, 17:45:39 10/08/09 Thu
- Honestly, you need a few days in Belfast and to do the night life a bit to truly appreciate it. I always have the best conversations there and feel like I'm in withdrawal for a bit after I leave. I think it's also because Casey, Jamie, Pamela and Pat live and breathe on those streets for me and I know where various events happened as we go around. Clifford (musician friend in Belfast) said that it was really really amazing that Mick took us round the way he did last time, he said that simply isn't something offered to outsiders ever. (NT) -- celtgirl (), 19:12:00 10/08/09 Thu
- If it was NOT for you and your work NONE of us would be here!! It's because of you and your work we needed to find a safe place to discuss your work. Thankfully, Peggy took the reins and started Shamrock & Stones. I can understand why some might think it's an extension of LOL because so many of us started there BUT we came here for a place to discuss your books and all things Irish. I do think it's important that those that participate here at S&S at least know why we are here and our main purpose. Not that it's a prerequisite that they read your books but it would sure be nice if they did and know where we are all coming from. One of my biggest regrets in life is not going to Ireland on the Shammie Shindig and seeing Northern Ireland through your eyes. I do believe you and I will one day have that chance together. I need to go to Ireland and I know by next year you'll be getting the itch to go back. (well, I know you already have the itch but it will be even itchier). (NT) -- Noelle, 17:41:46 10/08/09 Thu
- 'kay, I definitely need in on that trip!! (NT) -- Mahri, 18:34:59 10/08/09 Thu
- I always have the itch for Ireland and especially for Belfast. I don't know about Derry, it's a dangerous place for me, I'd be scared Mickey was still roaming the streets. :) (NT) -- celtgirl, 19:04:58 10/08/09 Thu
- Appears we're headed back (to Doolin, anyway) for October of 2011, after Larry retires. The session guys told Larry that was the best time to get in some serious music sessions without too many tourists around. Not sure if we'll make it up to N. Ireland, although L knows someone up in Co. Antrim who owns a pub and has asked him to visit, so who knows. Anyway, T. J. said he'd cut us a deal if we stayed in his cottage, which is very appealing. Of course, a lot can change between now and then, especially finances! (NT) -- E, 19:39:34 10/08/09 Thu
- PUNT THE LEPRECHAUN to you CINDY!!!! (NT) -- Tracy, 07:56:47 10/09/09 Fri
- Sorry I'm just now over here posting....I guess I can't say I shared NI with you, but I can tell from all that everyone shared with me during Week 2 that they were moved beyond belief by the experience and by what that did to their feeling about your books. You and your books are the reason for S&S and I am thankful that I found all of you. Hopefully I'll get to get in on that next trip to NI so I can see it for myself. *g* (NT) -- Lil, 18:28:03 10/09/09 Fri
- Hunger- I watched this incredible and disturbing movie tonight and just wanted to recommend it, though your stomach needs to be strong. -- celtgirl (), 22:10:37 09/14/09 Mon [10]
It's about the Hunger Strikes that took place in Maze/Long Kesh prison in 1981. This is something I've read a great deal about as it's where I intend to end the EU series. It was a watershed in Northern Irish history. I was stunned to find out the man playing Bobbie Sands in this movie was a German actor named Michael Fassbender- he's amazing, what he did to his body for this role, defies comprehension, his Belfast accent was flawless too.
Last time I was in Belfast and spent the day with Mick he took us to where Bobbie Sands grew up, and our last stop of the day was Bobbie's grave, it was one of those moments carved in my emotional memory forever. It was on the way to Ireland that time that I met Bobbie Sands' cousin in the Chicago airport, synchronicity is an amazing thing.
I don't think I could ever watch this movie again, but I know I'll never forget it. If you want to understand that period in Northern Irish history, I think this film goes a ways to showing what happened, not so much why really, for that you have to delve further back in the history.
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- Thanks for the recommendation - hadn't heard of this film. I will never understand Margaret Thatcher's response to those guys on the blanket. I viewed them as political prisoners and don't understand why she felt the need to be so unwavering to them. In the end, I think she probably only helped increase membership in the IRA! (NT) -- E, 05:24:17 09/15/09 Tue
- Sounds interesting and significant, but I probably don't have the stomach for it. I still lay awake when things disturb me, maybe not nightmares, but something of the like. (NT) -- Denise, 08:17:52 09/15/09 Tue
- I would like to see this - once. We flipped into a movie titled 'Bloody Sunday' the other day, anyone seen this one? I didn't watch the whole thing since we didn't flip in at the beginning. Have no idea who the actors/actresses were or what year it was made, but from the few minutes I saw, I tell ya could barely understand a word that came out the actors mouth. I asked DH if they were speaking a foreign language or something *g* (NT) -- Mahri, 19:28:37 09/15/09 Tue
- I think this film showed at TIFF the year it came out and got tremendous reviews. I didn't see it in theatres, but it's definitely on my list for a time when I'm up for something of the sort. (NT) -- Carla, 19:28:46 09/15/09 Tue
- I do hope you are not intended to have our boyo hunger striking Cindy, that would be too heart breaking for words. (NT) -- Sheial, 00:02:02 10/08/09 Thu
- Chatper 87 "Good Night Moon" -- Carla, 18:09:34 09/12/09 Sat [23]
A waning gibbous moon
September has gone and October come, and still no word from Casey. Now October is drawing to a close, and Pamela is beginning to believe that Casey has simply chosen to never return. She's reading a book in Jamie's study one night, when the bell rings and Jamie says it's for her. She opens the door to find Casey there. He asks her to go for a walk and she agrees. They are awkward and unsure of each other and a painful quiet descends over them as Casey takes Pamela for a car ride. He takes her to a deserted, tumble-down cottage outside Belfast, a place he says is neutral territory.
Casey talks about the relationship between the English and Irish and how neither have ever understood the other. This leads to talk of their own issues and Casey reaches out his hands to her, and Pamela lays hers in his, bridging the gap between them. He asks her, as his da did his mam, "will you grow old with me" and Pamela turns the question back to him. Casey says he will, and that though he's failed to keep the promise of their wedding night in the past, he's making it again and will keep it this time.
Outside the cottage, they look to the stars and Pamela recites the text of "Good Night Moon" as a blessing on the night. They kiss and then go home together.
Do you think Casey has realised by the end of this chapter that Pamela is pregnant?
Why did he wait until the very end of his alloted time to come for Pamela?
Did his admission that he'd made a mistake in walking out help heal the wounds? Would they have been able to have a whole relationship if he'd simply said he forgave Pamela for her transgressions?
Why did Pamela not apologise? She broke her wedding promise as well?
Epilogue
David is at Kirkpatrick's Folly in the daylight for the first time. He goes to the servant's entrance and Maggie lets him in, directing him to the study. There, he finds the room neat and tidy, with a single sheet of paper propped against a full whiskey bottle, a silver ring around the bottle's neck. On the paper, two words "Gone Fishing".
Did this little tidbit surprise you?
Has David really been called home as he told Pat, or is he just going farther undercover?
Is David working for the same group as Jamie?
Why do you think Jamie chose this time to disappear?
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- A big thank you to all who have helped out and participated in this discussion. And a huge thank you to Cindy, the marvelous author who has stolen us away to Northern Ireland these past weeks and allowed us a look into the extraordinary lives of Casey, Pamela, Jamie, Pat, Sylvie and David. Keep writing, woman! (NT) -- Carla, 18:11:22 09/12/09 Sat
- Thanks to everyone who participated, I know summer isn't the best time for a book discussion but the timing couldn't be helped if we wanted to get it in before the Shindig, as to whether Casey knew about the pregnancy, here's the scene that follows the 'Good Night, Moon' scene, though it's not ever going to find its way into a book, I know some of you have seen it before, but to refresh, please follow me inside>>>>> -- celtgirl, 20:58:47 09/12/09 Sat
- Oh, Cindy, such a beautiful scene, it brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for sharing that with us, as it deserves to be read. (NT) -- Carla, 05:55:43 09/13/09 Sun
- I longed for something like this for the two of them. How beautiful. Thank you again for being such a generous friend! (NT) -- E, 07:10:24 09/13/09 Sun
- Lovely scene! What made you decide not to use it in Mermaid? Did you think it was a given that they would connect this way, or something else? (NT) -- Denise, 08:48:05 09/13/09 Sun
- That's beautiful...are you sure you can't find a spot for it in Book 3...maybe in a memory in either Pamela's or Casey's thoughts? It's just too precious to let it slip away. (NT) -- Tess, 09:04:22 09/13/09 Sun
- *Sigh* Gosh I love that man :-) (NT) -- Mahri, 05:58:53 09/14/09 Mon
- I was rather annoyed that Casey waited until the last minute to come to Pamela. I don't know why he waited so long, it's not the sort of thing one procrastinates about, really. As far as the pregnancy, certainly when they came together in the broken down house he must have realized she was pregnant, her breasts were enlarged and there are few men who wouldn't notice that about their wives. (NT) -- Denise, 23:46:10 09/12/09 Sat
- I didn't know what to think of David at first and was terribly suspicious of his good will to Pat. In the end I believe him to be a good guy, probably part of the Brotherhood, trying to bring some peace between England and Ireland. I hadn't thought about David going further undercover, but it sounds very plausible. "Gone fishing" - not sure what is taking Jamie away at this particular time, but we'll be seeing lots of Russia in the next book, and I think not halibut, salmon, tuna, perch...... (NT) -- Denise, 23:51:45 09/12/09 Sat
- How I loved the ending of Mermaid. Cindy had me so tense, waiting for Casey's return. I was getting angry with him! And I also knew that Jamie would have to seek out water for his solace. Beautiful ending, filled with meaning and hope. What a lovely read. I'm just so sorry that I had to miss a fairly large part of it, what with Adam's move and all. Brava, Cindy! Long may your work live and plentiful may it be! (NT) -- E, 07:13:12 09/13/09 Sun
- I have to share this with you all- this is what my daughter wrote me when she got back to her dorm today- she just started reading 'Mermaid' this weekend. She made me get all misty>>> -- celtgirl, 17:03:46 09/13/09 Sun
- Awww. What a lovely thing for her to do Cindy. What a great job you've done raising a young woman who would write something so lovely to her mama. (NT) -- Carla, 18:52:16 09/13/09 Sun
- My, my, if that doesn't sound like something an adult would say. You must be busting your buttons! Smart girl. Long may it continue. (NT) -- E, 21:05:06 09/13/09 Sun
- Oh my, that's making me misty eyed knowing it was written by Devon. What a bright girl she is to recognize the specialness of you and your writing. (NT) -- Denise, 21:55:05 09/13/09 Sun
- Oh my goodness - THAT has got to one of the best compliments, the highest praise you can get girl, from your own daughter. Just beatiful, it makes me shiver with pride and it has nothing to do with me :-) I am going to finish my reread on the plane. Even though these last few chapters have already been summarized and discussed, I need to reread them myself. It'll be the only BIG book I'm taking so the weight shouldn't be too bad *g* (NT) -- Mahri, 05:57:33 09/14/09 Mon
- Sorry to be late with this ladies, I had my 'real life' book club last night and didn't get home until late. -- Carla, 06:39:15 09/11/09 Fri [24]
Chapter 85: Here in the Dark
Pamela is not sleeping at night, listening for Casey to come home. She's cleaned Lawrence's room and then shut the door, unable to go back in again. She also has medical confirmation of her pregnancy.
Just after she's climbs into bed, Pamela hears a noise outside and gets up to see a man walking in the yard -- even though she can only see an outline she knows it's Casey. He comes in a moment later and asks to stay the night. She says yes. When she asks him why, he says Pat told him she'd not been sleeping well and so he's come to lie with her so she can rest. He doesn't want to talk, just pulls her close. She half-wakes in the night to his murmur and a gentle touch. In the morning, he's gone.
Was it cruel of Casey to come for the one night and then leave? Would it be worse to have him back for the one night and then gone, or to have not had even that little bit of him?
Chapter 86: The Tenth Commandment
Casey wakes to the feeling of something crawling over his face and then tweaking his ear. He opens his eyes to find Jamie sitting at his bedside. Jamie is none too pleased with Casey's behaviour -- the drinking and staying away from Pamela -- and shows his feeling by punching him in the face. Jamie lays down a few facts -- either Casey returns to Pamela by the end of October, or he, Jamie, will move her into his home and take her to his bed. In the course of the conversation, we find out just how ruthless Jamie has been to protect and avenge Pamela in the past. We also find out just how badly Casey is doubting himself at present and that he blames himself for Pamela's affair with Love and Lawrence's death. With the admitting of these feelings come tears, and Jamie holds Casey while he crys out his grief, pain and anger.
Two days later, Matty comes to visit him and tells him that he'd lost his own marriage through his devotion to the cause and that to throw away such a love is a terrible thing.
