[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement:
Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor
of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users'
privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your
privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket
to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we
also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.
Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your
contribution is not tax-deductible.)
PayPal Acct: 
Feedback: 
Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):
[ Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 20:14:53 06/07/11 Tue
Author: TF
Subject: Plastic surgery
Case #1.I have a friend whose sister had her tummy lipo suctioned 2 years ago. She had all the kids she wanted and she was left with tummy fat that would NOT exercize or diet away. It looked really nice...for about 6 months then it all came back and then some. Mind you she didnt continue to exercise afterwards either.
Case #2.A coworker had gastric bypass with awesome results and she is 4 years in. She was morbidly obese with high blood pressure and diabetes. She is now non diabetic and her blood pressure it quite normal.
Case #3. Botox. There are so many actresses who used to be classic beauties. Not knock yer socks off sex kitten gorgeous but truly classicly beautiful. Now they look like god awful frozen stare Cupie Dolls. Really scarey. My BIL has a sister who got bad botox and almost died.
My question to ponder is this (and I know it is a personal choice but my flesh and bone friends and I discuss this all the time)...when is it too much?
Personally I would consider lipo if I could afford it. I would consider a nose job only because my father broke my nose and it is a tad crooked. LOL I wouldnt advocate it for my teen girls of course cause they are perfect in my eyes but....where do you draw the line? When is perfection perfect?
Not starting any arguements. I would like honest grown up opinions on this. Discuss away. LOL
(lets not throw out any actor names as it tends to rile folks)
[
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
]
Replies:
[>
This is difficult. One thing is for sure: really well done plastic surgery you wonīt recognize as such. (Unless you have a before and after picture). Thereīs nothing beautiful about people where you see theyīve been surgically altered from 100m away. Botox is great if you have a stiff neck, but for minor wrinkles? A face is so much more expressive when it actually moves. Gastric bypass is not plastic surgery. Itīs a last ditch effort for obese people who are unable to lose weight otherwise, to help with all the side effects of obesity. Inside... -- Jam, 04:25:20 06/08/11 Wed [1]
Thereīs a lot to be said for reconstructive surgery (which it really is if you break your nose and it comes out crooked), and I understand people undergoing say, tummy tucks after losing a lot of weight or after several children. There is just no other way to get all that excess skin to go away. Or women having breast reduction surgery to alleviate back pain from all that weight in front. I have considered liposuction on my thighs, because I have a lot of built in fat right there that doesnīt respond to excercise at all. It makes it nearly impossible to find pants that fit. (I have a really slim waist to go along with the big thighs). Or blouses for that matter. Or dresses (they just donīt come in a two-three size difference between upper and lower half). I hate shopping for clothes , well, other than socks. So I understand people wanting to have some part of their body made just a little bit better. It really is hard to draw the line, though. This delusion about everyone having to be perfect looking? What IS perfect? The 18year old with breast implants because she considered her B cup too small? Surely not. Itīs easy to say, this is ok and this is not, at each end of the spectrum. I donīt agree with the youth obsession. The old wrinkly lady I saw the other day was so much more beautiful than the equally old botox victim with here face plastered with makeup on tv. But in the middle? I really donīt know where exactly to draw the line. What I do find, is that oftentimes people seem to take it all too easy. Oh, I can have liposuction, so I donīt need to exercise. Oh, I can have gastric bypass surgery if I get too obese, so I donīt need to take care of my eating habits and exercise. While surgery can help if all else fails, it is still risky and should only be considered if all other avenues have been explored.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
On the PS side. I'm not opposed to it as such, I just think you can have too much of a good thing. I also agree about taking GS out of the equation, but then do we put laser/lasic surgery in. Some people look stunning with glasses but feel miserable, should they be made to wear them anyway? On the makeup question above, it's interesting you should bring that up. We had a radio program last night asking if 9 year olds should be allowed to wear makeup. -- Katiegirl, 13:06:58 06/08/11 Wed [1]
I have an 11 and 7 year old, the only time they EVER wear makeup is when they are performing on stage - other than that, it is totally off limits except for some lip balm.
Back to the plastic surgery. I am sure we all have things we would like to change (mine would be to remove the crease from my upper eye lids), but just because I think that would make me more confident doesn't mean that I would actually do it. I see people having plastic surgery as a measure to help themselves feel good. I agree that unless you do the psychological stuff first it isn't going to help though.
