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Welcome to the Christian Theology Discussion Group where committed believers in the historic Christian faith meet to discuss matters of salvation and issues confronting the Church today.
DONATE YOUR $$$ TO THE "BUY DORI A MIRROR FUND" -- how blind are they who will not see, 08:19:55 03/22/03 Sat

dori
In Response To Hi mod
Friday March 21, 2003 at 23:52

What was the reason you let MAO come back? It seems he has a funny way of showing gratitude, doesn't he? You give the whiny little crybaby a place for him to whine and he still has to muck up the PP forum. Makes you wonder why he still posts here if he hates it so much, doesn't it? LOL! I don't think he's said anything different for weeks.

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ANOTHER DORIS JARVIS GROSS-OUT -- O-Gag, 12:42:36 03/19/03 Wed

dori
In Response To Gus
Wednesday March 19, 2003 at 1:05

"Do I make you all warm inside?"

......her continued failed attempts to cover having been exposed (again)

......dori, in the roll of "worst supporting actress of the www." has only served to dig herself deeper and deeper into a rat hole.

......A-I-R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Quit Carping & Prophesy, Already! -- Wanda, 23:05:07 03/16/03 Sun


"Word is made flesh as God reveals himself... as a fish "


Edward Helmore New York
Sunday March 16, 2003
The Observer


An obscure Jewish sect in New York has been gripped in awe by what it believes to be a mystical visitation by a 20lb carp that was heard shouting in Hebrew, in what many Jews worldwide are hailing as a modern miracle.

Many of the 7,000-member Skver sect of Hasidim in New Square, 30 miles north of Manhattan, believe God has revealed himself in fish form.

According to two fish-cutters at the New Square Fish Market, the carp was about to be slaughtered and made into gefilte fish for Sabbath dinner when it suddenly began shouting apocalyptic warnings in Hebrew.

Many believe the carp was channelling the troubled soul of a revered community elder who recently died; others say it was God. The only witnesses to the mystical show were Zalmen Rosen, a 57-year-old Hasid with 11 children, and his co-worker, Luis Nivelo. They say that on 28 January at 4pm they were about to club the carp on the head when it began yelling.

Nivelo, a Gentile who does not understand Hebrew, was so shocked at the sight of a fish talking in any language that he fell over. He ran into the front of the store screaming: 'It's the Devil! The Devil is here!' Then the shop owner heard it shouting warnings and commands too.

'It said "Tzaruch shemirah" and "Hasof bah",' he told the New York Times, 'which essentially means that everyone needs to account for themselves because the end is near.'

The animated carp commanded Rosen to pray and study the Torah. Rosen tried to kill the fish but injured himself. It was finally butchered by Nivelo and sold.

However, word spread far and wide and Nivelo complains he has been plagued by phone calls from as far away as London and Israel. The story has since been amplified by repetition and some now believe the fish's outburst was a warning about the dangers of the impending war in Iraq.

Some say they fear the born-again President Bush believes he is preparing the world for the Second Coming of Christ, and war in Iraq is just the opening salvo in the battle of Armageddon.

Local resident Abraham Spitz said: 'Two men do not dream the same dream. It is very rare that God reminds people he exists in this modern world. But when he does, you cannot ignore it.'

Others in New Square discount the apocalyptic reading altogether and suggest the notion of a talking fish is as fictional as Tony Soprano's talking-fish dream in an episode of The Sopranos .

Stand-up comedians have already incorporated the carp into their comedy routines at weddings. One gefilte company has considered changing it's slogan to: 'Our fish speaks for itself.'

Still, the shouting carp corresponds with the belief of some Hasidic sects that righteous people can be reincarnated as fish. They say that Nivelo may have been selected because he is not Jewish, but a weary Nivelo told the New York Times : 'I wish I never said anything about it. I'm getting so many calls every day, I've stopped answering. Israel, London, Miami, Brooklyn. They all want to hear about the talking fish.'

A devout Christian, he still thinks the carp was the Devil. 'I don't believe any of this Jewish stuff. But I heard that fish talk.'

He's grown tired of the whole thing. 'It's just a big headache for me,' he added. 'I pull my phone out of the wall at night. I don't sleep and I've lost weight.'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“According to two fish-cutters at the New Square Fish Market, the carp was about to be slaughtered and made into gefilte fish for Sabbath dinner when it suddenly began shouting apocalyptic warnings in Hebrew. “

My own non-sectarian view? ALL gefilte fish is “from the Devil” whether it launches into ecstatic utterance, or not! It certainly is not something one should consider placing in their mouth. OY!……..such a thing shouldn’t happen.

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Replies:

[> Quit Carping & Prophesy, Already! -- babeleh, 22:17:42 03/17/03 Mon


>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> “According to two fish-cutters at the New Square
>Fish Market, the carp was about to be slaughtered and
>made into gefilte fish for Sabbath dinner when it
>suddenly began shouting apocalyptic warnings in
>Hebrew. “
>
>My own non-sectarian view? ALL gefilte fish is “from
>the Devil” whether it launches into ecstatic
>utterance, or not! It certainly is not something one
>should consider placing in their mouth. OY!……..such a
>thing shouldn’t happen.

Vat a vaste of perfectly good fish, I tell ya. Gefilte fish doesn't even make a good door stop, and the smell already,.......oy!

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Tamarisk: You WILL Warn Us Before The Mother Ship Arrives, Won't You? -- pleeeeeze? just for old time's sake?????, 23:36:00 03/12/03 Wed


• tamarisk
In Response To PHH
Tuesday March 11, 2003 at 10:29
Thought I saw you post a link to infowars.com a few weeks ago. Have you ever listened to Alex Jones? He does about 6 hours a day on Genesis Broadcasting.
You might have liked the tape being played on the Powerhour by Joyce Reilly this morning. It was the local reports on the OKC bombing and the reports not heard on national news about the two other bombs being found and defused by the police.

Heard a shocking stat on shortwave last evening. The Digital Angel corporation has sold 25 million implantable mico chips to various customers. I suspect the majority are animals. ;)

• tamarisk
In Response To PHH
Tuesday March 11, 2003 at 10:36
The interesting thing is that technology is over 30 years old. The question was posed as to whether it could be removed. The guest stated the older technology chips could be detected by x-ray, while newer ones could not.
McVey long contended he was implanted with a chip. The person also stated he believed Bin Laden is implanted as a CIA operative. They know where he is but are waiting for the most politically advantageous moment to "nab" him.

Current technology is no longer based on GPS as just a single satellite is needed to track someone implanted with a chip. ”

RESPONSES TO TAMARISK:


• witness
In Response To Timothy McVeigh
Tuesday March 11, 2003 at 21:12
Did not have a chip implant. He was a demented fool who could not find a place in this society. His desire to be something clashed with his laziness to prepare. In a last ditch effort to leave his mark on the world, He attacked the very thing that gave him every opportunity to be successful in life. All his trials and tribulations were self generated and well deserved. He was a nutcase and a piece of garbage who got better than he deserved in the end.”


• Roadking
In Response To tamarisk
Tuesday March 11, 2003 at 21:12
“Sounds like you've been reading about those Urban Legends again! A single satellite can track a chip? Funny, since the current injectable chip has no GPS capability at all. It's supposed to be used to store personal info such as medical records for an emergency. The prototype GPS trackable chip is so large, it required MINOR SURGERY to put it under the skin. I seriousy doubt that OBL sat around under local anesthesia while the CIA plugged him in. And there ARE NO OTHER types of satellites used for tracking other than GPS. That requires a triangulation fix in order to find a location. Someone's been listening to Art Bell well into the wee hours, aren't we?? “


• Message Alignment Officer
In Response To Someone's been listening to Art Bell well into the wee hours, aren't we??
Tuesday March 11, 2003 at 21:56
“No, it's Geroge Norrie(sp) Now, and from what I can tell he's even more wacked out.”


• Roadking
In Response To MAO
Tuesday March 11, 2003 at 22:17
“Sure sounds like it! I used to listen to Bell late at night when I used to run OTR. The guy could suck you in with the paranoid, conspiracy stuff. But it only took a second of actual thinking to bring you back to reality again. Anyone who really believes that crap has skipped the thinking part. “


• Message Alignment Officer
In Response To Roadking
Tuesday March 11, 2003 at 22:21
“LOL once I worried that sleeping with his show on would mess with my mind, but when I woke the next morning I had to say" where do they find folks welling to sell that line of malarky.. “

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

tamarisk
In Response To roadking
Wednesday March 12, 2003 at 8:47
“Art Bell?? I know the name but have never heard the show. I know the subject matter he usually deals with though. It matters not to me what you think on the issue.
If you remember the Eric Helder, the mailbox bomber of a year ago, and how he was eventually caught. He was caught by cell tower/satellite technology. You can be tracked through wireless communications, i.e. cell phone communications. Getting your position by sampling 2 or 3 towers. I've read some on nano-technology and quantum-computing. Not an expert but I know that technology exists. “

~ ~ ~ Psssssst! Tamarisk tracking cell phone communications and supposedly having the CIA “implanting & programming” persons with “chips” that make them act in ways against their will, such as your suggestions regarding McVey and Bin Laden are a weeeeeee tad bit deferent, compadre. You are using the same intellectually dishonest tactic that your bud “Joyce” uses; e.g., sowing seeds of unsubstantiated hearsay and mixing and matching pseudo science, with items spewed from derelict fax machines, chickens, ducks and cranky disgrontificators. This destructive type of smarmy, dishonest story building that is based on multiple layers of pseudo “official” documents such as unproven newspaper articles (which even Riley infers are not valid at one phase of her indoctrination), and various non-verifiable sources mixed in a sorcerer’s priory-cauldron of conjecture.

EXAMPLE: Riley: QUOTE: ” Another document that I want you to remember as long as you live is this.This document appeared on my fax machine. I believe it to be the origin of the appropriation of the money to make the AIDS virus” The methodology of this Jezebel and her friend Tamarisk is dishonest and it makes me furious!


• Roadking
In Response To Forum
Wednesday March 12, 2003 at 23:10

”Tamarisk: Nanotechnology is decades away from having any useful results. Right now, the technology you talked about is nothing but a pipe dream. And cell phone towers are not the "single satellite tracking a chip" fantasy you talked about either. Those are all paranoid Urban Legends. Message Alignment Officer: Who would buy into the paranoid delusions of the Art Bell types? The answer is simple--anyone looking to justify their own paranoid mindset. And unfortunately, Bell and his ilk are still doing a great deal of business! Me? I just keep my delusions to myself-- it's less anoying to others that way. :) Good night!”

BINGO! Good Night.

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David Berkowitz aka "Son of Sam" Serial Killers & Former Satanist -- Davids testimony, 19:03:45 03/12/03 Wed

Davids testimony

David Berkowitz - "Son of Sam"

. . . . . now called "Son of Hope"
During the years of 1976 and 1977 and through his involvement with Satanism, David Berkowitz participated in a reign of terror that gripped the City of New York with fear. Over a period of thirteen months, six people died and seven others were wounded.

This is David's testimony of: HOPE

The police and the news media used to call me "The Son of Sam", but God has given me a new name, "the son of Hope", because now, my life is about hope. - David Berkowitz

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17

***

I want to greet you in the name of my precious Savior, Jesus Christ. I am so grateful to be able to share this message of hope, the message that God is good and His mercy endures forever.

