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Subject: Where do you want to see Fordham football in 5 years? ... how about 10? Author: PA Ram [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 09:17:07 03/08/05 Tue 1. Patriot League - non-scholarship, just where we're at today. 2. Patriot League - but scholly. 3. CAA - best I-AA football in the country. 4. Other I-AA conference (new, existing ... whatever) 5. Division I - make the leap to the big time, ala UCONN. 6. Other? [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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Subject Author Date I want FU to join CAA as early as 2 years.. Our budget is already comparable to the scholarship schools.. FU would field a better team... receive more exposure geographically /Cable TV/print media etc..... Title X should not be a factor.. if it is a concern give scholly's to cheerleading.. a primarily women's sport.. Nova, Richmond, W &M are all solid academically .. CAA would also allow FU to play a 1A game each year.. If Nova /Richmond can do it why cant FU??? FU could also schedule 2 or 3 PL's as OCC's each year.. I see upside to joining the CAA.. (NT) #16 10:33:00 03/08/05 Tue Patriot League with at least partial scholie(20 per yr.?). We could continue with Lehigh, Colgate etc. and schedule some CAA-A10 and maybe a lower D-1A. If the NCAA effectively eliminates D1-A we would be able to compete without having to drop down or become football crazy. (NT) RamBam67 10:35:29 03/08/05 Tue PL will never have scholly's in ftbl... have had numerous discussions with a PL Head Coach at another school ( a life long friend of mine) and others on Board... Never going to happen.. CAA NOW!!! (NT) -- tomk, 11:06:13 03/08/05 Tue Re: Respectfully disagree...IMO, PL not as hidebound as Ivies with respect to scholarships. Though I don't love the idea of athletic scholarships, no question that they have a positive impact on the quality if student-athlete PL schools can now attract. I can see PL as a limited-scholarship FB conference (such as what St. Mary's and some others have used). (NT) -- Go...'gate, 16:03:24 03/10/05 Thu I would like to see us in the CAA or 1A (not that this will happen) if that is financially viable. There are Title IX implications to going to athletic scholarship ball. As I understand it, the value of the need based grants given to our fballers do not count and do not have to be offset by similar values given to female athletes. Under the CAA scenario, they do have to be matched. I've also read how FU fball somehow operates at a profit but in reality any "profit " is the result of fund accounting or some other bureaucratic approach. (NT) Jimbo65 11:21:48 03/08/05 Tue I think you are right and the cost would be prohibitive since we would not only flesh out the squad with full scholarships (most only have partially met needs now) and we would have to balance with similar appropriations with the women's sports that probably would require the addition of new squads. (NT) -- NCAA Nerd, 13:06:03 03/09/05 Wed Or dropping a men's team or two. (NT) -- Rambacker, 15:58:37 03/09/05 Wed I can see how each option has its temptations, but overall I love having us in the PL ... thus, I'd like either PL or PL w/scholarships. I still love the association with schools like Colgate, Holy Cross, Lehigh, etc. and love even more the great reputation that the PL has from an academic standpoint. (NT) PA Ram 11:36:13 03/08/05 Tue IMO, staying PL but having an upgraded stadium & facilities would be my best case scenario. I think the poor facilities are our only competitive disadvantage when recruiting (thoughts?). Plus, the PL has shown it can compete regularly at the top levels of I-AA as is. This way we still stay a highly competitive program in a highly competitive league, but we still get the positive academic association w/the PL. Just my .02 (NT) -- PA Ram, 11:37:54 03/08/05 Tue We need to dominate wherever we go... Then eventually get back up to Div. 1A where Fordham Belongs!!! (NT) FU '04 12:13:35 03/08/05 Tue The Patriot League will never go scholarship. It's been discussed internally at all levels, including the league & presidents and has been put aside as a non-issue. This coupled with the fact that the Ivies won't play us anymore makes the PL much less attractive. I'd like to see us create a long term plan for Fordham Football that includes