As for the the thigh issue, I have a friend who has the same problem, drives her nuts - she has a size 10(NZ) which I think is 2 in America waist and size 14(NZ) thighs. She can't find anything that will fit her waist and her legs at the same time. She is also a size 10(NZ) in her upper body. So I can understand your frustrations.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
Maybe your friend and I should start a business....there has got to be a market for oddly shaped pants, we canīt be the only ones? Another things that always bugs me: why do clothing companies think if youīve got a big butt, youīve also got short legs????? Back to PS: I wouldnīt put lasic surgery in there, either, because it corrects a disability. Poor eyesight may not be a major one, but still is. Wearing glasses is not so much about cosmetics, but itīs getting in the way of sports (especially those that involve balls) and so on. -- Jam, 15:13:03 06/08/11 Wed [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
I have the same problem with the waist/hip ratio. My waist has remained small through the years, yet I seem to have "spreading six" disease, i.e. my butt has gotten bigger, along with my hips, and lower gut. I have at least a12 inch difference between my waist and hips, which makes it very hard to find pants, esp jeans. I have given up and just wear elastic waist pants and jeans. If you wear your shirt/blouse out, which is the style anyway, no one knows there's elastic under there! LOL -- JAG Junkie (Ronda)--late to the discussion, as usual, 13:36:50 06/11/11 Sat [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[>
I agree with Jam in taking Gastric Bypass out of the equation. It *is* elective surgery for most, but it is more medical than cosmetic. It has nice cosmetic effects (weight loss), but health is the #1 reason for it. So, for purely cosmetic/visual reasons, if you are unhappy with your body parts, you need to figure out why. You need to do the psychological work before you do the physiological work. -- The Chief, 09:36:56 06/08/11 Wed [1]
In a general sense, True Beauty really does come from within - from a happy, joyful, peaceful heart that is content with what he/she has and spreads that joy to others. When asked what her secret to looking so beautiful after 40, she said, "The best beauty treatment is being in love." Look at her now - blissfully married, raising two daughters out of that marriage, living a quiet peaceful life in central Tennessee... She's more gorgeous now than she EVER was in her 20s, because she's positively GLOWING from the INSIDE.
And I've seen other women who started out with less physical beauty than Nicole look just as gorgeous because of their happy, contented lives.
The following statements are not for everyone because they are religious in nature....
If you believe that you were created by God, and if you believe God makes no mistakes, then you have to ask yourself why you are unhappy with what God created, and what HE might have to say about it.
God also says our bodies are "temples" (i.e. because his Spirit dwells within those who believe), and we are to take care of them with that in mind. Be good stewards of what He's given us. If you're doing that, then what is the motivation for altering that "temple". The Lipo example is perfect here - the woman wasn't taking care of herself, didn't like the results (duh) and tried to deal with it in her own way. It didn't work because she continued to not take care of herself.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
I agree that true beauty comes from within however, inside... -- Jam, 10:45:17 06/08/11 Wed [1]
in order to shine, you need to be really content with yourself, and happy. Thatīs fairly easy if youīre popular, and you make friends easily, you have good self esteem, and a big social support system. But unfortunately, thatīs not always the case. You need to feel beautiful in order to be recognized as such - what if you canīt?
I also agree you should take care of yourself as good as possible and not take the easy way out by using surgery- because it wonīt work and itīs really not easy. And the psychological issue should be adressed more. But by doing that, surgery is another tool - not to reach perfection, but to remove an obstacle to feeling good in your own skin.
It goes without saying that this wonīt improve anything if you donīt keep working at taking care of yourself, in all areas.
I would give about anything to one day just go into a store, find clothes that fit (and actually have a choice of what looks good), and feel really beautiful. Just once. Btw, Iīm not obese. Iīm not even overweight anymore (yay!). Just badly proportioned. So I can understand the wish for plastic surgery.
What I wonder, in this context: Chief, I read here youīre opposed to PS and your religious views are at least part of the reason. How does make up and, say, dying your hair fall into that? Is it ok because itīs just dressing on the outside, or is it something to avoid? Iīm interested since weīre talking about where to draw the line, here?
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
Actually, Jam... -- The Chief, 14:22:05 06/08/11 Wed [1]
I'm not strictly opposed to it and never said I was. TF asked for discussion and I offered some from my perspective, but that doesn't mean that's the entire perspective.
There are extremes to everything. I've seen celebrities who have gone way beyond what they needed and turned out looking horrible. And I've seen celebs do things like have dental veneers and it really made great sense. I've seen folks who've had really beaky noses reduced and it looks much nicer.
What I was trying to point out was that there's always a psychological element to it if it's not for health reasons. If you're not comfortable with yourself, search your heart, talk with trusted advisers, see if you can find a way to "love" what you've got first, and THEN when you can separate the insecure emotions from it and decide that it still needs to be done, then fine.