For the people who were injured, who lost their lives because of my actions, I have no excuse. I know I've ruined the lives of many people. Now I look back and see that I was the biggest fool, and I did Satan's dirty work. I have nobody to blame but myself because I could have gotten out of what I was into. I have nothing but deep sorrow in my heart and regret over all that has happened. I can't undo what was done. I failed my family, I failed society, I failed my community. Like the apostle Paul said (1 Timothy 1:15), I was one of the chiefest of sinners. In my heart I wish I could just go back and change things, but I know that can't be. I will always continue to pray for the peace of the families who were hurt, that Jesus would help them through their great loss, their grief and suffering, and bring the saving comfort only He can give. Part of me will never forget and never stop sorrowing, and yet another part wants to move on and share the precious love of Jesus with people.

I WANTED TO DIE

I have been behind prison walls for 20 continuous years. The first 10 years of my sentence were, for me, years of darkness, defeat and despair. I had no purpose for living, and thoughts of suicide filled my mind. I was bitter, angry and miserable. I carried a "shank" with me anywhere I could get away with carrying it. There were a lot of people out to get me. I was living a vicious cycle of kill-or-be-killed.

In 1977, when I was age 24, I was involved in the occult, Satanism and on a rampage for the devil. I felt as if I were ready to die. Maybe I should have been killed when the police finally surrounded me with guns drawn. A few years into my sentence,while I was housed inside Attica prison, an inmate managed to attack me with a razor blade and I nearly died. With a sentence of 350 years plus life, and no hope of ever getting out, I struggled to survive. Yet another part of me just wanted to die. I should have died when that inmate slit my throat. I should have died during many other situations in my life because I was always in trouble.

I grew up in a loving Jewish home in the Bronx. My parents were caring people who gave me everything that they could. As far back as I can remember my childhood was not that of a normal child. It started when I was about five or six years old. I was completely uncontrollable. I would rampage through the house, sometimes overturning furniture. A tremendous force would come upon me and urge me to do destructive things to property or even to myself. Other times I would be in total silence to my parents and not respond to their outreaches of love. I would lock myself in the closet in the darkness and stay there for hours. I was depressed at times and my parents would have to pull me away from the window to keep me from committing suicide. I was a tormented child, always having psychological problems.

School officials sent me to a child psychologist. People couldn't cope with me. Now as I look back I understand that demons had me bound, even as a young child. I brought a lot of misery and confusion into the lives of my parents. As a teenager I wandered the streets at night, got involved in acts of vandalism and malicious mischief. It was only a matter of time before my whole life fell apart.

For reasons that I cannot fathom to this very day, Jesus made it His business to reach out to me with a love, a kindness and a compassion that I have never known before.

I MET CHRIST

There was a time back in 1987, one cold winter's night, when I was in the prison yard. Another inmate walked up to me, introduced himself, and boldly told me that Jesus loved me and had a plan for my life. After he said those words I laughed at him and told him that there was no way God could love me. I told him I was too evil, that he was wasting his time. But this man had such a compassionate attitude, and I saw that he was really sincere. I cannot describe it. Let's just say he had a special glow about him.

Although I rejected what he shared about Jesus, we became friends because I knew he meant well. We started working out, walked the prison yard together. Every day he would quietly and patiently share God's Word with me. At first, I just listened. But after several weeks my attitude began to change. One day he offered me a small pocket New Testament which included the Psalms. He urged me to read portions of it, especially the Psalms. Some nights I would peek into the Bible just to check it out. I had never read the Bible before. I started to read the Psalms for the first time in my life, and said to myself, "My God, these are some of the most beautiful words I've ever read."

Things began to happen inside of me. I really found myself enjoying the words of the writers, especially King David. It seemed as if he were talking directly to me because he also underwent many trials and hardships. King David's life, to my surprise, had a lot of pain in it. Oftentimes he was surrounded by problems and trouble. I said to myself, "Hey, this guy really suffered." I always thought that a king's life was supposed to be healthy, happy, exciting and prosperous. Yet I read how he cried out to God in his misery. I said, "I'm miserable, too." I was. But David's solution was to cry out to God for help and deliverance. Me? I used to cry into my pillow.

Then one day it happened. I was reading the Psalms, it was close to midnight and I was alone in my cell. It was at that moment that my heart began to burst. The words I had been reading began to pierce my soul. Everything hit me at once, my guilt, the anger, the shame at failing my parents, loneliness, past hurts…everything!

I POURED MY HEART OUT TO THE LORD

I began to cry like never before. I shut my light out, got down on my knees in the darkness, and began to pour out my heart to the Lord. This was all new to me. Feelings of grief and deep remorse welled up inside. I called upon the God of Israel and talked to Him as if He were right in the cell with me. I didn't even know if God was listening. I just had to pray. And He heard my prayer.

I WAS BORN AGAIN

When it was over I got up off my knees and I felt as if a tremendous load were lifted off me. This was the moment that I was born again. Although it would still take a while to see the whole picture, it was the turning point in my life - the start of a new life, even while still in prison. He lifted such a heavy load from me. I can't begin to tell you how good God is! I love Him so much.

As I said, this was in 1987. Nine years have since gone by. Right after I became saved I began to attend the chapel services and read my Bible with fervor. I started to fall in love with Jesus. I knew I was finally on the right road, a road of healing and hope. God began to flood me with His peace, even inside the prison house. And He is still working on me.

JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY

Now, after 20 years behind prison walls, I can only say that Jesus is the only Way. God has promised to deliver His people because He is a God of hope. Even for those who have not yet placed their trust in Jesus, the Lord is still offering hope if they repent of their sins and put their trust in Christ, the Messiah of Israel. I want to encourage you to put your trust in Him. It's good being a believer in Jesus. It's good experiencing His mercy and forgiveness.

Today, I just keep trusting in the Lord and I have completely given my life to Him. He's shown me His love and His mercy, even though I don't deserve it. He's my Comforter and He's my best Friend. Now I know that Jesus has set me free. Praise the Lord!

Let me tell you, I have been to Hell and back. I have made the biggest mess of my life. But, you know what? Today, knowing Jesus, serving our Lord, is the most exciting thing that can happen to a person. My life is not free of hardship or temptations, but living for Jesus is a challenge. Today I am overshadowed with His peace. I have no doubt whatsoever that I have been completely forgiven, that my sins have been forgotten, not by man, I don't expect man to forgive me, or society. I am responsible to live out the consequences of my actions. But God has thrown all my sins into His sea of forgetfulness. He's had mercy on me, a murderer and a devil-worshipper. And even though there is nothing good that I deserve from Him, He has allowed me to be a minister of His grace. There is joy flowing through me today because I know my Heavenly Father in a personal way. He's my God now, and I know that He's walking with me and He loves me and I love Him. I want to bow my heart before the Lord in loving obedience.

I am grateful for my heritage as a Jew and my faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It has helped me to understand the fulfillment of Scripture that is found in Yeshua, Jesus. Reading Isaiah chapter 53 with an open heart and an open mind reveals the Truth that Yeshua is that suffering Servant. There is no other person that can fulfill the Bible prophecies. The prophets talked about Yeshua. Read all of the prophets in the Hebrew Bible and you will find that everything points to Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah. As you search the Scriptures for yourself God will speak to you. He is the Messiah of the Jews.

I'm here to tell you there is hope in God through Jesus. The important question I would ask you is, have you trusted in Jesus as your personal Savior? I know what it is like to be in bondage to sin. I know what it is like to be shackled to Satan. Those cuffs can only be opened by Christ.

My message is plain. Jesus is calling people of all ages, of all races, to repent - to turn from their lives of sin, obey God by asking His Son Jesus into their hearts, to trust in His finished work on the cross, and have a new life in Him.

ONLY JESUS CAN FILL THE VOID IN YOUR LIFE

If there is a void in your life, an emptiness in your soul, I don't believe that money can fill it. I know that alcohol and drugs can't fill it. Knowledge and education can fill the human mind, but these things won't fill an empty heart. Sex won't do it. Neither will religion.

All have sinned. All need to repent and believe the gospel that Jesus, the Son of God, died for us, shed His atoning blood for us, that He arose again and now sits at the right hand of the Father. It is about having a personal relationship with Jesus,and having Him dwell in your heart by faith.

Please do not neglect this time of opportunity. Right where you are you can make sure you are saved for eternity and give your life to Him. He is standing at the door of your heart, knocking and calling your name. It is time to open your heart and bring Hope in, "Jesus Christ, our hope". (1 Timothy 1:1)

"...if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek (Gentile), for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:9-13

God bless you. It was a privilege to share these things. I truly hope you have been encouraged to come to Jesus for healing, hope, salvation and life. If you have accepted Jesus as your Lord, continue with Him no matter what. The road may be hard but He will always be with you.

Maximum security prisons have been my home now, for two decades. I know that God is with me today. He shall also be with me tomorrow. I desire to serve Him out of a heart cleansed by His blood through sharing the Gospel, encouraging others in their faith, and helping my brothers and sisters in the Lord. I am confident that, as the Bible says, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me". (Philippians 4:13) I have no doubt the Lord will see me through, and He will do the same for you.

STAY STRONG IN THE FAITH - DON'T QUIT
Peace. Stay strong in the faith. Don't quit. You may have a heavy burden today, but there will be a crown awaiting the faithful ones some bright tomorrow. Thank you for taking the time to read this testimony of God's great mercy.

With Love & Hope in Christ,

David Berkowitz

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Breaker-Breaker-Do-You-Copy? 25 million micro chips & not a drop of chile con queso in sight! -- key down, 19:22:40 03/11/03 Tue

tamarisk
In Response To PHH
Tuesday March 11, 2003 at 10:29
Heard a shocking stat on shortwave last evening. The Digital Angel corporation has sold 25 million implantable mico chips to various customers. I suspect the majority are animals. ;) "

Cite your source.....oh, you did, a "short wave stat" Thems cotton pickers reading dem short waves can beez “shockin” fer sure, fer sure. You copy?

Seventy three. Over and out. Round and About. In and out. Under and Around, yer cotton picken slider.

10-100, Arizona-Apple. LOL!

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MURR The KWEEL Dude - He's a man of few words; "Myself, Me and I." -- Sola Laughs!, 00:18:19 03/10/03 Mon

I am dedicated to the proposition that MURR was created a self-important dullard. Half an hour after he left the bathroom, the mirror is still warm!

Murray
In Response To Gerry.
Sunday March 9, 2003 at 16:44
Before I became a Christian, I wasn't refusing to believe. Were you? I just didn't believe. Then, at the right time, He knocked on the door and I opened it. After that, I believed. It seems a little hard to believe in Him until you meet Him and very easy after that, don't you think? Besides, this way He gets all the glory for the work He does. I lead more people to Christ by being very relaxed and almost not caring whether they respond to me than by putting on a full court press. Best way to keep a woman interested, also.

Gotta luv immature game players. If all MURR’s world's a stage, I want to operate the trap door.

"Best way to keep a woman interested, (is by.....) being very relaxed and almost not caring whether they respond to me than by putting on a full court press." Shore-Nuff Don Juan. Hubba-Hubba hot stuff.

So much for depth, sincerity, and love.

