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Date Posted: 12:46:31 10/10/11 Mon
Author: mkim
Subject: Loved Pan Am last night!!!!

Love the history in this show, love the glamour, as always.

The different points of view, some really unexpected, of Kennedy's speech at the Berlin wall.

Love the intrigue, surrounding Kate's second 'job' if you could call it that.

Collette broke my heart, and made me look at that time in an entirely different way. It was not quite 20 years after the end of WWII when this happened, whats that, like 1991, to us? Her pain and memories so fresh, you could feel them.

Excellent episode, excellent show.

Any thoughts??

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Replies:

[> It was certainly interesting. Iīm starting to really get into this show. Berlin didnīt look much like the Berlin I know (but then again, the first time I was there was in 1998). I wonder, with all the German speaking that was going on, did they show subtitles? Otherwise the significance of Colette singing might be lost on a lot of people.. -- Jam, 18:07:58 10/10/11 Mon [1]


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[> [> I thought the anthem was especially powerful. I heard it the first watching Casablanca, many many many years ago. This song coming from Collette, so many years after WWII was just another way the writers, IMHO, showed a different point of view than we saw, in our nice safe country in 1964, -- mkim I like all the characters for different reasons, but Collette is very intriguing., 12:17:28 10/11/11 Tue [1]


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[> [> [> The anthem itself was already powerful, I agree, but the lyrics really made that scene, and itīd be a shame if that was lost in foreign language. -- Jam, 12:24:49 10/11/11 Tue [1]


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[> First time I watch this show and I really liked it. I was wishing that there were German subtitles for many reasons and the song was lost on me. Could someone explain that? -- Cathy F., 00:17:30 10/11/11 Tue [1]


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[> [> Iīll have to explain a bit about the history of the German National Anthem. Inside... -- Jam, 04:50:19 10/11/11 Tue [1]

Hereīs a link with a lot of info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied

Essentially, , the Deutschlandlied, which later became the national anthem, has 3 stanzas, the first of which goes like this:

Germany, Germany above everything,
Above everything in the world,
When, for protection and defence, it always
takes a brotherly stand together.
From the Meuse to the Memel,
From the Adige to the Belt,
|: Germany, Germany above everything,
Above everything in the world! :|

When it was composed, there was no state of Germany, but rather a lot of smaller states with their own monarchs. So the meaning here is that a unified Germany is to be desired above all else (several sovereign states). The second stanza is about women, wine and song (and might just be a drinking song, it was even intended as such), and the third stanza is what is actually the official national anthem today:

Unity and justice and freedom
For the German fatherland!
For these let us all strive
Brotherly with heart and hand!
Unity and justice and freedom
Are the pledge of fortune;
|: Flourish in this fortune's blessing,
Flourish, German fatherland! :|

The entire song became the national anthem in 1922; then the Nazis used only the first stanza and took it out of context to claim their "superiority". After WW2, it wasnīt sung anymore and until 1954, Germany had no anthem at all. It was then decided to use only the third stanza as the national anthem, and this was also used as the national anthem for the unified Germany in 1990.

Long story short, Colette was singing the first , "Nazi" stanza, which in 1963 had essentially been banned.


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[> [> [> This is very interesting. Thanks, Jam. -- Lee, 14:55:14 10/11/11 Tue [1]


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[> Well, I think we should be careful not to get too involved with this show since I read this today. Pan Am numbers dropped at about 27% with the infamous 18-49 group. However, numbers were down all around due to football which attracted 20 million people. I like Pan Am and the mystery surrounding it. I really felt for Colette and her tears were so realistic. Think of all the intelligence that was being passed around at that time. Who would have thought that a stewardess would be involved. -- jenks, 10:58:48 10/11/11 Tue [1]


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[> [> Dont they give us at least seven weeks, maybe thirteen, before they bring out the hatchets? I hope they do, jenks. While I love Bones and Castle, I'm so tired of crime procedurals or reality TV. This show has all the elements right now, interesting characters, history by the truckload, a generations many of us over 50 connect with, and I'm sorry, but I do believe we count. I love the 18-49 demographic, I have two sons in it, but I believe we boomers should get something out of our entertainment too. I havent written abc, yet...but I swear I will if they start making noises about dropping this. -- mkim They should at least give it a full season or two., 12:28:01 10/11/11 Tue [1]


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[> [> [> They already have the hatchets going. The Playboy Club after three episodes and a couple of others, mkim -- jenks, 15:07:59 10/11/11 Tue [1]


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[> Love Maggie Ryans character for her spunk, and directness, I understood her zeal for Jack Kennedy, but given what I know now, I'm so glad she didnt make that plane and all she got was a wave before he boarded his plane. That was enough, the expression on her face as she waved to him, was priceless and sweet. -- mkim, 12:35:24 10/11/11 Tue [1]


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[> Jam thank you for the explaination. My German history is pretty good since 1/2 my ancestors were German. But, I did not know the words to the song. I'm with you mkim I'm enjoying something a little different from the norm! -- Cathy F. Jenks wasn't Emma just Wicked tonight!!, 01:06:19 10/13/11 Thu [1]


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