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Welcome to the 600 Micro Sprint USA Message Board. As of the 28th of June 2006 we have been forced to implement a new rule.YOU MUST HAVE A ACTIVE AND WORKING e-mail address in order to post.. The e-mails will be checked and if any are returned undeliverable, the post will be deleted. As of 11-2-2005 This board was deemed moderated and as of 8-8-02 you were no longer allowed to sell, there is a classified board for this. No foul language, bashing, of clubs, person's, officials or officers are allowed.We do have children visit our site.AS OF DEC.3RD THIS BOARD WILL BE TOTALLY MODERATED. WHEN YOU POST IT WON'T SHOW UNTIL IT IS OK'ED BY EITHER THIS OFFICE OR THE PRESIDENT. THIS OFFICE WILL CHECK AT APPROXIMATELY 4 PM EVERY DAY TO OK POST AND THE PRESIDENT WILL AS OFTEN AS HE CAN..
http://www.600microsprints.com/
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" goodluck -- paul, 09:44:13 11/04/06 Sat (client-66-116-35-117.consolidated.net/66.116.35.117)

Goodluck to all of these race tracks that have dropped the N.M.M.A.I hope you enjoy paying a ton to get the FAMILY into the pits, and to run 20 laps.Goodluck from spending a bundle to keep up with the big dogs$$$$$$$.I have been with the N.M.M.A since 1992 and I enjoyed racing at Marion,Peru,Waynecity,Camden.I and everyone else enjoyed meeting at least once a month with the families from these tracks,it was like a big family reunion,so much for that now!!!!!!I want to wish you luck and see you when you all return to the N.M.M.A when the light doesn't shine at the end of the tunnel.When this sport starts paying the bills,then maybe I will join the rest of the big dogs!!!!!Thank's Paul Day.

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[> Re: goodluck -- Andy Brink, 20:05:33 11/04/06 Sat (NoHost/12.206.94.197)

>Goodluck to all of these race tracks that have dropped
>the N.M.M.A.I hope you enjoy paying a ton to get the
>FAMILY into the pits, and to run 20 laps.Goodluck from
>spending a bundle to keep up with the big
>dogs$$$$$$$.I have been with the N.M.M.A since 1992
>and I enjoyed racing at Marion,Peru,Waynecity,Camden.I
>and everyone else enjoyed meeting at least once a
>month with the families from these tracks,it was like
>a big family reunion,so much for that now!!!!!!I want
>to wish you luck and see you when you all return to
>the N.M.M.A when the light doesn't shine at the end of
>the tunnel.When this sport starts paying the
>bills,then maybe I will join the rest of the big
>dogs!!!!!Thank's Paul Day.

Where are you getting this load of crap from. The guys racing outlaw are just as freindly and helpful as the guys racing nmma are. There are a whole lot more outlaw tracks to choose from. For the most of us this is a fun hobby not a paying job. I didnt make any money when i raced the nmma tracks last year or outlaw tracks the last 4 years. It is nice to have a track willing to get sponcership and have a decent pay out. As for having a high dollar motor to run with the big dogs you have to have this with a nmma track or outlaw. It cost me just as much money to get the family into my local tracks (outlaw) as it does to get into sweet springs with out having to pay $75 to join the nmma and $25 to join the track club.

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[> Re: goodluck -- DAVE ROBINSON, 20:29:24 11/04/06 Sat (DHCP-74-134-105-186.insightbb.com/74.134.105.186)

I do not think one mans opinion is crap.. I do think it is very sad that all the tracks are leaveing, I have raced at all the NMMA tracks from Sweet springs to Peru to Draffenville.. there are really some nice people out there... I have also went to outlaw races and still meet some very nice people.....Yes the NMMA needs to do some changes ,but outlaw tracks are not what everybody thinks they are either... just my opinion..... hope everybody finds what there lookin for and have a good time racin.... David Robinson R 732

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[> Re: goodluck -- Richard Smith, 17:46:54 11/05/06 Sun (static-71-98-119-29.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net/71.98.119.29)

Glad to know that cuz after your stunt with the Peru car at Nationals I can tell you that most of the Peru guys dont want to race with you.

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[> [> Re:Stop Using My Name !!! -- The real Richard Smith, 05:24:45 11/06/06 Mon (supreme2.wireless.maplenet.net/64.255.97.89)

I did not post that message some one is uning my name pleas prmove that post I too whoever is using my name Grow Up and use your own name Sorry PAUL SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST....
Richard Smith

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[> [> [> Re:Stop Using My Name !!! -- Richard Smith, 10:34:04 11/06/06 Mon (static-71-98-119-28.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net/71.98.119.28)

>I did not post that message some one is uning my name
>pleas prmove that post I too whoever is using my name
>Grow Up and use your own name Sorry PAUL SOME PEOPLE
>ARE JUST....
>Richard Smith



Thats funny Richard Smith is what it says on my birth certificate. Could of swore its what I sign my name as everytime I get a pit pass.

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[> [> [> [> Re:Stop Using My Name !!! -- Julie, 10:54:16 11/06/06 Mon (static-69-95-200-200.ind.choiceone.net/69.95.200.200)

Now THAT'S funny!!!

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[> Re: goodluck -- Jake, 09:43:04 11/06/06 Mon (ws151191.housing-ec.siu.edu/131.230.151.191)

I don't know about you Paul, but I don't enjoy running with 5 cars a night. And congrats on your Nat Championship, but what's it mean anymore, it's like being the national champion of 15 people. The NMMA's down to 2 tracks......how long will it be before it's 1?......maybe a year, maybe even half a year.....when they can start changing rules a little more to accomadate us, the racer, and can figure out how to get tracks back, then they'll be alright, but until then, they're shooting themselves in the foot.

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[> [> Re: goodluck -- Richard Kreisel, 12:30:50 11/07/06 Tue (mo-69-68-210-36.sta.embarqhsd.net/69.68.210.36)

I hear what you guys are saying. Jake, can you give a couple examples of rules that could/should be changed a little more to accomodate the racer?

The approach this year has been to "expand" the rules a bit; 1) Opening up the Multi Class Wing Rule, 2) Widening the rear tread width and 3) Changing the engine formula to allow fuel injected engines to run the A & NW classes with carburetors.

What do you think of this approach?

Richard Kreisel
Region 11 Chairman

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[> [> [> Re: goodluck -- Jake, 17:16:35 11/07/06 Tue (ws151191.housing-ec.siu.edu/131.230.151.191)

the elimination of all judgement calls, open up the multi's to 636's, reduce the amount of rules and STICK TO THEM, eliminate VISIBLE favoritism from the heads of the organization (i realize there will always be some sort of favoritism)......just a fw of my opinions, I do think they took a step in the right direction, but is it too little too late?

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[> [> [> [> Re: goodluck -- Wayne, 19:39:21 11/07/06 Tue (client-216-176-88-170.consolidated.net/216.176.88.170)

>the elimination of all judgement calls, open up the
>multi's to 636's, reduce the amount of rules and STICK
>TO THEM, eliminate VISIBLE favoritism from the heads
>of the organization (i realize there will always be
>some sort of favoritism)......just a fw of my
>opinions, I do think they took a step in the right
>direction, but is it too little too late?

My thinking is this, Lets turn the "MULTI" class into an "OUTLAW" class and them boys spend as much money as they want. I don't have the money to run like that, but some people do and thats O.K. Its their choice. I would love to see them run. Keep the A class, Rest class, NW class, and of course the Jr class. I'm not against the 250s, but it looks like it takes alot of work on those as far maint is concerned. But if people want to run them, I say find a way to run them. Just my thinking. Thanks

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[> Re: goodluck -- paul, 16:22:38 11/06/06 Mon (client-66-116-35-117.consolidated.net/66.116.35.117)

Jake,I appreciate your comment,I do believe though i won the championship this year against some very good drivers at coles county, and at the Easterns where they had a good car count,Region1 region2,Illinois state,Indiana state,and the nationals and the memorial races.We at least 18 cars at these,and coles county had 10 but usually 15 or more a night.I do agree that the N.M.M.A needs to do as you wrote.
Jake,I enjoyed running with you we had a lot of fun.Iam sure will finish 1, 2 again some day.

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" Miami County Speedway 2007 -- Dwayne, 16:25:25 11/03/06 Fri (static-66-14-202-160.bdsl.verizon.net/66.14.202.160)

The Management of the Miami County Speedway Peru In has decided not to sanction races with the NMMA for 2007

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[> Re: Miami County Speedway 2007 -- DAVE ROBINSON, 20:32:14 11/04/06 Sat (DHCP-74-134-105-186.insightbb.com/74.134.105.186)

Really sorry to see you go, hope to see you guys agian someday.. thanks for what you have did while you in the Org....

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" Western VP -- Webmasters Office, 08:51:13 11/03/06 Fri (12-207-154-145.client.mchsi.com/12.207.154.145)

From: "Randy Patchett"
To: LAE48@aol.com

Subject: Re: 2007 Ballot Count

Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 10:32:34 -0600
Loretta, Ballot count for 2007 Election
Lanny Harvey 14
Dean Hathman 87
Tracy Ledger 19
Write in Steve Grossenbacher 1

From:
Patchett Law Office

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" Wanting some info -- Tom Kintner, 12:41:49 10/28/06 Sat (pool-71-114-172-16.trrhin.dsl-w.verizon.net/71.114.172.16)

Hello

i live in west central indiana. i was wanting info on micro midget racing. we race quarter midgets now ,my daughter is 8 and wanting to advance into something else in the future. just wandering if there are any good sites to get info on clubs in my surrounding area. any classsifieds? thanks in advance

Tom

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[> Re: Wanting some info -- connie, 18:59:00 10/28/06 Sat (static-66-14-202-160.bdsl.verizon.net/66.14.202.160)

Try www.miamicountyspeedway.com Track located in Peru, Indiana

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[> Re: Wanting some info -- jc hopper, 00:24:48 11/02/06 Thu (DHCP-74-135-175-2.insightbb.com/74.135.175.2)

Hey, Tom......check the "Links" on the NMMA webpage and click on CCMMRA. It is one of the best 1/8 mile clay tracks around. You said you're in W-Cental Indiana. CCMMRA is in E-Central Illinois. MaryEllen Harris or Loretta Esworthy would be glad to fill you in. Or I can tell you about CCMMRA if you wish. Here is the "short" course.... CCMMRA is halfway between Charleston and Mattoon, Illinois. We have had lots of racers from 1/4 Midgets, go carts, and other venues "grow" thru here on their way to other forms of open wheel racing. Season is from 1st Saturday in May to the last Saturday in September.

