| Subject: Re: If the forum gets out of hand...deletion? |
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Date Posted: 12:26:14 09/02/05 Fri
In reply to:
Tom
's message, "Re: If the forum gets out of hand...deletion?" on 18:53:33 09/01/05 Thu
Well, I guess I now know where you’re coming from. Darwin’s theory of evolution was the root of today’s evil. The theory of evolution creates mass murderers. Everything was peachy until Darwin came along. And non-christians, and all those false christians are going to hell.
That’s really too lame to address.
By the way, the last pope admitted what everyone already knew: The church was aware of what was happening in the 20’s 30’s and 40’s, and chose to ”look the other way”. He was very sorry about that.
That the christian churches brought about the inquisitions is documented well enough for me, I don’t need to redo the research. The bible project was supervised by the same people who were running the inquisition, and destroying records of their daily activities was commonplace. History is full of accounts written by the victors, and the christian church’s cruelty and ruthlessness made them the clear victors of the day. But they couldn’t destroy the truth of their duplicity, despite their best efforts.
“Almost” means: In an infinite reality, there’s room for one God or several. The Norse, Roman, Greek, etc. multiple ‘Gods’ beliefs are equally plausible. Absolutes are rare, possibly non-existent in reality. Believing that is what makes me an agnostic.
I’m glad you think I have such good christian ethics, too bad most christians don’t. I had a conversation with a very old friend of mine who’s a christian pastor a while back on just that subject:
ME: “Do you agree with the concept of freedom of religion?”
PASTOR: “Of course.”
ME: “Do you believe freedom of religion applies to everyone equally?”
PASTOR: “Yes I do, selective freedom of religion would be a travesty.”
ME: “So everyone, christians, jews, muslims, satanists, wiccans, hindus, buddhists, etc. all share this freedom?”
PASTOR: “Well......I guess so...as long as they don’t hurt others.”
ME: “OK, let’s say religious freedom only exists within the boundaries of civil law. Religious practices that threaten the well being of others, or conflict with the equal religious freedoms of others, exceed the boundaries of the concept of freedom of religion -- does that sound reasonable?”
PASTOR: “I think so...I guess it would sort of depend”
ME: “Depend on what?”
PASTOR: “I’m not sure, this really feels like a loaded question.”
ME: “OK, how does this sound. Freedom of religion is a personal right, but another person’s freedom of religion cannot supercede or diminish your freedom of religion. Does that work for you?”
PASTOR: “Yes, I guess that makes sense.”
ME: “Great! Do you feel atheists and agnostics who choose not to join any religion, have equal status to those who do choose to join a religion? In other words, is their choice of worship, or lack thereof, included in freedom of religion?”
PASTOR: “Yes. To be valid, a freedom that applies to one must apply to all.”
ME: “I agree. So, in your estimation, freedom FROM religion is equally assured under the concept of freedom OF religion. Christians cannot be forced to live by satanic rule, muslims cannot be forced to live by christian rule, atheists cannot be forced to live by any church rule. But no one is exempt from civil law. Does this work for you?”
PASTOR: “Yes...But I don’t like where this is heading. Church law and civil law don’t always agree.”
ME: You’ve already confirmed that someone who has chosen not to accept the rules of your church are not bound by them.”
PASTOR: “I never said that.”
ME: “Then you don’t agree freedom of religion includes freedom from religion? Are you suggesting those who join a religion have rights exceeding those who choose not to join? And the cult with the biggest “flock” wins the right to negate the rights of all non-members?”
PASTOR: “I never said that either. Social dynamics cannot be reduced to simplistic definitions.”
ME: “I believe it can. How’s this: ‘While we have many rights in common, your rights end where mine begin; there is no overlap; my rights cannot negate your rights; your rights cannot negate my rights. Our mutual rights combine to support and strengthen our shared individual rights, but our individual rights never supercede the rights of each other.’ Does that simplistic definition pretty much cover it?”
PASTOR: “I certainly can’t invalidate that statement, but I won’t confirm it as an absolute.”
ME: “Let me simplify it a bit; You can’t assign me one set of rights, while assigning yourself a more “expanded” set. I can’t selectively modify your rights as my “needs” dictate either. How’s that?”
PASTOR: “You’re a real pain in the ass. But, put that way, I have to agree.”
ME: “Awesome, we’re pretty much in agreement. Now, how can your church attack people that have never done you any harm, people who are for the most part complete strangers?”
PASTOR: “That’s ridiculous, we’d never do that!”
ME: “Didn’t your church join in the boycott of the Disney Corp, because the Disney Corp chose to recognize gay couples as having rights equal to your own?”
PASTOR: “That decision was made at a much higher level than my little congregation.”
ME: “But you went along with trying to deny homosexuals access to food, shelter, clothing, health care, etc. By trying to force employers to deny homosexuals jobs, and therefore the ability to survive. You were not only denying homosexuals their freedom FROM religion, but rather clumsily attempting to commit mass murder. Fortunately for everyone, the attempt failed through sheer stupidity.
PASTOR: “Homosexuality is a sin.”
ME: “So is murder, or attempted murder. But religious morals are real flexible where crimes against anyone not tithing the “church” in question are concerned, aren’t they?”
PASTOR: “You don’t understand the dynamics of God’s will.”
ME: “How do you understand the dynamics of God’s will?”
PASTOR: “Through the bible.”
ME: “How does the bible justify the concept of persecuting strangers?”
PASTOR: “The bible doesn’t.”
ME: “Then clearly persecuting witches, homosexuals, etc. [or darwinists] goes against God’s will!”
PASTOR: “Christianity has tides christians must ride to follow our journey.”
ME: “Even at the expense or suffering of others?”
PASTOR: “You will never understand.”
ME: “I sincerely hope I never do.”
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