Give MURR a fish and he has food for a day; teach him HOW to fish and you can get rid of him of the entire weekend. PTL!

No woman ever falls in love with a man like MURR unless she has a better opinion of him than he deserves.

Some free advice Flat Foot Floogie with a false manner; leave relationships with real women to the big boys until you are able to cut the self-conscious juvenile game playing and GROW UP LITTLE BOY!

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GUESS WHAT BUCKER-ROOS? The "Gooberment" Tamarisk Expectorates On Today......... -- Will FORCE Us To Financially Support His Indigent Old Age!, 20:04:47 03/07/03 Fri

”tamarisk
In Response To roadking
Friday March 7, 2003 at 16:01
WRT—(quoting roadking) "No insult intended, but I'm just not sure about you, friend." Take a number and stand in line. Let me clear something up here and now. From what I've read of you over at R1, you and I are not friends.

Tamarisk: “The Bible clearly states Christians are in the world. We are to be salt and light. But, we are not to love the temporal things of this world. I'm not telling you or anyone else to get out of those things. I am, however, stating I have gotten out of some of those things. I will be working on more, soon. Got rid of the car over a year ago. Don't need registrations, licenses, etc., and don't need to worry much about $4 per gallon gasoline. Can get along just fine on two-wheels, peddling in 115 degree heat. :)”


” we are not to love the temporal things of this world.” Have you ever considered that maybe you have demonstrated a pattern that indicates you are not to be trusted with them? If you don’t have anything in your surroundings tempting you; what’s your big claim to superiority over the flesh? Just something to ponder.


115 degree heat, eh? That is far more noble than 95 degrees, isn’t it? You have stated publicly why you do not have a car, Tamarisk. May I remind you and others that it has nothing to do with your affecting a sudden decision to deny your flesh. In fact the reason you are without a car is due to your NOT having adopted a consistent plan that demonstrates a pattern of sound fiscal principles or Biblical financial responsibility with regard to your method of handling money. The Bible addresses these principles repeatedly. Subsequently, you are correct you don’t need a car registration, gasoline, or a driver’s license because you no longer have a car! Is there really something honorable in the way you arrived at that?


But here (and several recent posts on the same theme) is how you present the false impression to others that you are somehow adopting a new and noble life change, when nothing could actually be further from the that:


” tamarisk
In Response To roadking
Thursday March 6, 2003 at 20:39
A "freeman?" There's an interesting thought! Do you have a Social "Insecurity" Number? A license to drive? Vehicle registration? A bank account? Voter registration card? File tax returns, etc?
Free from what, and whom? Just more invasion of privacy from an ever expanding police state..” ………and…………..” I was talking "STRAWMAN" and not "strawman." A "STRAWMAN" is what the goobermint believes you are when they use your full name in capitol/uppercase letters. i.e. the IRS, or being entangled in a court of law(lessness).
This is how the goobermint declares ownership over you. Your name, in uppercase letters, is a CORPORATION. You become an instrument by which the goobermint issues debt and credit.”



Has Tamarisk considered his cognitive disconnect in asserting the following line of thought?

• ” My name is NOT the property of the goobermint.”

and the next sentence……………

• ” I have my name, in uppercase letter, copyrited”

QUESTION: If you registered your name with the “gooberment” copyright office – JUST WHO are you registering your name with? WHO are you asserting is the PROTECTORATE OF YOUR NAME?????!!!!!! Does your G_d own a copyright office? Sheesh!


That’s the trouble with the black helicopter conspiracy crowd – cognitive disconnect!

Vilifying others for their Godly decision to abide by the laws of the land according to Romans 13; twisting other’s honorable habits which include exhibiting fiscal responsibility, and self restraint is indicative of your delirium. Displaying your contempt, and enmity with others because you haven’t maintained a bank account, (thus no acct #) is truly the height of cheekiness, ol boy. ……well, gee, it isn’t rocket science as to why you “nobly” refuse to have any acct. number, now is it? Let’s see. You urinate away your finances, as you approach retirement age you have made no provisions for yourself, and so you do the big holy dance and feign superiority over other Christians because you “don’t have a driver’s license, SS#, bank account, et al” and try to make others assume that it is because of some wonderful virtue that keeps you from becoming encumbered – Nonsense!

Kim/Kat 02 has a better perspective on the issue…………..

” Kat_02
In Response To Tamarisk
Friday March 7, 2003 at 16:12
I prefer to think of my car as a gift from God. It has helped my family so very much. I'm grateful for it ..but don't love it.”

Tamarisk is massaging the facts again. He effectively has re-packaged his becoming a middle aged fiscal basket case without a future plan, into some sort of pious virtue that is to be admired. Sort of like a person bleeding to death and bragging about their rapid “weigh loss program” as their blood splashes onto the floor. The very ones he chides and defames today will be the very persons he bleeds to death in his later life by sticking the suction hose to their savings to foot the bill that supports his indigent health care needs in his later life. The Irony: We will be forced to support his bad decisions by the very “gooberment” he expectorates on!


What he lacks in sound Biblical exegesis, self restraint, responsibility, and level headedness is more than compensated for with in copious amounts ………….. CHUTZPA!!!!!!!!!

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[> GUESS WHAT BUCKER-ROOS? The "Gooberment" Tamarisk Expectorates On Today......... -- Is The Same "POLICE STATE" He REGISTERED His Name With!, 11:59:17 03/08/03 Sat

If you are a "FREE" man, Why did you ever decide to voluntarily REGISTER YOUR NAME with the United States copyright office and the Head of what you rail against as being some "ever increasing police State."

................conspiritorial dis-connect?

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Tamarisk Learns a New Lesson - When You Sleep With Dogs - FLEAS HAPPEN! -- LOL!!!!!, 12:44:39 03/07/03 Fri

"Roadking
In Response To tamarisk
Thursday March 6, 2003 at 23:03
I'm really starting to question your stability now. Yes, I know all about the evil government ruling our lives. Heard that from a truck driver in New Mexico one time. You're starting to sound like a conspiracy nut. Most of those items you mentioned, I don't like. But they aren't going to go away either, nor can you easily survive without most of them. I'm not to the point of digging a hole in the desert and hiding from the government yet. No insult intended, but I'm just not sure about you, friend.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message Alignment Officer
In Response To You're starting to sound like a conspiracy nut.
Friday March 7, 2003 at 0:40

STARTING??

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Roadking
In Response To Message Alignment Officer
Friday March 7, 2003 at 7:31

"Yeah, well I've always been a master of the obvious! :)"

Your new apostate buds are quite inciteful. LOL!

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Tamarisk Believes The Former USSR/Russia's Information Is More Trustworthy Than The USA Government -- Tamarisk Likes Deception, 11:06:03 03/07/03 Fri

tamarisk
Thursday March 6, 2003 at 20:28

Where was the evidence there was over 120,000 Iraqi troops massing on the Kuwait border before Gulf War I? Was not those, supposed, satellite pictures King George I used to convince the world to go against Saddam then?
What about the Russian satellite pics proving otherwise? There is now evidence Iraqi troops did not torch the oil wells.

Just wondering if KJ II learned the fine art of deception from his daddy, KG I? "

Yes, Tamarisk. Speaking of the " fine art of deception," indeed.

The USSR/Russia has always been honest and "reliable" in their information, now haven't they? There has never been any deception coming from the Soviet block nations. Say, Boopie, if you prefer Russia's way of doing things over the United States of America - GO THERE!

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ISLAM - The Peaceful and Tolerant Religion & The Check Is In The Mail -- wanna buy a slightly used camel?, 18:56:18 03/05/03 Wed



That Islam is "peace and tolerance" is the most popular lie in the world today. Intellectuals in the West who defame Christ parrot the most fatuous praise of Muham--mad, in spite of his legacy of murder, pillage and rape. A Sesame Street-type Arabic TV program features children training to be suicide bombers and chanting "Death to Israel" -- for peace, of course. Reporter Ann Coulter suggests, "Inasmuch as liberals are demanding that Americans ritualistically proclaim, Islam is a religion of peace, Muslims might do their part by not killing people all the time." 1

That our leaders promote this lie, and that so many believe it without one fact to support it, bodes ill for America and the world. We only ask Muslims for one example of where and when Islam ever brought peace and tolerance -- and please dont threaten us with death (the standard Islamic persuasion) for asking!

Never forget that Muslims slaughtered and conquered "for Allah" from Spain to China. These Arab conquests (defensive battles, they claim) were "more rapid than the Roman, more lasting than the Mongol...the most amazing feat in military history." 2

Islams founder, Muhammad, began his career attacking rich caravans passing near his base in Medina. The first three assaults failed. The fourth succeeded because the victims were surprised by an ambush during Ramadan. Arab tribes had long refrained from aggression in that "holy month." Muhammad, however, had received a "revelation" authorizing plunder and murder in Allahs name during this special time of peace (Surah 2:217). Another absolved the Muslims of killing: "Ye slew them not, but Allah slew them" (Surah 8:17).

Most Muslims dont realize that in observing Ramadan and the annual pilgrimage (hajj) to Mecca, they follow what pagan Arabs practiced for centuries before Muhammad was born (see TBC Feb 00). Had President Bush known the truth instead of the misinformation fed to him by Cleveland State University law professor David F. Forte, 3 he might not have hosted a White House dinner honoring "the holy month Ramadan," nor flattered Muslims saying "all the world continues to benefit from this faith and its achievements." Benefit?

Challenged to do miracles like Christ, Muhammad could do none. On March 16, 624, near Badr, he led 300 warriors in a vicious attack against a large Meccan caravan protected by a force of 800. Some 40 Meccans were killed and 60 taken prisoner to a loss of only 14 Muslims. This amazing victory was seen as the attesting miracle Muhammad needed. As a result, the ranks of Muslims swelled with those eager to share in future plunder.

Having proved himself the prophet of Allah with the sword, Muhammad sealed his apostleship with more than twenty murders, beginning with al-Nadr, an old enemy from Mecca. Taken captive in the battle at Badr, he pleaded that the Meccan Quraish tribe would never kill captives. Muhammad had him beheaded anyway, justifying the deed with another "revelation": "It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land" (Surah 8:67).

Much of the growing Muslim wealth came from robbing and killing Jews, causing "the disappearance of these Jewish communities from Arabia proper"4 -- justified by a further "revelation" (Surah 33:26,27). To this day, by law no Jew may set foot in Saudi Arabia.

A number of poets were murdered at Muhammads behest for having mocked him in verse. The first was the poetess Asma bint Marwan, stabbed to death by Umayr while she was nursing her youngest child. The poet Abu Afak (reportedly more than 100 years old) was murdered next. Then came the Jewish poet Kab bin al-Ashraf. A timely "revelation" said all poets were inspired of Satan (Surah 26:221-227).

Does it bother todays Muslims that murder, rape, plunder and slavery of innocent people were the accepted way of life upon which Islam was founded and still operates? Apparently not. Kabs murder (the account slanted with fictitious details) is justified on a popular Muslim website, revealing Islams peculiar meaning of "peace" and "justice":


Kab had become a real danger to the state of peace and mutual trust which the Prophet was struggling to achieve in Madinah....The Prophet was quite exasperated with him....This was all part of the great process...which helped to make Islam spread and establish it on foundations of justice and piety. 5 [Emphasis added]


Christ left Christians "an example, that ye should follow his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not...[but] bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness..." (1 Pt 2:21-24). But the Muslim must follow the example of Muhammad who killed all who dared to disagree with him!