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[> Re: Wanting some info -- jc hopper, 00:29:08 11/02/06 Thu (DHCP-74-135-175-2.insightbb.com/74.135.175.2)

Hello, Tom.......sorry I may have misled you, the more links lists CCMMRA as Coles Co. Speedway..... But that will get you a look at the things there. Good luck! jc

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[> Re: Wanting some info -- Blane, 07:43:39 11/03/06 Fri (DHCP-74-129-245-22.insightbb.com/74.129.245.22)

I would try the website, www.maximumdirt.com this site has all of the Indiana Tracks and a lot of Illinois tracks, as well as a few Michigan and Ohio tracks

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" 07 RULE CHANGES -- JAY JOHNSON, 08:01:53 11/02/06 Thu (CPE-75-81-110-31.kc.res.rr.com/75.81.110.31)

JUST GOT BACK FROM OKLAHOMA, THERE TWO TRACK's LOVE THE NEW NMMA RULE CHANGES!!

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" Wing Rules for 2007 --- confused -- Bill Meredith, 11:59:10 10/09/06 Mon (kcpgw-vip1.kcp.com/198.62.69.76)

Reviewing the new Multi (and Single) Class wing rules for 2007 has me troubled. It appears that we (the NMMA) have changed our wing rules in an attempt to have more “outlaw” teams come and compete in NMMA races. However; my impression is we will fail to accomplish this and in turn cost the current and future NMMA supporters more money due to another poorly conceived, poorly written and overly complicated rule package that had little to no input from the current NMMA membership.

The new rules (allowing longer sideboards, offset sideboards, etc…) do NOT conform to the majority of the wings the “outlaw” teams are using. My experience with “outlaw” wings are that they have 54” sideboards with up to a 12” offset front to back. Also, the right sideboard (the ‘short’ board) is 20” to 24” tall. According to the 2007 NMMA rules (as written on this website) these “outlaw” wings will NOT be legal due to the sideboard height. Also, the offset sideboards will not allow the “outlaw” wing to be adjusted forward and backward much (if any). The NMMA also retains the maximum of 4” below the rollcage rule, but we add the phrase “at any wing position” – what exactly does that mean and how do you plan to tech that?

The new rules will allow NMMA to run bigger airfoils and longer sideboards (which will cost you around $50 to $100 MORE per wing than the 2006 NMMA legal wings) and will allow you to hook your car up easier. Between the expense of the wings and the added horsepower needed - this will DRIVE the cost to compete UP!! Once again, we have created rules without thought for future cost ramifications.

When are we (the NMMA) going to figure out that the reason people leave our organization (go ‘outlaw’ ) is because of poorly conceived, poorly written and improperly enforced rules such as these new wing specification? We have taken what could have been SIMPLE and we again COMPLICATED it with no benefit to the membership.

We NEED rules to contain costs and they need to be SIMPLE and easily techable! There was absolutely NO reason to change the 48” sideboard length rule that the NMMA has had since wings were originally allowed. There is NO reason to allow anything more than a 14 square foot wing on a Micro (16 + square feet is just crazy!!). In fact, a 10 square foot wing with 48” sides would be PERFECT for ALL classes with the exception of the Jr. Sprints.

These new wing rules again show that the Micro Sprint community (not just the NMMA) is NOT looking to the future cost effectiveness of this sport. We are NOT learning from the missteps of other sanctioning bodies (sprint cars). Instead, we are letting engine builders, tire manufacturers and wing builders dictate the economics of our sport.

I dream of the good old days when you could take your Micro, go coast to coast and know you were legal (racing under the NMMA banner) and still be competitive. With the failings of this organization – those days will be hard fought to return in the future! We the racers have NO ONE to blame but ourselves, since WE are the NMMA! Basically, we have forgotten why we race these cars (Hint: its NOT and shouldn’t be for the prize money!).

The saga continues.

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[> Re: Wing Rules for 2007 --- confused -- BOB, 20:53:07 10/09/06 Mon (ppp-69-148-163-36.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net/69.148.163.36)

>Reviewing the new Multi (and Single) Class wing rules
>for 2007 has me troubled. It appears that we (the
>NMMA) have changed our wing rules in an attempt to
>have more “outlaw” teams come and compete in NMMA
>races. However; my impression is we will fail to
>accomplish this and in turn cost the current and
>future NMMA supporters more money due to another
>poorly conceived, poorly written and overly
>complicated rule package that had little to no input
>from the current NMMA membership.
>
>The new rules (allowing longer sideboards, offset
>sideboards, etc…) do NOT conform to the majority of
>the wings the “outlaw” teams are using. My experience
>with “outlaw” wings are that they have 54” sideboards
>with up to a 12” offset front to back. Also, the
>right sideboard (the ‘short’ board) is 20” to 24”
>tall. According to the 2007 NMMA rules (as written on
>this website) these “outlaw” wings will NOT be legal
>due to the sideboard height. Also, the offset
>sideboards will not allow the “outlaw” wing to be
>adjusted forward and backward much (if any). The NMMA
>also retains the maximum of 4” below the rollcage
>rule, but we add the phrase “at any wing position” –
>what exactly does that mean and how do you plan to
>tech that?
>
>The new rules will allow NMMA to run bigger airfoils
>and longer sideboards (which will cost you around $50
>to $100 MORE per wing than the 2006 NMMA legal wings)
>and will allow you to hook your car up easier.
>Between the expense of the wings and the added
>horsepower needed - this will DRIVE the cost to
>compete UP!! Once again, we have created rules
>without thought for future cost ramifications.
>
>When are we (the NMMA) going to figure out that the
>reason people leave our organization (go ‘outlaw’ ) is
>because of poorly conceived, poorly written and
>improperly enforced rules such as these new wing
>specification? We have taken what could have been
>SIMPLE and we again COMPLICATED it with no benefit to
>the membership.
>
>We NEED rules to contain costs and they need to be
>SIMPLE and easily techable! There was absolutely NO
>reason to change the 48” sideboard length rule that
>the NMMA has had since wings were originally allowed.
>There is NO reason to allow anything more than a 14
>square foot wing on a Micro (16 + square feet is just
>crazy!!). In fact, a 10 square foot wing with 48”
>sides would be PERFECT for ALL classes with the
>exception of the Jr. Sprints.
>
>These new wing rules again show that the Micro Sprint
>community (not just the NMMA) is NOT looking to the
>future cost effectiveness of this sport. We are NOT
>learning from the missteps of other sanctioning bodies
>(sprint cars). Instead, we are letting engine
>builders, tire manufacturers and wing builders dictate
>the economics of our sport.
>
>I dream of the good old days when you could take your
>Micro, go coast to coast and know you were legal
>(racing under the NMMA banner) and still be
>competitive. With the failings of this organization –
>those days will be hard fought to return in the
>future! We the racers have NO ONE to blame but
>ourselves, since WE are the NMMA! Basically, we have
>forgotten why we race these cars (Hint: its NOT and
>shouldn’t be for the prize money!).
>
>The saga continues.
YOU replyed to a WING ISSUE on sweetsprings site about NOSE WINGS on "R" class/"A" class LOOK WHOS CRYING NOW!!! ITS A RULE/// RIGHT BILL,Just move your wing back and forth and that will give you your traction (BE CREATIVE)

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[> [> BOB, We sure don't have to worry about "traction" with these new rules!! -- Bill Meredith, 09:04:16 10/10/06 Tue (kcpgw-vip1.kcp.com/198.62.69.76)

I don't believe I am "crying".

As a competitor in the Multi Class, I am concerned with the direction of our sport in regards to engine costs and costing the loyal NMMA racer MONEY for larger wings!!! As a Wing Builder, I am questioning WHY we created wing rules that do not appear to accomplish the Joe Smiley quoted goal of bringing in more "outlaw" teams to NMMA races. If that is crying - I guess I am guilty, but THINK about what I am saying in regards to cost containment. Look at the history of the NMMA (micro racing in general) regarding class structure and WHY we kept creating classes in the past (the existing classes were deemed "too expensive" and a new class would be formed!).

In regards to the new Multi Class wing rules (the subject of the original post) – I don’t see your point of how that applies to the removal of the nose wing on the A and R Classes. Yes, I did respond to the question on the Sweet Springs site about the removal of the nose wings and Yes, I do NOT disagree with the idea of removing nose wings from the lower budget “stock” classes in the name of COST SAVINGS!!!! Anything we can do to loosen up those cars and reduce the influence of money spent on engines is a GOOD thing for the future of our sport! That is why I am really confused about the NMMA removing the rule requiring the 40 durometer LR tire in those classes.

As far as my post about Multi Wings – once again – I am interested in COST CONTAINMENT!!! Look – I stand to make a decent amount of money building these new NMMA legal wings next year, but I DO NOT agree with costing the NMMA racer an extra $80 to $100 for the wing and costing the racer even more in engine costs. This is money that we do not need to spend and will only HURT micro racing in the future! Engine costs are going up and we do not seem concerned about it - it just makes no sense why we continue to make it easier to HOOK the cars up tighter and thus perpetuate this engine spending! It will not be too much longer before membership is wanting ANOTHER class that is more cost effective – it happens about every three to five years!

My original point is VALID – these new wing rules will NOT bring in many (if any) ‘outlaw’ racers, because the 2007 NMMA wing specs do NOT match up to the majority of ‘outlaw’ wing dimensions. So again I ask --- WHY DID WE CHANGE THESE SPECS? What have we accomplished other than costing the LOYAL NMMA supporters more money?

