And that's where part of the problem lies, "Blair refuses to forgive Todd." Again, the perspective of the writers and promos is that Todd is the one that did something bad. Todd needs to be forgiven. Sorry, not on my screen. -- At The Bayberry

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Date Posted: 14:21:06 03/17/01 Sat
Author: Elisa
Subject: And that's where part of the problem lies, "Blair refuses to forgive Todd." Again, the perspective of the writers and promos is that Todd is the one that did something bad. Todd needs to be forgiven. Sorry, not on my screen.
In reply to: Jules 's message, "Thanks for posting TnTLURKER. Honestly this stuff does not seem to phase me because I guess I just don't care much anymore. :) Just waiting for T�a to return and for TnT. Because apparently, according to the TV Guide spoilers "Blair refuses to forgive Todd" this coming week. So there is your tease! LOL! It sounds like after all this Blair rebuffs Todd yet again. See? Getting real old. So I think I'll just spend my time writing some letters for what *I* want to see. FL/T�a/TnT." on 10:57:12 03/17/01 Sat

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Replies:

Todd's supposed to "trust" Blair, even though time after time she does bad things to him and has never felt remorse or taken any responsibility for any of it. This time she isn't guilty of sleeping with Max, but she IS guilty of kissing him and inviting him into her room the night before the wedding, putting her games ahead of Todd's feelings, lying about it, and as usual, taking no responsibility for her actions, or that her actions gave Max the opportunity to pull the scam to begin with. (NT) -- Elisa, 14:28:09 03/17/01 Sat
- Why should Todd "trust" someone who isn't even sorry for anything bad she's ever done and therefore doomed to repeat it? And this whole thing would probably be watchable for me if it wasn't being written from Blair's perspective. If Todd would just TELL her that he can't trust her because she never feels bad or takes any responsibility for what she does, if he would just TELL her that Max couldn't have scammed them if SHE hadn't let him in. (NT) -- Elisa, 14:39:41 03/17/01 Sat
  - Like I keep saying writing showing signs of DID... in those powerful, riveting jailhouse scenes T&B (and I do mean T&B not BnT) were actually delving into the "root of distrust" VERSUS BnT which is strictly SPDs & THE "setup" ruined their relationship. I'm not fan of T&B but I can stomach that story far better than BnT. (NT) -- Pilar, 14:48:39 03/17/01 Sat
    - And Pilar, notice how Blair says TODD set her up. She said to Todd something like, I could go to prison for 20 years because you set me up. She's not even blaming Max. She's blaming Todd for the whole thing. (NT) -- Elisa, 14:52:24 03/17/01 Sat
      - Elisa, the writing has been highly inconsistent ITA... however, Blair continually gets painted as unable or unwilling to accept a lick of responsibility or show any remorse for her lies/betrayals. Just like I don't buy Gina's spin/lies, I don't have to buy the crap that issues from Blair's mouth. Blair is NOT a voice of truth on this show, never has been. (NT) -- Pilar, 15:05:48 03/17/01 Sat
        Btw, between Roger's youthful looks, recent juvenile acting & writing paint Todd a "fool"... I find Todd coming across far more innocent, far LESS jaded & dark than Blair these days. He comes across more sympathetic creature, Poor Todd, I HATE that. (NT) -- Pilar, 15:10:12 03/17/01 Sat
        I guess whether or not Blair is the voice of truth is a matter of opinion, since I know almost every word out of her mouth is BS, but there are plenty of people out there who see everything from her perspective. Of course if I had more will-power and stopped visiting other boards, at least I wouldn't have to hear Blair's BS coming out of so many viewers' keyboards. (NT) -- Elisa, 15:36:37 03/17/01 Sat
        Haven't a clue how "many" or numbers of those "plenty" who see it from Blair's perspective or NOT. I can only speak from own experience, a B&Ber I talk to are just fed up w/Blair & Lindsay types getting away w/everything & never accepting blame for their actions. Offline Todd fans I speak w/are rolling their eyes at her "poor me" crap. (NT) -- Pilar, 09:14:28 03/18/01 Sun