A Christian must "know" God (Jer 9:24; Jn 17:3), "love" God with all his heart (Dt 6:5; Mt 22:37, etc.) and "believe" in Christ in his heart (Acts 8:37; Rom 10:9). The God of the Bible wants mans trust and affection without coercion.

In contrast, Allah can be neither known nor loved. Nor does one even have to believe to become a Muslim. Under threat of death, one merely recites aloud, "There is no ila (god) but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet." This "conversion without faith" was established when Abu Sufyan, a Quraish leader, upon surrendering Mecca in 630 to Muhammad and his superior army, admitted that he doubted the latters prophethood. He was warned, "Accept Islam and testify that Muhammad is the apostle of Allah before your neck is cut off by the sword. Thus [without believing] he professed the faith of Islam and became a Muslim." 6 This pattern is followed today: confess or die!

Upon Muhammads death in A.D. 632, many Arabs attempted to abandon Islam. Abu Bakr (the first caliph to succeed Muham-mad) and his warriors in the infamous Wars of Apostasy killed tens of thousands of ex-Muslims, forcing Arabia back into Islam. Muhammad had commanded, "Whoever relinquishes his faith, kill him." Islam is still enforced this way under sharia (Islamic law) in Saudi Arabia and wherever Muslims are able to do so. This is peace and tolerance?!

The Universal Islamic Declaration of Human Rights was announced at the International Conference on the Prophet Muhammad and his Message held in London in April 1980. It declares, "Islam gave to mankind an ideal code of human rights fourteen centuries ago...based on the Quran and the Sunnah [teachings and practice of Muhammad]...." Human rights? What deceit!

Abu Bakr was succeeded as caliph by Umar Abu Hafsa. His armies took Damascus in 635, Antioch in 636, Jerusalem in 638, Syria in 640, Egypt and Persia in 641. Entire cities were massacred, such as Behnesa, Fayum, Nikiu and Aboit in Egypt, Tripoli in North Africa and Euchaita in Armenia. Carthage was razed to the ground. In 644, Umar was murdered.

Uthman ibn Affan, the third caliph, consolidated and expanded the growing Islamic empire. A son-in-law of Muhammad, he standardized the Quran, burning all rival copies over protests of those still alive who remembered different readings and missing verses. Among these was Muhammads favorite wife Aisha who, by the way, never veiled her face. Uthman, too, was murdered by a rival Muslim faction. Prevented from being buried in a Muslim cemetery, he was buried at night by friends, ironically, in a Jewish cemetery.

Islam divides the world into dar al-Islam (the house of peace) and dar al-Harb (the house of war). To bring "peace," Allah commands, "I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads! (8:13); Slay the idolaters wherever you find them...(9:5); O Prophet, struggle with the unbelievers and hypocrites and be thou harsh with them...(9:73); Believers, make war on the infidels that dwell around you..." (9:123). Perpetual jihad is commanded until all the world is under sharia. Nor would that bring peace, because Muslims fight among themselves, as history testifies.

The fourth and last of the "rightly guided" caliphs was Ali, Muhammads cousin and son-in-law. Accused of complicity in Uthmans murder, he never fully established his rule. Aisha supported a rebellion against him, resulting in the Battle of the Camel in which 10,000 were killed. Ali won, but was murdered in 661.

Wars of succession pitted Quraish against Bedouins, Umayyads against the Hashimite followers of Ali, etc. Most of Alis family were killed by rival Muslims in 680. Mecca was besieged by troops of Yezid, an Umayyad; the Kaaba (later restored) was burned to the ground, its Black Stone split into three pieces. Mecca was taken in 692 by Abd-al-Malik (who in 691 had built the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem to replace the Kaaba). He united Muslims once again by force and Islam continued its conquests.

In 712, Muslim raiders under Muhammad Qasun began the invasion of India, demolishing temples and palaces and massacring, as in Constantinople, where the streets ran with blood. "The massacres perpetrated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger in sheer numbers than the Holocaust...."7 But Islam is "peace!"

The Umayyad caliphate ruled the Muslim world until 749 when all of the Umayyads were murdered by the rival Abbasids, except one survivor, abd-al-Rahman, who fled to Spain where he established an independent caliphate. Thus began the Abbasid caliphate, which lasted until 1258 in spite of intrigue, assassinations and uprisings -- all peaceful, of course.

The double-cross and murder of Muslims at the hands of Muslims continues to this day. Scarcely a Muslim regime is not ruled by a dictator who seized power from other Muslims, as in Syria and Iraq. The ten-year revolution in Algeria has cost 100,000 lives. In Afghanistan, rival Muslim warlords fight one another. "Infidels" have to intervene there as in the Gulf, to enforce peace among "peaceful" Muslims.

Muslims loyal to the murdered Ali and his sons are called Shiites (the majority in Iran). The others are called Sunnis and comprise the majority elsewhere. These two factions have long demonstrated that "Islam is peace" by fighting one another, as in the eight-year war between Iran and Iraq when more people were killed than in World War I.

Muslim conquests involving multiple massacres of literally millions continued for more than 1,300 years. Under the Abbasids the Islamic empire reached its zenith of power, prosperity and learning.

In Spain (to which Muslims point as an example of their tolerance) the garrison of Muez was slaughtered in 920; Pamplona was put to the sword in 923; then Cordova, Zaragoza and Mereda, with all adult males killed and women and children enslaved. The Jews of Granada were butchered in 1066, 34 years after 6,000 Jews had been slaughtered in Fez, Morocco. In 1146, Islamic Fez was put to the sword by rival Muslims, the Almohads, who conquered much of North Africa after annihilating the Almoravides (another Muslim faction) with about 100,000 massacred, another 120,000 killed in Marrakesh, and similar slaughters elsewhere -- all gestures of "peace."

The 400-year rule of the Ottoman Turks saw forced kidnappings of young boys into Islam and slavery, causing parents to mutilate children to make them undesirable. Under the Ottomans, being Greek, Armenian, Serb or any other non-Muslim was to live in daily fear of murder, rape, torture, genocide. To this day, Serbs and Bulgarians loathe Turks and Bosnians.

When Sultan Murad III died, his son Muhammad had all nineteen of his brothers murdered and the seven of his fathers concubines who were pregnant sewn into sacks and thrown into the sea. The successor of Murad IV had all 300 women in his harem sewn into sacks and thrown into the Bosphorus. Like so many other Muslim leaders, he was murdered- -- peacefully.

The persecution of Jews in Roman Catholic Europe was mild compared to what Ottoman Christians endured for four centuries. More than a million Armenians were slaughtered in the last decades of the nineteenth and the first of the twentieth centuries, as well as many thousands of Jews, Greeks, Assyrians, Lebanese, et al. Tragically, the oppression and bloodshed were often condoned by Western powers, particularly England and at times America. In the great 1915 genocide, "women came with butcher knives [to] gain that merit in Allahs eyes that comes from killing a Christian." 8 The destruction of Smyrna in September 1922 with the deliberate massacre of nearly 300,000 inhabitants is another example of Islamic "peace." English, American, Italian and French battleships anchored in the harbor repelled fleeing victims who swam out to them for help.9

The popular "explanation" that Osama bin Laden and other terrorists are not Muslims, but fanatics, is a rebuke to the Quran, to Muhammad, and to Islam itself. As Trifkovic writes (p. 127), "Thirteen centuries of...suffering and death of countless millions, have been covered by the myth of Islamic tolerance...." The West winks at the blatant denial of basic human rights and support of terrorism by Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries -- even favors Islamic terrorists in Chechnya, Cyprus, Bosnia, Kashmir, Kosovo, Macedonia, Sudan and East Timor.

Our politically correct delusion is leading to disaster. Tragically, the gospel is kept from Islamic countries by the failure of Western governments to admit and confront the truth about Islam. Please continue to inform yourselves, to protest to our leaders, to pray for Gods intervention, and to be witnesses for Christ to Muslims in our country. TBC

1 www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/coulter.html

2 Will Durant, The Story of Civilization (Simon and Schuster, 1950), IV: 188.

3 Imprimis (Oct 2002), 2-6; Serge Trifkovic, The Sword of the Prophet: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (Regina Orthodox Press, 2002), 83-84 (See offering list).

4 W.N. Arafat, Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland, 1976, 100-107.

5 www.islam101.com/people/companions/maslamah.html

6 Cf. Ibn Hisham, part 4 of his Biography of the Prophet, cited in Trifkovic, Sword, 48.

7 Trifkovic, Sword, 112.

8 Michael J. Arlen, Passage to Ararat (Ruminator Books, 2002), 224.

9 Nicholas Gage, Greek Fire (Alfred A. Knopf, 2000), cited in Trifkovic, 125.

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Feh! Only a Sclepper Like Tamarisk Would Believe His Cockamamy Kvitching - OY-Y-Y Gevalt! -- I Could Plotz!, 14:44:59 03/03/03 Mon

”tamarisk
In Response To roadking
Monday March 3, 2003 at 9:45
As I pointed out to the Mormon missionaries and others, most of the New Testament was written from prison by men who were put there because they obeyed G_d and not a corrupt government.”

That is absolute MEARD, Tamarisk! You are a foolish man!

It was NOT the GOVERNMENT that was persecuting Paul and the Apostles – IT WAS THE JEWS! I’m sorry you have gotten so flakily lately Tamarisk. You are truly one clarinet shy of a Klesmer band, Boopie. Your theology is completely FARCHADAT. Man-O- Manischewitz! What a crazy!

Paul was put into prison because he opposed the Pharisees! THEY WERE NOT THE GOVERNMENT! You are a bupkes brain!

At that time the battle was a Jewish religious problem because some of the Jews broke from their traditional religion and followed Christ Jesus. It had nothing to do with the ROMAN government! Even when Pilate crucified Christ Jesus, he didn’t want to do it. It was due to the pressure put on him by the Jews who claimed Jesus was committing blaspheme.

Tamarisk off his trolly: ”……. of the New Testament was written from prison by men who were put there because they obeyed G_d and not a corrupt government.”

Besides SOME of the letters from Paul, most of the NT was NOT written from prison! Again, Paul opposed the JEWS - - - NOT the Roman Government in the literal meaning.

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[> Re: Feh! Only a Sclepper Like Tamarisk Would Believe His Cockamamy Kvitching - OY-Y-Y Gevalt! -- Sola Shemei Kicking Up The Dust - again, LOL!, 17:30:33 03/03/03 Mon

.....MOST of the New Testament was written from prison by men who were put there because they obeyed G_d and not a corrupt government."

That is patently false.

Not only did Paul NOT violate the Roman government, or violate it’s laws – He in fact USED the law of the land in his favor as a defense against the Jews’ slander, false witness, and false charges that they brought against him!

Don’t forget, Tamarisk that the reason Paul was serving a “protected” and rather extended sort of imprisonment was because he USED the Roman laws as a LEGAL DEFENSE to benefit himself against false charges brought on by the Jews when he rightfully appealed to Caesar under Roman law as his right which was guaranteed him due to his citizenship. That is why he was bounced all over the Roman Empire prison system – To comply with Roman law! Did Paul ever violate the law? NO! The Roman government, for the most part could give a rip about Paul.