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[> Re: Wing Rules for 2007 --- confused -- Joe Smiley EVP, 21:37:28 10/09/06 Mon (host-65-7-68-12.bna.bellsouth.net/65.7.68.12)

>Bill there was more thought and input put into this rule
than you know about.The only part of your post I will respond to is the 4in.below cage in any position rule.
You should know about this being into wings as you are.
The Multi's would be leagal in staging and after entering the track would move their wing forward and be ILLEGAL
then move it back to the legal position before crossing
the scales and going to impound.
This rule gives the Referee the right to have them move
the wing to the most forward position before teching the wing position.
I as a referee put this rule proposal in and it passed.
Thanks Joe Smiley EVP

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[> [> You make my point!!!! -- Bill Meredith, 09:20:31 10/10/06 Tue (kcpgw-vip1.kcp.com/198.62.69.76)

Thanks Joe, you just made my point!

Regarding the 4" rule and the "outlaw" guys - most "outlaw" tracks don't have that rule, thus their right sideboards are HUGE (up to 24") so how and why exactly do we expect them to come run with us with our little 18" tall board and 4" rule? They will have to change their side boards, change their wing mounting (taller wing trees) and loose their 8" to 12" of sidepanel offset. Why not just have them use a 2006 NMMA legal 48" sideboard wing - seems a lot simpler?

You all just cost the LOYAL NMMA supporter a good chunk of money with these new rules if he/she feels that they HAVE to have a 54" sidepanel wing to compete!

I honestly do not believe these new wing rules accomplish the original intent. Take a look around at the wings being used at the 'outlaw' tracks - look at the photos of the Oklahoma Multis (Port City), Pennsylvania and POWRi cars. Look at the Hyper Racing Wings, Stallard Racing Wings, Wing Dynamics, etc... catalogs and you will see the "HOT" setup in 'outlaw' wings do NOT meet the new NMMA criteria (they have taller sideboards and huge offsets).

So what have we accomplished?

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[> Sideboard Sizes -- Richard Kreisel, 08:53:19 10/11/06 Wed (mo-69-68-210-36.sta.embarqhsd.net/69.68.210.36)

Bill,

There is no side board limitation on the Multi & Single Class wings under the new rule for 2007. Rule 1920.29 was amended to read:

"GENERAL WING RULES
1990.29
Wings are mandatory except in the non-wing class. The wing cannot extend beyond the tires as driven (see below & Page 60/61 for measurement details).

Minimum 12” tall car number must be displayed on side board. All wings must have a minimum 1/16” radius, no raw edges. No exposed wood or wood products to be used in the wing. The rib and spar within the center section (airfoil) may have wood products. Wings cannot be more than 4 inches below top of roll cage in any wing position.

Wings will be mandatory to enter the nights event. Only exception will be in case of a rollover, car can run the night without a wing if a backup is not available. It is recommended for top wings to be pinned for easy removal in case of driver injury.

If a nose wing is used, it must be installed so as not to obstruct the driver’s vision. The nose wing must carry the same car number as the body nose.

MEASUREMENT DETAILS:
Measure wing placement with a straight edge on outside of tires, in front of front tires and in back of rear tires. If any part of the wing is out past the tires, the car is illegal. This will be measured at the scale or a flat surface as the car comes off the track."

The wing rule applying specifically to wings run in the Multi & Single Classes is:

"1975.1 (b & c) - “applying to both S-Class & M-Class”

Cars may run any size top wing. No part of the wing (including but not limited to the center section, sideboards, or bracing) may extend beyond the tires as driven. All other wing specifications apply as noted in Rule 1990.29.

MEASUREMENT DETAILS:
Left to Right (Side to Side) – Measure with a straight edge on outside of tires (Page 60).
Front to Back – Measure with a straight edge perpendicular to the ground, in front of front tires and in back of back tires (Page 61).

If any part of the wing is beyond these measurements, the car is illegal. This will be measured at the scale or a flat surface as the car comes off the track.

Nose Wings
If a nose wing is used, the center section may not exceed 18” x 24” with sideboards no larger than 9” tall x 21” long."

In order to address your comments regarding offset and mounting of the outlaw wings, I have taken the liberty to measure my 2002 Factor 1 race car. Measurements were taken with the following tires on the car: 61" Hoosier LR, 69" Hoosier RR, 57" Hoosier LF, 60" Hoosier RF. The distance from the front of the front tire to the rear of the rear tire on the left side measures 76", the right side measures 78". A wing with a 54" long sideboard and 12" offset (front to rear) will effectively be 66" long. A wing with these sideboard dimensions could be mounted and adjusted fore & aft at least 10" without exceeding the 76" dimension.

The 4" below the rollcage rule is a topic that would need to be debated separately.

Richard Kreisel
Region 11 Chairman

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[> [> Re: Sideboard Sizes -- Bill Meredith, 10:10:05 10/11/06 Wed (kcpgw-vip1.kcp.com/198.62.69.76)

Richard: Thanks for clearing that up. The verbiage for rule 1990.29 is incorrect as written on this websites homepage for the 2007 rules changes - it still says 18" and 24" tall panels so hopefully you see my confusion and frustration. This stuff needs to be 100% correct before being posted on this site - people are already preparing for next year.

I agree that the 4" rules needs to be looked at - very few offset, large right sideboard wings will meet that requirement "at all wing positions" with the current wing trees and NMMA specified fore/aft requirement.

I understand the point of forward and aft movement of the wing (most outlaw wings are about 62" total length due to the 12" offset boards. If you look at how a wing with those dimensions will need to be mounted on the car (way forward) I still don't see why the outlaw guys would be real interested in changing all their mounts to meet these rules - heck my 48" sideboard wing with no offset is within a few inches of being illegal (to the LR rear tire) when I have it setup for the feature. Put 12" of offset in it and it is way illegal.

Are we measuring the RIGHT sideboard (this is the one that is offset BACK on the car) against the LR tire or the RR tire? There is about a 2" difference. Measuring the Right Sideboard to the LR tire would be quite a trick, but I can think of a few people who would try if it meant DQing certain people.

I guess my next question would be - can a racer run the wing back (illegal position) during the race then move it to a legal fore/aft position (with a wing motor) before exiting the track - is that legal? - I guarantee that is what guys will do since the rule states "as it comes off the track".

As a wing builder, I am just trying to get clarification as to what I should be building for next year. You have cleared up some of the issues, but many questions remain.

I remain convinced that these new rules will only cost the LOYAL NMMA supporters money and have additional cost ramifications (higer priced wings and added engine costs) that few of you understand at this point!

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[> Re: NMMA needs to establish I.D. -- Ray Vander Wielen, 15:59:39 10/11/06 Wed (NoHost/70.151.181.61)

I no longer race in the NMMA because there are no tracks in TN.I race at Clarksville TN in basically a Outlaw class,618cc, rear tire rules (25 RR and 20 LR compounts in AR) 12sq wings with 24x54 max side boards and NMMA chassis and safety equipment rules. I have been to the PowrI races twice,and it wasn't for the money, it was to race with the best in the country and for the chance, slim as it may be to make the main. We racers are a competive breed, and jump at the oppertunities to say I ran with So and So. The NMMA doesn't have that stigma any more for what ever reason and to get the big dogs back is going to require bigger purses.I believe that the NNMA needs to look at its self and decide who they are going to cater to and go forward from there.Set our "multi" class up to work with a majority of other outlaws and if they come great! The balance of the classes need to cater to the membership in general being R,NW,A and Jr's with stock motors and spec. tires. Where most of the problems come from, is this organization has been in constant change due to members trying to make a class that "they" can win in without spending money. I know from personal experience that the outlaw thing will cool down as "we" realize we can't afford to run with those guys. The NMMA needs to steadfast and solid to accept these racers and be a competive organization.I think rather than fosusing on getting the outlaws to come to us we need to look at when they have had enough of the outlaw thing how easy is it to come and race with the NMMA. Are there any tracks to run at?Can I just pay $10.00 more entry fee and run without being in the points thing just race for the fun of it.The majority of the racing community does not have unlimited funds, those that do are looking to run the money races or high profile events to advance careers and that isn't what most of us are about.Focus on getting tracks even if only 2 or 3 events a summer,make it more one timer friendly for the guy who would like to stop by a track and give the NMMA a try without being a member. If you build it they will come. Be more tract owner friendly,they don't need us we need them and quit changing the rules.Make good rules and that is it for 3 years, not change every year, there is no stability in that, have a rules committie to look at them once every three years and be done with it. No other racing organization does this, letting members make the rules, that is sooo sand lot!

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[> Re: Wing Rules for 2007 --- confused -- JAY JOHNSON, 07:47:10 11/02/06 Thu (CPE-75-81-110-31.kc.res.rr.com/75.81.110.31)

After talking with part/car builders in oklahoma , there two tracks are very happy with the nmma rule changes for 07. every major rule change cost money. then the next years rules come out back to the last years rules! Good example.... 06 left rear tire rule very good cost saving and did not hurt the racing . now change back to 05 rules. now the nmma want to mess with the top @ nose wings,
more money that as a car owner could be used to attend and support other tracks WITH THE SAME RULES !!Also why does the NMMA change the rules on two classes for the betterment of the top class! if you dont race in a class why in the heck should they take away from the A @ R classes JUST to show the differance! Maybe a name chage for the multis like "OUTLAW 600's" {TOOK THIS FROM THE SHOOT OUT] would help set the three classes apart

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" Hoosier Racers Swap Meet & Trade Show 7 -- Craig Dori, 14:39:56 11/01/06 Wed (cache-mtc-ac03.proxy.aol.com/64.12.116.132)

The Hoosier Racers Swap Meet & Trade Show 7 January 27, 2007!! This swap meet/trade show will bring together local racers, professional racers, racing business's (manufacturers & dealers), race tracks, and sanctioning bodies with thousands of potential customers... All in one day... All under one roof!!! Making it the BIGGEST pure Racers show in the Midwest! By Far!!!

ONE HUGE BUILDING will be greeting vendors and patrons alike when they arrive! The 67,000 Sq. Ft. Champions Pavilion @ the Indiana State Fairgrounds will now be our home! The move to Indy has proved to be a very popular one as last years show had over 300 booths in 2 buildings. Now, the completely renovated ($8 million worth) and modern Champions Pavilion, will be able to accomodate everyone together! Along with all the modern amenities of this first class facility, the building also holds meeting rooms available for product seminars, promoters, sanctioning bodies, or race shops (call for availability)!!