a multi-stage process to include joining the "new" CAA Football Conference so we can play Villanova, William and Mary, Richmond, Delaware, etc, fund raise for a new state of the art football stadium at Rose Hill that includes a weight training center(con't) (NT) Rambacker 12:30:14 03/08/05 Tue coaches offices, "Lombardi Walk" with statues of the Seven Blocks and development of a tv plan to complement the CAA TV package(which will be a good one) so every Fordham home game is televised by YES or its new competitor. This scenario would support our goal of becoming the top Catholic university in the nation. It also positions us for a move to 1-A if that becomes feasable in the future. If we do it, we need to do it right. (NT) -- Rambacker, 12:35:44 03/08/05 Tue A footnote: under the CAA scenario, we can still schedule two Patriot League schools per season if we so choose. (NT) -- Rambacker, 12:39:55 03/08/05 Tue much depends upon future facilities! (NT) pjd 13:28:36 03/08/05 Tue Nice dreams but the CAA has 12 teams already. Why would they EVER want to expand? IF they were it would be for current CAA members like ODU. Finally, why would FU ever want to associate itself with a southern league, not to mention travel costs? The PL isn't stopping FU from being a premier I-AA program. Upgrade the facilities, get the best coaches and increase the budget. You have a chance for long term success in the PL. In the CAA, you're hoping for .500 seasons each year and never seeing the playoffs. (NT) -- colgate13, 13:57:07 03/08/05 Tue You are uninformed. The CAA will not be a "southern league". Half the schools will be north of Wash.DC. And we don't need to increase our budget - we already have a CAA/A-10 level budget. Fordham will never be a consistent winner without full rides. Playing in the PL with need-based aid is a rooler coaster and we've had enough of that already over the last 20 years. Finally, the CAA will take us in a heartbeat and that's a fact. I'd check your facts before you jump to conclusions on our board. (NT) -- Rambacker, 18:21:13 03/08/05 Tue Re: Don't think of full rides as a panacea. Many A-10 schools ride the "roller coaster" even with scholarships. Richmond is one example; URI is another. Hofstra may be a third, based on the recent decline of its program. (NT) -- Go...'gate, 19:37:50 03/08/05 Tue Competing with need-based aid puts too much onus on the quality of the coach. Having full rides will allow for a consistent level of talent, no matter who the coach is. The Patriot League has served its purpose for Fordham - namely to allow for the transition to 1-AA. Now it's time to move up and have a program that supports our mission as a university. (NT) -- Rambacker, 21:58:22 03/08/05 Tue You just hit the nail on the head Rambacker. Its time to move onward and upward. (NT) -- CKRAM98, 08:55:07 03/09/05 Wed Not really. Coming from Dick Biddle's mouth many times: financial aid isn't the problem with getting recruits. It's admission. There are plenty of players out there that can be recruited with need based aid but can they be admitted, even with football support, to Fordham? That's the biggest hurdle. (NT) -- colgate13, 09:03:39 03/09/05 Wed The majority of coaches will tell you that recruiting with full rides is much easier than recruiting with need-based aid. And interestingly, because the offer is so much more attractive with scholarships, in many cases you end up with better student-athletes-meaning players that are better students. (NT) -- Rambacker, 13:46:19 03/09/05 Wed I had a conversation with a PL coach recently about a recruit out of my high school in FL. He said that while that school has many outstanding players he normally cannot get anywhere with them b/c they come from middle to upper class families. You are absolutely right, recruiting for non-scholarship is definitely harder, there is no doubt about that. (NT) -- JóDete93, 17:45:40 03/09/05 Wed How does affiliating ourselves with more big state schools in the CAA than we have now in the PL as well as starting to offer scholarships better "support our mission as a university"? (NT) -- PA Ram, 09:32:11 03/09/05 Wed The media coverage footprint for the CAA is much larger than the Patriot League. It will reach from Virginia to Maine and will provide much more television/print exposure. This is a region in which we recruit students heavily. The Patriot League is limited