        Elisa, I take ANY of �vocal online minority� spins w/a HUGE grain of salt especially after hearing they were lauding Kassie as an Emmy worthy actress! MAJORITY out there sure doesn�t think so, including her peers, as she�s never once been nominated! LOL! �LindaBlair� act was way over the top example of Kassie not understanding the word �subtle is better.� My point is I�ve learned talking to offliners that �online soap community� doesn�t always well-represent majority! (NT) -- Pilar, 09:41:45 03/18/01 Sun
        Pilar, I'd like to think you're right as to the quantity of people who are enjoying this stuff being very small. I get the impression from just the internet that a lot of ToddFirsters as well as most TnTers and even some of the more Todd-oriented T&Bers aren't loving this. As for offline fans, I only know my mother. She quit watching with me on 12/1/98 and tuned in for one scene when he returned in 6/00, thought the new version of Todd was just a jerk and hasn't watched since. (NT) -- Elisa, 14:29:52 03/18/01 Sun
        Elisa, I don't think it's a coincidence that "Hell No" was only spike in ratings in months of heavily promoted BnT NOR that Roger's ONLY critical acclaim from mags was for specter & Hell No weeks. I think those are CONCRETE signs Todd focused story w/depth rates much higher with MOST OLTL viewers than BnT crap. (NT) -- Pilar, 16:58:49 03/18/01 Sun
        I heard spin only TnTers were flooding soap mags w/anti-BnT letters but I still haven't gotten answered why then did SOD report calls for Todd & Skye!? Never bought only TnTers are unhappy, I'm definitely a Toddaholic, knows others like myself who have watched Todd thru ALL his pairings yet are tuning out. And overall show sucks so much nothing except Cris & Jen do I find bearable. (NT) -- Pilar, 17:06:30 03/18/01 Sun
        Elisa, I said it in January & will again now this story is wrecking Todd's popularity/appeal. Sad to see b/c for a couple of weeks including some riveting T&B jailhouse scenes, I think there was lots of positive buzz for Roger/Todd. (NT) -- Pilar, 17:09:31 03/18/01 Sun
        Pilar... I know that I am a "biased" TnTer, but I can certainly attest to the fact that "BnTrash" has definitely wrecked Todd's appeal for moi, the Todd phenom is no more, not HERE, not with ME! (NT) -- jackie, 03:56:50 03/19/01 Mon
        I guess the worst part is that it appears TODD buys into her blaming him for everything. One of the best examples of why they're not at all alike. Todd deep inside blames himself for everything, even stuff that is not his fault, whereas Blair feels guilty about nothing, and always puts the responsibility of her actions and the results of them on other people, especially Todd, probably because she knows he'll accept the guilt., whereas people like Max would just laugh it off. (NT) -- Elisa, 15:41:14 03/17/01 Sat
        Yes, Max does and would laugh it off and then throw it back in her face evoking passionate response from Blair. Why she "supposedly loves" Todd is she CAN control him, vs Max who has NEVER been under her heel. (NT) -- Pilar, 09:09:41 03/18/01 Sun
- If he would just ASK her if Marty would have "trusted" him alone with her if he'd never felt any remorse for the rape. At least then I 'd know the writers have a clue about what's really going on with this T&B relationship. But instead the writers are just like Blair, having her do all these bad things, and then giving her no responsibility, no remorse, and blaming it all on Todd's reactions to her betrayals. (NT) -- Elisa, 14:49:00 03/17/01 Sat
  - Elisa, but Blair is written way too shallow a character to understand deeper emotions like "remorse and guilt" - she never got the TnM bond before, and never will so it's pointless for Todd to try & explain yet again concepts she finds "completely foreign to her nature." Blair, like Max, is painted amoral and w/out a lick of conscience, NEITHER are showing any signs of remorse right? Again, B&M are really the ones ALIKE, just look at their recent reactions to getting caught for their crimes. (NT) -- Pilar, 15:15:10 03/17/01 Sat