A bigger show means even more "attractions"! Back by popular demand will be the Racin' W/D.O. "Legends Roundtable" presented by H.A.R.F.! Then you'll want to stick around for the Indy Race Parts "Ms. Hoosier Motorsports Pageant" followed by "Last Ditch Auction" presented by Charter Sailing Unlimited!! The "Last Ditch Auction" is just what it's called, a "Last Ditch" chance to unload your... we'll just say Stuff! This will be a quick NO RESERVE auction hosted by H.A.R.F. Hall Of Famer and Auctioneer extraordinaire, Butch Wilkerson (R.D. Butch Wilkerson auction license: AU01034606). For a very small fee we will send your parts, cars, engines, whatever it is that you just want to get rid of and not go home with (please no wives or drivers:) through the auction line and hopefully get you a little more $!! No walk-in consignments will be accepted, nust be a vendor at the show.
Check back for more details on the Roundtable and Pageant!

So if your a local racer wanting to unload a few parts, or a manufacturer of the best racing chassis ever, you''ll want to participate in this show! Last year we had vendors from 11 States, and as far away as Georgia making it a sell-out 5 years running!!.. Don't miss-out on the 2nd "Don't Miss" event of the new year (Chili Bowl is first:), The Hoosier Racers Swap Meet & Trade Show 7!

Here's who is already booked for this year's show.. Get your entry in and join this stellar field!:
Accu-Force Shock Dynos, Arizona Sprint Shirts/Gotta Race, John Batts, BDR Graphics, Carrara Custom Powder Coaters, CK Designs, Competition Welding, Cyclone Custom Products, DAK Simulators, Joe Dooling, David Fuhrman, Funk Racing, Gamester Racing Products (GRP), Eddie Griffith, H.A.R.F., Matt Hardin, Impact Racing, Indianaopenwheel.com, Indy Performance Composites, Indy Race Parts, Intense Motorsports, KC Components, Kercher Engines, Ted Knorr, Kokomo Speedway, Jimmy Laser, Lawson Motorsports, Lawrenceburg Speedway (RPM Promotions), Leaders Edge, M/R Racing Equipment, Jim Mann, Jay Mason, R & R Wireloom, Racin' W/D.O., Rapp's Racing Products, Reel Racing Photos, Sprint Mart, Mike Stuchell, T and D Toys & Hobby, Turner Racing, U.S. 24 Speedway, Preston Windom Racing
Get your entry in today!!

For complete details please visit our newly designed website @ : www.shoestringracing.com
Where you can now reserve by credit card online!!! You can also get a copy of the show flyer and a registration form for the Pageant! If there is something on the site you didn't catch or we just didn't cover, please call us: 317-381-9931 or write info@shoestringracing.com
Thanks, and we look forward to seeing you at the Hoosier Racers Swap Meet & Trade Show 7!

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" Who are these guys and what do they stand for??? -- Bill Meredith, 20:08:11 10/17/06 Tue (adsl-69-152-39-236.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net/69.152.39.236)

Ok, I see three names running for Western VP, but I have only seen Dean Hathman's write-up in the Pit Stop.

I know who Dean is and what he has done in the past. I believe he needs to voice his thoughts for the future of the NMMA and how he plans to help us in that direction, but at least he wrote up something.

So who are these other two guys? What do they believe in and how are they going to move the NMMA forward?

Mr. Harvey, Mr. Ledger - do you really want this job? This is your time to convince us you are the right man and please let us know your views on the future, not just your past!

Thanks!

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[> Re: Who are these guys and what do they stand for??? -- Lanny Harvey, 09:59:19 10/19/06 Thu (NoHost/204.120.195.43)

My name as you can see is Lanny Harvey and have been racing micro midgets for 34 yrs. I believe my car was the first car to win a championship race in a 4 cyl. 600. We won the Texas State Championship with Pete Frazier, Mike Gigot and several others so we were not battling a bunch of nobodies.

If everyone would go back to the rule proposals for this year, you will see the rule proposal that I put in for combining A & Multi classes with little or no teching required. Also smaller wings (10 ft.) and back to the narrow right rears so we could put the driver back in our sport instead of using the tires and wings as a crutch. My proposal was to allow any carbs/injection on any motor for these two classes up 600cc. I feel we have to standardize our sport instead of going off in all the different tangents that we seem to be doing. Keep the Restrictor class the way it is and again allow the same motor rules as A and Multi Class for the Non-Wing class.
I know that everyone wants big purses but this is not USAC or WOO or Nextel Cup. It is a small hobby class of racing that does give some people a good start towards these other types of racing. I feel we need to keep our entry fees and pit fees reasonable so we can attract all types of racers not just the high dollar boys.(Pardon me and girls.) If you want the big purses, etc. then I am probably not the one for the job as that is a job for each individual promoter. I have been pushing for temp memberships so non members can come run a race for a minimal fee.

I have been in the NMMA for 30+ years and want to see it come back so I feel we have to be progressive but in a lot of ways we need to stay the same, such as staying a family sport for those who wish it to be such. I know we have to change but not as drastically as some people think. I would like to see some of these people that put all their comments on this and other boards, step up and take part in the management of the NMMA instead of setting back and complaining about how it is run. We still have the most copied and used rules of ANYONE! Granted they are not perfect but they could be if we can get progressive board memebers. Remember, the rules voted on by the board are the very ones that the members submit. If the members want a dictatorship board then they need to submit such a rule proposal.

Enough said, if you want to vote for me, I will do my best to keep this organization running and improving.

>Ok, I see three names running for Western VP, but I
>have only seen Dean Hathman's write-up in the Pit Stop.
>
>I know who Dean is and what he has done in the past.
>I believe he needs to voice his thoughts for the
>future of the NMMA and how he plans to help us in that
>direction, but at least he wrote up something.
>
>So who are these other two guys? What do they believe
>in and how are they going to move the NMMA forward?
>
>Mr. Harvey, Mr. Ledger - do you really want this job?
> This is your time to convince us you are the right
>man and please let us know your views on the future,
>not just your past!
>
>Thanks!

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[> [> Re: Who are these guys and what do they stand for??? -- Ray Vander Wielen, 16:32:57 10/19/06 Thu (NoHost/70.151.181.61)

I'm a none member (don't have a NMMA track within driving distance)now but enjoyed being a member when we had a track in TN. I would like to pose a few questions. #1.What do you think needs to be done to get more tracks into the organization? I think the temporary permit to make the NMMA more outsider freindly is a huge step in the right direction but what about none sanctioned tracks? #2. Would you support and impliment to have the rules changed or revised only every three years by a elected rules committee to stablize the NMMA. Seems like it is kinda "sand lot" know with rules changing year to year I.E. CDI boxes,sensers,... would hate to upgrade this year as it may be illegal next year kind of thing. Just some thoughts, I also think the members should be asking some questions, so they can be informed voters and base thier vote on the canidates vision for the future of the organization.

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[> [> [> Re: Who are these guys and what do they stand for??? -- Lanny Harvey, 10:07:11 10/20/06 Fri (NoHost/204.120.195.43)

Changing the rules every 3 yrs sounds good to me however, we have to consider that the board cannot radically change the rules without rule proposals from the members. I suggest that interested members should get together and combine their efforts to present good comprehensive rule proposals. As far as getting more tracks back to the folds is one of the reasons why I submitted the rule proposal to combine the A and Multi Class so that we would not have all the bickering about teching stock motors. If it was generalized for everyone, we wouldn't have the teching problem.

Anyone that wants to call me and ask me questions is welcome to. My phone no. is 620-275-9463.

>I'm a none member (don't have a NMMA track within
>driving distance)now but enjoyed being a member when
>we had a track in TN. I would like to pose a few
>questions. #1.What do you think needs to be done to
>get more tracks into the organization? I think the
>temporary permit to make the NMMA more outsider
>freindly is a huge step in the right direction but
>what about none sanctioned tracks? #2. Would you
>support and impliment to have the rules changed or
>revised only every three years by a elected rules
>committee to stablize the NMMA. Seems like it is kinda
>"sand lot" know with rules changing year to year I.E.
>CDI boxes,sensers,... would hate to upgrade this year
>as it may be illegal next year kind of thing. Just
>some thoughts, I also think the members should be
>asking some questions, so they can be informed voters
>and base thier vote on the canidates vision for the
>future of the organization.

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[> Re: Who are these guys and what do they stand for??? -- Joe Smiley EVP, 17:54:27 10/19/06 Thu (host-65-7-68-91.bna.bellsouth.net/65.7.68.91)

>Bill to answer your question Lanny Harvey served as Centrel VP from 1989 thru 1992 he was inducted into the NMMA Hall of Fame in 1995 and is presently serving as
the Region five Chairman.
As for Mr Ledger in august he chose to go to the outlaw
Nationals in OK instead of supporting the NMMA Nationals.
Thanks Joe Smiley EVP

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[> [> Re: Who are these guys and what do they stand for??? -- Greg, 16:42:38 10/31/06 Tue (ip68-228-167-43.ok.ok.cox.net/68.228.167.43)

Maybe Mr Ledger wanted to race against more than 7 or 8 of the same cars. He may have also wanted to race against tougher competition. Maybe it was a closer drive. Why would you hold that against him? I'm not a NNMA supporter, although I was a member in 1986 and my child in 2005 for one race. I have met Mr Ledger several times and he would at least bring new fresh ideas to a dying association. If NNMA wants to stay course and loose more tracks and members then call Mr Smilley and ask him who to vote for!

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[> Here is my take on this subject -- J.M., 07:51:59 10/20/06 Fri (adsl-66-140-72-207.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net/66.140.72.207)

I dont like the idea of voting in anyone that doesnt even have a supporting NMMA track they regularly attend. Mr Harvey may have been in the NMMA and supported it years ago, but I believe he doesnt have a track within 250 miles of him that is NMMA.

I say the same for the National Preseident. You should be a part of the NMMA weekly at the local level (local track), as well as Nationaly. Going to a couple of races a year just isnt staying in touch with racing and the NMMA.