to PA, Hamilton, NY and Worcester, MA. Plus playing William and Mary, Richmond, Nova, Delawar, etc. provides good academic partners. And I believe Holy Cross will go CAA if we do. (NT) -- Rambacker, 13:50:54 03/09/05 Wed What about GT in DC? Why do you believe HC would be interested in CAA? (NT) -- DamnRam, 14:30:15 03/09/05 Wed The natives(read that alums and students) are restless at HC. They have a 20,000+ seating capacity for their stadium and have had paltry crowds and big problems trying to be competitive without scholarships. There are lots of HC alums that want their football program back. (NT) -- Rambacker, 16:01:26 03/09/05 Wed But Pres. McFarland and former Pres. Brooks are not inclined to go that route. A group of very vocal alums want it, but it's probably not enough to get the school to change. (NT) -- bfg, 08:01:02 03/10/05 Thu It's all about the HC Board. I'm told that the holdover Brooks supporters on the board there are dwindling and being replaced by people who may want a change. There are many lobbying. When was the last time HC had a winning football record? Stay tuned on that one. (NT) -- Rambacker, 10:11:24 03/10/05 Thu Holy Cross football has to be the last team ANY conference would want right now. No one will be taking them. (NT) -- colgate13, 10:44:52 03/10/05 Thu Incorrect. HC has a good football tradition and how many 1-AA teams have a 20,000+ stadium? With schollies they can win - without them they can't. (NT) -- Rambacker, 10:59:31 03/10/05 Thu Your last post may be true but that will simply help us with marketing Fordham to an expanded geography not better "support our mission as a university." Just my .02. (NT) -- PA Ram, 09:54:07 03/10/05 Thu My point is that marketing Fordham will be a major part of our future mission, so the expanded footprint serves that purpose. (NT) -- Rambacker, 10:13:12 03/10/05 Thu sorry to ruffle feathers but I'm not uninformed. The CAA IS a southern league. There are affiliate programs in football that are northern teams, but the league is centered around Virgina. The CAA will not take you "in a heartbeat" to create a 13 team league. Your budget isn't only for scholarship equivalencies. It's for the whole program: recruiting, coaches, etc. Does Foley make as much as Keeler? Doubtful. Your hope that scholarships will magically bring in better players is out of touch. URI, Sac St, SMS, Elon, etc. all have schollies but aren't lighting up the gridiron. (NT) -- colgate13, 09:00:59 03/09/05 Wed You are in fact uninformed. The northern schools in the CAA will be full-time football league members, not "affiliates". Why has the A-10 had 3 1-AA National Champions over 10 years? Scholarships. Foley will be paid accordingly - not a problem. I suggest you get your facts straight and not stretch them to make a point - the CAA will accept us if we choose to join. That's a fact. I know you want to keep Fordham in the PL but you lose credibility when you are so off on the facts. (NT) -- Rambacker, 13:56:30 03/09/05 Wed keep telling yourself that. The SoCon's had 3 too. Why not join them? What facts am I stretching? and can you please support your "Fact" that the CAA will accept you. The A-10 would have, the CAA? Nope. Try this thread on for size: http://www.anygivensaturday.com/cgi-bin/board/cutecast.pl?session=S2v3rUT9OLvgFAkDFTqQOMOWIS&forum=4&thread=9197. I'm hardly the minorty here. (NT) -- colgate13, 15:24:49 03/09/05 Wed Every statement you have posted is incorrect. You have a bad case of wishful thinking. And get your own sources - I'll hold on to mine, thank you. Let's let this play out and then we'll see who has the facts straight. (NT) -- Rambacker, 16:04:24 03/09/05 Wed Re: Where do you want to see Fordham football in 5 years? ... how about 10? RamRay 10:45:47 03/09/05 Wed I'm with you. One thing - please type all of your stuff into the "Message Subject" line so we don't have to go into every post to see what's been posted. I did the same and received similar guidance when I first posted here, so I figured I'd pass it along. Good points, imo. (NT) -- Ramalamadingdong, 10:55:03 03/09/05 Wed The Patriot League will never go scholarship. It's a moot point. Already discussed by the Presidents and rejected. A recent quote from a Patriot League official: "You will not see scholarships in the PL in our lifetime". And the CAA Football Conference will not be a "southern" conference. As a matter