    - I know she's too shallow to appreciate remorse, but I'd still like to see Todd tell it to her straight. I'd like to see him give her a parallel example maybe she could understand, like the rape thing, or maybe something like, "Blair, if Max didn't feel sorry for cheating on you with Skye, would you trust him not to do it again?" Blair would say, "Of course not, Todd." Then he could say, "That's why I can't trust you, Blair. Because you're not sorry for anything you've done." (NT) -- Elisa, 15:48:35 03/17/01 Sat
      - Yes, that's definitely the most annoying part, Todd buys into her BS, let's her make him internalize the blame. So that's the whole future now I guess. Blair does something bad to Todd, Todd reacts, Blair blames Todd for not trusting her, Todd takes all the guilt upon himself, Blair does something bad to Todd, Todd reacts . . . and so on . . . and so on . . . (NT) -- Elisa, 15:57:27 03/17/01 Sat
        ITA Pilar and Elisa. And Elisa ... sigh ... what a depressing thought - but I think you're right. The pattern of the B blaming Todd for HER crap is classic BnT which aggravates me. I blame the writers for showing this and not "dealing with it," for making Todd blind to it. People keep talking about the BnT "journey" to each other - but I don't see any such thing. I only see two squares trying to fit into the It's all about conclusion ... (NT) -- Cabbie Esq, 17:00:06 03/17/01 Sat
        oops ... I see two squares trying to force themselves into a "circle" called "love" and "family". I don't see anything but the conclusion of what SHOULD be some kind of journey THROUGH something - but, nope. It's "we belong together" ... "he LOVES me" ... "she WANTS me" ... "we want each other." There is nothing explaining how they got from contempt ("sexually repressed psychopath" and "pathetic clingy ex-wife") to ... THIS. (NT) -- Cabbie Esq, 17:09:09 03/17/01 Sat
        ..(cont.) There is nothing explaining why Todd is willing to accept someone who really doesn't care about HIM - who uses him - who never even asks him about HIM. I haven't heard her ONCE ask, "Where've you been, Todd, all this time? What's going on with YOU? Why are you acting SO damn out of character? (VBG)" But really - even the night of the Peculiar, did Blair ask Todd, "Was it good for you too?" I don't remember - and I don't think she did. Basically, she could care less. (NT) -- Cabbie Esq, 17:13:19 03/17/01 Sat
        Yes, Todd being blind to it is what is making it so awful for me. If Todd would just tell her that if she wants him to trust her she has to at least be sorry when she does bad things to him, and sincerely do her best not to do it again. But he doesn't ask that. He doesn't even mention it. So we're forced to watch her betray Todd, then his reaction, then his making amends for his reaction, when she's not willing to make amends for her own actions that caused the whole mess to begin with. (NT) -- Elisa, 17:31:12 03/17/01 Sat
        I'm clueless as to why anyone who loves Todd would want him stuck in this endless cycle with Blair. This is clearly a tragic story about a man who is an abuse sucker and a woman who loves to dish it out. Blair hands out all the guilt and Todd takes it all inside. There are moments where Todd gets fed up, and yes, he reacts in negative ways, but I'll take that anytime over what always happens next, pushing aside Blair's betrayal, trying to make amends for his reaction to it, and taking her back. (NT) -- Elisa, 17:46:43 03/17/01 Sat
        Cabbie, about the journey, I could comprehend people rooting for this couple if they were working through these behaviors, breaking this cycle, if Blair finally realized that it's her actions that always lead to Todd's destructive reactions, but that's not what I'm seeing out there. The people who are enjoying this couple seem to be enjoying them AS IS. I don't understand why anyone who loves Todd would enjoy watching someone treat him like crap and then put all the blame on him. Mind boggling. (NT) -- Elisa, 18:02:41 03/17/01 Sat