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[> Re: Who are these guys and what do they stand for??? -- Chuck Kidwell (Who are these guys?), 08:23:43 10/24/06 Tue (adsl-76-213-220-56.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net/76.213.220.56)

Who are these guys? I have known and worked with all three of them during the past and find them all to bring good things to the table. Dean has built Sweet Springs into one of, if not the best facilities in the Nation and has been very active in NMMA for years as a "watch dog" so to speak over the NMMA by making the Board think about decisions made. Lanny has worked for years trying to bring in new ideas (the 600's for instance) and Clubs (KAM in Hastings, NE as an example) into the NMMA and continues to try rrestablishing NMMA in his region. Tracey has been a major influence in the Lincoln area by working to bring sponsorship to the sport and being very instrumental in getting the Fairbury track going with NMMA. I do not feel that judging him on the Nationals is a fair shake. He felt the frustration of trying to bring in new ideas and sponsorship and seeing it destroyed by petty infighting of local members. Also did you know that he bought the trophys out of his pocket for the Westerns? He definately is an asset to the NMMA when it comes to working for the betterment of the organization and moving it forward.
Each of the three bring assets with them. It is a tough decision to chose one, just use your head and cast a vote. If you don't vote then don't be whining next summer.

Chuck Kidwell

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" westerns -- racer, 05:54:39 10/31/06 Tue (NoHost/150.199.20.130)

Has anyone found out where the westerns are goin to be this year??? It was supposed to be decided on the first of this month but it wasnt.

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" MMSA Meeting November 5th -- Joel Fritz, 04:51:17 10/30/06 Mon (igwaverly.esu6.org/204.234.247.165)

The MMSA will be having a meeting in Sunday November 5th at 1:30 at Waverly High School

Agenda Items:
Treasurer Reports
Election of Officers (Nominations will be needed), I am not sure which offices are up at this point.
2007 Race Program
Club Equipment

See you all Sunday

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" Jr Sprints and 600's in Ft Wayne, IN and Columbus, OH -- Chuck Kidwell, 16:49:03 10/29/06 Sun (adsl-68-73-150-80.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net/68.73.150.80)

Jr Sprints at the Rumble in Fr Wayne and Columbus!!!!! Briggs only Jr Sprints have been added to the program for the Rumble Series on Dec 29th and 30th and in the January race in Columbus, OH. US 24 rules will be used. Sorry, no Yamahas. There has been money and contingencies added to the payoff. More on this later…….Load in and practice on Thursday evening and two separate shows, one Friday and one Saturday. Information on the Columbus date will be posted as soon as available. Entry fee is $35 (70% payback) each night with pit passed the same for a single night or $50 for both nights. Thursday night practice is $15. Entry blanks available by contacting Chuck Kidwell (email: chuck@kidwellracecars.com or phone: 317-507-5968). The 600’s are also running along with karts and quarter midgets and entry blanks are available at the Rumbleseries.com website.. Hope to see all you Briggs Jr Sprints there.

Chuck Kidwell

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" Upcoming race -- Jeremy, 17:07:48 10/23/06 Mon (NoHost/69.18.231.115)

Does anyone know of any upcomming races I can take my 11 year-old son to so he can run his S-class car another time this year? We live in North central Kansas. Thanx, Jeremy

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" WOW what a Car count at SIR outlaw race -- Terry ((n/a)), 16:32:41 10/16/06 Mon (pw1.shawneelink.net/216.240.66.22)

Wow what a car count at SIR over almost 90 between the winged 600 and wingless 600

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[> Re: WOW what a Car count at SIR outlaw race -- Mike Phillips, 14:21:32 10/20/06 Fri (pool-70-106-249-17.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net/70.106.249.17)

Just goes to show you what a lot of work & PROMOTION will do for you!

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" SIR outlaw race -- Derek, 10:30:48 10/18/06 Wed (dialup-4.252.199.171.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net/4.252.199.171)

IS SIR having an outlaw race this weekend

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[> Re: SIR outlaw race -- Derek, 10:34:31 10/18/06 Wed (dialup-4.252.199.171.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net/4.252.199.171)

>IS SIR having an outlaw race this weekend

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" Attn: Vendors -- Craig Dori, 20:05:52 10/13/06 Fri (cache-rtc-ac03.proxy.aol.com/152.163.100.132)

ONE HUGE BUILDING will be greeting vendors and patrons alike when they arrive for the Hoosier Racers Swap Meet & Trade Show 7!! The 67,000 Sq. Ft. Champions Pavilion @ the Indiana State Fairgrounds will now be our home! The move to Indy has proved to be a very popular one as last years show had over 300 booths in 2 buildings. Now, the completely renovated ($8 million worth) and modern Champions Pavilion, will be able to accomodate everyone together! Along with all the modern amenities, the building also has meeting rooms available for you promoters, sanctioning bodies, or race shops (call for availability)!!

January 27, 2007 this swap meet/trade show will bring together local racers, professional racers, racing business's (manufacturers & dealers), race tracks, and sanctioning bodies with thousands of potential customers... All in one day... All under one roof for the biggest trade show & swap meet in the midwest!!

We have also added to the "attraction" part of the day! Back by popular demand will be the Racin' W/D.O."Legends Roundtable" presented by H.A.R.F.! Then you'll want to stick around for the Indy Race Parts "Ms. Hoosier Motorsports Pageant" and the "Last Ditch Auction" presented by Charter Sailing Unlimited!! It's all gonna add up to one action packed day!

So if your a local racer wanting to unload a few parts, or a manufacturer of the best racing chassis ever, you''ll want to participate in this show! Last year we had vendors from 11 States, and as far away as Georgia making it a sell-out 5 years running!!.. Don't miss-out on the 2nd "Don't Miss" event of the new year (Chili Bowl is first:), The Hoosier Racers Swap Meet & Trade Show 7!

For complete details please visit our newly designed website @ :
http://www.shoestringracing.com
Where you can now reserve by credit card online!!! You can also get a copy of the show flyer and a registration form for the Pageant! If there is something on the site you didn't catch or we just didn't cover, please call us: 317-381-9931 or write info@shoestringracing.com
Thanks, and we look forward to seeing you at the Hoosier Racers Swap Meet & Trade Show 7!

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" Blast From The Past at www.shredracing.com -- Curt, 17:42:16 10/11/06 Wed (72.25.25.33.dynamic.dejazzd.com/72.25.25.33)

Check out the Blast From The Past page at www.shredracing.com. Several more vintage photos from LANCO (Clyde Martin Memorial Speedway) have just been added.

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" Bill (and others), we could use your help -- Richard Kreisel, 09:01:48 10/11/06 Wed (mo-69-68-210-36.sta.embarqhsd.net/69.68.210.36)

Bill, I feel your passion and concern for Micro Racing and appreciate your support of a National Organization for Micro's. I only wish you were more active in the process of building or re-building such an organization. I know that you are a busy man; the world is full of busy people like you and me. The world is not full of people with vision, passion and the willingness to take up a cause and see it through to the end.

The NMMA is planning a winter board meeting where many important topics will be discussed related to the 2007 season and the future of the NMMA. Perhaps most importantly, topics relating to Technical Inspection and interpretation of the new rules. This meeting, like all other NMMA board meetings (except executive session) is open to the general membership of the NMMA. I encourage you and anyone interested in improving Micro Racing to attend.

Richard Kreisel
Region 11 Chairman

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[> Re: Bill (and others), we could use your help -- Pete, 09:56:36 10/11/06 Wed (bluecoat.whiteman.af.mil/137.1.212.12)

When and where will this meeting take place? Thanks

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[> [> Re: Bill (and others), we could use your help -- Richard Kreisel, 15:54:02 10/11/06 Wed (mo-69-68-210-36.sta.embarqhsd.net/69.68.210.36)

The date and place have not been set yet. In the past it has been in St. Louis in January. It should be posted on the webpage when finalized.

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" A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- JAY JOHNSON, 14:30:15 09/27/06 Wed (CPE-75-81-110-31.kc.res.rr.com/75.81.110.31)

IN THE PIT STOP RULE CHANGE: "NO NOSE WINGS ON THE "A"CLASS OR THE "R" CLASS" WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS!

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Brent Abbott, 20:01:13 09/27/06 Wed (client-66-116-2-228.consolidated.net/66.116.2.228)

>IN THE PIT STOP RULE CHANGE: "NO NOSE WINGS ON THE
>"A"CLASS OR THE "R" CLASS" WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS!

They took away the nose wing, but in return we can run any compound left rear tire. Also from what I understand we can groove and sipe the left rear since it is no longer a spec tire.

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[> [> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Teresa, 09:54:17 09/28/06 Thu (mo-76-4-161-130.dhcp.embarqhsd.net/76.4.161.130)

>>IN THE PIT STOP RULE CHANGE: "NO NOSE WINGS ON THE
>>"A"CLASS OR THE "R" CLASS" WHAT IS THE REASON FOR
>THIS!
>
>They took away the nose wing, but in return we can run
>any compound left rear tire. Also from what I
>understand we can groove and sipe the left rear since
>it is no longer a spec tire.

I've been wondering the same thing. Still don't understand what the reasoning was for taking away the nose wing. What is it going to help?? Alot of the drivers, especially the young guys are disappointed in this new rule. My son says his car looks goofy without the nose wing. I know looks maybe shouldn't matter that much but on the same token, alot of the older guys spend alot of money on fancy paints jobs and such so I guess there is something to looking as good as you can. Just my opinion....

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Maggie, 11:28:06 09/28/06 Thu (mna6dsl_pool-154.ctcis.net/69.27.214.154)

>IN THE PIT STOP RULE CHANGE: "NO NOSE WINGS ON THE
>"A"CLASS OR THE "R" CLASS" WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS!



My son feels the same way as Teresa. He says it doesnt look like a sprint car without it. I say if you dont want a wing dont run one, but dont force everyone else to do it too.

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Richard Kreisel, 14:12:32 09/28/06 Thu (mo-69-68-210-36.sta.embarqhsd.net/69.68.210.36)

The rule regarding nose wings is for the fans. The 600 cars (Multi, A-Class, Restrictor) have had a similar appearance from the stands. By removing the nose wings from these two classes, the NMMA is working to create distinction from the Multi Class.