I won't say someone shouldn't do it, unless it was going to be a negative health issue if you do do it. (like Michael Jackson) It's a personal decision. If a nicer nose or less cellulite or smoother forehead makes you feel better about yourself so you can get on with your life, great!
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [>
Ah, ok, thanks for clarifying. Thatīs actually very close to my opinion, Iīm just having difficulties expressing my thoughts... -- Jam, 15:04:32 06/08/11 Wed [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
Unfortunately many insurance companies see Gastric Bypass as plastic surgery and lists it as such. That is why I put it in this catagory. I personally dont see it as such but many in the medical realm do. -- TF, 15:44:48 06/08/11 Wed [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[>
I totally agree with you about Botox, I've yet to see anything I would envy or emulate in that. Gastic Bypass, I think its an individual thing. I have a relative who is 3 years in and she looks and feels better than she has since she was a child and thats no exaggeration. She also has her blood pressure and blood sugar under control, no meds at all. Plastic surgery, personnally, I'm so sick of surgery, you couldnt pay me to have the surgery. But for some it truly change their lives for the better and good for them. Its an individual thing too, and but not for me. -- mkim, 18:53:30 06/08/11 Wed [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[>
LOL- Fifteen years ago we went to visit family and my mom looked at one of her cousins and said how do stay looking so young. She answered plastic surgery. My mom said but you don't look it - and my aunt said the trick is to pick a good surgeon and make sure he follows your instructions - Mom asked what was the instructions. My aunt said "If you make me look like I had surgery I won't pay you." -- chris K -, 20:50:11 06/08/11 Wed [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
Haha! -- JAG Junkie (Ronda), 15:52:06 06/09/11 Thu [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
and that is a true story- lol. -- chris k, 03:45:18 06/10/11 Fri [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[>
I once had a roomate who had loads of really great plastic surgery. She looked amazing! However, she did nothing to improve her arrogant, condescending attitude she had toward people, and, in fact, the more physically beautiful she became, the meaner she got! I THOUGHT she would get happier after all the work and instead she got worse! inside -- mj, 05:21:34 06/09/11 Thu [1]
She married a super nice (and handsome) guy, but she treated him like a lapdog. I'm completely out of touch with her, so I just wonder how she looks now and if she's still married. I personally believe that maximizing whatever health and beauty you have, without surgery and Botox and fillers, etc., is the way to go and I think 'natural beauty' is actually more attractive -- wrinkles and all -- but I would never think poorly of someone who felt they needed it. It's an individual thing.
[ Edit | View ]
[>
This issue is a huge soap box opportunity for me so I'll try to restrain myself. (Inside.) -- Cece, 11:48:41 06/09/11 Thu [1]
I hate, with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns, the "Hollywood" PS look. It makes me angry to see so many men and women with this horrifying idea of youth and beauty, and frankly, you can always tell. That said, I am not against PS for corrective purposes,or mild changes to reduce under-eye bags, or broken noses, etc. PS is a godsend for those whose faces are disfigured either through accident or birth.
I can't understand why women would augment their breasts to the size of cannon balls, particularly if they live in colder climates, as huge breasts under winter clothing is not flattering. More importantly, breasts are part of a woman's erogenous zones, and I can't understand giving up that particular pleasure for huge, fake implants. AND even more important, I would never mess with my breasts for appearances, when the very real threat of breast cancer is there. However, breast reconstructive surgery after a mastectomy is wonderful. It gives a woman back her feelings of self, and is so much better than having to wear a very awkward breast prosthesis.
Gastric bypass...I'm totally against it unless the person is unable to move and needs a heavy duty truck to transport them. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm referring to the, at one time, biggest man in the world (1000lbs plus.) He lost most of his weight through diet though.
It takes years to become morbidly obese, and it takes years and hard work to lose the weight. That long time is when you learn how to live a different lifestyle. Like Biggest Loser or not, they have tried to prove that large amounts of weight can be lost with diet and exercise alone, but it takes a full term commitment and not everyone has the chance to do it. But I'm not convinced that many people want bypass so they can bypass the work needed to lose the weight more naturally.
Ultimately, surgury of any kind can save our lives. But all surgery comes with huge risks. My niece, Elizabeth, had necessary surgery for uterine cancer. The operation was a success, but she nearly died of a raging staff infection, and was in an induced coma for two weeks. That was 2002. In April of this year, Elizabeth had a triple transplant (pancreas, and two kidneys), all destroyed due to the complications of type 1 diabetes. Again the operation was a success, but Lizzy died of post operative respertory complications.