Where ever do you get these flaky ideas? The Gospels were not written from prison, certainly.


It is irresponsible for you to twist history and verifiable facts to meet your new anti-government paradigm while publishing your error to innocent Biblical illiterates. It may be your constitutional right to do so, but you are acting irresponsibly and abusing your freedom.

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T_M_R_SK -TH_ - PH_R_S__ -- Matt 23:5, 15:07:14 03/03/03 Mon

Ollie
In Response To Rolls
Monday March 3, 2003 at 16:31
• "Why do you spell God G_d?"
Ever heard of Yhwh?

==================================================

Rolls Canardly
In Response To tamarisk
Monday March 3, 2003 at 14:36
"Why do you spell God G_d? "

==================================================

Simple reason: for AFFECT.

Practical reason: Because they don’t wear Phylacteries in Arizona. Besides you couldn't see a big honkin' phylactery over the net. That is, boxes containing Scripture verses, worn on forehead and arm for man to SEE.

It is exactly the same motivation behind The Rt. Rev. Incorporated's multitude of titles. Same idea. Yet, both claim to be pious in motivation.

Matthew 23
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long"


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It's another conspiracy shrill-billy website fromTamarisk -- good heavens to Betsy!, 10:52:22 02/27/03 Thu

Re: Tamarisk's published web site rotation - www.calltodecision.com

Tamarisk
In Response To Roadking Thursday February 27, 2003 at 9:36
”Didn't say I agreed with all of it, but it was interesting reading.”

Back peddle, back peddle. You thought you had a live one there for a minute, didn’t you? Another fellow traveler, em? No, you did not expressly say you agreed with all of it. You recommended the site without a single caveat or quantification BEFORE it was cited as a looney bin site by those who went there to read that offal bilge. Does good fruit fall from a bad tree? That site is as shrill and confused as you have become, Tamarisk.

Tamarisk: ” It's up to individuals to research the information. There are many "consirpracy theories" which have become conspiracy fact.”

Tamarisk: Why would you direct others to misleading information and conjecture? Cite your Biblical references that teach you to follow AND advocate undocumented conjecture. You really have abandoned the traditional faith recently and become a shrill Anti-Government detractor. I invite you once more to re-locate to a home more conducive to your ideal.

Tamarisk: ”According to Sola's train of thought, the American Revolution was wrong. Talk about being derailed. ;)”

Is dat so? You look small Tamarisk Using your unbiblical accusatory “When did you stop beating your wife” tactic to impress those you have in the past disavowed? You are paranoid.

Nice Tamarisk. Using his typical intellectually dishonest ad hominem debate tactic and attempting to silence your challengers by attempting to make them prove a negative. Care to cite your facts that prove your point? Please note I don’t go off the shrill end in my confronting you. I have supported all my comments directed at impeaching your sources with their documentation. Impeaching sources with documentation and facts is something the Black Helicopter Crowd (you seem to have a meeting of minds with,) has always had a problem emulating.

Your sources, your recommended sites, those you advocate simply are not intellectually honest, nor have you been lately, Tamarisk. I regret to say.

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[> Only questioning the veracity of Tamarisk's information = Sorry To Bother You -- Sola Shemei Kicking Up The Dust - again, LOL!, 13:54:00 02/27/03 Thu


Tamarisk: ” It's up to individuals to research the information. There are many "consirpracy theories" which have become conspiracy fact.”

Time and time again, recently, Tamarisk intentionally has mis-lead others with his raving lunatic web addresses for which he has acted as ADVOCATE.

When called to account and asked to explain these shrill sites - Tamarisk denies, Tamarisk evades, Tamarisk ridicules, Tamarisk invents things and calls silly names, or he completely ignores the challenges to the FALSE information that he is championing.

FACT: Tamarisk cited the above referenced site. He inferred in his recommendation that it was VIABLE and USEFUL information that others needed to read. When challenged for his advocacy, Tamarisk back peddles and nose dives for the nearest tall grass with excuses.

In all the dishonesty of a false zealot; Tamarisk returned legitimate challenges and inquiries from those legitimately questioning his veracity with bogus back pedaling and slander. Original information and web addresses, may I say, that are in every way consistent with Tamarisk's words or recent philosophy. VERY DISHONEST, Tamarisk. VERY YOU, 'ma dear.

Hope you find employment soon. (what's it been? three weeks? four? Gunna make your fortune suing the system you hate and cashing in on the taxpayers you malign? hummm?) Your idle down time, is a menace to the Church you proclaim you represent.
What has happened to you?

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[> [> Only questioning the veracity of Tamarisk's recommended information -- for the document file, 19:10:46 02/27/03 Thu

” tamarisk
Wednesday February 26, 2003 at 13:42

This seems to cover much of things coming down the pike,
http://www.calltodecision.com/Army%20Detention.htm

For that matter, just type into your addy line www.calltodecision.com and read any of the dozens of articles there. Just a word of note and warning. This ministry is Preterist."


The record indicates that prior to having the site's content challenged by someone, the only caveat offered by the promoter of this site was that it espoused the "preterist" heresy. I submit that there are other aberrant offerings contained there as well that he did not flag.

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[> Only questioning the veracity of Tamarisk's information = Sorry To Bother You -- Sola Shemei Kicking Up The Dust - again, LOL!, 13:54:11 02/27/03 Thu


Tamarisk: ” It's up to individuals to research the information. There are many "consirpracy theories" which have become conspiracy fact.”

Time and time again, recently, Tamarisk intentionally has mis-lead others with his raving lunatic web addresses for which he has acted as ADVOCATE.

When called to account and asked to explain these shrill sites - Tamarisk denies, Tamarisk evades, Tamarisk ridicules, Tamarisk invents things and calls silly names, or he completely ignores the challenges to the FALSE information that he is championing.

FACT: Tamarisk cited the above referenced site. He inferred in his recommendation that it was VIABLE and USEFUL information that others needed to read. When challenged for his advocacy, Tamarisk back peddles and nose dives for the nearest tall grass with excuses.

In all the dishonesty of a false zealot; Tamarisk returned legitimate challenges and inquiries from those legitimately questioning his veracity with bogus back pedaling and slander. Original information and web addresses, may I say, that are in every way consistent with Tamarisk's words or recent philosophy. VERY DISHONEST, Tamarisk. VERY YOU, 'ma dear.

Hope you find employment soon. (what's it been? three weeks? four? Gunna make your fortune suing the system you hate and cashing in on the taxpayers you malign? hummm?) Your idle down time, is a menace to the Church you proclaim you represent.

What has happened to you?

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[> "Conspiracy Theories Become A Conspiracy Fact" dat so? -- Then Name Some For Us, 01:00:08 02/28/03 Fri

Tamarisk: ” It's up to individuals to research the information. There are many "consirpracy theories" which have become conspiracy fact.” Name some. Prove it IN CONTEXT.

There are many false prophets that get lucky now and then, too. Does the Word tell us to become followers of heretics and false prophets and hang on their words for the chance that we will be there to hear them when they get one right?

The fact that Michel Nostradamus the famous French "seer" of the 16th Century may have on occasion seemingly gotten a few of his predictions right, does not make him any less a FALSE PROPHET according to the standard of God as stated in the authority of his Word

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[> Sola That Alien and E-Vile Seditionest Actress, tea drinking pinko - LOL! -- faux Tamarisk, wink*, 09:13:30 03/02/03 Sun

Typical Tamarisk: ”According to Sola's train of thought, the American Revolution was wrong. Talk about being derailed. ;)”

So tell us Sola!

Exactly what was the time that you decided that you didn't agree with the American Revolution, you seditionest vile woman? Did you decide this over your morning cups of Keenum? HUM, Keenum-kid?

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MORE AWFUL OFFAL -- "Slaves"? Free Yourself! LEAVE HERE - Or Stick a Cork In It!, 23:00:38 02/26/03 Wed