As an organization, the NMMA is working on behalf of more than one entity; 1. The racer 2. The racetracks 3. The fans. Opinions vary on which should take precedence.

Richard Kreisel
NMMA Region 11 Chairman

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[> [> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Wade Huisman, 15:50:55 09/28/06 Thu (74-33-128-139.br2.fod.ia.frontiernet.net/74.33.128.139)

Seriously??? Your going to claim that rule is going to make a better show for the fans?? I'm a fan & I think they look stupid without a front wing...

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[> [> [> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- dfritz, 18:30:54 09/28/06 Thu (wsip-70-184-211-210.om.om.cox.net/70.184.211.210)

>Seriously??? Your going to claim that rule is going
>to make a better show for the fans?? I'm a fan & I
>think they look stupid without a front wing...

Paint a 305, 360, and 410 exactly the same, stand back at least 100 feet and have an average fan tell you which is which.

Grandpa and grandma, mom and dad and aunt Ethel and Uncle Elmer know what the car is they are there to watch.

Leave the wings on the nose!

One more item to make us different.

dfritz

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[> [> [> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- dfritz, 18:39:50 09/28/06 Thu (wsip-70-184-211-210.om.om.cox.net/70.184.211.210)

>Seriously??? Your going to claim that rule is going
>to make a better show for the fans?? I'm a fan & I
>think they look stupid without a front wing...

Place a 305, 360, and 410 painted exactly the same with the same wings on them, stand 100 feet away and the average fan may not know the difference.

Grandpa, grandma, aunt Elsie, uncle Elmer, and the rest of the family knows what the person they are there to watch is running. And in most cases the announcer tells you what is going on.

Leave the wings on. It is a visual thing and does to some handling assistance.

Why do we have silly rules like this to make us sooooo different.

thanks,

dfritz

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- JAY JOHNSON, 16:54:23 09/28/06 Thu (CPE-75-81-110-31.kc.res.rr.com/75.81.110.31)

>IN THE PIT STOP RULE CHANGE: "NO NOSE WINGS ON THE
>"A"CLASS OR THE "R" CLASS" WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS!
MAYBE THE MULTI's SHOULD TAKE THE NOSE WINGS OFF THERE CARS!! WHY SHOULD ONE CLASS LOOK GREAT AND THE OTHERS LOOK LIKE A BUNCH OF PANSY'S . HOPE FUEL PRICES STAY LOW, TRAVELING LOOK LIKES A BETTER OPTION THEN BEING A STEPCHILD

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Jerimiah Phillips, 17:40:42 09/28/06 Thu (64-192-65-152.wcg.net/64.192.65.152)

It's so the LOOK differant so the fans can SEE the differance.Their are some cars that run with out a nose wing & they do not look gooofy to me.Also this will save you money by not having to buy(yes I konw most already have one but they do get broke & you have buy replacement one)nose wings.Their is also the handling factor yes it is not much differnet but still that is one less thing to ade in the handling of the car & puts a little more focus on the driver.3rd now you can sell if you chose to these wings to multi drivers.I have been around micros for about 23 years(now 29).If you put an A-class R-class M-class car side by side with out them running or knowing what class they already run you can not tell them apart.4th no is out any money put your in your trailer becouse this rule my chage if it dose work who knows.Just my thoughts Jerimiah Phillips I-117

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[> [> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Pete, 11:57:57 10/09/06 Mon (pwas.iland.net/205.242.230.21)

Jeremiah, the rule to take off nose wings will cost us money not save money. We lost a sponsorship spot. Also changing to a softer LR tire will cost us more also. Everyone I talked to was just fine with the 40 durometer rule for the LR. We will wear out more LR tires next year. Personally, I could care less if they made us run a 50 durometer tire, everyone has to run the same tire to race. Although I don't think they look "goofy" without the nose wing, they do look better with one especially to a youngster. PLEASE BRING BACK THE NOSE WING!

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- DAVE ROBINSON, 10:31:16 09/30/06 Sat (DHCP-74-134-58-47.insightbb.com/74.134.58.47)

you are all crying becuase of the nose wings ask Richard Kreisel or anybody else that runs nonwing ..... wing are for looks only...... drive a car without wings and have some real fun ..... David Robinson r o732

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[> [> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Joe Smiley EVP, 17:11:53 09/30/06 Sat (host-65-7-68-45.bna.bellsouth.net/65.7.68.45)

>Dave if a nose wing does nothing else,it dirtys up the
air under the top wing and makes it less effective.
If you ever noticed the cars from out in Kansas that run
at airport speedway do not run a nose wing.They learned this from Mike Gigot who did extensive wing testing.
You are right Dave the none wing guys just plain have fun.
Thanks Joe Smiley Evp

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- JAY JOHNSON, 17:50:05 09/30/06 Sat (CPE-75-81-110-31.kc.res.rr.com/75.81.110.31)

>IN THE PIT STOP RULE CHANGE: "NO NOSE WINGS ON THE
>"A"CLASS OR THE "R" CLASS" WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS!
IF THIS SUCH A SPEED SECRET MAYBE THIS SHOULD BE KEPT WITH THE MULTI CLASS. AT SWEET SPRINGS LAST NIGHT WE HAD 64 PEOPLE IN THE STANDS!2/3 LEFT BEFORE OR THE MULTI CLASS YOU ARE RIGHT THEY (MULTI) DO HAVE A ID. PROBLEM!!

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- John, 12:14:56 10/01/06 Sun (0-2pool9-192.nas2.paducah1.ky.us.da.qwest.net/65.142.9.192)

I run outlaw and we run a front wing and the front wings help air move up to the top wing so it helps put pressure on tha top wing. they are doing for looks they are doing it because they are gay

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- BOB, 19:37:42 10/01/06 Sun (adsl-69-152-35-20.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net/69.152.35.20)

>IN THE PIT STOP RULE CHANGE: "NO NOSE WINGS ON THE
>"A"CLASS OR THE "R" CLASS" WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS!
Sorry about your RULE CHANGE on NOSE WINGS but we are going TO run our wing in the RESTRICTOR CLASS!!!!!!!!We have sponsors that payed MONEY for that spot,paint,lettering. PLUS I thought that is why we put a letter A,R,M,on the nose wing.WHEN ever you all hand them to us,Ive asked 3 or 4 times for a letter (R) And still to this day have not received.We all are suppost to LOOK like a sprint car? Sorry for your RULE!!!NOT HAPPEN HERE!!!!

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Teresa, 07:16:19 10/02/06 Mon (mo-76-4-161-130.dhcp.embarqhsd.net/76.4.161.130)

John.....GAY???...
That's kind of a silly statement isn't it?
As for my 12 yr old wanting the nose wing on because he thinks it makes his car look better doesn't qualify him as being gay does it?? He is only 12 but is pretty spunky and I'm sure he would tell you what he thinks about your gay comment... by the way, how old are you?
Opinions are one thing, but stupid comments are another.
We have a Multi car and a Restrictor car and I think they both put on a heck of a show. I'm not sure why some of the fans got up and left when the Multi's came out at Sweet Springs, because it's not because they don't put on an awesome show. The fans are missing out on some very intense racing when they leave. Maybe it's all the political bull that seems to follow that class. Needs to be some changes made before it's to late.
Just my opinion.

>IN THE PIT STOP RULE CHANGE: "NO NOSE WINGS ON THE
>"A"CLASS OR THE "R" CLASS" WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS!

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[> [> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Wes, 13:04:23 10/02/06 Mon (wi.wi.com/206.153.209.202)

Teresa - They probably left because they knew "THE HURRICANE" wouldn't be doing any additional stunts!

And your right I love watching the A and Multi classes.

Wes

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[> [> [> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- maggie, 15:05:50 10/02/06 Mon (mna6dsl_pool-154.ctcis.net/69.27.214.154)

>Teresa - They probably left because they knew "THE
>HURRICANE" wouldn't be doing any additional stunts!
>
>And your right I love watching the A and Multi classes.
>
>Wes

She sure does some great stunts...you go girl!!!!

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[> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- racer1, 08:09:12 10/03/06 Tue (99.sub-66-174-93.myvzw.com/66.174.93.99)

>IN THE PIT STOP RULE CHANGE: "NO NOSE WINGS ON THE
>"A"CLASS OR THE "R" CLASS" WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS!

if it is like most nmma race programs they probably had to go to work the next day and to get home in time to shower and hit the road

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[> [> Re: A CLASS @ R CLASS NOSE WINGS -- Wes, 08:29:56 10/03/06 Tue (wi.wi.com/206.153.209.202)

Actually the racing was over before 10:30pm on Saturday night and is usually over well before 11pm each week.

>if it is like most nmma race programs they probably
>had to go to work the next day and to get home in time
>to shower and hit the road

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" Goshen Express Lube offers Wheelie Cash -- Dwayne, 12:59:53 10/05/06 Thu (bdsl-66-14-202-160.gte.net/66.14.202.160)

Goshen Express Lube in Goshen In. has offered a $50 cash prize to the Micro Sprint Driver who can do the best wheelie at intermission of the Micro Sprint Outlaw Challenge at Miami Co. Speedway in Peru In Sat Oct. 7th

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[> Joe should have to wear a pink thong and award the $50 bucks........ -- Vyper, 14:17:25 10/05/06 Thu (cpe172-91.wireless.dnv.cooketech.net/66.213.172.91)


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[> Re: Goshen Express Lube offers Wheelie Cash -- Dwayne, 21:17:07 10/06/06 Fri (bdsl-66-14-202-160.gte.net/66.14.202.160)

A.D.S. Custom Graphics will be donating a 3 foot custom trophy to the winner of the "Wheelie Contest" at the Miami County Speedway Micro Challenge. Goshen Express Lube will also offer a $50 cash prize to the winner! Free Entry. Good Luck!

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" 2006 Final national Points - 9/28 Posting -- Shafer Racing, 12:50:12 10/06/06 Fri (DHCP-74-132-91-15.insightbb.com/74.132.91.15)

Are the current (dated 9/28/06) postings displayed, the final update for the 2006 National Points, as it has been displayed for 2 weeks now, or is there another update pending last weekends (Sat. 9/30/06) recaluclations?
Please advise. Thanks!