Yesterday, my brother had to have life saving surgery for a hiatus hernia that sent his stomach into his chest. It was do or die. I believe he is doing well, and I thank goodness the surgery was there or he would have died. So it really upsets me when people take surgery as if it's no big thing, and have plastic surgeon on retainer so to speak. Many of these PS nut jobs, with their botox, and collegen, no longer look that human to me. Sadly, most of them were good looking to begin with...sigh.
Lastly, make up on little girls...NO WAY, unless they are just playing around. Makeup accentuates our sexuality, and I am against the early sexulization of children. Period.
If it's not necessary, be very careful what you put your body through. With all the plastic surgery in the world, you are still going to age.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
This is you restraining yourself? LOL. Youīre right, though. This youth obsession is appalling. I once read an interview with a plastic surgeon based in LA. There are different forms of breast implants (round and more shaped like a pear, to give it a more natural look). He said, most of his customers wanted the round implants -they wanted them to look fake. WTH?????? As for the gastric bypass, Iīve seen some great successes with it, so Iīm more positive towards this. Inside... -- Jam, 16:52:59 06/09/11 Thu [1]
Once people reach a certain weight (and youīre right, they should have done something about it way before that point), itīs extremely hard to lose weight, the metabolism is way down, exercise is nearly impossible because all that weight puts such a huge strain on the body. Yet, for these people, it is vital to lose that weight and lose it fast. So yes, I thing gastric bypass is a viable option in these cases. Itīs still a huge risk - putting a body already that strained under general anaesthesia has many risks. But it might just be the lesser of two evils. And they still need to learn and change a lot about their lifestyle. They canīt go on as they did before. Iīve had a coworker who was that huge, and, with the help of GB surgery, lost that weight. He used to drink more coke in a day than I ever could in week (and thatīs saying something, I love coke, I can drink a lot of it) and he carried around this big bucket (a gallon or even more) that used to be his daily dose of coke. He now only drinks water or unsweetened tea, but he carried around that bucket to remind himself and oftentimes obese patients, about those much needed changes.
What I find appaling is the way gastric bypass is advertised as if it was just some sort of fasionable diet. Lose weight without any effort, get the lab band! Urgh, that makes me shudder. And it discredits the entire procedure and makes it harder for those who really would benefit from it to get access to it.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
Maybe the girls who wanted their new boobs to look fake want to show of the fact that the did it, had the $$ for it, etc. -- The Chief - It's not about natural anymore, 22:42:30 06/09/11 Thu [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
Cece, we're on the same page about botox and PS, absolutely. About GS, I hear you and definitely the best way to lose weight is through proper diet and exercise, but I think there are some exceptions.... -- mkim, 12:02:24 06/10/11 Fri [1]
First, let me say that self discipline, hard work and a determination to change your lifestyle is the best way to lose weight. I know, that you know that because you live it, Cece and I'm proud of you. You truly look great and even though youre busy as a bee, all that good energy just rolls off of you. (grin)
But I have to say...
when a person has made the huge mistake of allowing themselves to get 100 to 200 pounds over weight, with the complications that happen as a result, respiratory, circulation, even heart problems, the diet part of the lifestyle change may be doable, but without exercise(which most of these people cant do)substantial weight loss is almost impossible, the person eventually gets discouraged, then depressed and then the cycle, for many, starts all over again. The problem is compounded.
I understand that exercise to begin with, can be painful, but I'm not talking about normal aches and pains that come as a result of a body too long sedantary, I'm talking about a body that has gone through the wear and tear of carrying around a body too heavy for its frame(for decades in some cases)
The GB surgery allows for a more rapid weight loss at the beginning so that the stress on the heart, lungs and joints is greatly diminished and the person can begin an exercise program and truly begin to change the lifestyle that got them there in the first place.
GB like PS can be done really frivolously,(i.e. weight loss of 50-60 lbs) which is stupid and not what the surgery was originally meant for.
The program my family member went through required her to lose a small amount of weight to begin with, prior to surgery, to do some mild exercise to improve her pulmonary function. She had a very small frame and was nearly 200 lbs overweight. The thing was, she was working full time, while dealing with her weight issues, so doing that was difficult, but it got her into the program.
Initial weight loss was rapid, but it does slow down and will not continue at all, if you are not active, but she seized the opportunity and I cant tell you how her life has changed. She walked with a cane when she started all this, needless to say, she doesnt need it anymore. She is the kind of person the programs were meant to help. Its not about getting a bikini body, its about saving your life and elevating the quality of that life.