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- It's easy to understand how Pamela had trouble sleeping, and that having him next to her could make all the difference for that one night. Hooray to Jamie for trying to knock some sense into Casey's head. I get why Casey was humiliated and depressed, though. You don't just bounce back after what he's learned. (NT) -- Elaine, 08:36:58 09/11/09 Fri
- I think I fell in love with Jamie even more in this chapter (if that's at all possible!). He pushes his own feelings for Pamela aside (as always) and does what is right for her, which is knock some sense into Casey. Holding Casey while he expresses his grief was so poignant! (NT) -- Denise, 12:05:48 09/11/09 Fri
- I think Casey needed to be with Pamela for the night as much as she needed him. She knew on some level that he wouldn't stay, he wasn't ready to just yet. I've said it before and I'll say it again- I love the chapters/scenes where Jamie and Casey show up together- it's electric for me as the writer. Denise, I was reading something very new to Dorine recently that had a certain golden-haired gentleman in it and she (very gratifyingly) cried and cried and said something very similar to what you said about Jamie's character. (NT) -- celtgirl (), 12:27:22 09/11/09 Fri
- I think I've mentioned it before that I just love the scenes in which Jamie and Casey are together. There is usually one or two emotions that are so prominent between that make the pages come alive - could be the humour or could be the arguements. These two men always seem to be at the peak of whatever emotion the scene calls for. I must admit, I liked that Jamie gave a punch because I desperately wanted Casey to 'wake up' and head on back to Pamela especially with the baby coming. I didn't want him to miss out on that. I know it takes each person his/her own time but I just kept telling Casey "hurry, hurry". Now, that being said, I did wonder 'a lot' what would have happened and what it would have been like if Jamie did go to Pamela and they got together. :) (NT) -- Tracy, 13:06:02 09/11/09 Fri
- I am just bursting now!!! ONLY 6 MORE SLEEPS TILL I GET ON THE PLANE!!!!! (NT) -- Tracy, 13:07:46 09/11/09 Fri
- I haven't reread these chapters yet, must catch up, but I remember feeling so sad for both Pamela and Casey with that one night together. And I've said before how much I like the chapters where C & J are interacting...no matter the circumstances. Crap, better catch up here soon running out of time :-\ (NT) -- Mahri, 13:13:09 09/11/09 Fri
- I think his spending the night with her showed both of them that whether he came back to her for good or not, he still loved her; and I think that in itself was a comfort. If he stayed, they would have to face the question of a future together or not, and he wasn't ready to do that. ***Madame Author....The mess Jamie found him in....Was he like that before that night with Pamela? Or did doing so send him further into despair? I just wondered if he'd been like that the whole time. As for Jamie going to see him to knock some sense into him....I loved it. He's really taken on both of them for quite some time, and set his own feelings aside. He could easily have swooped in & gotten the girl, but no, he's just too honorable. I think it also says something that Casey let himself go like that in front of Jamie. He's been resentful about accepting help from Jamie, and now he's let down his guard completely. Growth! And hopefully more on the relationship between the 2 men in the 3rd book? (NT) -- Tess, 13:16:53 09/11/09 Fri
- 85) I think the one night was equally important for both of them. To let each other know they are still very much loved and needed even though they have separate issues to resolve. 86)I never thought Casey would leave Pamela for good. More like he just needed time to sort things out, but I'm glad Jamie came to give him a good hard push. And I too thoroughly enjoy the scenes with C&J. While neither will say it there's a definite sense of mutual respect and admiration between them and their relationship seems to be growing into dare I say..."brotherly fondness". (NT) -- CindyS, 15:31:02 09/11/09 Fri
- Chapter 83: Brother's Keeper -- Carla, 20:08:19 09/09/09 Wed [5]
Botanic Garden, Belfast
Casey and David meet at night in the Botanic Garden. Casey lets David know he doesn't care for his friendship with Pat and that he holds David responsible for Sylvie's death. Despite this, fearing that Pat may harm himself, he asks for David's help in reaching his brother. David agrees, saying he's being sent home soon and should say good-bye to Pat in any case.
Why would Casey think David could make a difference to Pat? He says it's because Pat respects David's opinion, but doesn't Pat respect Casey as well?
Chapter 84: How Lonely People Make a Life
The Box of Grief
David goes to visit Pat and finds him drunk (or hung over), disheveled and distracted. When Pat blames himself for Sylvie's death, David agrees, saying it was both their faults for behaving as if nothing could touch them.
David deliberately goads Pat by saying Sylvie is also partly to blame, having married into the Riordan family with all its baggage. Pat physically attacks David, who soon gets the upper hand. But when he relaxes, Pat, worn out as he his, still turns the tables. In a fit of rage and hopelessness, Pat kisses David. David, stunned, "held the kiss for a moment" but knowing anything they did would be based on "grief and bottomless pain" he pushes him away.
Pat apologises to David and then begins to shake, laying there on the floor. David tells Pat his only sin was to try and be human in a place and system that doesn't allow for it. Pat asks David to stay with him for a bit. The two sit on the floor in the growing dark. When Pat asks how he's to live now, David tells him "However it is that lonely people make a life."
Why do you think David was the only one who could get through to Pat?
Is it possible to recover from such guilt and pain?
Did Sylvie accept certain risks -- and Pamela as well, for that matter -- when getting involved with the Riordan family?
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- I think David knows lonely all too well, and can understand Pat for that, but this visit allows for some bit of healing between them. I hope there is recovery from the guilt and pain, people do it every day in their lives, so I can only wish for peace for these two men. And as for marrying into the Riordan family - yes, I think it was very much a risk to give one's heart to a Riordan. I don't think the women in question really had a lot of choice since the attraction was inespcapable, but yes, a simple, happy life wasn't really a realistic expectation - considering the time and place, and the family heritage. (NT) -- Denise, 21:05:50 09/09/09 Wed
- I think eventually one recovers from such pain and guilt, but one is not the same person ever again- you carry the scars of it forever, and you change as a person and can't regain who you were before entirely. (NT) -- celtgirl, 07:08:32 09/10/09 Thu
- I thought that David could say things to Pat that his family couldn't. I knew David wouldn't sugar-coat anything and not that Casey wouldn't but David could say it 'because' he wasn't a brother. That really isn't clear but maybe I can't seem to get my thoughts out eloquently. I must admit I was shocked when Pat kissed David and had to re-read the scene a couple of times to make sure I had read it correctly. I thought it was a beautifully written scene wit raw and real emotions and a big POW ! One might be able to recover and to forgive but never forget. Events happen and are on different scales of impact or importance but they still change a person. Something like Sylvie's death is a marker of sorts or a defining moment and therefore unforgettable. I do think Sylvie and Pamela accepted certain risks and often love doesn't let people walk away easily. They would rather be in their husband's worlds then be without them in theirs. Sheesh, I must be chanelling Gladys Knight now! :) (NT) -- Tracy, 16:17:03 09/10/09 Thu
- I'm going with Tracy on this one in that a non-family member can more often cut to the quick with an issue. There's no fear of reprisal over Sunday dinner if you don't like what the person said. I think there's a bond b/w them that occured at internment that even Casey knows, from experience, he can't breech. Part of you will always remember pain and guilt, especially over a devestating loss. And while you do move on with your life you definitely are effected in a deep way that I'm sure impacts a lot of your future choices. As for Pamela & Sylvie - I think they'll both agree it's better to "have loved and lost then to not love at all." (NT) -- CindyS, 22:26:46 09/10/09 Thu
- Chatper 81 "In Sunlight or in Shadow" -- Carla, 21:10:47 09/08/09 Tue [6]
Pamela and Jamie are there for Pat at Sylvie's funeral, although Pat has withdrawn into himself and is hanging on to his sanity by his fingernails. David also came to the funeral. Casey appears suddenly, his very presence pulling on Pamela, although he wore no hint of softness at seeing her.
Casey and Pamela talk, and he admits he's not ready to come home. She offers him the key to the house and says she'll move out if he needs a place to stay. The tears she held back at the graveside come now and she reaches out to touch Casey's cheek. He moves her hand away. She tells him to go be with his brother. The two men embrace and Pamela has to look away.
Chapter 82: "Requiem"
Casey has been staying with Pat, trying to help him. In the course of an emotional conversation it comes out that Casey has "taken care" of the men who killed Sylvie. In the exchange that follows Casey says he was cleaning up the mess Pat made in the first place. Pat blames himself for Sylvie's death. Casey appears as hard and cold-blooded in his responses to Pat, who admits to being frightened by Casey.
Casey offers money to Pat to leave Ireland, saying they're "on the outside" now after the killing of the IRA men. Pat reveals the plane tickets to California Jamie had given he and Sylvie as a wedding gift. Pat says he can't leave right now, he needs to be where Sylvie was. Pat asks about Robin and Casey says he's dead, with none left to mourn or bury him.
We know who and what Casey is, what he's capable of, and yet I cannot help but feel a slight shock when this side of him is so baldly revealed. Do you feel the same? Why or why not?
Is Pat right to stay in Belfast? Would he be better off getting away from the scenes of all his memories?
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- Yup, Casey's matter of fact manner regarding the killing of individuals was a bit of a shock. I had noticed a harder edge to Jamie in the previous chapter too, even though I know he's totally capable of 'taking care of things', it seemed more apparent somehow, that he can be a real cold-blooded bastard. Poor Pat, I really feel for him. I think leaving the country and starting anew would be best for him, but he feels otherwise and won't be swayed. Logic says start again, but the heart is still holding tight to the places and things that bring him closer to Sylvie. (NT) -- Denise, 07:33:03 09/09/09 Wed
- I guess it never really surprises me, because even in his most tender moments, I am always aware of this side to Casey and to Jamie as well- Jamie even moreso, especially since his sojourn in Russia- this book (Angels) has given me a different view and relationship with Jamie, because he's revealed so much more of himself, both good and bad. (NT) -- celtgirl (), 08:23:01 09/09/09 Wed
- Not shocked at this side of Casey as we've seen this before but it does reawaken you to the fact that these are hard men living in hard times and not matter the love and caring they express/share you best not mess with them or theirs. I would like to see Pat come to California - I'm sure there would be ways to mend his broken heart *G*. All joking aside, it's been a dream of his since we first met him in EU and I think the time has come for him to put the past behind and start anew. (NT) -- CindyS, 15:17:46 09/09/09 Wed
- Chapter 80: The Butcher's Bill -- Carla, 18:03:53 09/07/09 Mon [5]
Pat and Sylvie are getting ready for the regular Sunday dinner at Jamie’s house. Pat is distracted but thoughts unpleasant and pleasant. Pat goes back to find his wallet, and in a loving exchange, we learn that he and Sylvie are married and planned to tell Jamie that day. When the phone rings, Pat answers to hear a panicked voice claiming to be Tom, telling him the Centre was on fire. When he realizes the call a hoax designed to get him in the car, Pat runs, knowing all along it’s too late, to warn Sylvie not to start the engine. He gets outside in time to see her smile at him and turn the key in the ignition. The resulting explosion is devastating and Pat has to be held back from the flaming wreckage by neighbours.
Pamela is sitting alone in the nursery she’s just painted and is reflecting on what she’d like Casey to do for the room, but cuts the thought off as she’s not sure he’ll ever return. She dozes off and wakes to the sound of Jamie’s car in the drive. He tells her of Sylvie’s death and Pat’s injury. Jamie is looking for Casey and Pamela has to admit he left her over a week earlier and she has no idea where he is or how to find him. They go to visit him in the hospital and Pat has a message for Jamie.
In the hospital waiting room, Jamie tells Pamela he knows she pregnant and promises her she won’t be alone with the child, even should Casey fail to return to her. We also learn that Belinda has left Jamie, not satisfied with having half a man. Jamie already knew of Sylvie and Pat’s marriage and tells Pamela. David shows up at the hospital, clearly worried about Pat. He declines to see Pat. It comes out that Robin is dead by his own hand and Jamie comments that Casey may well regret not doing it himself, freaking Pamela out more than a little.
Later, Pamela expresses regret they came back to Belfast and Jamie regrets it as well, although he feels partly responsible, as he made sure she married a man who could never be happy away from Belfast. When Pamela asks Jamie about ghosts, he says “We take them with us.”
Sylvie’s death hit me hardest of all the deaths in “Mermaid,” perhaps because it came as the biggest shock. It seems as if tragedy and heartbreak are piling up for the Riordans and Kirkpatricks. Do you believe bad things come in groups? That negative events/emotions/thoughts attract more negative things to your life? Or is it just the way the cookie crumbles and there’s no logic or reason behind it?
What do you think Pat whispered in Jamie’s ear in the hospital?
Why do you think David refused to go and see Pat? When he said “No, I’ll wait until . . . until. I’ll just wait.” What do you think he’s waiting for?
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- Miss Cindy, I wasn't very happy with you in this chapter either! First Lawrence, then Sylvie - that's rough to say the least on a reader! How did you come to the conclusion that these two characters had to go? Was it necessary to the plot, or did some little demon in your head say they 'had to die'? :-) As for the questions, I'm really not supersticious, so I don't believe in the occurrence of threes. Shit happens! And David, I don't think he knew what to do with himself. His interactions with Pat have always been strained, and now there is a factor of guilt to complicate any kind of relationship. It's not an enviable position. (NT) -- Denise, 06:36:58 09/08/09 Tue
- David refused to go in because he feels responsible for what happened to Sylvie, and in a sense he is partly to blame. (NT) -- celtgirl, 13:03:27 09/08/09 Tue
- Yes this was a shocking chapter...ugh...my heart was breaking for Pat. I don't know what it is about bad things happening in groups but it sure seems to fall that way alot. Interesting thought though about negative emotions/thoughts attracting more negative situations. I'm curious what Pat whispered to Jamie too and I thought the reason David didn't go in to see Pat just then was that he thought it might not be a good time, considering Pat knows how David feels about him and Pat just lost his wife. I figured he felt uncomfortble or Pat might not welcome his company. Didn't even cross my mind that David felt guilt over it. (NT) -- Mahri, 16:26:02 09/08/09 Tue
- Chap. 78 Englishman & Chap. 79 Blood Brothers -- Carla, 15:48:14 09/06/09 Sun [12]
Chap. 78 Englishman
A road sign in South Armagh
Pat gets a phone call in the middle of the night from the English barracks telling him David had gone off on his own to a pub in South Armagh known for being a Republican stronghold and hasn't returned. Knowing David is either in serious trouble or dead, Pat sets off to see if he can rescue him. With guidance from the blind FIL of the pub's owner, he gets an idea of where David might be. When he arrives, he finds David in the classic IRA execution pose. Without thinking further, he kills the three men holding David. He takes the badly injured David to hospital and slips away in the chaos.