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[> Re: 2006 Final national Points - 9/28 Posting -- W. Pat McGrath, 15:01:19 10/06/06 Fri (r63h115.dixie-net.com/64.49.63.115)

Points are not final until Nov. 1, 2006 this gives everyone a chance to question thier points.

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" CALLING ALL RACER'S!!!! -- Brent, 19:59:12 10/03/06 Tue (client-66-116-2-228.consolidated.net/66.116.2.228)

I want everyone's attention on something that will help this sport in a great way and slowly get payout's up a little higher. This ask's nothing of you except a little time and effort!
In order for you to understand this I have to give you a little backround on myself. I live in Mattoon, IL. which is just 4 mile's from Coles County Speedway,(NMMA sanctioned track). I have to say that out of all the race track's I have been to, and trust me that's A LOT, I have never seen a track as clean, well run and full of friendly people as this one! I have raced motorcross all my life, but a lot of my friend's run open wheel modified's and late model's at area tracks around the central part of the U.S.. Up until this last Aug. me and everyone I run around with had no idea these car's even existed! There has never been any major advertisement's or anything of the sort that I can ever remember. If I would have known about these car's about ten year's ago I would have bought one then. 2007 will be our first year in the sport and I really have to give a lot of credit to the racer's at Coles County for being polite and patient in answering all of our questions about the car's. Hand's down the most down-to-earth racer's I have ever met.
In order for us to get the payout's up we have to show the general public what they are and get them aware of how much fun they are in relationship to the cost of owning one. I guarantee that you will have more people interested and more racer's from other sports wanting more info. I can personnaly vouch for a handfull of guy's who are looking into it because the open wheel modified's are getting too expensive and this is something they can enjoy with their kid's.
While we are in the "off-season" try to set-up car show's at your local mall's or outside of a local resturant. This is something that will work, but it takes effort in part of the racer's to bring their car. For some people this can be a little bit of a trip, but if the long term gain's are worth it then why not do it? I would and will if someone has something like this. If someone need's help trying to set-up something like this then step up and offer your assistance, don't leave it up to board member's to think up and arrange everything to promote "your" sport. No offense to anyone that put's all the effort into advertising event's on message boards, but this is not enough by any mean's. If your a racer and want your sport to grow then take the initiative and throw out idea's about how to do it.
I am not trying to start any kind of argument by any mean's, just trying to help get this sport up to the next level. It's just a lot easier for us to sit around and wait for someone else to think it up, rather than be a little outspoken about something that can help and I'm not talking about rule change's in anyway. Minor rule change's are inevitable and a part of the sport.
Have a good one!

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[> Re: CALLING ALL RACER'S!!!! -- jc hopper, 21:24:13 10/03/06 Tue (DHCP-74-136-218-94.insightbb.com/74.136.218.94)

Welcome! Please continue to breathe positive air into our sport. I have been around since the 60's and have always done what I could to try to get the word out on our little known piece of racing "heaven". You are right, too many emphisize on the negative things that can and do happen in any of the many sports.....sure costs go up and the pay never seems to keep up, but dollar for dollar the NMMA/CCMMRA is still one of the best things going. We had the Nationals at CCMMRA this past summer and the club spent many dollars on advertising, but, some people never seem to see the advertisements and media money that we spend. Advertising is such a gamble.........still the best advertising is that which is passed from "word of mouth" from person to person that has been out to the track and has seen first-hand what a fine facility we have at CCMMRA. I started out being too young to be in the pits, finally old enough to "pit" for my Dad, then old enough to have my own racer, then the "family demands" came along, the racer was sold, then I worked for many years in the "infield", then able to go racing again, be the track reporter for the National publication (Pit Stop)then retirement from being a driver, back to the infield for the Nationals, then on the flagstand as the flagman for the remainder of the season when the long time flagman had an employment change......Yes, I still think this sport is one of the best things out there. Always will. I have spent many an evening at other venues in the racing world and I still am proud of this form of racing. jc hopper

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[> Re: CALLING ALL RACER'S!!!! -- Vyper, 22:44:00 10/04/06 Wed (cpe172-91.wireless.dnv.cooketech.net/66.213.172.91)

Well it's certainly great to see your obviously very gung-ho !! But not trying "P" in your cheerio's but the car show thing has been done at most of the Mall's for years along with the stock car guys ect. People look at them think they are neat ect just about as far as it goes. The fact of the matter is these cars are really quite reasonable to buy and run be it new or used. Second the NMMA was not founded and their goal was not to see Big purses, don't get me wrong I would like to see $3-500 to win every Saturday night. This is to be a family oreinted have FUN racing organization first and formost. Not how much can I make or win racing. :}
Without a huge grandstand crowd paying like $10 a head you can't pay out that kind of money. Despite some great racing people are not going to pay $10 to see micros run at C-Town or elsewhere.
To make a big difference run for an NMMA office put yourself in a postion to make a progressive and positive change!! You can't promote a sport from the outside looking in! Everyone has the you otta do this you otta do that advice freely flowing but never wants to act upon it.
I say Brent for president !!!! He's our MAN!!!

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[> [> Re: CALLING ALL RACER'S!!!! -- Brent, 07:21:15 10/05/06 Thu (client-216-176-81-143.consolidated.net/216.176.81.143)

>Well it's certainly great to see your obviously very
>gung-ho !! But not trying "P" in your cheerio's but
>the car show thing has been done at most of the Mall's
>for years along with the stock car guys ect. People
>look at them think they are neat ect just about as far
>as it goes. The fact of the matter is these cars are
>really quite reasonable to buy and run be it new or
>used. Second the NMMA was not founded and their goal
>was not to see Big purses, don't get me wrong I would
>like to see $3-500 to win every Saturday night. This
>is to be a family oreinted have FUN racing
>organization first and formost. Not how much can I
>make or win racing. :}
>Without a huge grandstand crowd paying like $10 a head
>you can't pay out that kind of money. Despite some
>great racing people are not going to pay $10 to see
>micros run at C-Town or elsewhere.
>To make a big difference run for an NMMA office put
>yourself in a postion to make a progressive and
>positive change!! You can't promote a sport from the
>outside looking in! Everyone has the you otta do this
>you otta do that advice freely flowing but never wants
>to act upon it.
>I say Brent for president !!!! He's our MAN!!!


I appreciate and respect your opinion, but I don't think I've been around this sport long enough to warrant running for President. I do have a few things to comment on though. I honestly believe you can promote this sport from the outside as well as any other sport. I did it in motorcross and I'm doing it now. You don't have to double your admission fee to be able to raise purses a little. Although I can't tell you how many people have told me how much better the racing is than the stock car track and how amazed at how cheap the entrance fee is. You don't want to ruin the good things that seperate this sport from the rest, but you can ask for a little more if the end result is twice as good for the fans and the racer's. Don't get me wrong though the major point in this whole thing is to get more info to the general public about these car's and to make access for seeing them a little more "open".
Now I will point to one thing and that is that you seem to focus on what don't work instead of figuring out why it didn't work and fixing the problem. There are a lot of reason's why something won't work, but if you ignore that, keep trying and at the same time do it a little different your going to find something that will click with the general public and it will work. You are right though, alot of people voice their opinion's but don't want to put in the extra effort to try to make it a reality. Why, because they have already convinced themselves that it is not going to happen anyway so why try, or that because of "so-and-so" on the board, they would rather not say anything rather than deal with him/her. Give me one good reason you couldn't have someone go to a local business and have them sponsor one race for $500 to win for one particular class? We are not talking anything major right now, but if we take baby steps in something and it works then who know's where it can lead. I guess that's where I'm going with this. If your happy keeping things the way they are forever and not wanting any change that's fine, but that's the same reason track's and orgination's go under is because of refusal to change with the time's. Good example, go over to the Charleston Speedway and see what I'm talking about. You just have to try to adjust to change so it benefit's the racer's and the fan's, not the board member's. Have a good one!

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[> Re: CALLING ALL RACER'S!!!! -- ed carter (milk for your cheerioooosss), 07:09:26 10/06/06 Fri (client-216-176-88-7.consolidated.net/216.176.88.7)

brent keep your positive side up its easy to be negitive look around and see anything we can do to promote are sport will help everyone concerned sometimes it takes a new kid on the block to get are attention we have three cars that we would be glad to bring to town give me a call theres enough positive people around to put on a car show thanks ed 217 246 7865

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" SIR -- Nick, 20:03:09 10/04/06 Wed (dialup-4.252.69.36.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net/4.252.69.36)

Is SIR going to have thier play night or not?? It would be a great time for people to test for the outlaw race though

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[> Negative -- Jake, 20:30:55 10/04/06 Wed (ws151191.housing-ec.siu.edu/131.230.151.191)

>Is SIR going to have thier play night or not?? It
>would be a great time for people to test for the
>outlaw race though

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" Micro Car Show Oct.14 (limited space) -- Mrsd, 01:46:15 10/04/06 Wed (12-207-154-145.client.mchsi.com/12.207.154.145)

This is a special show at the VA Nursing Home in Marion,IL. from 9am till about 11 or Noon. Space is limited but cars have been entered but if any other drivers could come out and just talk to these guys, shake their hands. Just spend a few minutes with one of them it would make a few men that fought for us, the good old USA and can not take care of themselves anymore and have to be in this nursing home, which is one of the nicest and best taken care of(I have worked in alot and it is really great). The Nursing Home is right next to the VA Hospital(old RT.13 or Main street, just off the exit on Rt. I57 to the left)turn into where it says VA Hospital and go straight towards the big flag pole, turn left and go all the way past the Ambulance entrance. Just come out and enjoy yourselves, visit and make a old vet happy for just a few seconds. Then if your a racer, since racing season is over come Race at SIR on Oct.14. YOU WONT be disappointed, good racing and great fun. http://www.bjmmemorialrace.com/
for more info. Support our vets as well as our Sport, and remember if it wasn't for the NMMA no one would have possibly thought of these cars.
P.S. If you have any old pic's of your cars, I know the guys would love to put them on their walls. Lets make this a great day. If it rains(It cant) it will be under the roof right at the entrance other wise it will be in the circle drive in front. Just find a place to park in the parking lot and walk down to the Nursing Home, I guarantee you will make some vets life happy).
PSS. I know I don't spell very good but its almost 4 am and I can't sleep *L*)

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[> Contact Donny Marks for more information 997-1670 for more info. -- mrsd, 01:49:10 10/04/06 Wed (12-207-154-145.client.mchsi.com/12.207.154.145)


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" BAMMA Meeting -- LES RILEY, 06:06:22 10/03/06 Tue (adsl-070-157-254-218.sip.asm.bellsouth.net/70.157.254.218)

BAMMA will be holding there annual meeting 10-11-06 at 7:00 pm at the Pondorosa in Draffenville Ky. All voting members need to attend.

