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Date Posted: 12:44:25 05/06/14 Tue
Author: Alicia
Subject: Paraguay

INSP just finished the Paraguay arc, with the infamous things will never work between us. INSP doesn't do the best editing jobs, and scenes are obviously cut. However, thanks to youtube and other avenues and purchasing dvds, I hopefully have all the scenes of the shows. Just wish I had the ones that were left on the cutting room floor.

No doubt watching a show over the course of 10 years, or as I have in a very short time provides different character perspectives and thoughts. Also I've had to go digging for various bits of backstory that would maybe have been known then, but not now.

It's unfortunate they didn't have a solid showrunner at the time to keep the continuity when DPB/NCIS, CB/Movie/Pregnancy, DJE/Contract/DPB by accounts all converged at the same time.

To me there were some good points in the arc. I don't know what the addition was, or not that he didn't look good before, but DJE was steaming hot in this arc.

I actually liked the fake marriage story.

Always good to see Gunny.

That was it for me. To me characters were not the characters. After episode of episode with AJ not leaving anyone behind, especially in the throws of Webbs game, that goes out the window. Am not sure why, but this point really bothered me. It also split the Webb Rabb dynamic for me, which to me is better than the Webb Mackenzie dynamic. Instead of better and stronger the characters were left broken.

It also is a bit surprising that the powers that be thought that plane crash, if contracts were not reupped, was a suitable end for the character of Harm. I wasn't aware of that the first time I had glanced through the scene, but knowing that watching it-- ick.

It's a shame because though the story and the character's involvement was far-fetched, it could have been a great arc, setting up so much for the next seasons. Actually with some tweaks to the story, Harm should have been in Webb's place..with both having to make difficult choices..and both dealing with the ramifications.. and a slam down of Harm's control issues.. Could have been powerful stuff... but I digress...

I am curious what others who still visit this board thought of Paraguay..

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Replies:

[> I actually got super excited that it would build up to finally getting Harm and Mac together,in an exciting caper, and fully in a setting to pour their hearts out and get it together....oh well -- mj, 15:46:26 05/06/14 Tue


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[> When I first saw the cliffhanger ep, I thought it was exciting at first. But looking at the arc as a whole, there was so much to make even the most ardent anti-shipper, angry. How could so many things be wrong? (Inside) -- Cece, 17:09:49 05/06/14 Tue

This arc was really devisive, and I recall almost knock down fights on the boards. Wow, everyone was out in full force, and no one was happy. The idea of Mac pretending she was pregnant was a great idea, and one that was put forward months before by one of our posters, (I think the Chief...I could be wrong.)

But oh goodness, where to start. The episode where Harm had the fake marriage literally made me angry. To me, it was a huge slap in the face from DB to the shippers. Here was a romantic kiss, with full orchestra, and looks of longing, but NOT with Mac. I hated this episode because of this. They made it look as if Harm was really into it.

Next, AJ's little speech to Harm. So antagonistic towards Harm, and no understanding at all.

Then there was the lack of any reaction when Harm gets to Mac. I came up with all kinds of reasons, the biggest being that we don't know what Mac said as the scene cut off abruptly. But that wasn't the point. They SHOULD have shown her reaction. We should have seen the terror, and the emmense relief. We should have seen Harm with his arms around her as he got her out of there. We should have seen Mac as a human being not an automaton.

Next, there was the YUCK factor of Webb and Mac sharing a toothbrush. At this point, did anyone actually like Webb any more?

Then there was the idiocy of taking a plane to attack the camp, in an unauthorized hit in another soveriegn country. Why not just escape in the plane? And putting them both in danger just to be the hero? Oh come on.

Then the unfriendliness of Mac and Harm towards each other.

THEN, the one moment when they were on the bed and there not only might have been, but SHOULD have been, a kiss.....and frigging WEBB barges in. At that moment, I hated his guts.

Then Harm shutting down all over again and tabling the conversation, and Mac saying it's never going to work etc.

The Mac haters were out full force. The anti-shippers were out full force. The Webbies were...oh who cares what they were. The shippers were in despair, and what's more, it got worse from then on.

What the hell did we get? The annoying, irrelevant Mattie story, the "I've got a date with Webb," mantra, the unbelievably slimy Mac/Webb affair, with Mac debasing herself at the feet of a completely nasty character. We got the horror of leering Vukovich and the new crowd, and the last half of S 10 a complete write-off. Then the infamous 7.5 minutes of a scene that looked like what it was: a tacked on bit of nonsense at the end of a series finale, that was not about the whole crew, but all about Vukovic.

The kiss was too little, too late. I won't even mention Harm saying, "I love you Mac, BUT......" Totally disgusting behaviour by TPTB towards a loyal fan base who loved the Harm and Mac possibilies that we'd been teased about for 9 years.