        Sorry I went off on a huge rant today, and called Todd an abuse sucker, gulp, but that's how I feel when I watch him let Blair walk all over him. Hell No week was so nice, hope that he'd finally had it with her crap, but no, they had to give her a loophole, and since they're focusing in only on the one thing she didn't do, Todd's lost his mind again and is forgetting all the stuff she did do. (NT) -- Elisa, 18:11:24 03/17/01 Sat
        Don't be sorry, Elisa, for calling a spade a spade, after all Malone set up Blair as �bad� one in original T&B relationship to "victimize" Todd as means to further redeem him. Malone wrote Blair repeatedly taking advantage of a VERY vulnerable Todd, who �sucked� up HER abuse until he snapped & retaliated. (NT) -- Pilar, 09:55:32 03/18/01 Sun
        ITA, it�s a vicious cycle but it goes from Max to Blair to Todd. Max emotionally abuses Blair, leaves her self-esteem in tatters but Max refuses in turn to be Blair�s victim, no matter how hard she tries to HURT him back, including attempted murder, she can�t seem to DAMAGE Max so she seeks out someone she CAN hurt, Todd. (NT) -- Pilar, 10:07:10 03/18/01 Sun
        In EACH BnT story, Todd�s self-esteem takes a major beating, damaging him further but why is that? Because a person typically becomes an abuser out of a desperate NEED to boost their own poor self-esteem by tearing down another�s! Blair derides Todd, places ALL blame for their failed relationships on him/his problems b/c she can�t look in the mirror & admit her own litany of faults� that would be admitting her image of herself is probably as bad as Todd�s of himself. (NT) -- Pilar, 10:20:02 03/18/01 Sun
        Pilar, you said that all so well. And you're so right about both Blair/Max and Blair/Todd. Max does treat Blair badly, affair with Skye under her nose for example, Blair shoots him, and what happened? Didn't seem to phase Max at all. So she moves to Todd, treats him badly, after his initial angry reaction she ends up convincing him it was all his fault, feels horrible inside, tries to make it up to her, and so on. It's painful for me to watch, and with no hope in sight, that's why I stopped. (NT) -- Elisa, 14:44:58 03/18/01 Sun
        I meant to say above that HE feels horrible inside. He falls back into the idea that he's a monster that can't have love and destroys every chance at it. Blair doesn't do that, no guilt at all that playing with Max and letting him in that night destroyed her chance at love with Todd. She never warns men not to get involved with her for fear that they'll end up hurt, like Todd did with T�a, and she's the one who's tried to kill two husbands. No, Todd and Blair are not much alike at all. (NT) -- Elisa, 14:58:07 03/18/01 Sun
        Elisa, bringing thread out since it was getting hard to read... yes, repeatedly Blair attempts & fails to strike back at Max. He's like Teflon & it drives her nuts, literally. Max's self-esteem just never submits to her abuse like Todd's does. You know Blair always needed for Todd to win "most pathetic contest" to boost her own dreadfully low self-esteem. She's in deep denial of her problems & what a bad person she truly has become. At least, Todd is capable of acknowledging he's very damaged. (NT) -- Pilar, 17:17:50 03/18/01 Sun
        Guilt appears to be a foreign concept to BOTH B&M now. Their wargames provide "thrills" vs deep remorse/anguish. Max has barely shown a lick of feeling for hurting Renee so deeply... and Blair doesn't bat an eyelash at almost murdering the husband she claimed to love. All is fair in love & war was invented for B&M's twisted characters. I don't know what happened to Max I enjoyed w/Luna, his soul is running on empty as is Blair's, really ugly, unlikeable creatures they've become. (NT) -- Pilar, 17:28:47 03/18/01 Sun
        Sad part is Todd is being lumped w/two terrible shallow excuses for characters rather than given a story worthy of his own deeper/damaged psyche. He's the juicy meat, sandwiched between two shallow slices of rotten bread that wrecks entire taste if you get my drift. The meat gets tainted by rotten outside. (NT) -- Pilar, 17:33:23 03/18/01 Sun