Les Riley

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" Credo -- Owen Family, 13:21:20 10/02/06 Mon (dialup-4.159.98.231.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net/4.159.98.231)

HAPPY 17TH BIRTHDAY CREDENCE MOTT!!!!! Sorry we are a day late. We wish you all the best.

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" Jr Sprint Info for Outlaw Challenge @ Miami County Speedway -- Dwayne, 07:58:53 10/02/06 Mon (bdsl-66-14-202-160.gte.net/66.14.202.160)

JRs will run NMMA rules. $75 to win $25 to start if over 10 cars we will pay $100 to win Come join us for the Micro Sprint Outlaw Challenge Oct. 7th at peru In.

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" WCS -- Shannon, 22:47:19 09/29/06 Fri (dialup-4.159.98.176.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net/4.159.98.176)

Well, the season is over at WCS and ended with good racing and everyone happy. WCS will be back next year. We appreciate everyone who supported the track and helped in any way. Thanks to Jeff and Cathy Montgomery for donating 20 more trophy dash trophies tonight. Also thanks to the Motts for their monatary support of WCS. I would like to thank Vonna Cluck and Cindy Irwin for helping me score the past 8 weeks. Thanks to Mary Ellen Harris and Loretta Esworthy for all the advice and support.Thank you also to our wonderful concession families the Erharts and Halls. To all of the drivers and families who were supportive and had postive things to say, we thank you. I will send out invitations to the awards banquet and auction that will be in Dec. but anyone that would like to come is more than welcome. Club meeting will be Monday Oct.2 at 7:00.

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[> Re: WCS -- Cathy, 06:02:09 10/02/06 Mon (out.lakeland.cc.il.us/216.124.141.231)

I think I speak for alot of us when I say "THANKS TO YOU, GUY AND LUCAS" for all your dedication and time to WCS. You have put your 100% and more into this track and kept it going and kept it up in good condition for all of us. You have done an excellent job in the tower, and keeping things in order in the pits. We appreciate EVERYTHING and we "THANK YOU".
Racers, Parents, and Fans

>Well, the season is over at WCS and ended with good
>racing and everyone happy. WCS will be back next year.
>We appreciate everyone who supported the track and
>helped in any way. Thanks to Jeff and Cathy Montgomery
>for donating 20 more trophy dash trophies tonight.
>Also thanks to the Motts for their monatary support of
>WCS. I would like to thank Vonna Cluck and Cindy Irwin
>for helping me score the past 8 weeks. Thanks to Mary
>Ellen Harris and Loretta Esworthy for all the advice
>and support.Thank you also to our wonderful concession
>families the Erharts and Halls. To all of the drivers
>and families who were supportive and had postive
>things to say, we thank you. I will send out
>invitations to the awards banquet and auction that
>will be in Dec. but anyone that would like to come is
>more than welcome. Club meeting will be Monday Oct.2
>at 7:00.

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" outlaw races -- jeff willingham R 0486, 17:57:55 09/29/06 Fri (adsl-144-216-183.jan.bellsouth.net/70.144.216.183)

i donot have a problem with people or tracks posting outlaw races on the message board i do have a problem with tracks like wrr not holding up there end of an agreement with the nmma and racers. i attended the 2005 nationals i have yet to receive my payout money. i assumed that they would mail it in a day or so (never assume nothing) i called wrr talked to joe ask him to mail my money this was aimost two weeks after the race he said they had cash for the payout so i told him to take out the amount of a cashier check and mail it to me NOTHING YET IN THE MAIL so with all this said - v. brooks you honestly have ask why mr pat keeps taking your messages off about the outlaw race maybe you didnt know that me and several other people never received ther money-did you not end up with some left over at sun rise since you said you were there until then. one question if you can answer this what happened to my money and the others? mr pat is just doing his job looking out for the racers,and the NMMA as a president should.

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[> Re: outlaw races -- VBrooks, 17:05:35 10/01/06 Sun (dialup-4.244.171.31.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net/4.244.171.31)

I spoke with Pat on Friday. We talked for about 10 minutes on this subject and then spent probably 30 minutes in a very congenial conversation about all kinds of racing issues.

I asked Pat how many people didn't get their money and he said he really didn't know. I have been told by another NMMA board member that they knew of 3 people. Unfortunately, you must have been one of them.

I really was there until the next morning and I made every effort to let everyone know that if they did not want to stay that night to get their money, to have someone who was staying pick it up for them because Joe and Tammy would be leaving for Knoxville in a few hours. As I told Pat, I handed out all the trophies, all the donated prizes and most of the money. I also told him that I honestly don't remember having much left BUT that is not to say that there might have been a few of the lower placing payouts left.

It is conceivable to me that if someone wasn't expecting their payout to me much, it might not be worth waiting around to pick up. I know we stayed till the next morning in Marion, IL just to end up with an 80.00 check and we would have been better off heading on home.

Naturally you would assume that you should be able to get it mailed to you. I also understand your frustration because the same thing happened to us 2 years ago from Sweet Springs. We never did get our money from their nationals. I tried for almost a year, to no avail. We did continue to race there occassionally because our son has lots of friends there but that still doesn't make it right.

Just as you not being able to get your money isn't right. You may choose to just give up like we did BUT you might try giving them another call.

Anyway, under the circumstances, I would not expect you to be interested in coming to this race BUT there are more racers on the other side of the issue that might.

Now, if for no other reason than all the hub-bub, the racers know about this race and can make up their own mind if they want to come AND I am truly sorry that your personal experience was a negative one. I don't know who your are but wish you good luck with your racing in the future.

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" Outlaw Races -- Rick Moss, 12:33:06 09/29/06 Fri (static-209-107-225-35.consolidated.net/209.107.225.35)

BOY!!! This is getting old in a hurry!!! I guess you only have your own agenda to push!!! Give it a rest, please!

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" WCS -- Shannon, 10:57:58 09/29/06 Fri (dialup-4.254.79.119.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net/4.254.79.119)

Wayne County Speedway will have a double tonight Friday Sept. 29

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" races -- troy, 10:44:24 09/29/06 Fri (ppp-70-128-125-29.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net/70.128.125.29)

rick
this is what a open forum is about, two or more people taking nicely about a subject. the post is not from willrogers the post is from my wife to inform people out side of ok about a race that they might like to go to. we have many freinds out side ok. it whould be nice to know that they get this info and might come to the race. this has nothing to do with like or dis like for the nmma, it simpley is info for those who have a car and would like to race. i see no harm in letting nmma members have this info.the problem now is one person wants to keep public info on a public site away from it members. we were members of the nmma for years, but gas prices and lack local tracks have forced us to leave and race outlaw. when we first became members it was fun tracks all over, now just a handful.maybe some people still have hope the nmma will be strong again (i would love this to happen)but keeping info from it's members or dictating what people can or can't see about the sport i love and many others do to is not the way to do it.

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" Outlaw Races -- Rick Moss, 09:44:22 09/29/06 Fri (static-209-107-225-35.consolidated.net/209.107.225.35)

Troy,

Not going to get into splitting hairs here, and I'm not even a racer, just a fan and a sponsor. Since Will Rogers dropped their sanction, there should be no question as to whether (in my opinion) they should be allowed to post. They should not! I check many boards, including Okie Outlaw and others to keep track of what's going on other places and I'm sure other racers and fans do to. That is where this race should be posted (Okie forum). Not on a forum provided by the NMMA (since obviously Will Rogers does not want to be associated with the NMMA). I don't see why this even has a bearing on their race. If'n y'all don' wanna be part of the NMMA, then don't get on here and bash the NMMA!

That said, I've voiced my opinion and don't plan to respond any further. Have a great day!

Rick

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" democracy or dictatorship -- troy, 08:36:53 09/29/06 Fri (ppp-70-128-125-29.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net/70.128.125.29)

i think most people that race like to try new tracks and whould like to race after the nmma season.the shootout is put on this board every year. should that race not be on this board or even talked about. there a racers more so than not that race more than just nmma tracks. how about 10,000 to win in little rock. the problem is pat not the members is picking what should or shouldnot be on this site. the nmma is democracy not a dictatorship like he makes out to be by his actions. people like your self have the right to see and say what they want. rick you are the only one person how has voiced what they think. if pat can choose for you what you see than you can not have a choice or opinion.i know of a lot of people or maybe all the people would like to make there own minds up.


troy

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" Outlaw Races -- Rick Moss, 08:08:10 09/29/06 Fri (static-209-107-225-35.consolidated.net/209.107.225.35)

Here is a new idea... Is Will Rogers still and NMMA sanctioned track? I don't see them listed on the 2006 sanctioned tracks list. Last I checked, this was an NMMA message board. I personally think the NMMA has every right to not post events from tracks that are no longer sanctioned with the NMMA (not including an outlaw event at an NMMA sanctioned track). Call me a fool, but why would you expect an outlaw track be allowed to advertise on a board provided by the NMMA. Think about it people!

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[> Re: Outlaw Races -- troy, 08:30:59 09/29/06 Fri (ppp-70-128-125-29.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net/70.128.125.29)

>i think most people that race like to try new tracks and whould like to race after the nmma season.the shootout is put on this board every year. should that race not be on this board or even talked about. there a racers more so than not that race more than just nmma tracks. how about 10,000 to win in little rock. the problem is pat not the members is picking what should or shouldnot be on this site. the nmma is democracy not a dictatorship like he makes out to be by his actions. people like your self have the right to see and say what they want. rick you are the only one person how has voiced what they think. if pat can choose for you what you see than you can not have a choice or opinion.i know of a lot of people or maybe all the people would like to make there own minds up.


troy

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