She'd tell you, yes, it was foolish to let her weight get this out of control, that her lifestyle compounded her problem until it nearly killed her.(I dont think she'd be alive today without that surgery and thats the truth.)
It did take years to get where she was, decades actually, but with her health issues, she didnt have years, to take the weight off.
I think GB should be a last resort, definitely, and its not for people who dont understand what got them where they are and there is enough reality TV out there, about obesity to show that some people, no matter how heavy they are, dont get why they are, where they are.(I reread this, it looks funny but I dont know how else to say it. lol)
Basicly...I'm falling back on my "Its an individual thing." lol.
The sad thing with GB is, you dont really know about the determination of the individual to take those changes all the way, until after the surgery.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
Yes, I was being a hardass on the GP, and I realise that there are many people for whom it is a last resort. But as the figures show that a very large percentage of people with large weight losses, regardless of their method, tend to put the weight back on again, I think surgery has to be viewed from every possible angle, after serious attempts at diet and excercise have been eliminated. It really shouldn't ever be about convenience. (inside) -- Cece, 13:12:05 06/10/11 Fri [1]
I'm not being overly dramatic when I say that death is permanently inconvenient. If your weight has reached a dangerous health risk, then you can't put your job first. Morbid obesity is as much an illness as any other serious, life threatening illness, and deserves the same medical, phycological, and physical attention and care. If all the medical wisdom suggests that GP is the only reasonable alternative, then who am I to disagree?
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [>
Its true, I've seen Gastric ByPass fail, miserably. It is as I said, its hard to tell who will suceed and who will fail until after the surgery. -- mkim, 09:25:50 06/13/11 Mon [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
I worked with a woman in the medical field who had the GP surgery. She lost a ton of weight but put it and more back on. It takes a lot ofdicscipline after this kind of surgery or you just stretch the stomach right back out again. IMO her insurance company should ask for their money back cause now they are paying for all of her medical issues caused by her obesity again. -- TF, 13:40:56 06/11/11 Sat [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
GB surgery. -- TF, 13:41:59 06/11/11 Sat [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
the part I don't get is the reason you lose weight after surgery is because you eat LESS and more frequently - So - do that without the surgery and you'll lose the same amount of weight - -- chris k, 20:04:49 06/11/11 Sat [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [>
Itīs the brain. Essentially, the stomach signals the brain when itīs full, so youīre not hungry anymore. That signal doesnīt get there, or too late, when the stomach is all stretched out. So a smaller stomach, that doesnīt hold so much food, will leave you less hungry much earlier. Of course (unfortunately for those that do not change their eating habits permanently) you can "train" it again to hold more food... -- Jam, 03:51:25 06/12/11 Sun [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[>
GB or the lapbelt is sometimes the last resort for many people. Sometimes it for medical reason. A person with a heart condition or bad back who can't exercise. I was a little 98lb person in my early adulthood now i'm over 200 lbs and have been seriously thinking of lapband. I have a heart condition, bad knees and a bad back. Please give fat people a break. We get enough crap from people laughing and critizing us. -- Cathy F., 19:20:32 06/13/11 Mon [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
Cathy, as a 6 yr member of Weight Watchers, who weighs in every week and stays for the meetings, I can tell you we are not laughing or giving you crap. (inside) -- Cece, 20:07:31 06/13/11 Mon [1]
There are many members who have lost a lot of weight, and have big health problems. On Sunday, we did a 5K sponsered by the Running Room and WW. One of the regulars at my meeting has lost 100 lbs, and she carries nitro glycerine for her heart condition. She looks wonderful, but it was not easy.
Please give WW a try. It is not difficult as there is no particular eating plan, and nothing is forbidden. You just learn new eating habits. Also, when my DH had a heart attack, and 10 yrs later,a 6 by-pass surgery, there were cardio fitness classes available that were designed for h.a. people.
Just take it slowly and do it with your medical and fitness professionals. You have the rest of your (hopefully) long life to make the changes. You will find your medical problems will improve with a lower weight, but try the non-surgical route first (if your doctor agrees.)
I wouldn't be at WW if I didn't know that without it, I would put all my weight back on again. As it stands, I've kept it off for 5 yrs (it took a year to reach my goal.)
Lastly, don't worry about other people. This is YOUR life, your health, and your decisions. Don't let your assumptions of other people's opinions of you, hold you back from getting fit and in good health again.
Gook luck Cathy. Email me if you feel like it.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
Good on you, Cec and Cathy F, good luck to you, whatever you decide. -- mkim, 13:17:53 06/16/11 Thu [1]
[ Edit | View ]
[ Contact Forum Admin ]
Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.
|
|