of fact, most of the schools will be north of Wash. DC. The dreams of Fordham fans of joining the CAA Football League are far from over. I predict that within 3 years we join the CAA in football and Holy Cross joins us there. (NT) -- Rambacker, 14:02:23 03/09/05 Wed What is the basis of the HC to the CAA prediction? Is their administration making noises about actually moving their moribund football program up to the next level? (NT) -- DamnRam, 14:32:36 03/09/05 Wed See my response above. (NT) -- Rambacker, 16:10:37 03/09/05 Wed well this is like banging one's head against the wall. Fine, predict all you want but when Fordham and HC are still in the PL in 3 years and the CAA didn't come begging for you, please come back an apologize. And smarty pants, it still is a Southern league. Sorry, that's the brand. Oh, and Hofstra's not going to support you joining either. (NT) -- colgate13, 15:21:52 03/09/05 Wed Hofstra is irrelevant - they don't come close to carrying the NY market. We do. And it's time for a geography lesson. Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania and Delaware are not "southern" states. Fordham will be offered membership in the CAA Football League. (NT) -- Rambacker, 16:08:47 03/09/05 Wed Your geography isn't the problem. It's your definition of the CAA: Delaware, Drexel, George Mason, Hofstra, JMU, ODU, Towson, UNCW, VCU, W&M and soon to be Northeastern. The weight of that conference is south my friend. Football is an add-on. And FU will still be in the PL for the long haul. Feel free to eat crow in a few years. (NT) -- colgate13, 09:30:38 03/10/05 Thu Man, are you stretching here to find an argument. The CAA basketball schools have nothing to do with this - this is a football league we're talking about. Nothing else. And most of it is north of Wash DC. End of argument. Let's see what the future brings. (NT) -- Rambacker, 10:15:58 03/10/05 Thu "Hofstra is irrelevant - they don't come close to carrying the NY market" What's important is not whether or not they control the NY market, it's whether or not they can influence CAA expansion that they oppose. The fact that they're a full time member and we would only be a f-ball member (at most) makes it way more reasonable that they can keep us out of the CAA. (NT) -- PA Ram, 09:48:17 03/10/05 Thu They can't and won't keep us out of the CAA Football Conference. They have very little juice in the league. That's a fact. (NT) -- Rambacker, 10:17:44 03/10/05 Thu Re: "A recent quote from a Patriot League official: "You will not see scholarships in the PL in our lifetime"." Since you put it in quotes, it must be exactly what was said. Out of curiousity, who said it and, in the name of the linky poster, is there a link that has the quote? (NT) -- PA Ram, 10:03:53 03/10/05 Thu Re: I can't imagine Femovich saying anything like this. I have met her on several occasions and she is very careful of what she says. So who was the source? (NT) -- Go...'gate, 11:22:42 03/10/05 Thu Another league official. Believe me - it was said. I heard it in person. (NT) -- Rambacker, 12:47:37 03/10/05 Thu Sorry Rambacker, Colgate13 has solid points: even if the CAA blows up to a 16 member league, there are enough scholies lining up to join, FU will not get an invite. Just make the PL stronger! (NT) RamRay 09:19:33 03/10/05 Thu I think one of the AGS posters from Maine said it best: why would the CAA want to take one or two programs with, according to CAA standards, marginal support for football? Then, why in the world would ANY conference expand beyond 12 teams? FU's only hope to leave the PL was if the A-10 tried to keep the northern schools in a new league. And BTW, I wasn't asking for sources. You said FU would admitted to the CAA "is a fact". Where's the facts bud? It sure sounds like opinion to me. (NT) -- colgate13, 09:27:15 03/10/05 Thu I know you want to believe otherwise, but the new CAA Football Conference will take Fordham(and Holy Cross) if we want to join. When you know something that important, it's vital to get the word out. And that's what I'm doing. (NT) -- Rambacker, 10:22:43 03/10/05 Thu That's wishful thinking on your part. Colgate13 hasn't made one legitimate point. The CAA will take Fordham(and Holy Cross) in a heartbeat. Take it to the bank. (NT) -- Rambacker, 10:20:03 03/10/05 Thu 1 legitimate point? Oh, that's right, I've made several... Sorry if I won't be holding my