tamarisk
This seems to cover much of things coming down the pike,
http://www.calltodecision.com/Army%20Detention.htm
For that matter, just type into your addy line www.calltodecision.com and read any of the dozens of articles there. Just a word of note and warning. This ministry is Preterist."

~~~~~~~HERE'S A SAMPLE MASTERPIECE OF ANTI-AMERICAN OFFAL DEBRIS (viscera TO THOSE IN RIO LINDA) FROM TAMARISK'S RECOMMENDED BILGE.

"Dear American Slaves:
America, your "government" herds you, corrals you, lies to you, steals from you, confiscates your wealth, threatens you, sends swarms of officials amongst you to harass you, licenses you, divides you into squabbling groups, makes treaties with foreign enemies of America, takes your God-given rights away, tramples your religious liberties, subverts virtue while promoting decadence, arms and funds your enemies, allows terrorists to blow up your buildings and kill you, keeps you in constant fear, incrementally disarms you, sends your sons off to other nations' wars, ruins the name of America in the eyes of the world, terrorizes you with phantoms of coming terror, steals your children, indoctrinates your children, sends your jobs overseas, subverts your values, legislates tons of new laws making virtually every
American a criminal, allows real criminals to run free to terrorize your neighborhoods and
run for political office, and is now building a Nazi "Homeland Security" Gestapo to finish off your remaining liberties, and YOU LOVE TO HAVE IT SO.

Lick the hands that feed you, slaves. Kiss the boots of your masters.
Grovel like the cowards you have become and maybe your masters will throw you a crumb.
Hide your eyes from the shame of your cowardice.
Look the other way as your liberties are stolen.

Stick your head in the sand and pretend everything is okay as your heritage and wealth
is plundered.
Cover your face from the glaring eyes of your children that you have sold out.
American Sheeple, See that cliff ahead?"

Roadking
In Response To tamarisk
Wednesday February 26, 2003 at 23:07

Checked out the site "calltodecision.com" and looked at some of their so-called information. The immediate impression was "do these fools have a working brain cell anywhere?" It's another conspiracy nut-case website, except this time it's a religious nut-case. Good night.

Preternist heresy is not their only problem, bunkies!

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[> MORE AWFUL OFFAL -- J. Thud Boots, 23:26:01 02/26/03 Wed

Isn't "Gestapo" a cold tomatoe and cucumber soup?

"Lick the hands that feed you, slaves. Kiss the boots of your masters.
Grovel like the cowards you have become and maybe your masters will throw you a crumb."

Let me get my leather. WAIT! Lick my boots.....be my master..... Where's my leather mask and chains? OH! Hurt me good!....... Who let Dick Morris in here? It says boots, NOT FEET! Sheesh. LOL!

Velly interesting, Hanzel. Catch ya later, I think there's a knock at my door. It's a man in a fedora and trench coat selling Schnapps. He wants me out of the house so they can plant the corpse of a dead armadillo "the organization" found on I-10.

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[> [> MORE AWFUL OFFAL -- Pierre-Louis Lefèvre & Pfrommer Heilemann Berliner, 23:54:06 02/26/03 Wed

"Faux jeton"



"Er war Wachs in ihren Händen."

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DON'T "BITCH" UNLESS YOU HAVE A DOG IN THE FIGHT -- Sola Shemei Kicking Up The Dust - again, LOL!, 12:04:36 02/25/03 Tue

tamarisk
In Response To From WND
Tuesday February 25, 2003 at 9:19

What about those low tech weapons being added to all the Humvees in the Middle East. It seems, with all the technology out there, 12,000 chickens are being deployed to detect chemical weapons.
Given the goobermints generosity to pay thousands for toilet seats and bolts, how much did 12,000 chickens cost the taxpaying public?

Don't chickens have rights, too! Don't need no duct tape or plastic sheets! Just chickens!


A DEADBEAT BITCHES ABOUT THE COST OF TOILET SEATS…..GIMME A BREAK! (Oh fiddle! Did I say “bitches”? Ever been to a dog show?)

"Goobermints generosity to pay thousands for toilet seats and bolts"???

Tamarisk Question: What do you care what the honest American taxpayers who are paying your load, are burdened with? After all it was YOU who made this offensively condescending statement last week against the very taxpayers you are NOW playing a phony advocate for;

Tamarisk: ” Keep on filling those IRS tax returns,
registering your vehicle,
carry a state drivers license,
hold on to your bank account, etc.”
Will do, Tamarisk. Keep on allowing others in America such as myself PAY your freight.

You seem to look down your nose at citizens who honor their legal obligations and pay their taxes that support this country which you love to spit on. So you really don’t pay your fair share anyway, based on your own quotes and statements. Exactly what is your problem? You advocate breaking laws that don’t suit your template.

Filing your legally required taxes is not part of your routine anyway. Aren’t your objections about how the “gooberment” spends MY and OTHER’S money a bit fraudulent? You want to BOTH malign those of us who HONOR the LAW and are bled by paying OVER 60% of out work product in taxes to support DEADBEATS such as yourself; so you can BITCH & MOAN about what the US “gooberment” pays for toilet seats.

Seems to me, Tamarisk – You Don’t Have A Dog In This Fight.


Besides - since an unemployed person would not contribute to “the gooberment” by paying any taxes, anyway, isn’t this just another seized moment for you to disingenuously bash this country? Why don’t you find a better place to complain. Or is it too difficult to find a place that will support deadbeats.

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MORONI BALONEY From St. Susan's Ecumenical Cesspool -- whoa boy!, 20:11:17 02/24/03 Mon

To: Sunny, Murr, Stevie, Dori Guess what? The Mormon Jesus is not the one of the Bible, gang.

Sunny: “ To Mormons, a cult? LOL - So fun to throw that "c" word around! (G) Jesus was a CULT in his day. Just one of the many reasons they killed him. they just didn't have the "c" word then, to label him as.”

"Is Mormonism Christian?" is a very important question. The answer is equally important and simple. No. Mormonism is not Christian. It IS a cult in the strict theological definition of the word, whether Sunny, riding high on her high horse of ignorance chooses to inform herself of this or not; it remains a fact. The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it, like any other cult, it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity.

Of the essential doctrines (Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically), Mormonism distorts two of them: the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation. Part of the difficulty is that none of the persons being quoted here from R1 have the foggiest notion what an “essential doctrine” encompasses.

Murray: the ecumenist espousing a watered down non-gospel – “Most of the time, a negative comment about another religion or another person's beliefs is not truly prophetic, but an instrument of strife. Not always, but as I have seen it, mostly always. “

Then there is an ecumenist, making-nice-to-heretics, Mur who claims to have felt "a calling." Question: How can he be at the same time hesitant to turn sinners away from patently false gospels such as Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, and Jehovah’s Witnesses that will land them in Hell? Perhaps his "calling" to preach an ecumenist message of compromise, did not come from who he thought it did! Murry's message is another gospel.

Stephen James, the Satanist and hater of Christ: "Why do you have to bring down other people's faith?" Bigots do those kinds of things. “

Dori the Roman cookie-monster, believes in ‘salvation by cookie’: re., Mormons – “If they believe that Jesus is the son of God, that he is their personal saviour and that he died for their sins, they're Christian, no matter how they choose to worship. If they want to believe the moon is a big balloon, what business is it of yours, St. Gerry? Why do you have to bring down other people's faith?”

Satan has duped all of these blind pillars of salt and entrenched theological failures into believing that there is actually more than one true “essential doctrine” and that as long as one references themselves as a “Christian” that believes in “Jesus,” and remember to “make nice,” then one may have comfort knowing that they are thus “saved.” – Just like new math and the current public school system: feel good about yourself, and nothing else matters. Five and Five may be Seven, as long as you feel good about the answer. In other words, sort of like the reasoning that is belched from Sheryl Crow who announced that the best way to avoid war is "not to have enemies," Just marvy, Sheryl. Who said you can’t be beautiful AND bright? LOL!

Because Mormonism errors in who Jesus is, salvation (the forgiveness of sins) does not occur and the Mormon is still in his sins. Christians are saved from their sins and judgment by putting their trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins. But, here’s the trick - faith is only as good as the object in which it is placed.

The Mormon Jesus is not the one of the Bible, even though they call him Jesus, say he died for sins, and was born in Bethlehem. The Mormon Jesus does not exist. It is the nature of Jesus that is the issue. Jesus must be God in flesh, (second person of the Trinity) not "a" god in flesh who is the brother of the devil. He must be uncreated, not created. He must be the creator (Col. 1:16-17). This is who the true Jesus really is: God, creator, uncreated, not the brother of the devil.

Mormonism in a Nutshell (emphasis on the NUT!)
Mormonism teaches that God used to be a man on another world

and that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of his god on his home world.

In his present god-state, he rules our world. He has a body of flesh and bones and, according to Mormonism, he has a wife, a goddess wife.

Since they are both exalted persons, they each possess physical bodies. In their exalted states as deities, they produce spirit children that grow and mature in the spiritual realm.

The first spirit born was Jesus.

Afterwards were born the devil and all other spirit creatures. After the spirit children are born to god and his goddess wife in heaven, they come down and entered into the bodies of human babies that are being born on earth. During this ‘compression' into the infant state, the memories of their pre-existence is 'veiled.' All people were, according to Mormonism, born in heaven first and then on earth where they are to grow, learn, and return to god. (this has similarities to the dakite heresies)

God the father, who is called Elohim, was concerned for the future salvation of the people on earth. In the heavenly realm, the Father had a plan for the salvation of the world. Jesus endorsed the Father's plan. Lucifer did not. Lucifer became jealous and rebelled. In his rebellion he convinced a large portion of the spirits existing in heaven to side with him and oppose god. God being more powerful then they, cursed these rebellious spirits to become demons.

The remaining spirits sided with God. Since they chose the better way, when it comes time for them to live on earth, they have the privilege of being born in races and locations that are relative to their condition and choice made in the spirit realm.

In the Mormon plan of salvation there needed to be a savior: Jesus. But Jesus was a spirit in heaven. For him to be born on earth, Brigham Young the second prophet of the Mormon church said that instead of letting any other man do it, God the Father did it with Mary. He said that the birth of our savior was as natural as the birth of our parents.

Essentially, what this means is that god the father came down and had sexual relations with Mary, his spirit daughter, to produce the body of Jesus. Jesus, then, was born, got married, and had children. He died on the cross and paid for sins not on the cross only, but in the garden of Gethsemane before he went to the cross.

Mormon men and women have the potential of becoming gods. President Lorenzo Snow said, "As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become." In order to reach this exalted state a person must first become a good Mormon, pay a full ten percent tithe to the Mormon church, follow various laws and ordinances of the church, and be found worthy. Afterwards, he or she can enter a Mormon temple and go through secret rituals: baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, and various oaths of secrecy and commitment. Additionally, four secret handshakes are taught so the believing Mormon, upon entering the third level of Mormon heaven, can shake hands with god in a certain pattern. This celestial ritual is for the purpose of permitting entrance into that level of heaven.

For those who achieve this highest of heavens, exaltation to godhood awaits them. Then, he or she, will be permitted to have his or her own planet and be the god of his own world and the Mormon system will be expanded to other planets.

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The Truth About Islam Conference To Be Held This Weekend -- Berean Buzz, 17:58:39 02/21/03 Fri

Dave Hunt:
The Greater Vancouver (WA) Interfaith Association is concerned that Dave Hunt’s series of messages (“The Greater Vancouver (WA) Interfaith Association is concerned that Dave Hunt’s series of messages (“The Truth About Islam”) at a conference this weekend will in fact “promote hate and present misinformation about Islam.” They are encouraging their members to attend the conference (2/21/03-2/23/03) at Crossroads Community Church in Vancouver in support of their association’s work to promote mutual respect and understanding of all faiths.


Please pray for Dave’s protection this evening and through the weekend, and that his messages will communicate the truth in love. We love Muslims and are convinced that only the truth will set them free. Moreover, pray that those who call themselves Christians and are sincere in their concern for Muslims will come to know God’s heart and will in this matter. Check with us next week for an update.
”) at a conference this weekend will in fact “promote hate and present misinformation about Islam.” They are encouraging their members to attend the conference (2/21/03-2/23/03) at Crossroads Community Church in Vancouver in support of their association’s work to promote mutual respect and understanding of all faiths.


Please pray for Dave’s protection this evening and through the weekend, and that his messages will communicate the truth in love. We love Muslims and are convinced that only the truth will set them free. Moreover, pray that those who call themselves Christians and are sincere in their concern for Muslims will come to know God’s heart and will in this matter. Check with us next week for an update.