Pat goes to Jamie to have the bullet removed from his own arm and to ask for advice. Jamie tells him one of the men he shot was able to leave the scene. He comments they'll have to do something about the two witnesses, as well. Pat flounders around wondering what to do, and Jamie tells him to turn himself in means certain death and it's not as if the British care if two IRA men were murdered. Pat tries to come to grips with the fact he's killed two men.
Why the hell would David, no innocent about the situation in NI, place himself is such a dangerous position?
If you'd been Pat, would you have gone after David, knowing it could mean your death?
Were you surprised by Jamie's pronouncement that he has "two men in every county"?
Could you have done what Pat did, and kill to save a friend?
Chap. 79 Blood Brothers
An abandoned fish plant.
Casey receives something which leads him to believe he knows who killed Lawrence. He goes to an abandoned fish plant and finds Robin there. Robin admits to killing Lawrence, but says the boy was so badly damaged physically when he found him it was a mercy. It seems Lawrence had found out Robin was working both sides -- IRA and British. The men battle until both are grievously wounded. Robin asks Casey to kill him, but Casey finds he can't. Before he kills himself Robin tells Casey about Pamela and Love.
At home, Pamela finds the picture Robin sent to Casey and figures the men are having a show-down of some sort. Beside herself with worry, she finally manages to doze off only to awake to an injured Casey asking her if it's true she and Love had an affair. She tells him yes and why. They have an emotionally fraught and tense exchange, which ends with Casey leaving. He places a kiss on Pamela's head before he does.
Do you agree with Robin, that sometimes people are so damaged they are better off dead? Why did Robin wait so long to end his own life if this is how he feels?
Why do you think Casey couldn't kill Robin in the end?
Pamela says that during the affair with Love, she hated Casey for putting her in a position where she had to do such a thing. Is she just shirking responsibility for her actions or do you agree Casey played a role in what happened between Pamela and Love? What could/should he have done differently?
Why, after all their harsh words and Casey's admission he wasn't sure if he was coming back, do you think he kissed Pamela so gently before leaving?
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- This particular episode with David is based on the true story of Robert Nairac, who went undercover in IRA pubs all the time, but one night he let his guard down a little too much- not something anyone should do in South Armagh and to this day they haven't found his body. Apparently it was an extremely gruesome death. (NT) -- celtgirl, 18:40:19 09/06/09 Sun
- I've never had to show any kind of true courage, and probably would fail miserably if I needed to salvage a situation. What Pat did was a totally honorable thing, expected from Cindy's characters, but not typical of mankind, I think. I don't think he could have lived with himself, though, if he had not risked his own life to see to the welfare of one who had taken risky measures himself to keep our Pat alive. (NT) -- Denise, 20:10:23 09/06/09 Sun
- I don't know if there are some people irrevocably damaged, I'd hate to consider that to be the case. Robin obviously feels beyond hope though, and has for a long time, so it is surprising that he has not somehow taken an opportunity to catch a bullit in the chest. Perhaps he felt there was some unfinished business in his life that needed tending before he left our world, or some latent Catholic upbringing stopped him from committing suicide. A Catholic upbringing certainly didn't stop him from being a cold blooded killer though! (NT) -- Denise, 20:15:15 09/06/09 Sun
- Casey kissed her before he left, because he loves her, despite everything he's very much aware how much he loves her- and he's not certain when he'll see her again, or even if in his current mental state. (NT) -- celtgirl, 08:49:35 09/07/09 Mon
- Sad to say, but yes, I do believe that some people live lives of utter despair and inner hostility, >>> -- Elaine, 11:40:59 09/07/09 Mon
- Carla, you have also been doing a wonderful job in finding perfect photos for your chapters. They help me visualize the scenes. (NT) -- Elaine, 13:54:20 09/07/09 Mon
- Chapter 76 - The Stardust Sea & Chapter 77: The Lost Boy -- CindyS, 14:09:51 09/05/09 Sat [13]
And so we come to the end of an emotional week - well for me it was. I've been struggling with this last chapter for most of today simply because I don't think I was ready to say goodbye to Lawrence. And I leave with two photos of Vega as I found it fitting for both chapters.
Chapter 76 - The Stardust Sea
Pamela contemplates the current seasonal changes - summer to fall to winter. She watches and listens to Casey give Lawrence an astronomy lesson that speaks of more than just stars. Lawrence tells Casey “I wonder how I can matter at all when the universe is so big.” Casey tells him that we are a small part living within a larger and therefore will always be alive in some way “an’ yet maybe the things that happen to us day by day need not be so big nor matter to us quite so much.” With Lawrence asleep Casey calls Pamela over to watch a luminescent owl cross in flight. He notes that to give such light and beauty as it dies is a gift.
- Is there comfort in the constant cycle of seasonal changes? What do these changes mean to you?
- Ever felt like Lawrence does? When, why?
- Does Casey’s explanation have a more significant meaning to Lawrence? To Pamela & himself?
- Is there significance in the figure of the owl and what Casey says?
Chapter 77: The Lost Boy
Pamela awakes from a horrible nightmare. While the character has no face she immediately asks about Lawrence. She insists on coming with Casey to look for him. They go directly to a hotel that Jones apparently takes boys to. They discover a very grim scene and a lifeless Lawrence. Casey covers the boy and declares “I have failed him. I have put him here.” Pamela crawls onto the bed and cuddles the lifeless boy and claims “I’ll not have him alone right now.” Casey goes for the police while Pamela looks upon Lawrence’s life with them – shelter, trust, love and how for some abandoned children maybe life’s cruelties are insurmountable. Comparing Lawrence to one of Peter Pan’s Lost Boys she tells him all is right now and nothing can stop him “Just remember…it’s the second star from the right and straight on to morning.”
- Was Pamela having Lawrence’s dream of the faceless man or something else?
- Were you surprised that Casey knew right where to look for Lawrence?
- Could you have stayed so calm in discovering Lawrence?
- Do you think Casey played a role in Lawrence’s death? Pamela? Jamie?
- Is Pamela’s desire to be close to Lawrence at this moment for him, for her?
- Do you agree with Pamela’s assessment that some “lost children” can never find peace?
- I love the closing line of this chapter. There’s a sense of closure for Lawrence laced with peace and hope that I find fitting. What is your feeling about the ending and Pamela’s last words?
- Any final feelings about Lawrence that you'd like to share?
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- God rest Lawrence's soul. What an ugly cry this is and heartbreaking. I was devastated to see Lawrence go and just wanted everything to be ok for him and to have a happy and long life with Casey and Pamela. I'm a bit of a mess this week so apologize that I can't string more thoughts than this together tonight. (NT) -- Tracy, 20:21:23 09/05/09 Sat
- I was so glad in retrospect that Casey and Lawrence had such a special moment together. I do think there was a message to Pamela in there, as well, that whatever her secret and the actions that lead to it, in the long-run it's not as important as their love and lives together. I think everybody who thinks beyond the day-to-day feels unimportant and insignificant in the grand scheme of things as some point. I certainly feel that way at home and in my work from time to time. After reading the next chapter, I saw the owl as a foreshadowing of Lawrence's impact on Pamela and Casey, a brief flare of joy and love that didn't last long. (NT) -- Carla, 05:49:17 09/06/09 Sun
- As usual, I've gone too long. >>> -- Carla, 05:55:45 09/06/09 Sun
- I was afraid the owl was a foreshadowing of death after Caseys telling of the folklore behind it - just didn't know whose and didn't even consider Lawrence and the other one coming up :-( (NT) -- Mahri, 07:58:40 09/06/09 Sun
- I was blown away at the loss of Lawrence. It had very personal meaning for me, as a former foster parent. Cindy, forgive me, but I was angry with you for a brief time! (NT) -- Elaine, 19:43:48 09/06/09 Sun
- Chapter 74 - God and Green Apples & Chapter 75 - On the Craic -- CindyS, 14:03:43 09/04/09 Fri [11]
Chapter 74 - God and Green Apples
Lawrence goes to visit Pamela and collect a few things. She apologizes for his being caught amidst their problems. Lawrence mentions that Casey’s having a hard time without her and when she goes to explain he diplomatically states “If I do know, though, I’ll have to start takin’ sides an’ I’m not going to do that.” He mentions Casey & Robin playing some pubs and gives her the locations and dates and asks her to think about it. Then Pamela reveals the real reason the house locks were changed – someone’s been in the house.
Lawrence returns to the Center and tells Casey he went to check on Pamela since he’s “too stubborn”. Casey makes comments about the items she’s sent with Lawrence while Lawrence simply states that he thinks it’s her “way of sayin’ she missed ye.” Pamela has included Brian’s rosary beads which cause Casey to choke up as he realizes she knows him too well. He then finally asks about her well being. With Lawrence out for the night Casey reassesses his relationship with Pamela their argument; the harsh words exchanged and his bringing up Jamie. He admits he’s jealous of their relationship. We discover that the bottled up anger from internment and Bloody Sunday has lead to his assisting the IRA in forming safe houses for the rebels. The British seem to have figured out the IRA’s last plan which leads Casey to think there is a mole with in the Belfast IRA ranks.
- Do children often see things we don’t think they do? Can we see ourselves & situations a bit clearer if we step back and try to see things through their eyes? Are they wiser than we give them credit for?
- Whose trust was Pamela referring to when she started to tell Lawrence?
- Who do you think is spying on Pamela? Do you think it’s only at home?
- Are there family articles or heirlooms that mean a great deal to you? Do you find peace in having them around you?
- Is there a positive way to deal with deep seeded jealousy?
- Casey’s consulting for the IRA seems to be deepening. With the split from Pamela is he more likely to get back in the thick of things or can he still keep the distance he claims to want/need for his families sake? Is it really just anger from internment and Bloody Sunday that’s prompting his involvement?
- Who do you think the mole is?
Chapter 75 - On the Craic
Pamela goes to see Casey play at the pub. Although she tries to stay hidden she knows he senses her presence. Robin & Casey are mesmerizing. Robin asks if Casey has a song for his wife. Casey makes eye contact with Pamela and begins to sing. As he approaches “she could feel, as a physical entity, the pull of his need through the heat and smoke that wavered between them.” She begins to cry and as she meets his eyes she shakes her head and then leaves. Casey finishes the song and then follows her outside. After some banter Casey takes her hand and pulls her to the tall grass beyond the parking lot of the pub – “I need you now, Jewel…I don’t think I can be slow about it.” They make love. Afterwards Pamela confesses, “I think I can stay mad at you, stay strong and then I see you, touch you, and I’m lost.” Casey asks Pamela to marry him. She tells him not to frighten her again and he says that he can’t make that promise but he never intended to hurt her. They try to mend the pain by speaking of Boston, the decision to return and what it meant to both of them. Pamela finally gives her marriage reply and Casey jokes, “I didn’t mean for it to be so much of the worse” to which Pamela replies “I wouldn’t change it – anything - not if it meant something less- between the two of us.” Finally, Pamela asks about the fight and the secret that Casey thinks she’s keeping. He simply asks if she loves him and then says that they’ll manage until she’s able to tell him.
-Why do you think Pamela ran away?
-Can you lose yourself in another?
-Does it really matter who proposes? Why does it seem so important to Casey that he do it at this moment?
-Is it possible to live in a tormented country, be a part of the freedom process and not hurt the ones you love?
-Are relationships built stronger from the “worse” the “better” or a combination of the two?
-Is anything really settled between Casey & Pamela?
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- On the is it possible to live in a tormented country and not hurt those you love? I don't know- not if you're involved in any way, shape or form with the process of trying to change things- huge political change so often goes hand in hand with violence. I think sometimes about Gerry Adam's wife, and wonder how she's managed her stress and worry over the man all these years, Colette must be an incredibly strong woman is all I can say. I don't think I could do it myself, the worry would eat me up. (NT) -- celtgirl, 16:24:27 09/04/09 Fri
- I think all good long- lasting relationships are built on a foundation of both good and bad times, weathering the bad makes you realize how much you depend on one another- if you can that is, I know this isn't a given in all relationships. But you have to have joy with one another, fun times, etc otherwise the rough stuff would destroy you eventually. (NT) -- celtgirl, 16:26:38 09/04/09 Fri
- When I write some scenes with Casey and Pamela, I really 'feel' the scene through her experience, and in this one I remember feeling that she just felt so entirely vulnerable in a number of ways the minute she saw him, that she had to just get out of there, because the emotion of it was overwhelming, not to mention the physical reaction to him. :) Hope you all don't mind me hogging up the Cottage space this afternoon, I just haven't written much over the summer and I miss these people, so it was nice to think about them a little today. (NT) -- celtgirl (), 16:39:57 09/04/09 Fri
- I think children can be very astute little beings, and perceive situations very clearly, maybe with less emotional baggage than we bring into the picture. My own boys seem to be able to 'cut to the chase' quite easily and make unbiased observations about things. (NT) -- Denise, 17:13:39 09/04/09 Fri
- Pamela can't help the primal pull Casey has on her. It's overwhelming, frightening in its intensity and probably annoying too since she feels out of control. I fully understand her urge to run away from Casey. Did the sex in the field solve anything? No, I don't think so. The strength of their physical relationship was never in question, but trust issues are still very much unresolved. (NT) -- Denise, 17:17:41 09/04/09 Fri
- Don't have the brain power to be completely thorough, but here are some random thoughts. >>> -- Carla, 20:05:53 09/04/09 Fri
- Chapter 72 - Hard Man & Chapter 73 - Misses Robinson -- CindyS (), 12:48:37 09/03/09 Thu [8]
Sorry to post so late. DS2's having a tough time with the new schedule and today just ended up being a bit hectic. Carry on...
Chapter 72 - Hard Man
Casey comes home battered and bruised from an altercation with a co-worker regarding Pamela. Apparently the Armagh IRA is not happy with her and her job with the RUC. Casey claims he’s worried he can’t protect her from them. She claims she can take care of herself and has a job to do. A very heated argument between them ensues including the topics of naiveté, trust, independence, Boston, Jamie and inevitably – secrets. Casey leaves.