I remember the final Fanfest when JAG was over. I couldn't bring myself to go and listen to the speakers and apologists.

Yes there were some good moments, and fairly decent eps, (What If? springs to mind.) And I will always love JAG and the fun and friendship this board brought. But I can't forgive TPTB for ruining a great show.

Aren't you glad I didn't say what I really think?


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[> [> LOL we are so glad, an am,azing show that can still get out riled up almost 10 yrs later, Wish what we are getting on Castle could have gotten on JAG. -- Hope, 19:55:11 05/06/14 Tue


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[> [> [> AMEN! With the wedding in a couple of weeks, got kinda worried last night when Becket was going after the 'big buy".....lol -- carramor, 21:00:23 05/06/14 Tue


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[> [> Well said, Cece! You bring back allthe frustration we felt ans suffered. -- manette, 22:31:11 05/06/14 Tue


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[> [> Insightful comments, thank you! (inside) -- Alicia, 12:59:07 05/07/14 Wed

Your comments I think to me are reflective of why I think JAG was more of a phenomena than an ordinary tv show. I can also see the up in arms aspects.

I have to say something in re Vukovich.. I think that character was insulting, once again slapped the show at its core, etc..etc.. and just plain icky. In my watching, the fact that they were trying to draw parallels between him and Harm's character, irked me. I haven't seen all of his scenes, as I refuse to watch them. I scan right over him.

Mattie could have been written better, though I see why of that and what it was supposed to do, though it didn't happen. In fact it created an odd parallel... He wouldn't go to London without Mattie, but he would have left Mac.

I will say though season 9 has one of my favorite Harm lines. I think its Close Quarters-- but his first episode back when AJ is picking at him and his nature.

Harm's I need to know what is expected of me, am I to prove myself or be myself. That line rang true on so many levels.

Mac..well for me, the jury is still out...my opinion on the character changes.... I'm sure it will change again with my next viewing :-).

Have a great day, and thanks for your thoughts!


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[> Inside too long -- Laurence, 13:57:31 05/07/14 Wed

The DVDs being too expensive for me ( and without forgetting than in my country we don't have the extras ), I still haven't bought them. We don't have to forget than Bellissario wasn't a shipper but his wife yes. ( have read this somewhere in a very far past ) I've been a die-hard shipper, but after the Paraguay * thing * I lost interest in if I was still wanted H & M becoming a couple . For me it was like, we say in my mother -tongue , ' les carottes sont cuites ', there wasn't a decent solution for this circus. Since that, I kept to watch the vids of the following episodes on internet, I came at a point where I was like for the last episode like ' let's hope they don't finish together, Harm in London and Mac in San Diego ' . We had had Webb, than I liked till this Paraguay fiasco and now Mattie, Mattie, Mattie and Vuckovick . ( sorry too lazy to check the spelling )
The characters, for me too, were out of characters. ( Mac, Harm, Webb, the Admiral )
Like if DPB wanted to destruct ' everything '.


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[> I always thought we were robbed - what a phenomenal arc it would have been had it been Harm undercover with Mac not Webb - such a missed opportunity- but with DPB angry at DJE there was no chance in hell for any more good Harm scripts. -- chris k, 17:22:16 05/08/14 Thu


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[> [> The only problem with Harm and Mac being undercover together is that who would rescue Mac right before they fire up the car battery? Harm had to be the hero to swoop in and rescue her, BUT, after that it went all wrong. INSIDE.... -- The Chief (I haven't read Cece's inside post yet, so forgive me if I repeat), 23:13:07 05/08/14 Thu

Instead of a deeply grateful "Thank You" from Mac, and an "I'm so glad you're alive!" from Harm, followed by a brief, adrenaline-fueled hug, we got "Oh, it's you" from Mac, and "tamp down my feelings" from Harm. PHOOEY! And I'm not even a Shipper, but I was rooting for that! I could see the writing on the wall and KNEW that post-rescue moment should have been better. After that, it was awkward and just went downhill. I didn't believe either of them really. "I forgot how beautiful you are"?? Really? Ugh. What a LAME line, Harm. HOW could you forget? Could have been "Suds look good on you." Could have been a playful, "need help washing your back?" (but then they couldn't have shown it on Prime time! LOL) There was no "intention" in that line, just regret and resignation. IMO. I've not watched it in ages, but that's kind of how I remember FEELING about it.

I understand that the end of the cliffhanger had to put some space between them again - it was their M.O. I think they were going for a redux of Adrift 2 where Mac is left standing in the rain at the end of the ep. This time, the writers tried to get them to face their situation, but it was awful and clumsy and awkward - AGAIN. Made no sense. Harm is left standing on the curb and what do we remember? Not any achingly beautiful emotion of unrequited love or anything like that, but a stellar cameo appearance by Commander Winkie.

Paraguay is why I will never buy any DVD sets past Season 7.


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