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"No Doubt We're in the Last Days" -- from Dave Hunt, 17:52:16 02/21/03 Fri

"No Doubt We're in the Last Days"

18 February, 2003 BBC News BANGLADESH - Thousands of people in the Bangladeshi port city of Chittagong are flocking to a Roman Catholic church where tears are reported to have been seen on a statue of the Virgin Mary.

Many of those visiting the church are Muslims, eager to see what some locals believe is a sign of the Virgin's dismay over the recent outbreak of violence in the country and elsewhere in the world. Roman Catholic believers say it is the first time in Bangladesh that tears have been seen on a statue of the Virgin Mary.

In a country which is overwhelmingly Muslim, it is unusual for a symbol of the Christian faith to attract much interest. But so many people are gathering outside the Chittagong church that police have been deployed to ensure law and order is maintained. Roman Catholics in Chittagong say that most people are queuing up to see the statue because they are inquisitive.

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"You resorted to using using unedifying language of the world " -- Indeed, 17:46:52 02/21/03 Fri

Tamarisk condescendingly sayz: ”You resorted to using using unedifying language of the world (yes, using b.s. is the same as using the words--i.e. the Dorito unit substituting "!" in her four letter profanities).”

My. My. So Tamarisk is suddenly upset about someone using the term “BS” and “unedifying language”??? A man of conviction? Oh REALLY????

So why is he posting among persons he has always vilified and rained anathemas upon? BTW, check their “edifying” language Tamarisk, it is right there sandwiched in between your posts to Kim who’s character you have always tarnished in the past.

Just in case you were too preoccupied with your own posts to notice all your fellow poster’s language, here is some of what the riff-raff you are posting with sayz…..

” Jimd
In Response To Duh Ree
Friday February 21, 2003 at 19:16
You aren't a Catholic you silly B*tch now quit pretending to be one.”

Message Alignment Officer
In Response To Nothing like eating pork.
Friday February 21, 2003 at 12:42
You're in luck, The DOOR ASS should be slithering in anytime :-)

Jimd
Thursday February 20, 2003 at 19:42
"I am logging off for awhile, but I shall return."
Thanks for the warning, *unt.

Message Alignment Officer
In Response To BTW
Friday February 21, 2003 at 12:50
Most of the news is saying support for the get even for dad war is dropping like a cheerleaders panties at the prom :-)

Ollie
In Response To Kim
Thursday February 20, 2003 at 19:07
Fuck off.
I hope this is the correct forum for such sentiments.

Jimd
In Response To Duh
Thursday February 20, 2003 at 19:28
Actually, he should have saved it for you you disgusting cunt.

GerryB.
In Response To dori
Thursday February 20, 2003 at 19:43
“That is nothing but BS. I am not a libertarian and make no claim to being one. I am an independent who parrots no one and thinks for myself. Get over it, mouth.

Message Alignment Officer
In Response To that would be chicken sh!t Idiot Detector
Thursday February 20, 2003 at 22:02
:-) probably someone who doesn't want to be held accountable for her actions :-) ”


Scuze me Tamarisk, but aren’t you parading your hypocrisy in the streets these dayz?

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Bend Over For Nurse Bend-Over Riley- Here She Comes With Her Dirty Needles -- Sola Sctiptura, 20:45:23 02/20/03 Thu

“THE POWER HOUR’s” Joyce Riley makes this outrageous claim:

*”U.S. Ships Enough Biological Agents To Iraq to Kill the Entire Planet”

Who is her source? ” (Slide Shown) Now, this was faxed to me by people in Britain.”

http://www.all-natural.com/riley.html

MS Riley’s claim for the reason the United States participated in first Gulf War is this:

”The reason for the Gulf War, upon analysis, was threefold.

It was to infect the U.S. military and subsequently the U.S. and world population,

and secondly to reacquire Kuwait oil fields, which are owned by a well-known family in London,

and thirdly to test weaponry on Iraq, to whom factions sold weapons to be used against our own troops.

Part of the cover-up involved with Gulf War syndrome is also meant to conceal the fact that President Bush and other members of his administration held stock in some of the biotech companies that produced the biological weapons used against U.S. troops and shipped to Iraq.

A million Gulf War vets went, and a million of them have the potential of being sick. I will tell you a little bit why later. By their own admission, some 697,000 active duty service members and some 180,000 national guard went to the Gulf. What they say now is that 489,000 of them have since separated from the military. Now, ask yourself why in an all-volunteer force, after a war, would 50% of the individuals involved get out of the military? It is not a statistic that even makes sense. One out every two have gotten out of the military since Desert Storm? I wonder why. Possibly because they had to, because they were sick and were forced out.”

”READ MY LIPS”: C-L-I-N-T-O-N

damn! This destructive type of smarmy, dishonest story building that is based on multiple layers of documents such as mere newspaper articles (which she infers are not valid at one phase of the indoctrination), and various non-verifiable sources mixed in a sorcerer’s priory-cauldron of conjecture. The methodology makes me furious!

An Example of irresponsible, un-credible sources which Riley uses: QUOTE: ” Another document that I want you to remember as long as you live is this. This document appeared on my fax machine. I believe it to be the origin of the appropriation of the money to make the AIDS virus

I wonder if this was her “people in Britain” with a fax machine? What sort of source is the unsolicited information one receives a on their FAX machine, for goodness sake? This is what “appeared” on MY fax this week alone……. three offers to fly to Florida on an “All Expense Paid Trip for me and a guest!” to “Win a Prize!” But look what this woman conjectures from this phantom PFAX along with equally disreputable information, she maintains a ” 1970 Appropriation of Money to Create Human Immune Deficiency Virus…….(the) Department of Defense appropriated $10 million in 1970 to make a synthetic biological agent. Ask yourself why the Department of Defense needs this kind of agent……..” Then she makes the giant leap that the US made the AIDS virus for the clandestine purpose of infecting Americans.

Our government is not always chaste and I am willing to entertain credible documented information. BUT……Riley’s presentation technique begins with a priory and uses vacuous means to establish her ideas. She then peppers her dog and pony show with slides of faxes, and her provocative, suggestive, and leading questions that are a strategy completely void of content but large on theatrics such as………..

“What does that sound like to you?”

“Were the 1995 Chicago Heat Wave Deaths Really Something Else?”

“Now, getting involved with killing of large numbers of people is not what a government is for.”

“The Ebola virus. You didn't hear about that before the Gulf War, did you?”

“Now, ask yourself why in an all-volunteer force, after a war, would 50% of the individuals involved get out of the military?”

“Can you imagine what that would do to the WATER SUPPLY?” ”


The above provocative, suggestive, and leading questions based upon partial information, and from vacuous sources and no un-impeachable documentation. It is outrageous!

A Final example of how Riley is leading her sheeple:

” How many of you ever heard of the Hantavirus before the Gulf War? Remember the Hantavirus in New Mexico, caused by "mouse droppings"? I guess we didn't have mouse droppings before the Gulf War, right? We didn't hear about Ebola before the Gulf War. We didn't hear so much about Chronic Fatigue before the Gulf War. A lot of these things we never had a problem with before the Gulf War. A lot of them were used during that time and supplied by United States companies. “

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[> Bend Over For Nurse Bend-Over Riley- Here She Comes With Her Dirty Needles -- Senor Helio-Cocker Negro, 23:03:45 02/20/03 Thu

Ira Einhorn claimed that Holly Maddux's death was CIA mind control - - -

Remember, Ira Einhorn's claim that Holly Maddux's death stemmed from the community of CIA mind-control conspiracy theorists, this activism -- he insists to this day that Holly Maddux was killed by an intelligence agency, and her body planted in his bedroom, (and the stench from the partially mummified corpse never phased him, right?) to silence his growing knowledge of the CIA's use of the paranormal in military research -- received little credence. And his generous humanism -- Einhorn was consistently described by the many character witnesses at his bail hearing as a "man of love" --

Velly interesting, Hanzel. Catch ya later, I think there's a knock at my door. It's a man in a fedora and trench coat selling Kool-Aid.

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SNAKE OIL GIVES THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS A LUBE JOB! -- How The FDA Wrecks Everyone's Day............., 17:22:44 02/20/03 Thu


SNAKE OIL GIVES THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS A LUBE JOB!

Quotes From The Power Hour’s sponsor: Colloidal Silver

"An ordinary antibiotic kills perhaps a half dozen different disease causing organisms, but colloidal silver is known to be successful against more than 650 disease causing Bacteria, Virus, AND fungus."

“Reading This Book Could Save Your Life!

“Now, more than ever, the threat of biological warfare is REAL!

" It would appear highly unlikely that even germ warfare agents could survive an encounter with colloidal silver, since killers like Anthrax, Small Pox, West Nile Virus, HIV, E.Bola, and even the dreaded "flesh eating bacteria" are, in the end, merely hapless virus and bacteria."

http://www.m2ktalk.com/colloidalsilver.htm"> NOW YOU CAN
cure that hitch in yer get-along AND permanently rid your life of the creeping crud, bouts with toe jam, AND navel fuzz – Life Does Have a Silver Lining!


Nurse Joyce claims M2ktalk: “DOES NOT Make any endorsement for or against Colloidal Silver! M2ktalk offers Multi -use Power Supplies only” She only profits financially from her sponsorship.

BTW, Tamarisk has publicly advocated the use of colloidal silver and claims to use it.

The sellers of this snake oil have slyly manipulated their targeted audience in their radio sales campaign. They lure the talk show listeners of this program who have an established predilection towards being anti-government, and are persons who tend toward conspiracy theories. Listeners are maneuvered into purchasing products by creating a conspiracy atmosphere around the product’s safety/use. An example:

”Why does the government lie about colloidal silver?

• "The FDA has issued a Final Rule declaring that all over- the-counter (OTC) drug products containing colloidal silver or silver salts are not recognized as safe and effective and are misbranded." -FDA

“And yet, even though they say products containing silver are "not recognized as safe and effective", they turn right around and say that pharmaceutical companies products, such as Silver Sulphadiazine are perfectly safe to use, and in fact, silver sulphadiazine is used in almost every burn center in the USA! It even has an approved patent!!! ”

Old, old trick. “He didn’t REALLY say you couldn’t eat from the tree of knowledge….now did he Eve?”

Works every time. “Why does the government lie about colloidal silver?....even though they SAY (so and so)….they turn right around and……(so and so)….”

Step Right Up Folks! Colloidal Silver is the miracle cure for 650 pathogens. We have you so irked at the FDA “conspiracy” that you don’t stop to use your brain to analyze the ridiculously inflated product claims! They have you huffin and puffin “if it weren’t for the Big Bad Uncle Sam conspiring with pharmaceutical companies against me to keep me diseased………”

The grease job continues: ”Why does the FDA do this double-talk?”

“Is it because they're in bed with the pharmaceutical companies? Is it also because they know that if the general public knew about colloidal silver, the multi-billion dollar drug business would be no more?

“How long will it be before "Big Brother" decides that they don't even want "information" about colloidal silver to be available to the public?”

Don’t you just hate it when Big Brother wrecks your day?

Here’s OneUnder the “YESSIRREE BOB” File - Look what “Big Brother” is needlessly causing Americans to suffer with! All because Big Brother is having a jolly romp in the sheets with “the pharmaceutical companies” at American’s peril….:

” Pathogens Successfully Treated With Colloidal Silver

“Since there is not enough room to list all the pathogens against which colloidal silver has been used successfully, here is a tiny sample;

“acne, allergies, infections caused by ruptured appendix, arthritis, blood parasites, bubonic plague, burns, cancer, cholera, cold sores, colitis, cystitis, conjunctivitis, dermatitis, diabetes, dysentery, ear "affections", eczema, gastritis, gonorrhea, impetigo, influenza, hay fever, herpes, leukemia, lupus, lymphangitis, Lyme disease, malaria, meningitis, parasitic infections, pneumonia, psoriasis, prostatitis, rheumatism, rhinitis, ringworm, scarlet fever, septic conditions of the eyes, ears, mouth and throat, salmonella, septicemia, shingles, skin cancer, staph infections, strep infections, stomach ulcers, syphilis, tonsillitis, toxemia, trench foot, viruses (all forms), warts, and yeast infections.”

It cured all the above? WOW! Of coarse it has. Notice all the supporting proof. Wink. Wink. Shhhhhhh.


Tamarisk: “Joyce Riley was an Air Force Captain and a nurse. She is the chairman of the Gulf War Veterans Assoc., and has done much public speaking on Gulf War Illness from Gulf War I.”

Why would a nurse associate herself with such quackery? It goes directly to her credibility and judgment as a public figure. Looking at her program schedule listing she has dedicated many full programs to hokus pokus.

From her schedule: ”MONDAY - FEBRUARY 17: DR. DAN JUNKER details the benefits of flaxseed, the building blocks of self-repair and natural detoxification when used on a daily basis. Order Line: 1-877-817-9829

As a matter of fact I mix my “flaxseed oil” with turpentine and smear it on paint brushes. Artists and painting contractors call it LINSEED OIL! FOFL&L&L&L!

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2 "Romanists-R-Deceived" -- guess it all depends on who wears the booties - don't et?, 12:52:45 02/19/03 Wed

Who was the hair-splitting hypocrite that recently made the following judgemental pronouncement against those who use names like "Romanists-R-Deceived"?