- Was Casey & Pamela’s argument inevitable?
- Is it based more in resentment towards each other for having a life and connections outside of their relationship, fear for each other’s safety, realization that the other is not entirely what or who they dreamed, or something else?
- Is it Pamela’s lack of understanding the “rules” of Belfast & Ireland that are her biggest downfall?
- Did either person speak or act out of character? Why / how?
- Once hurtful words are spoken can you ever take them back or truly forgive the person who spoke them?
- Should Pamela have come clean & told Casey about Hagerty? Is she really keeping him “safe” by not telling him?
- Do you think he already suspects infidelity that’s why he mentions Jamie?
Chapter 73 - Misses Robinson
Casey & Robin are trying to pull a con on two spinsters to buy their home for the IRA. While Robin tries to “convince” Miss Georgina upstairs, Casey is left to entertain Ms Edwina (gotta love the names). The Misses’ brother comes home and the boys take off like lighting, but first Casey gives Ms E a memorable farewell kiss. Robin tells Casey to go home and apologize to Pamela. Casey tells him there's more to it and confides the he feels something much deeper is wrong. Robin tells him it's a rare thing between the two of them and life isn't a fairytale. He suggests they hit the road for a bit playing and singing.
- Does Casey’s position as an IRA consultant lessen his involvement or the danger that may come to him?
- Does Pamela have a right to know what he’s up to?
- Ok – so I have to ask – do you think Robin would have really “done it” with Ms G?
- Are some people born with natural charm and sex appeal or can it be cultivated?
- Is an apology all it would really take to mend the harsh words between Casey & Pamela?
- Why do you think Casey senses Pamela's secret this time where he hasn't before?
- Does Robin's admittance to never having known real love make him a more hopeful or more pitiful character?
Last edited by author: Thu September 03, 2009 15:40:18
Edited 1 time.
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- Ch. 73- Can I just weigh in and say that Casey was born with the natural charm and sex appeal, he can't help himself, it just happens, whether he intends it should or not. :) Just have to add that I've been sitting here sewing and watching 'Ballykissangel' all afternoon, because it's cold and wet outside and I am getting so dang excited about the trip!!! Two weeks from today, WOOHOO!!! (NT) -- celtgirl (), 14:46:08 09/03/09 Thu
- Chap. 72: Yes, I think their argument was inevitable, there are tensions in their relationship and it's going to come out somehow; I think their issues in this particular case are based on fear for each others safety and just that neither of them has been truly 100% open with the other for some time now. Ignorance of the rules can be a great strength and weakness; and knowing the rules and playing within them doesn't always keep you safe and alive in a place like Belfast was then. I think you can forgive hurtful words and move past them, depending on just how hurtful and how personal they were, and how many times they're uttered. I think Jamie will always be a sore point for Casey -- he knows how much Pamela cares for him and that they have a connection, he also feels beholden to Jamie for getting him out of some tight spots, which doesn't help. (NT) -- Carla, 18:07:52 09/03/09 Thu
- I rambled on Chapter 73, so my thoughts are inside. -- Carla, 18:15:13 09/03/09 Thu
- 1. Yes, I think it the arguement was inevitable. I thought of it as a simmering pot and then wham! it boiled over and it had to if they were ever going to have some peace between them. I think working and having a job is important to Pamela as a woman. She knows that her photography is important and is necessary - it was for Casey when he got arrested, so to not be allowed to do it because it is dangerous is likely not a good enough reason to quit. Where would we be without photographs of historic events and personal events? Thank goodness photographers (among others) didn't quit. I think that once words are spoken that they cannot be taken back - the other person heard them and that's it. I do think they can be forgiven but that will take each person his/her own time in order to do so if they want to forgive>>>>>>>>> -- Tracy, 18:50:30 09/03/09 Thu
- Chapter 70 – Cara & Chapter 71 - Just Another Day in Paradise -- CindyS, 12:11:46 09/02/09 Wed [22]
Chapter 70 – Cara
There’s an attempt on Pat’s life and David arrives in time to save the day. We learn of the Black Roses and that David is much more than he seems. David tells Pat that his visit to Girdwood was not in an ‘official capacity’ and should the occasion or need arise he can pull rank…”So I offered to conduct the interrogation.”
- Was the peace process in Ireland prolonged because so many “splinter” groups took to their own agenda?
- Who or what do you think David is? Did your opinion of him change after his James Bond maneuvers?
- Based on his statement to Pat why do you think he was really at Girdwood?
Chapter 71 - Just Another Day in Paradise
Bloody Friday. Pamela is called in to photograph the devastation. We meet Gerard, a very thorough police investigator, with both Irish and English roots has come to Belfast by way of New York. The result of the days events lead the British to deploy more forces.
- Gerard appears to be a neutral, at least politically speaking. Why do you think he is really in Belfast?
- Could you do Pamela & Gerard’s job and look at such devastation with an objective eye? Is objectivity truly possible in this scenario?
- Knowing what you know now about the oppression of the Irish, the longing for freedom and the horrific acts of Bloody Sunday can/should Bloody Friday be labeled as a terrorist act? Do the ends justify the means? Are we more tolerant of these acts when we can put personalize them?
Because this was a turning point in the fight for freedom I also thought it appropriate to include a time table of what happened that day and a letter of apology from the IRA which was issued years later. Those are in the first reply.
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- Time Table(s) of Bloody Friday (both British & Irish as there are discrepancies)>>> -- CindyS (), 12:12:56 09/02/09 Wed
- IRA apology letter>>> -- CindyS, 12:13:38 09/02/09 Wed
- Once again, I feel so badly that I'm not able to keep up with the discussion as I would have liked, but CindyS, you are doing a fantastic job in your summaries. Thank you! (NT) -- Elaine, 12:30:09 09/02/09 Wed
- That's a good question Cindy - if all the splinter groups delayed or made the peace process more difficult. I figured David was part of some 'spy' type unit - the James Bond reference by Pat cracked me up. I have to say too that I've changed my mind about who it was that took Pamela to the hospital after her meeting with Bright ;-) I don't know if it was David or not but something clicked this time and that's who I think it was now. Though why would his voice be familiar to her...has she met him? Knowing (or I should say actually remembering) the epilogue, I have my guesses on David and why he really helped Pat but on my first read I really had no idea, except maybe if David really was/is 'spy material' Pat's name alone would've been something to get to know and/or get close to yea. (NT) -- Mahri, 17:18:27 09/02/09 Wed
- Chapter 70: I have to say I was a little flabbergasted by David's abilities. I never pictured him as the James Bond type. He just always seemed very young and naive to me. Obviously not. "Splinter groups" have always been the downfall of Celtic nations; if the various clans, factions, chiefs, etc. could have stopped fighting (and betraying) each other, the English might never have taken Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Everybody was too full of themselves and too stuck on their own agenda to reach an agreement, IMHO. I think David was there to infiltrate the IRA, or at the very least build up a network of men within the IRA who would feed him info or from whom he could glean info without their knowing. (NT) -- Carla, 20:18:00 09/02/09 Wed
- Chapter 71: I'm not sure what would pull somebody like Gerard to Belfast, perhaps a desire to help? Why do so many people leave their homes and countries to work in war zones and disaster areas? I think in order to do what Pamela and Gerard had to do that day you have to distance yourself, at least while you're there. You save the breakdown or emotional outburst for when you're safely at home and removed from the scene. While I sympathize with why the IRA was formed and the need to fight against oppression, nothing justifies killing innocent people. The British Army in NI were as much terrorists as the IRA, one group was just backed by a powerful government. If they IRA had NOT bombed civilian areas, in both England and NI, I think they would have maintained a lot more support at home and around the world. I understand in some measure the frustrations that caused them to go this route -- at least in England -- but can't condone it. (NT) -- Carla, 20:23:45 09/02/09 Wed
- You've summarized my feelings as well, Carla. (NT) -- Elaine, 06:03:36 09/03/09 Thu
I agree with what you've said Carla. I think I'm a pacifist at heart ("can't we all just get along"). OTOH, extremists exist, and perhaps they do have their place, unfortunately. Let me explain my perspective. I've been an environmentalist all my life, But I've never been "radical" about it. I could never see myself taking actions like Greenpeace, Earth First, etc. BUT they do bring the issues to the attention of the masses. Coming back to NI, if it weren't for the actions of the IRA, do you think the world at large would know, or care, about the Irish Troubles? I think people like me, who tend to hang on the sidelines, need something dramatic to catch our attention. Just something I've been thinking about, and curious to hear what you ladies think about this. (NT) -- PeggyB, 07:31:12 09/03/09 Thu
- One thing I found interesting in looking for the timeline was that the Irish version has a prologue that discusses the peace talks that were underway. Apparently it was the breakdown in these discussions that lead to the events of Bloody Friday. It was to literally stop a society from going about it's daily business. Now whether that was for people to take time to reflect on the negotiations or to point out to the British that they weren't needed as the Irish could still move forward with out them is not clear. Either way, according to this article, it was NOT noted as being retaliation for Bloody Sunday. Found that a bit interesting. Article inside>>> -- CindyS, 13:03:07 09/03/09 Thu
- Chapter 68 – Childhood Ghosts & Chapter 69 – What Remains -- CindyS, 10:02:02 09/01/09 Tue [8]
68 – Childhood Ghosts
Pamela & Pat investigate the address Bright gave her. They uncover disturbing photos of naked young boys, paraphernalia and a hidden stone chamber. The chamber consists of cubicles that contain “long flat iron lockboxes” with name plates on each. The boxes contain human bones, apparently of children. Pamela feels sick & leaves the chamber. Pat emerges with a white box and claims that he thinks he knows “what happened to Robin’s sister.”
Pamela discovers Lawrence’s scars. He confides in her about Morris Jones. She promises not to tell Casey, but not Jamie, as long as he promises to avoid Jones. He asks her to lie with him if it’s not inappropriate further confiding “I’ve never had anyone lie with me to sleep, or for comfort, it’s always been for sex.” Pamela carefully cuddles next to the boy and asks him to share his dreams. He mentions the faceless man and how he knows if he ever sees his face something bad will happen. As he finally dozes off he says “I dream that I am not alone.”
-How would you react to uncovering the truth of the charnel house?
-Do you think Pamela & Pat made the right choice in bringing back wee Jo for Robin to choose what to do with her or should the box have remained with the others for the police to further investigate?
-The bits of comedy infused in this chapter give the reader some breathing room between the suspense and heartache. Is that what gets us through the trying and emotional times?
-Could you have made the promise to Lawrence that Pamela did? Is she really doing all she can for him considering what he just revealed?
-Don’t we all dream of not being alone to some extent?
Chapter 69 – What Remains
Casey & Pamela are awaiting Robin’s arrival. Pamela recalls showing Casey wee Jo. He is undone with emotion. She confides in him all that transpired the night before. Casey tells her “No more” and she replies “I’m done.” Robin arrives and knows something’s up by Casey’s expression. They reveal the box of bones. Robin then confides that he knew how she died. We hear about a lovely young girl with a passion for ballet that was abused by horrible parents.
-Is Pamela truly finished with her venture into Brian’s death or this a simple statement of her emotional being at the time?
-“Because when I’m dancin’, Robin, I know God loves me, the rest of the time I’m not so sure.” Do you think Jo is alone in this thought? Are there times when we feel God’s or anyone else’s love more than others simple b/c we’re doing something we’re passionate about?
-Were you shocked by Robin’s revelation that he knew how Jo died? What about his last comment “I’ve always felt guilty that I’d had such a good time those two weeks, an’ yet it was really the last time that I felt a joy that was unclouded”. Do you think knowing you were off having a good time while others suffered is a reason for guilt or is it knowing that we could have made different choices and thus maybe changed the outcome that is the real guilt culprit? At what point do you let it go? Forgive yourself?
-Any other comments on this emotional chapter?
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- 68) A charnel house eh? I didn't know there was a name for such things. Very creepy and sad, I think yes, I would've brought Jo's bones out too. I wonder, is it explained later how her bones end up here anyway? And is this something the BOR would've been involved in (and therefore why Bright directed Pamela here) - in other words, men from all walks of life and different religious persuisaions working together against such things? Very glad Pamela decided to take someone with her this time and I was surprised that Robin knew how Jo had died and never said anything to Casey about it. (NT) -- Mahri, 11:25:02 09/01/09 Tue
- Two difficult chapters (and BTW, you're doing a bang-up job). I can't imagine walking into a room filled with the remains of all those children, so carefully packed away in labelled boxes. Evidence of a sick mind to do that! Yes, I think it was right to give Robin the box of his sister's remains. It would be nice if he could forgive himself for not being there for her, but some things eat away at us to the point that it would be like severing a limb to let it go. I start to feel sorry for Robin but then remind myself of how we were introduced to him in a much earlier chapter and rethink the whole situation. (NT) -- Denise, 16:51:39 09/01/09 Tue
- I think shock is the first reaction I would have to finding such horror, it seems to me it would be more than the mind could truly take in without time and space. I do think they made the right choice in bringing wee Jo home to Robin; with so many other children's remains to use in creating a case against the murderers one more or less wouldn't make a difference. Humour, black and otherwise, can save one's sanity in the worst of situations, I think this is why it's so popular/common amongst medical and emergency professionals. I think Pamela is doing her best for Lawrence, especially given their place and time; telling Jamie something is no small thing and is bound to get results. (NT) -- Carla, 19:03:00 09/01/09 Tue
- I think Pamela is done at this point, the sheer horror of what she's found and the unspoken power and connections it must take to hide something of this nature for so long I think have finally brought her to her senses. I think we love ourselves more when we're doing something we're passionate about, and so make ourselves more lovable to others and attract positive energy by whatever name. I think Robin's guilt stems both from not being there and enjoying himself while Jo was suffering; there's no logic or rationale to guilt, we simply feel it and it's pretty impossible to talk yourself out of it or be convinced there's no need to feel guilty. I did wonder, however, how Jo ended up there when she obviously hadn't been a victim of the men who raped and murdered the other children. (NT) -- Carla, 19:08:12 09/01/09 Tue
- Chapter 66 – Happy to Be Alive & Chapter 67 – The Brotherhood of the Ring -- CindyS, 00:07:51 08/31/09 Mon [7]
Chapter 66 – Happy to Be Alive
Pamela awakes in the hospital and finds a very disgruntled and shaken Casey. She avoids telling him what happened by trying to console him with the fact that she’s alive and intact. Pamela draws him down onto the bed and tells him “I’ll protect you.” They fall asleep together on the hospital bed.