breath for a 14 team CAA league anytime in the near future. Hello, Rose Colored Glasses? Meet Rambacker. I feel like I'm arguing with a 12 year old. Not only do you have inside sources that state "as fact" Fordham will be going to the CAA but you're also on the inside of HC's board and their decisions. Will wonders ever cease? Oh, and since when is a I-AA football conference a part of any university's major marketing campaign? Delusional... (NT) -- colgate13, 11:06:39 03/10/05 Thu Colgate is a fine school so I'm surprised at your lack of reading comprehension skills. I didn't state "as fact" that Fordham will be going to the CAA - I stated that they will be invited. And yes, the future of our football program will be part of our marketing campaign, as it should be not only at Fordham but at Colgate. I'm surprised at your naivete. (NT) -- Rambacker, 12:52:08 03/10/05 Thu Don't go there. I will reserve the childish academic arguements out of respect for my Fordham friends on these and other boards. You're only making a fool of yourself with your outlandish and ridiculous claimsof facts and quotes that no one else has access to. Playing football in the CAA will be a part of the Fordham marketing campaign? FU may market D-I sports and football in general, but the CAA affiliation is hardly a component. On a good note though, FU football looks to be a force to reckon with next year. The Seven Blocks of Granite have all been found in your head! (NT) -- colgate13, 15:04:23 03/10/05 Thu You've made it clear that you don't like what I know about the situation. I don't blame you for wanting to keep Fordham in the PL, but you need to start dealing with reality. Everything I've posted is true - if you don't know what is really going on, it's better just to not say anything. You are in fact making a fool of yourself by refuting what you know nothing about. And if you are so naive that you think Fordham won't consider the exposure it gets from its athletic teams as part of its future marketing, I can't help you. You should let it go, you are embarrassing yourself. (NT) -- Rambacker, 18:15:15 03/10/05 Thu LMFAO! Thanks I needed a good laugh. Please, tell us where this information is located to verify that it's true. It's your pie in the sky dreaming and your made up or wishful sources. You claim to have heard things from people's mouths-well so have I. Big deal. If FU really wants to go to the CAA, have fun! Best of luck! Sure hope it's better than FU's transition to A-10 basketball. What's that overall record since the transition, 83-175? CAA football, sign me up! And reread my thoughts on marketing. Athletics as part of marketing: Yes. The CAA brand as part of marketing: No. Later "Insider"! (NT) -- colgate13, 08:29:48 03/11/05 Fri That's enough. Over and out. Oh, and our transition to CAA Football would be smooth as silk. We'd be winning in that league 2-3 years after joining. Full scholarships will take us over the top. (NT) -- Rambacker, 09:21:43 03/11/05 Fri In closing, Fordham will get an invite from the CAA Football League in the next 2 years. Take it to the bank! (NT) -- Rambacker, 21:57:56 03/28/05 Mon I have heard from many that Fr. McShane grows tired of alums pushing for a jump. McShane likes the PL for FB so Rams will stay in the PL for a long time to come. (NT) RamRay 10:48:29 03/14/05 Mon Re: Great; hope that FU will stay and grow even stronger along with the PL. FU is a great school and PL is fortunate to have them. (NT) -- Go...'gate, 11:37:37 03/14/05 Mon There are other priorities right now at Fordham besides moving up to full scholarship 1-AA football. But alums will continue to lobby for it over time and everyone knows money talks. If there is success in generating support from substantial donors, we could see a move. This story is far from over. (NT) -- Rambacker, 15:05:52 03/14/05 Mon Re: Fair enough. Clearly, there are going to be continuing changes in the Division I football landscape and schools having the unique academic/athletic combination such as Fordham, UMass, VMI, Richmond, etc. will all have important choices to make. (NT) -- Go...'gate, 21:16:17 03/14/05 Mon No matter what ends up happening with Fordham Football in the future, I know everyone associated with Fordham has the utmost respect for Colgate as an institution. And you are a respected representative of that institution. (NT) -- Rambacker, 22:06:37 03/14/05 Mon