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Date Posted: 17:17:24 04/10/04 Sat
Author: mt. healthy mountaineer
Subject: In reaction to Stu: some broad thoughts, organized poorly for they are off of the top of my head.
In reply to: stu 's message, "Re: Survival" on 23:59:19 04/08/04 Thu

Goes back to the greeks. Plato distinguishes between killing greeks (bad) and killing foriegners (good). This scenario breaks down as the world gets smaller and smaller. We are interconnected now.

Some history thoughts -

Nationalism is certainly pre-Greek. The ancient Egyptians had a anti-Hyksos rebellion (the only time they were ever conquered by a foreign power until Alexander the Great did it) that was most certainly a nationalistic rebellion - esp. since Hyksos is considered to be not the real name of the invaders but rather the Egyptian word for foreigner.

Many of the empires in the fertile crescent era had nationalistic ties as well.

Is the world really smaller and smaller in the sense that (I presume) you mean it? I can buy products from around the world - just yesterday I bought strawberries from Chile - but have I actually met the Chilean people? In ancient times there were so many more cultures that you were constantly rubbing shoulders with "foreigners" in the trading areas, etc. Here in America I buy goods and view entertainment and see web pages and eat food from around the world, but I basically live my life interacting with the same type of peoples as myself - for good or for bad.



Maybe it is just me, but when a plane crashes, I don't need to know how many people died. Not only do I not need a body-count, but I certainly don't need to know how many Americans died. Furthermore, I am discouraged by the distinction - as if American lives are more important - to me, to you. It's crap. People are people. It doesn't matter which side of some arbitrary line they live on (excuse the grammar.)

Having met a few newspeople, I doubt that they are meaning it that way.

Now I will go off on a tangent: What is pride in country? Where does this come from. I personally believe that one should only be proud of their own personal convictions and accomplishments, and perhaps those of thier progeny which are, in a way, their product. But pride in country? Anscestry? If you take pride in certain aspects of your country, then other aspects must fill you with shame. The same with your anscestry. If you are going to take pride in certain deeds of your anscestors, you must feel shame for others. I say, take pride only in your own actions. It makes sense and it is les complicated. It's also less likely to lead to aggression towards those who are "different."

I was thinking today, on a similar line - but differently, of course. I was musing that there are people that I know that have no larger connections, to speak of, outside of their immediate family. They feel no pride of place, of country. They've never been a part of something larger than themselves, be it a sports team an acting troupe or a church or an army. They are, I think, the poorer for it.

As for pride in country. I am proud of this country. I love it. I Am proud of my little state (Indiana) and its sometimes obtuse way of doing things.

Does that mean that it can do no wrong? Oh, far from it. I am a history teacher and I can point to dozens andthings that were done that are shameful and embarrassing (like what? slavery is the biggest in my mind, esp. from a country that espouses freedom). Does that make me ashamed to be an American? No. We grew and learned from it.

We do plenty now that I am ashamed of. Hundreds of thousands of abortions are performed each year - that is a shameful number even if you are pro-choice. Do I denounce the country? No.

On a similar line, my wife does lots of things that irritate the hell out of me. Do I focus only on that? No, I focus on the good, move on from the bad.

Does this mean that one should submit blindly to group-think and just ignore the bad and stare blindly and blandly at the flag and "drink the Kool-aid". Hardly. Look. Read. Speak up.

I have a lingering idealistic hope that reason will unite all human beings at some point before we destroy ourselves. There are rational reasons to be ethical. There are more universal unifiers than religion or nationality. These institutions devide as much as they unite. If you get rid of all that stuff, what is left to devide? Language? Easily overcome. Cultural differences? They will diminish with the dissolution of religion and nations. Scary new world order? Not if it's truly democratic. And we have the resources for such a society. Just a little optimism from a complete cynic. That's pretty good for me.

I'm surprised, Stu. Honestly surprised. I assumed from the other stuff you've written that you would be against "Globalization" - the anti-WTO crowd's favorite whipping boy.

What you have just longed for is the McDonaldization of the world. What I mean is - have you ever noticed that every McDonalds is the same, no matter where you go? I've eaten Mickey D's across the country and I can testify to that fact. You are advocating that every culture be the same - an amalgamation of all. So, there will be no unique art, food or way of doing things. We will all be attuned to the same cultural signals and mores. We will all be as concerned about being on time as Germans or maybe we will all be as relaxed about time as the Mexicans. We will all listen to the same music, watch the same TV (hope I like it - wait! Of course I will, we will all have the same culture.)

As for me - I hope it never, ever, ever, ever comes to that. That will be the day when this world has lost all of its cultural complexities and its richness. I love the fact that France has made hundreds of different types of cheese for who is more fascinated with cheese than France? I also love it that France thinks they're way more important than they are. What a pain in the ass France is! Good.

I love the fact that the Iraqis want us to leave - that's good and that's healthy.

I love the fact that Mexico is different than us. Time has little meaning and family is all-important. I also love the fact that we're not all like that.

I embrace the differences. I love them. If we were all the same than the world would still be filled with cavemen since no one's culture would have developed and valued any inventions.

I mentioned that I am a teacher. This year I had a special ed student whose ability is there but his brain works very differently than anyone else's. What everyone naturally understands, such as matching exercises he has to have explained to him. On the other hand - activities that no one gets at first he understands innately. He cursed himself for being different and I always stopped him and told him that those differences are important - we cannot all think the same or we will all be stagnant.

Likewise, we cannot all have the same culture...

Curse the stagnation! Vive le difference!

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