Constable Fred comes to visit Pamela and get her statement regarding the shooting. Pamela fears losing her job and much worse if word gets out she went to meet Bright. She tries hard to convince the Constable it was an accident. The Constable is paled upon seeing Casey. Pamela believes this is a sign that he knew Brian and is her secret contact. The Constable prepares to leave and tells her no one will be by to bother her about the accident. Pamela is relieved as he leaves. Then Casey holds up the scarf she’d been blindfolded with and states “now we’re goin’ to talk about this ..An’ about whose blood was all over year hands.”
Pamela & Casey are constantly trying to protect each other but rarely communicate the dynamics surrounding those decisions. Are they more alike than they realize?
Can loving someone so much that you go to extremes to keep them safe be healthy for the relationship?
Do you think Pamela really understands what a dangerous position she has placed herself?
Is Constable Fred Pamela’s secret contact? Why do you think he paled at seeing Casey?
How much of the “true” story do you think Pamela will actually tell Casey?
Chapter 67 – The Brotherhood of the Ring
Casey is avoiding Pamela by throwing himself into household chores. Pamela recalls the attraction b/w them. “It took her this way at times, the enormity of what was between them, both physically & emotionally.” Finally Pamela reveals to Casey the details of her search into Brian’s death. Casey says that Brian “was never one for walkin’ away from someone in need. No matter what the consequences of helpin’ that person might be.” He recalls a stranger that his father helped out that not only gave him and odd feeling but he thought may have had something to do with his father’s demise. Pamela shows Casey the ring the hung man gave her and that she saw Bright wearing a similar one on a chain. Casey gets his father’s ring; the insignia is similar to the other two – an etched harp with the letters BOR.
Casey tells Pamela about the Brotherhood and seems convinced that anyone who had been part of the group would not admit to it now. Knowing Bright’s fearful reputation he’s surprised at the man’s involvement in the BOR and of his acquaintance with Brian. Casey takes a moment to wonder if he really knew his father and what he should do with his newly acquired information. Casey is firm that he doesn’t want her snooping about anymore however Pamela has just one last bit of information to investigate– an address that Bright secretly gave her.
Have you ever been consumed by the “enormity” of what exists b/w you and another person?
Based on Casey’s statement about Brian, do you think he realizes how much he’s like his father? If not, why?
Is it fair to go on your gut instincts and/or first impressions in regards to a person until you truly know them?
With so many of the original Brotherhood dead how is it that Bright is still around? Do you think his reputation is real or merely façade to cover another agenda?
How do you think Casey feels regarding this new revelation about Brian and the Brotherhood? Will he follow up on the information Pamela has already acquired regarding his father?
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- On the 'consumed by the enormity' issue- every once in awhile, it hits me how integral Pat has become in my life and how incredibly debilitating it would be if I lost him- all the things you build up over the years, the intangible things that you don't even realize you have until they are gone- that's the sort of thing that scares me when I think about what my world without him would be like. (NT) -- celtgirl, 12:57:50 08/31/09 Mon
- A couple of years ago, Ron moved back to Toronto six months before the boys and I did and it was those long months that showed me just how much we are central to each others' lives and emotional well-being. We don't live in each others' back pockets, but we would be lost without each other in many ways. (NT) -- Carla, 15:29:11 08/31/09 Mon
- I think Casey feels Brian and Pat are more alike, but I'm coming to see that both of his boys reflect aspects of Brian's personality and ways. I think Brian worked very hard to shield his children from the harder aspects of his own personality and actions. I think there are some people whom you simply "sense" from the very beginning are off, and others you know are good and true people long before you can truly say you know them. We don't pay enough attention to instinct, gut reaction and that type of thing in our culture, IMHO. Oh, I think Bright is truly a man to be feared and he's not afraid to do what it takes to protect himself and further his goals, which is why he's still around. I think Casey is a bit flummoxed at seeing this side of his father he never suspected despite how close the two men were. (NT) -- Carla, 17:56:14 08/31/09 Mon
- I like what you said Carla about how each of Brian's boys reflect different parts of his personality - I think so too. I think Pamela does know that the situation was/is dangerous but at this point in history there weren't many times in Ireland that were not dangerous so not sure she had much choice when it came to finding things out in order to protect and stay alive. (NT) -- Tracy, 18:04:23 08/31/09 Mon
- I thought the constable pales becuase he recognized Brian in Casey and got a little nervous but I wasn;t sure if he was Pamela's contact but htought he had something to do with it all. I kept thinking that Bright was Ireland's equivalent to Boston's Hagerty and looked for similarities between these two. Yes, I do think Bright should be feared and I would fear someone like this until I knew better otherwise. If he is still alive there must be a good reason or just means he is really, really good at staying alive and eliminating those who threaten his existence and power - hmmmm..similar to Hagerty? (NT) -- Tracy, 18:07:48 08/31/09 Mon
- Yes, I have been consumed by the enormity of what is between DBF and I. I could live in the poor guy's pocket- Hi Carla- not sure he would be as thrilled as I would be though ;). I know what it is like to live without him for a very, very long time and am blessed that we are together now. It did scare me without him in my life and it was most unbearable but now I can say that I don't have to think about that anymore or worry that it will happen again. Phew!!! (NT) -- Tracy, 18:10:24 08/31/09 Mon
- Chapter 65 – Neither Friend nor Enemy -- CindyS (), 00:32:49 08/30/09 Sun [3]
Talk about pinch hitting. I've never done book discussion before and to top it off there are some pretty emotional chapters coming up so I hope I do them justice and don't muck it up. CS
A) Pamela agrees to meet William Bright. As unnerving as the man is Pamela holds her own when he questions her and reminds him that he called her and arranged the meeting. The truth of Brian's death is revealed except for why. Bright tells Pamela "yer a smart Lass-put it together" then emphatically tells her "Everything is connect from the top of the hill to the whelp in the gutter." Pamela suspects Bright was friends with Brian. He then speaks of the secret meetings held in '61 and tells her that's where she needs to look and that he believes Brian came across info he shouldn't have.
Why do you think Bright contacted Pamela?
Is Pamela being reckless in meeting with Bright or simply resourceful in uncovering the truth about Brian’s death?
What is there to be gained with this knowledge?
Any idea what or who "top of the hill" refers to and why it's mentioned just before speaking of the '61 meetings?
B) The ride back from Bright's is interrupted with gunfire. Brights men are dead and the assailant is surprised to find Pamela but apparently knows of the Riordan men. Pamela is kept blindfolded and left at a hospital.
Any idea who the mystery man is?
Was he waiting for Bright's men? Following Pamela?
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Edited 1 time.
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- Slight change of plans -- PeggyB, 16:01:53 08/29/09 Sat [2]
I've been a bad shammie, well, not "bad" exactly, but very very busy. It has been a very intense summer for me, between both work and family, and I haven't been able to string together more than a few minutes at a stretch for reading. No way to read books like Cindy's, heck even the "junk-food" reading I've been doing has been tough. Bottom line is, I think I fell behind on Mermaids about chapter 2 and never caught up. D'oh!!!
CindyS has graciously offered to bail me out and will be posting this week's chapters (65-77). Thanks Cindy!!
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- Chapter 63: Brick Walls and Broken Doors -- celtgirl posting for Carla, 21:06:41 08/28/09 Fri [4]
Casey eases back into life in Belfast at the same time violence and unrest fill the streets in reaction to Bloody Sunday. The transition isn’t an easy one emotionally and finally Casey and Pamela have a rather fraught and emotional conversation about Casey’s feelings of having lost his place in their lives. He’s also jealous of the ease with which Jamie took care of them while he was gone.
Coming home is never as simple as it seems it should be and it is indeed hard to go back when you’ve been gone for a time. Casey talks about feeling less of a man because he was unable to take care of his family. How do you think Pamela would react if she’d been the one away from the family and unable to care for them?
Chapter 64: Beyond Borders
David comes to see Pat at the West Belfast Housing Association and finds Pat coping with the aftermath of a rather destructive visit by the British Army. David says he’s come to make sure Pat wasn’t one of the people killed during Bloody Sunday. He ends up staying for tea as Pat’s being watched. David admits that he loves Pat, understands he can’t love him back but still wants to be friends. Pat says he’s so angry over Bloody Sunday he feels as if he doesn’t know himself anymore and is capable of things he wouldn’t have even considered a month earlier.
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- Part Six: History’s Prisoners -- Carla, 05:57:47 08/28/09 Fri [5]
There were some pretty graphic pictures of the events of Bloody Sunday mirroring Cindy's description of the events of the day. She had the details down to a "t" as my first thoughts upon seeing them was "oh, that's just the way Cindy wrote it."
Chapter 61: Butcher’s Dozen
Pat is in Derry for a peaceful protest march against the current state of affairs in Northern Ireland. He’s worried about the Paras – an elite group of British soldiers – and what their presence in Derry for the march would mean. As the march progresses to the end point where Bernadette Devlin is to speak, Pat is icy with foreboding. His fears are born out when the Paras start firing real bullets into the crowd.
In the ensuing chaos, Pat finds himself caring for a wounded boy with Father Jim while they are pinned down by gunfire and hemmed in by barricades. Horror after horror unfolds before their eyes with unarmed men, women and children shot down by the British. Pat himself is shot, and it is only by fluke or miracle that the bullet merely grazes his temple rather than blowing the side of his head apart.
At the end of the day, 13 unarmed boys and men are killed. All unarmed. All Catholic. Eighteen are wounded, two of them women. Atrocities abound – soldiers preventing priests from giving the last rites to the dying, men and boys beaten and threatened, the wounded left to bleed to death where they fell in the streets. It became the turning point in Irish anger against the British in Northern Ireland and a mere blip in the radar of daily life in England.
What do you think makes ordinary men (and women) capable of such cold-blooded, unprovoked killing?
Chapter 62: No Place for Love or Dream at All . . .
Pat goes with Father Jim to attend and document the postmortems on those killed during Bloody Sunday. All the forensic evidence points to people shot from behind or while they were down, despite British claims the dead were the attackers and the British merely defending themselves.
Later, in the church yard, Pat offers his explanation of the events of the days before – the British powers-that-be wanted cause outrage in Northern Ireland such that hordes of men would flock to join the IRA, making it easier for the British themselves to put spies in place. Pat says he’s not joined “today.”
Pat is having a difficult time processing all he’s seen and done in the last day and Father Jim tries to help him to no avail. Casey arrives and finds Pat packed and ready to leave. Casey tells Pat he’s come to take him home and they leave together.
Do you feel you know all you are capable of? Do any of us really know until we are placed in such extreme circumstances? Was Father Jim right to bring Pat to the morgue to learn just how blatant the murders were?
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- 61) No matter how hard I try to understand the events of this day I simply can not fathom how someone could order the killing of peaceful protestors. I've often wondered if Pat was right...that it was merely a means by which to infiltrate the IRA. Very powerful chapter. 62)I think Fr. Jim sees Irelands future voice in Pat and is giving him the opportunity to channel his anger & fear so that it can be put to use - and I don't just mean the otopsies. Clearly the man was meant for so much more. I don't think any of us know our full potential until we're placed in trying situations. The same goes for Pat. I think the mans journey has just begun. (NT) -- CindyS, 07:03:44 08/28/09 Fri
- 61) Another very difficult chapter..ugh! It's hate and ignorance and I have no idea how to explain, justify or defend that position. It makes sense, Pat's theory about the day causing a huge influx into the IRA and making it easier for the government to get inside. It also maybe explains why Casey has been able to return to Belfast and remain fairly safe. (NT) -- Mahri, 16:00:25 08/28/09 Fri
- Have read about this horrible event, and always felt it was sort of like the Irish version of the U.S.'s Kent State - a real turning point, as Carla said. This is why my main interest in visiting Northern Ireland on the Shindig is to see Derry. I've always wondered if someone actually gave an order to fire, or if it was one reactionary who engaged first, and others followed. The investigation that followed this event was regarded as b.s., even by Tony Blair, iirc. (NT) -- Elaine, 05:43:20 08/29/09 Sat
- Chapter 59: Nuala -- Carla, 06:06:21 08/27/09 Thu [7]
Pamela and Casey get caught out in a terrible storm and take refuge in the cottage of an old woman, Nuala, whose husband and three sons all drowned at sea. She is waiting for them to come back to her and in the meantime talks to them as if they’re still there. She even has the skulls of two of her sons on the mantelpiece. She tells the story of their lives and deaths and then goes out into the storm to watch for their return.
Pamela and Casey bed down at the cottage and awake in the early hours to a waning storm and Nuala sleeping on the floor. She’d come back in the night and told Casey Sean wasn’t coming tonight, but would be soon. Casey and Pamela leave, needing to be alone. They talk about what they would do should one of them die.
I wondered, reading about Nuala, why she simply didn’t follow her men into the ocean. The loss of her family has obviously been too much for her mind to handle, so why not take the final step and join them? Is there a lesson for Casey and Pamela in Nuala’s story?
Chapter 60: All that You Can’t Leave Behind
Casey goes to get supplies from the boat and comes back with the news of a massacre in Derry and the surety that Pat was there. He announces that they must leave so he can find out if Pat is okay. Casey says he’s willing to risk being recaptured for the sake of finding out how Pat is. They spend the day in a tense silence, waiting for the boat that will bring them back to the mainland.
I did wonder why they couldn’t simply contact Jamie and find out what was happening with Pat, rather than risk Casey being captured. If you were in that situation, could you accept news from a third party or would you need to see for yourself? Is it worth the risk of Casey being picked up again?
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- Part Five: An Aran Idyll -- Carla, 19:06:19 08/25/09 Tue [14]
Chapter 56: The Fabulous Five
HMS Maidstone
Casey et al prepare for their escape, only to have the disappearance of one of the prisoners throw their timing off. They arrive on dry land to find no transportation awaiting them. Casey manages to “steal” a bus, which Roland drives hell-for-leather into a Republican enclave where the British don’t dare follow. People meet them in the streets with clothes, hot tea and a car. They travel on a further hour, finishing the night in Shane’s BIL’s pub, where Casey tries to contact Pamela. When the coast is clear, the men head out of Belfast, on the road to Dublin.
Why do you think Casey almost allowed himself to drown on the swim from the ship? Does luck play a role in their escape? Is luck something you simply have or do you make your own?
Chapter 57: I Will Lead You Home
A cottage on Inishmore
Jamie meets Casey in the middle of nowhere in the Republic to give him clean clothes, a car and a destination. He gives him, also, a succinct update on Pamela’s state of mind and tells him to stay away from her as that’s where the Brits will look for him first. It also seems Joe Doherty is looking for Casey, too, and with no more love than the English.
Casey arrives on Inishmore, one of the Aran Islands, and prepares to collapse into bed in the cottage Jamie has arranged for him only to find Pamela standing in the door. The reunion is at first hesitant, with each of them unsure how to resume their relationship after so much has happened. Even in bed, where they are usually of one accord, things are awkward and their emotions come between them at first. They end the night with a small talk that goes some way towards bridging the gap between them.
Chapter 58: The Morning After
Pamela makes Casey breakfast and then tells her, at her request, about his time on the prison ship. They end by telling each other of their love.
Often when you’ve built up a reunion or meeting in your head over days and months it doesn’t go as you imagined it would. Do you think Pamela is right to be angry with Casey for his internment? Is it a logical response to what’s happened, or just a real one?
Cindy ends Chapter 58 with these words: “I love you.” “I love you too.” “It was enough.” Is love enough?
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- 56) Oh I was holding my breath hoping ALL the men made it safely. I was afraid we'd have at least one tragedy here. I felt like Casey was lulled - the cold making him lethargic, his strength waning, the buoyancy of the water while he rested just soothed him. The cold numbing his body and his mind. And for a man who is not so fond of the water, the water creatures are sure drawn to him in times of need, aren't they? *g* I think luck works both ways, sometimes it just finds you but sometimes you make it yourself by your attitude (positive/negative) at the time and your willingness to work with what you have. I think the men got it both ways in this situation. (NT) -- Mahri, 07:29:44 08/26/09 Wed
- 57 & 58) These two chapters are so beautiful and heartwrenching - waiting for what seems like 1/2 the dang book for them to be together again and then the thick awkwardness between them just emanates right off the pages and makes me feel heavy (like with burden or something). I just want to fix them :-) I can't say Pamela's anger is logical, Casey didn't volunteer to be lifted and he was trying to stay away, but the feeling is definitely real and understandable. Why couldn't he just breathe outside this country, that no matter what, it seems, he is destined to die for :-( Inside for some lyrics to a song that runs through my head during these chapters>>> -- Mahri, 07:47:22 08/26/09 Wed
- Well, I'm a hopeless romantic or maybe I'm just naieve so I do think love is enough. When things get tough I remember that I love DBF and because of that I try something or I change my attitude or I consider his side etc., I haven't thought about this or discussed it out loud so perhaps there is room for discussion here but going on my first thoughts, yep love is enough. I, like Mahri, thought there would be a drowning and I thought it might be Shane so was surprised when Casey was going under! Yes, I too think the sea creatures are drawn to him and I read the chapter thinking that the seal was Brian actually. Did anyone else? As for luck, I'm not sure. I've heard there is no such thing as luck, that what happens to us is supposed to happen and that it is a blessing and no such thing as luck or being lucky. I tend to say that I am blessed when things do happen instead of saying I'm lucky but it's something that I still debate with myself now and then. (NT) -- Tracy, 18:25:34 08/26/09 Wed
- 56)I think luck or lack of it, is an excuse people use to explain why things go well for some, probably well deserved, and for others life can just suck. I think you make your own breaks, so take ownership of the results of your life. If shite happens, it's not that there's no luck, just that shite happens. (NT) -- Denise, 18:57:32 08/26/09 Wed
- 58) Is love enough? I think it sometimes is, but not without respect and trust. All the love in the world won't keep a couple together if these other essential factors are lacking. (NT) -- Denise, 19:05:44 08/26/09 Wed
- 56)I think Casey is just exhausted and the idea of being releaved of this and sent to blissful oblivion is more than tempting for him. And for some strange reason I remembered someone drowning so I was plesantly surprised with this re-read that no one actually did *G*. 57)I'm starting to think Jamie is Casey's guardian angel as well as Pamela's. 58)I think both their emotions are very real for them. And to be quite honest I never understood why he went to hide in the middle of Belfast when he knew he could be lifted. Thought for sure he'd head down the coast or to his uncle's. So yeah, I think I'd be a bit mad too. 59) Going against the grain here but No, Love is never enough. Relationships are hard work and if one feels that love will fix everything without putting for the work it takes to build and keep a relationship than I'm afraid one day they'll wake up saddly disillusioned(JMHO). (NT) -- CindyS, 22:29:30 08/26/09 Wed
- A very troubling Christmas all around for Casey, Pamela and Jamie. -- Carla, 16:34:34 08/24/09 Mon [6]
Chapter 54 – Christmas on Board
The men are all engaged in various activities to help them pass the time on their first Christmas on the prison ship. Casey reflects it's not the best, but certainly not the worst Christmas he’s spent in his life. He looks over the contents of the Christmas parcel Pamela had left for him and the men closest to him – a thoughtful gift for each man, including the parts of a transistor radio allowing them some contact with the outside world. He’s writing a letter to Pamela, reflecting on all he can’t tell her for various reasons, and the spin he’s put on events that were not so light-hearted in the moment. As it turns out, there’s also a special gift in the package from Jamie – the tide charts for the Lough. We learn the rudiments of the men’s escape plan. Shane is having a bit of a hard time this first Christmas away from home, so the men talk about their own experiences being in jail over Christmas to ease his misery and show him that it’s not so bad as it could be. Casey goes outside for a breath of air and imagines how Christmas might have been had he been at home with Pamela and Lawrence.
Have you ever been apart from your family and close friends at the holidays or had someone important not there with everybody else for some reason?
Chapter 55 – Moth to a Flame
A big dinner party is planned for Christmas evening at Kirkpatrick’s Folly, the first in many years. Pamela hides in a corner, consumed by despair – over the baby, Casey’s fate and her feelings for Jamie. She admits her feelings to Small Davey of Armagh when he asks her bluntly if it hurts badly.
At dinner, all goes well until the subject of Phouka comes up. It seems Jamie had told Belinda it was “their” horse. Pamela and Belinda engage in a heated conversation which degenerates to name calling and wine throwing. In the aftermath, Jamie and Pamela admit to their feelings for each other.
Is what Pamela feels for Jamie really love, or is it more a form of possessiveness? She’s completely in love with Casey, and admits it, yet still wants to be central (in her words) to Jamie’s life. Would these feelings have come back to the fore if Casey hadn’t been interned?
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- Having Paul in NYC, he missed out on a number of holidays with the family. Or better put, we missed out on being with him. It was very difficult, but obviously his situation was far better than Casey's. I think Pamela does love Jamie, but in this scene I think she is both jealous and has a deep need to be needed and wanted by a man. She's aware that Belinda is not woman enough for Jamie and yet her place at Jamie's side makes Pamela feel as though she's been replaced. Odd that Jamie kind of screwed the pooch here by saying one thing to Belinda about the horse, and then gifting it to Pamela. (NT) -- Elaine, 22:07:55 08/24/09 Mon
- 54: What a bittersweet chapter. I enjoyed the closeness of the men, making the most of this holiday in prison and Pamela's gifts to all were so meaningful. I wonder how she knew so much about the men close to Casey? I think I started to breathe just a tiny bit again with Jamie's gift to Casey, thinking maybe he is actually going to escape...I needed him out of there :-) I only remember twice, my Dad not being with us for Christmas, Vietnam and Turkey (which he chose to do alone). We almost always celebrated holidays without extended family (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins) which is something my children have never experienced. (NT) -- Mahri, 06:19:50 08/25/09 Tue
- 55: I think she loves him - different than her love for Casey though. They have a history, she has adored this man since she was what? 9? and he has been there for her in some of her darkest hours. She's jealous, though logically she knows and wants him to find someone to love and who will love him back, I think this is her first experience with actually seeing another in his life. I really really did not like this chapter the first time I read it - after rereading though, I think I understand her a wee bit better. If Casey had been there, I think Pamela still would have had some jealous pangs but I don't think it would've gone as far as it did, the woman is having deprivation dreams...jaysus...those can sometimes make you have the hots (temporarily) for someone you never even looked twice at before *g* Not at all surprising that this happens between J & P considering the circumstances. (NT) -- Mahri, 06:36:01 08/25/09 Tue
- I got all excited about the party and was glad to see some celebration among the fighting and hardships everyone was enduring. I quite enjoyed the fight between Pamela and Belinda. Yes, I have been apart from someone during the holidays and because it was a holiday all the emotions were amplified and the memories bittersweet but once the holidays were over I still missed the person just as much. I think Pamela does love Jamie but in a different way from how she loves Casey. I think there is some possessiveness on her part which I think is natural considering that she has loved him a long time and first told Jamie in EU. They are close and share a lot of history so I think it's only natural to feel like he is hers expecially when another woman coms on scene and threatens that. (NT) -- Tracy (), 11:24:57 08/25/09 Tue
- Hi ladies, sorry for the late post I'm away from home for my mom's wedding. -- Carla, 16:18:15 08/23/09 Sun [10]
Chapter 52 – Visiting Day
Pamela goes to visit Casey for only the second time in four months. Twelve feet of empty space and two metal grilles separate them. And there are guards listening to every word they say. She gives him a brief update on what’s happening at home and breaks the news about the loss of the baby. Then he asks her not to visit him again as it’s too hard on him. Pamela is upset, needing to see him to know that he’s all right. Casey then shows her his back.
After Pamela’s visit, Casey doesn’t join the other men for the usual evening chat and game playing. When Matty asks how he’s doing, Casey tells him he’s thinking about how to get off the ship. Matty asks to go with him.
I cannot imagine being separated from the man I love in such a way, to know that he’s being poorly treated at best, possibly tortured and could even be killed at any moment with no recourse to justice. My heart just ached for the two of them here, I understand Casey’s side of things, but know how Pamela feels as well. What would be your instinct in such a situation? To stay away or see your man at any cost?
Chapter 53 – Phouka
Jamie gives Pamela a beautiful and very valuable horse for Christmas. As Pamela is out riding the estate in the early morning of Christmas Day she comes across a small, weathered cottage she had never seen before. She peeks in through a window and sees an envelope. The writing on the outside sets her heart racing and she begins to feel as if someone or something is moving in the forest around the cottage. She returns to the barn where Jamie, when questioned, tells her the cottage belongs to an old woman whose family has been on the land for many generations and whose tenant he says he is. When Pamela questions this comment, he tells her it was a “silly joke” and warns her to stay away from the cottage in the future as it’s “not safe” because of wells in the area. Jamie chats on about nothing in particular and so Pamela, realizing he doesn’t want to talk about it, doesn’t ask him why the envelope she saw had his name and two interlocking rings on it.
Who do you think lives in the cottage? What does Jamie mean when he says he’s her tenant? Pamela is often very persistent in the face of this type of avoidance, why does she let things lie here?
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- 52)I would have to see him at least once. After that it would be his decision. Cindy I don't know if you intended it, but the spatial relation b/w them in this scene holds so much meaning...physical, mental, emotional distance from each other. Not being able to care for the other, watching each other survive but knowing that your not a part of their current world. Very emotional. 53) That picture is just how I imagined Phouka. Nicely done. What a generous gift and how Jamie like to present something so personal and special to Pamela to help relieve her wounded soul. I'm going out on a limb with the cabin and guessing that it's maybe his old nurse-maid/nanny or some other "motherly" figure that's been with the family for a very long time. But I'm thinking she's actually no longer alive and the cottage is used as a rendezvous for The Brotherhood. Oh, and I think the message inside is from David (just a guess). (NT) -- CindyS, 18:31:31 08/23/09 Sun
- Hearty and happy congratulations to your mom, and to you, Carla, as you add a stepdad to the family! I hope the plans go smoothly and your all have a wonderful time together on this momentous occasion! (NT) -- Elaine, 05:56:46 08/24/09 Mon
- As to your questions, I would like to think that I could stay away from my husband in prison if that was his wish, but it would be terribly difficult to do. I think Jamie would know if something was terribly wrong with Casey, so she should stay away for his sake. I like Cindy's answers to the questions for Chapter 53. On my own note, this chapter really hurt because I felt the depth of Jamie's despair on knowing that although there is love between himself and Pamela, it can never be acted upon because of Casey. I don't have my book with me, but the last line about how many times one can die in a lifetime tears my heart out. (NT) -- Denise, 06:56:28 08/24/09 Mon
- 52) At any cost to myself, perhaps; but at what cost to ~him~ is really the issue. If seeing him would cause him more pain and suffering, then I would have to make the sacrifice. I think that's what Casey was trying to get across to her. She may have been willing to endure the lewd 'searches' in order to see him, but for Casey it didn't stop there. The guards' taunting him about his wife, and making threats to her safety, when he is helpless to protect her. But the one positive that came out of it was the jolt to Casey that he had to get out of there. 53) The description that it is an old woman whose family has been there for many generations makes me think it is a relative of Jamie's, and wondering from what/ whom he is trying to keep Pamela away. (NT) -- Tess, 08:57:27 08/24/09 Mon
- I would see DBF at least once and he would allow that but likely would do as Casey would in order to protect me and himself and ask me to stay away. Of course it would be terrible but knowing what would happen otherwise would keep me in check. I would rather suffer a little in the short-term than suffer forever if something happened to DBF. (NT) -- Tracy, 11:28:18 08/25/09 Tue
- Mermaid in a Bowl of Tears, Chapter 51 -- Mahri (In Farmville :-)), 17:50:23 08/21/09 Fri [8]
The White Doe
'Pamela, under stern orders from both Father Gilles and Jamie, had been two days in bed.'
Pamela is feeling restless and decides to take a walk. On her way out she glimpses her reflection in the water basin and remembers these lines from Tennyson's 'The Lady of Shallot'.
The mirror crack'd from side to side,
The curse is come upon me, cried
The Lady of Shallot.'
Pamela feels cursed or punished for the choices she has made.
Walking through the abbey passageways, Pamela sees Jamie standing along the river bank, feeding a white doe.
They find shelter and Jamie shares the story of the white doe, who was named after the first child born in America, Virginia Dare and the Indian legend about the child.
Is there a lesson or point Jamie is trying to get across to Pamela with this story? Any significance to recent or current times or is he simply comforting her by talking and telling a story?
They speak a bit of their shared past, of the first time Jamie came here to this Abbey on the island and his feeling of being alone and forgotten in his illness.
'Father Lawrence kept me here until he convinced me that none of us are ever, even in the darkest hours of our lives, alone. That to believe we were alone was a transgression against God and against those who loved us.'
Pamela asks him if he still believes that - 'Some nights I do.'
'When the dark night seems endless....'
'Remember me.'
Posting early tonight - moving the girl into the dorm bright and early tomorrow. Have a great weekend Shammies!
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- Mahri, I'm so sorry that I've been MIA again, but just had to say that the photos you've posted are once again outstanding! Feeling a bit better today, hope to be back in on the discussion. (NT) -- E, 08:20:40 08/22/09 Sat
- OK, call me crazy (not too hard to believe!), but I've just played my own association game in my head. Albino deer - befriended by Jamie - played by Paul Bettany - who plays an albino in "The DaVinci Code". Silly, but fun! (NT) -- Denise, 10:52:55 08/22/09 Sat
- This is another chapter that exemplifies the strong emotional bond shared between Pamela and Jamie, but also has an overwhelming sense of sadness and emptiness. I wonder if the albino doe represents survival of something so fragile, echoing the survival of Pamela and Jamie and their sometimes tenuous, but deeply felt connection. (NT) -- Denise, 10:58:44 08/22/09 Sat
- I did feel the sadness too Denise but I also felt that Jamie and Pamela had a chance to heal, to forgive and to find some peace with their relationship and the events that had just occurred. If that couldn't happen in a monastery, I don't know where it could really. The time to reflect and think I thought was at the doorstep so to speak. (NT) -- Tracy, 18:14:13 08/22/09 Sat
- JMHO but don't most of us have some sort of "guilt" when the result of choices we made isn't to our liking or expecting. I often think of it as the should've, could've, would've syndrome. But in most cases it's about making peace with yourself, as I believe Fr. Lawrence stated :) White Doe - Is it just me or is the religious symbolism surrounding Jamie growing? First he's refered to as angelic and the heavens admiring him. Then he's reaching out to the outcast, meek, downtrodden. Now he's like this guiding light and I can't help but wonder if he's being setup as some sort of "savior". (NT) -- CindyS, 19:03:18 08/22/09 Sat
- Mermaid in a Bowl of Tears, Chapters 49 & 50 -- Mahri, 06:01:47 08/21/09 Fri [10]
Chapter 49, Midnight Secrets
'It was the moaning of the wind that woke her.'
Deprivation dreams.
Shadowy figures in the night.
Secret pre-dawn meetings in the study.
The Trustees - until now a rumor for Pamela. A group of prominent, privileged men in society, funding and directing a Loyalist assassination squad.
Just my thoughts - two sides, wee groups splintering off from both sides each with their own idea of how to control or bring an end to this unofficial war. Less than 40 years ago.
Amazing to me that any kind of peace was obtainable at all.
Pamela has set up a meeting with her mystery note sender. She has not told Pat.
Chapter 50, Fire, Fleet and Candlelight
'The moon came up low and smoky over the hills, lending a spectral cast to bony tree limbs and hunched shoulders of the surrounding hills.'
Pamela is out for her meeting with her mystery note man. Jamie has followed her, apparently on a request from Pat to watch her. They end up hiding in the loft of a nearby byre.
Two unknown men enter the byre, ambush the mystery man when he appears and Pamela and Jamie watch has they hang him then set fire to the byre.
With no other means of escape Jamie tells Pamela they must jump from the loft. She tells him she is pregnant and he shields her fall as best he can.
Because Jamie had been able to cut through the hanging rope before the hanging, the mystery man is still alive, Jamie is able to pull him from the fire and they set off for a monastery on an island in a nearby lake. Along the way, though the mystery fellow is unable to talk, he gives Pamela a ring - the design the same as the interlocking rings on her notes.
While Jamie stays behind, unable to carry his burden any further, Pamela finds a wee boat and sets off for the island and help. Just before reaching shore and the monks awaiting, she feels the low deep pain that signals she is miscarrying the baby.
Pamela awakes in a room in the Abbey, bruised and worn down, physically and mentally. She learns Jamie is fine, the monks have, yet again, fixed his collarbone. The mystery man did not make it through the night and the babe she lost was another girl.
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- Chapter 49 shows how well matched Pamela and Jamie are in their repartee. CINDY, where did you come up the idea for the word game? Although the outcome in Chapter 50 is so very sad, I enjoyed the pictures it paints of Jamie as the caring, selfless man who is still very emotionally connected to Pamela. The last few lines really kill me, despite all the obstacles, they are still each other's best friend. (NT) -- Denise, 07:08:47 08/21/09 Fri
- Ohh thank goodness for Jamie. I breathed a huge sigh of relief when he appeared. It was sad to know that Pamela had miscarried but the time at the monastery seemed to be one of healing and of peace and I think Jamie and Pamela needed it. I agree Denise, "You're my dearest friend. That's my unavoidable truth." is one of the best lines. (NT) -- Tracy, 09:12:23 08/21/09 Fri
- I felt so sorry for Pamela, losing another one. I certainly hope that her pregnancy at the end turns out to be a success. (NT) -- Tess, 11:33:54 08/21/09 Fri
- I was devastated for Pamela here. That baby would have been such an important symbol of hope for her, but it was not to be. (NT) -- Elaine, 10:12:39 08/22/09 Sat
- So glad Jamie was there otherwise I don't think she would have made it through the night. How my heart ached for her at the loss of another child. And is it odd that Jamie lost 3 boys and Pamela 3 girls? Hmm....I actually don't see Pamela raising a daughter. Maybe it's the assertive risk taker in her, it somewhat defies traditional male/female roles. Then again it could just be my MOBO vibe :) As for the Brotherhood & the Trustees...I think I've got this figured out >>> -- CindyS, 18:32:23 08/22/09 Sat
- Mermaid in a Bowl of Tears, Chapter 48 -- Mahri (), 06:00:11 08/20/09 Thu [8]
If I Were a Blackbird
'The wary peace lasted another few weeks and then was abruptly blown apart.'
Sugar and bleach have been found in the prisoners quarters, underneath Shane's bunk. These ingredients could be used to make a bomb, though small in quantity, the Sergeant believes punishment is in order.
Casey takes the blame, sparing Shane a cruel life lesson. The other men do not agree but Casey feels young Shane would suffer worse, mentally, than he will himself.
The punishment is flogging. Twenty strokes. It is around the 4th stroke in that Casey begins singing, this act alone is enough to enrage the Sergeant wielding the whip, and Casey's choice of song brings that rage up a notch. The young Scots soldier who is witnessing the punishment pleads with the Sergeant to stop at 20.
1) In our previous discussion, we talked about Casey's decision to sing, the why's of it and his choice of song. Could you, in a situation like this, focus your mind on something else? What would it be? Personally, I think I'd pass out!
After the flogging, Matty and Delcan refuse any help in caring for Casey. They demand an 'offsite' doctor and close themselves off in the Infirmary.
Casey dreams of Brian. Brian tells Casey he was wrong to say that the sky above and the earth below, in times, would be enough. Instead Brian tells him to look at his hands. In the way of dream vision/sight, Casey feels a weight in his hands and sees a blue green seed.
'As small as a seed, as large as the universe- call it love, call it spirit. None can take it from ye, an' ye don't allow it. An' that, boy, is sometimes all ye'll have, but it will always be enough.'
In the darkness, Matty admits to Casey that he was drawn to him for the memory of Brian but he stays for the man he found in Casey.
We learn that Shane did not go unpunished. The men were hard on him, physically, but left his soul and spirit in tact and that leaves room for forgiveness. Again we are witness to music being used to calm and soothe.
Last edited by author: Thu August 20, 2009 06:01:12
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- I feel bad that it was you, of all people, Miss Mahri, that had to cover this chapter. (NT) -- celtgirl, 13:00:14 08/20/09 Thu
- I looked at the picture and didn't register what it was at first - uggh! I can't imagine that sort of punishment, let alone taking it willingly for another person. He knew the pain he was in for, is this really a good thing? Oh, I'm finally caught up and can follow along with all of you! (NT) -- Denise, 14:56:52 08/20/09 Thu
- I cannot imagine having the psychological strength to put myself in the situation Casey did for Shane's sake. And then to sing through it. I have certainly used techniques such as focused breathing and deep relaxation to distract myself from discomfort or pain but I don't think any of that would work for such extreme pain. (NT) -- Carla, 15:21:13 08/20/09 Thu
- I've always been a firm believer in suffereing your own consequences, but somehow it seems fitting that Casey would take this on for Shane. Protector of those he sees as weaker or less fortunate. Singing definitely soothes the soul. I know when I was going through a tough medical procedure I was humming a tune, albeit in my head b/c I didn't want to distract the doctor. Casey's choice to sing out loud only proves his resolve and strength of character and drives home the fact that you may injure a mans flesh but you can not have his heart ....which is what Brian's message reinforces. FWIW I do like these clipits of Brian. They really bring to light the love and respect with which Pat & Casey were raised. (NT) -- CindyS (), 15:29:25 08/20/09 Thu
- Mermaid in a Bowl of Tears, Chapter 47 -- Mahri, 10:47:41 08/19/09 Wed [8]
All Hallowtide
'Away from the city lights, fall closed in quickly.'
Feeling restless and with a nagging sense that someone has been watching her, Pamela decides to have a gathering. She has invited Pat, Sylvie and Jamie to come celebrate Hallowe'en with her.
Pamela tells Pat that she's received another note, this one requesting a meeting. Pat tells her she is do NOTHING alone.
Jamie asks about Pamela's meeting with Casey. She tells him it went fine but that Casey has asked her not to return. Jamie agrees, Pamela does not.
When Lawrence sees someone moving among the trees, the men and dog take off for the woods. Evidence is found that someone has been camped out in the area for awhile, the binoculars and the view through them, prove Pamela has indeed been watched.
(pardon Pamela's boobies - but I thought the picture of looking through binocs into someone's bedroom window, was just too perfect ;-)
Jamie insists Pamela, Lawrence, Finbar, Paudeen if necessary move to his home. Whether with Jamie or himself & Sylvie, Patrick agrees she needs to leave.
Pat and Jamie believe the voyeur to be Robin.
A funny moment - when Jamie asks Pamela if she has a torch, she directs him to a drawer in the kitchen. On my first read I'm thinking What? why the hell would she keep a torch in the kitchen? Haha, a flashlight - as they say in my nephew Zach's native language 'DUH' *g*
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- Mermaid in a Bowl of Tears, Chapter 46 -- Mahri (), 07:06:29 08/19/09 Wed [4]
Truth and Consequences
'Pamela entered Pat's small office space on a gust of chill wind, brown and gold leaves caught fast in her hair and on her scarf.'
Pamela shares the information she has uncovered about Brian with Pat.
We get a little more insight, from Pat's perspective, about his father's death. Brian had distanced himself from the IRA, there would have been no reason for him to be making or working with bombs, especially at the garage where he worked and where the boys would be with him sometimes.
Why was Casey & Pamela's marriage dangerous for Casey? 'To marry someone from away- someone who'd no past that was common knowledge, men have been killed for less in this city.'
During this same conversation, Pat let's Pamela know he's well aware of the feelings between herself and Jamie. He doesn't begrudge it as it takes nothing away from what she is gives his brother.
They agree to pursue the matter of Brian...TOGETHER. Neither one is to make a move with consulting the other.
Another chapter later today...maybe
Last edited by author: Wed August 19, 2009 07:16:36
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- Mermaid In a Bowl of Tears, Chapters 44 & 45 -- Mahri (), 06:50:08 08/18/09 Tue [5]
Chapter 44, An Examination of Conscience
'It had been a long time since Pamela had sought the comfort of the church.'
Pamela is still struggling with her guilt over Love Hagerty. She and Lawrence have taken to helping Father Lawrence at a local parish, where she instantly feels at peace while at the same time, unworthy to be there. She, in a round about way, touches on her fears and hopes of heaven, with Fr. Lawrence.
'Perhaps Pamela, Father Jim finally said, it's more a matter of forgiving yourself, rather than needing God's forgiveness. The two things are, many times, one and the same.'
Patrick has been released, Pamela's joy at seeing him is overshadowed when she initially mistakes him for Casey.
We learn that Pamela as taken a job with the RUC, photographing crime scenes. She has used her mother's maiden name to get the job.
She has been receiving anonymous cryptic notes regarding Brian Riordan. The only distinguishing factor in each note being the two interlocking rings at the top of the paper.
Why does she not tell Jamie about the notes? She seems able to tell him anything, complete honesty sometimes between them.
Part Four When the Dark Night Seems Endless
Chapter 45, Letter from Beyond
'There was no chance of getting into the file room until after lunch'
A key has shown up with one of the mysterious puzzle notes, it is to the file room at the police station and Pamela bides her time to use it.
Though she is unsure exactly what she is looking for, it appears that her anonymous correspondent has planted or marked her way. She finds paperwork which implicates that Brian Riordan was murdered.
Last edited by author: Tue August 18, 2009 07:02:58
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- Mermaid In a Bowl of Tears, Chapters 42 and 43 -- Mahri (), 06:30:56 08/17/09 Mon [13]
Chapter 42, In the Watches of the Night
'The Beechmount Youth Center had become a strangely calm center to Pamela's universe.'
In Casey's absence, Pamela and Lawrence have kept the Youth Center open. She has also taken odd photography jobs as the opportunity arises.
'Despite unceasing violence and disruption, people still married and had babies, attended weddings and christenings.....'
They sleep at the Center on some nights when the work hours are long and on one such night Pamela is startled awake by a shadowy figure at the end of her bed.
Robin comes to her rescue and the intruder gets away.
Any thoughts on who it might've been?
Pamela learns that Robin and a couple of his lads have been keeping watch over the center - and it's not an IRA job.
In an attempt to calm nerves, they sit down over tea (with a side of brandy). They discuss Joe Doherty and his beef with Casey. The situation with Melissa comes up and Pamela decides she can forgive the transgressions of youth, especially if Casey has, but she is unsure if Robin has honor as a man.
She likes him but she doesn't trust him.
Chapter 43, History Lessons
'By mid-September David Kendall knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he'd taken complete leave of his senses.'
David has continued his visits with Pat. The seemingly random acts of kindness and trust have increased from food/sustenance and sight to freedom of movement and showers.
They have a rather heated discussion regarding their differences - Englishman/Irishman - with David implying that Patrick didn't even know what the fighting was all about.
'Eight hundred years of occupation an' subjection when all we wanted was to be left in peace. We never asked ye for anything, never exploited nor oppressed ye as others did. never invaded ye, never stole your land an' parcelled it out to our own people as war booty, never let yer people starve while food rotted in the harbors. We've never put yer women an' children to the sword, nor massacred or transported yer men to foreign land where they'd no more notion of how to survive than a wee child, where everything was foreign, an' all ye were was another goddamn paddy, a mick, a fockin' bogtrottin' Fenian bastard.'
'Ye took our language, our schools, our priests had to flee or die, ye took our culture, an' even after ye'd stripped us of everything we'd ever been or known, ye mocked us- stupid Paddy, with his backward ways.'
'An' then when we've the temerity to stand up against ye, when we rise from the fire and' say enough, ye call us terrorists. The goddamn Irish, they say, all they know is hate. Well I ask ye, Corporal, who taught it to us, who made sure it was bred deep into the bone an' blood of us?'
I'd like to hear what the counter point would be from the other side. Do they have one? Or is an apology about the only thing you can do in answer to the past? I know there are no easy answers and millions of opinions, we've our own history of stealing land, forcing native peoples out and oppression and prejudice.
Feeling Pat's pain, David crosses a line and touches him.
We have just a few moments earlier had a glimpse (a very steamy glimpse) at Patrick's manly body, and now we witness the savage, brutal way in which he knows how to use it.
Surprised?
They make their peace with talk of dreams and the losses that changed them.
Last edited by author: Mon August 17, 2009 06:46:23
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- That b&w photo is gorgeous, Mahri! I think it's a blessing now for Pamela to have Lawrence with her. Remember fearing, on my first read, that maybe the shadowy figure in her room might have been Lucien! Pamela's one smart cookie where Robin's concerned, imo. That little soliloquy that Pat delivered to David really summed it all up well. In one movie we saw about the Troubles, an Englishman said something to the effect, 'Ireland is such a beautiful country. If only it weren't filled with the Irish.' (NT) -- E, 07:29:21 08/17/09 Mon
- Every once in awhile I'll see something I wrote in a different context, someone quotes it at me or like this morning up on this board, and I think 'I wrote that? Really?' Feeling that way this morning about Pat's wee speech. Or maybe I really do just take dictation for these people. :) (NT) -- celtgirl, 08:31:06 08/17/09 Mon
- I'm really annoyed that I allowed myself to get so far behind in reading Mermaid while on holiday. I've only got about 200 or more pages to read to catch up with you...and now that I'm back to work that won't be too easy to do! Aaarggh! (NT) -- Denise, 09:16:12 08/17/09 Mon
- Not sure who the intruder was but nothing good could come of someone standing at the end of Pamela's bed in the middle of night while she slept. If it was one of the centre's boys I think he could have and would likely have waited till morning to say he needed some food or a place to sleep. That being said, if Robin and his guys were watching the centre, then how did one of the youths get in? I cannot remember so am guessing but could Robin hae planted the kid and then gone in to rescue Pamela to gain her trust and look like the good guy hero? (NT) -- Tracy, 10:44:02 08/17/09 Mon
- Chapters 39-41 -- Dreen (), 21:21:16 08/15/09 Sat [9]
39 Music Room
~David Kendall helps Pat in the jail where he has been brutally treated. The act of humanity on the part of David always reminds me that in war there are still individuals, not just 'sides'. How did you feel about it?
40 Nothing Sacred
"Don't you dare say it Sylvie, don't you dare. Our men are coming home if we have to go break them out of whatever hellhole the British have dragged them off to."
"We'll glue together what we can and put the rest in the dustbin. Did the bastards leave any of the cleaning stuff?"
~Can you fathom it, really, this life that people lead in parts of the world that are at war? Can you even imagine the state of your mind and emotions having to live in this kind of terror all the time?
41 Traveller's Prayer
It struck her suddenly that one could die even when needed by husband, by children, by the very weft of the world around them.
~This wee little chapter has always held so much more for me than it would seem at first glance. It speaks of the powerlessness we have in regards to mortality. How did Pamela's moment of clarity, and then fear affect you? Do you allow yourself that kind of honesty to the reality we all face as travellers? And isn't the Celtic prayer for travellers just breathtaking?
Last edited by author: Sun August 16, 2009 10:56:53
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- Posting early so I don't fall asleep watching my movie and forget to do it. Nighty-night! (NT) -- Dreen (), 21:23:44 08/15/09 Sat
- Dreen- is the chapter 'The Music Room' not in that copy? That's chapter 39 in the regular book- the one where Pat first meets David. Not wanting to be a nitpick or anything- just thought I'd ask. (NT) -- celtgirl, 08:59:42 08/16/09 Sun
- (39) Even in the midst of horror and crisis, there can be love. It never ceases to amaze me. In real life, most of what we hear are the truly despicable things, but every once in awhile we are treated to one of those beautiful moments, and we're reminded that compassion still exists, even in the worst of circumstances. (40) There are simply too many places in this war-torn world of ours where people have grown accustomed to oppression and occupation and violence. The thing that always blows me away is that, in all those unstable cultures, the women stand out as being stronger than the men. Sure, the men fight and kill, but the women are the ones who hold their tattered world together. (41) That prayer is very moving. It covers the three phases of a woman's life, and the three faces of the Goddess. A fitting way to memorialize the poor, dead, unknown woman Jamie and Pamela discovered. (NT) -- Elaine, 14:48:07 08/16/09 Sun
- 39. I liked David and appreciated what he did but I was still nervous. I think I'm always nervous meeting new characters because I don't know their motives or who they really are yet. 40. No, I cannot imagine it. I have been petrified a couple of times in my life and dealt a hard blow once that almost did me in but to live like the Irish did on a daily basis at that time, no I cannot fathom it, cannot really understand what it would feel like to know that at any minute my family and my home could be destroyed forever. I am grateful that I do not this. 41 - I like how Elaine worded her response and I could not say it better. (NT) -- Tracy, 16:43:17 08/16/09 Sun
- 40 - Nope can't fathom it, but we'd probably amaze ourselves did we have to - 'The strength of the human spirit never ceased to surprise her. It was the one thing no enemy had ever been able to flog out of the Irish.' I think we all have it we're just not all tested like this yea? (NT) -- Mahri, 06:38:44 08/17/09 Mon
- Mermaid in a Bowl of Tears - Chapters 37 and 38 -- Tracy, 09:35:46 08/15/09 Sat [7]
Chapter 37 - Zorba and Company
Strangford Lough 
"The Greek threw him a sideways smile, causing his moustache - large, black and oily - to twitch alarmingly."
"Zorba the Greek," Toad snickered, "is this some kind of feckin' joke?".
"You think is funny?" said the Greek, thick brows lowering ominously, "I think not is funny."
1. I knew all hell would break loose after this. I love, love, love when Jamie is in disguise and on an adventure. What did you think about Zorba the Greek?
"...The two of ye saved my life, another minute or two an' I'd have been dead. How the hell did ye know to find me?"
"Casey nodded, drawing the blanket tighter. "Aye, there's been a couple of things that have happened out of the way since I've been home..."
2. Who is out to kill Casey and who is the man with the voice that is posh like Jamie's but not as cultured? Could they be the same man?
"Jamie gone beyond the bounds of exhaustion and sense, laughed without humor. "I've handed him over to the British Army."
Chapter 38 - The Maidstone
I read that Gerry Adams was an internee on the Maidstone.
"The second he kept in his shirt pocket, unable to bear parting with the small bit of familiarity and home her few words provided him."
"The entire deck had stilled, the milling, tense crowd suddenly frozen in place. And Casey know without even looking up, that the cat had come amongst the pigeons."
"Until later then, Mr. Riordan." The Sergeant made me nervous. He couldn't just be a nice guy, could he? I agree with Casey that he had made an enemy he couldn't afford but it wasn't Casey's fault. I was annoyed at Declan and Roland.
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- Mermaid in a Bowl of Tears - Chapter 36 -- Tracy, 10:52:29 08/14/09 Fri [13]
Chapter 36 - The Devil and Mr. Jones
Apparently, the most expensive vodka and filled with precious gems.
Isn't this the prettiest bottle of vodka?
"She asks about ye, always, but I never have an answer for her. I tell her that ye don't come around anymore an' she says she thought ye were wise enough to understand that we were still yer family too."
1. Is Joan Colleen's mother? I cannot remember and thought I better check.
2. Do you think it is hard to keep ties with the in-laws when there is no connection via wife or children anymore?
"Don't tell me ye've forgotten the pearls, Jamie?" ... "then ye'd drink off the vodka an' store the pearls in your mouth."..."he'd take his tongue an'-" Cindy, where is the rest of this intriguing tale? :)
3. From where does Thrawny, Colleen's brother, get his information? Who would kill Thrawny if they found out he was talking to Jamie?
4. I started to feel a real sense of gut-wrenching fear at the end of this chapter. For some reasons Thrawny's words carried such weight and such fright that it scared me not knowing what they were going to face at 8:00pm. How about you?
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- I was trying to remember the relationship too - I don't think her mother, maybe an aunt? I was surprised that I didn't remember Colleen's family was Protestant. Did Colleen convert or was the Protestant only on one side and she was raised on the other? (NT) -- Mahri, 11:29:50 08/14/09 Fri
- 2. I think sometimes it is more difficult than others, depending on how much pain and hurt is involved when you and their daughter/son part ways. (NT) -- Mahri, 11:31:45 08/14/09 Fri
- Yes, what about the rest of the pearl story? *g* I've heard of pearls (other than the jewelry kind), though the description I heard of what they were used for I'm thinking is different from what Jamie & Winnie were participating in, cuz the one I heard just gives me an icky feeling :-) (NT) -- Mahri, 11:36:30 08/14/09 Fri
- 3. I had no idea before this read Tracy, this time I think I'm getting a handle on what he's mixed up in, before the fog stated clearing though I had thought he was just part of some Loyalist gang type thing. But even that didn't make sense to me given how fond he is of Jamie (even if he hasn't been showing it in this scene), Catholic and all. I was nervous about the 8:00 meeting but I knew Jamie must have a plan, he wasn't just gonna walk in there as himself without any backup, so I was curious how he was going to pull it off - he's so funny when he's in character :-) (NT) -- Mahri, 11:45:37 08/14/09 Fri
- 2) I think it depends on the ppl involved. My DB continued to have fishing trips with his former FIL but I do believe that stopped when DB got remarried. And I know my sister has stated many times how she misses her BIL and what a great father and role-model he was. Heck I even miss him. He was more a part of our/their family than the actual SIL (her DH's sister). But the DSIL asked he not be included in family events with her, so I guess they have to respect her wishes as well. The whole thing is horribly sad. (NT) -- CindyS, 12:13:44 08/14/09 Fri
- I was totally mystified as to how Joan and Thrawny fit into Colleen's life, so thanks for asking, Tracy :) I think how in touch you stay (or don't) depends on how the relationship ended, who's moved on to another relationship, etc. (NT) -- Carla, 14:13:41 08/14/09 Fri
- I figured Thrawny was somehow connected to Protestant militants and that they would certainly kill him if they found out he was talking to Jamie. I figured it was going to be no good thing they found when they went looking for Casey and was worried for all of them. I assumed Cindy wouldn't kill Jamie or Casey, but thought Thrawny's days might be numbered. (NT) -- Carla, 14:15:31 08/14/09 Fri