"You've played those same games you did over on the old Reagan forums 4 years ago. Keep on playing those Pacadorian games, going into an anymouse mode. It's not hard to figure out when an handful of people are supposed to have the password.”"

guess it all depends on the wind dee-eye-rection, don't et, cowboy?

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Vatican Wrong Again -- Romanists-R-Deceived, 09:35:36 02/19/03 Wed

International New York Times

Vatican has issued what some Jewish scholars are calling an important document that explicitly says, "The Jewish wait for the Messiah is not in vain."


The scholarly work, effectively a rejection of and apology for the way some Christians have viewed the Old Testament, was signed by the pope's theologian, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.


The document says Jews and Christians in fact share the wait for the Messiah, though Jews are waiting for the first coming, and Christians for the second.


"The difference consists in the fact that for us, he who will come will have the same traits of that Jesus who has already come," wrote Cardinal Ratzinger, the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.


At least one Jewish scholar said the new document is a marked departure from "Dominus Iesus," a study of the redemptive role of Jesus that was released last year in Cardinal Ratzinger's name and that fanned disputes between Catholic and Jewish scholars.


The new document also says Catholics must regard the Old Testament as "retaining all of its value, not just as literature, but its moral value," said Joaquín Navarro-Valls, the pope's spokesman. "You cannot say, `Now that Jesus has come, it becomes a second-rate document.' "


"The expectancy of the Messiah was in the Old Testament," he went on, "and if the Old Testament keeps its value, then it keeps that as a value, too. It says you cannot just say all the Jews are wrong and we are right."


Asked whether that could be taken to mean that the Messiah may or may not have come, Dr. Navarro- Valls said no. "It means it would be wrong for a Catholic to wait for the Messiah, but not for a Jew," he said.


The document, the result of years of work by the Pontifical Biblical Commission, goes on to apologize for the fact that certain New Testament passages that criticize the Pharisees, for example, had been used to justify anti-Semitism.


Everything in the report is now considered part of official church doctrine, Dr. Navarro-Valls said.


The Rev. Albert Vanhoye, a Jesuit scholar who worked on the commission, said the project sees Scripture as a link between Christians and Jews, and the New Testament as a continuation of the Old, though divergent in obvious ways.


A number of Jewish scholars and leaders said they were pleased but stunned and would have to take some time to digest fully the complicated, 210-page study, published in French and Italian.


"This is something altogether new, especially compared with the earlier document from Ratzinger that was so controversial," said Rabbi Alberto Piattelli, a professor and leader of the Jewish community in Rome.


"This latest declaration is a step forward" in closing the wounds opened by that earlier document, Rabbi Piattelli said. "It recognizes the value of the Jewish position regarding the wait for the Messiah, changes the whole exegesis of biblical studies and restores our biblical passages to their original meaning. I was surprised."


Prof. Michael R. Marrus, dean of graduate studies at the University of Toronto, who specializes in the history of the Holocaust, was also complimentary. Professor Marrus was among the Jewish members of a panel studying the Vatican's role in the Holocaust, but the group was disbanded after disputes between Catholic and Jewish scholars.


"This is important," he said, "and all the more so because it comes from Cardinal Ratzinger, who is not considered the most liberal spokesman for the church. It represents real and remarkable progress on the Catholic-Jewish front," even as the dispute over the Catholic Church's wartime history seems to be hardening, he added.


At least initially, the only voices of dissent were on the Catholic side, where some traditionalists said they felt the church under Pope John Paul II had done altogether too much apologizing already.


Vittorio Messori, a Catholic writer and commentator, said he respects the pope but "his apologies leave me perplexed."


"He's inspired and has his reasons," Mr. Messori said, "but what's dangerous in these apologies is that he seems to say the church itself has been wrong in its teaching," rather than just some within the church.


The oddest thing about the document from the Jewish perspective is that it was so quietly released. It has been in bookstores here since November, but as a small book titled "The Jewish People and the Holy Scriptures in the Christian Bible," it drew no notice until the Italian news agency ANSA printed a small report on it Wednesday.


Tullia Zevi, a longtime Jewish community leader and commentator here, said: "The widespread opinion on the document is that it's trying to question the validity of past attitudes of the church, and seems an attempt to move us closer to together. So why was such an important document kept secret?"


One possibility, she said, was that the church was trying to avoid criticism within its own ranks.


Vatican officials, however, say it was not announced because it was seen mainly as a theological study intended for other theologians.


The Vatican is governed by tradition and habit, and is thus quite able to keep silent about even important new policies. In December, for example, word emerged without fanfare of new rules on the treatment of priests accused of pedophilia.


Andrea Riccardi, the founder of the Sant'Egidio Community, a left- leaning Catholic group with a history of mediating international conflicts and promoting religious dialogue, said he was most impressed by the depth of the new document.


"This should be reassuring" to Jews, he said, "especially because these last years have not been easy."


He said the document in no way backtracks from "Dominus Iesus" ("The Lord Jesus"), but does represent a significant shift.


"In the past, we've talked about an ancient, common heritage," he said. "But now, for the first time, we're talking about our future waiting for the Messiah and the end of time."


Waiting together?


"No," Mr. Riccardi said. "But waiting close to each other."

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Cactus -- Rosie, 00:10:20 02/15/03 Sat

”the Rumsfeld/Ridge comedy act”

“King George Sr.”

“AmeriKa”

“Bushwellian gobermint”

“NWO Bushes because King Georgie never renounced his membership in the very secretive, very Masonic Scull and Bones Society. They too, are members of the very wicked Bohemian Club of San Francisco and the Bohemian Grove in Sonoma County, California. It is a "playground" of the elite in AmeriKa were anything goes. We can toss into the fray, organizations like the Bilderburgers, the CFR, etc, etc, and so on.”

“Gulag AmeriKa”

“Jim Jones, a CIA operative”

“public "fool" system”

“Klintstones”

___________________________________________________________

Free will
Freedom of self determination and action independent of external causes.

The Biblical doctrine of Free Will endows those created in the image of God with the ability to have self determination and action independent of external causes. This, being the “free-est” Republic on the planet, we are all the more blessed with the freedom to choose to live elsewhere if that is our pleasure. This is a temporary “home.” It is by no means perfect. It is populated by imperfect fallen creatures, more of whom (than is the case in any other country;) are saved by the Grace of a loving God who paid for our sin and as such we will one time make our eternal home with Christ. It increasingly appears like you should consider exercising your God given free will and your Constitutional rights as a citizen of a country that you hate, to re-locate to a country that you find superior to the United States of America and more suited to your likes, needs, and tastes. All other English speaking countries are many times more socialist than the USA. For an education check out the entrance permit and citizenship requirements of Ireland. Australia or New Zealand.

Requirements for New Zealand Citizenship

all people travelling to Australia require an authority to travel

Applications for Entry to Ireland and the United Kingdom

Romans 13
Be Subject to Government
1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Titus 3
Godly Living
1 Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be (3) ready for every good deed,

1 Peter 2:9 (emphasis from the original text) “But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

12 Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.


Honor Authority

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,

14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.

15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.

16 Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.

17 Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.

18 Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.

19 For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.

20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.


Christ Is Our Example

21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,

22 WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;

23 and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;

24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

25 For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls. NASB

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[> Cactus -- How About Australia?, 14:41:47 02/15/03 Sat

GerryB.
In Response To All believers
Saturday February 15, 2003 at 15:13

"NOT LEGAL TO USE FULL NAME ON PRAYER LISTS.
A new federal law restricts Australian churches from using the full names of members on prayer lists without specific permission from each person. Churches can't put the names of ill members without their consent (2/6 Ala. Baptist). Clergy can't visit patients in hospitals unless each patient signs a permission form. This will restrict comforting the lonely and ill."
More restrictions by a government on what activities churches may engage in. Thank God that our constitution protects us here in the USA.

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[> [> Cactus -- Socialist Canada is Easy To Enter. (Who Wants Too?), 14:58:07 02/15/03 Sat

Millions of Canadians are profoundly troubled about the erosion of religious freedom and the natural rights of parents:

Startling examples of anti-religious bigotry increasingly come from Canada's ruling socialist political elite, including profoundly anti-Christian statements made recently by senior cabinet members of the current Ottawa government.

Intolerance of traditional faith is deeply entrenched in the Canadian judiciary and bureaucracy.

Religious broadcasters are subjected to censorship and restrictions on ownership that violate the spirit and the letter of the United States Constitution.

Judges are appointed at the sole discretion of the Prime Minister's inner circle -- like cabinet, ambassadorial, senior military and police, bureaucratic and human rights tribunal appointments etc.

Thus, the courts in Canada are even more aggressive in pursuing social revolution than their counterparts in the USA.

The Canadian Federal government recently extended benefits historically afforded to married couples to same sex partners -- without consultation of the Canadian public and against the objections of millions of Canadians.

Graduates of a major university are denied certification as teachers simply because the Judeo-Christian beliefs of that institution are considered "homophobic."

There are no laws whatsoever, to protect the unborn at any stage. Abortions are fully paid for by taxpayers, as are sex change operations and other questionable procedures that cater to the Leftist agenda of the cultural elite.

At every opportunity radical UN policies on social and moral issues are initiated and supported by our own Canadian government. Canadians finds themselves 'signed onto' extremist agendas that undermine not only national sovereignty, but also the family unit and parental rights -- without so much as a parliamentary debate, never mind a vote.

It should be noted that Canada's slide has been accelerated by the government's collaboration, since 1974, with the anti-family, global government agenda of the United Nations, by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which has turned the courts, especially the Supreme Court into law-makers and the notorious decisions of our various human rights tribunals.

Canada's legal system today is a travesty of the one symbolized in the Inns of Court and of the stare decisis lauded by Russell Kirk. Today, it is true to say that both Parliament and the courts have "lost the confidence, love and veneration" they always had.

SURELY IT IS NOT WORSE THAN BUSH & THE USA!!!

Or, IS IT?

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ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 07:49:51 02/14/03 Fri

Was reading with interest, the Drudge article concerning the US of A using non-lethal chemicals in Iraq. The comment was make by the Rumsfeld/Ridge comedy act.

The age old tactic of luring your enemy into attacking first is being employed here. Roosevelt used it against Japan to get them into WWII. The attack on Pearl Harbor was known for some time, yet the Roosevelt administration did nothing to stop it.

Some years later, in Gulf War I, King George Sr., used the same tactic to get Iraq to attack and invade Kuwait. The waiting game along with the propraganda stream is employed to give the "enemy" enough time to attack something or someone. Getting the enemy to attack first always saves face and makes an unjustified war, justifiable.

Of course, there is always the Planet X factor floating around out there. ;)

http://blindsided.planetx2003.com/

We had close to an inch of rain here in the desert the past few daze. More than what we've had for almost 2 years combined. Need more!!

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[> Re: ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- sick of your BS, 11:12:45 02/14/03 Fri

The United States appears to be your enemy. You have a better home country? Go there.

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[> [> Re: ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 11:58:46 02/14/03 Fri

Yep. This is where the real terrorists reside.

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[> [> [> "triple-false dichotomy'' -- well done my child, 13:45:58 02/14/03 Fri

Yep. An intelligent person who is honest and true to their word that really hates and loathes the United States - their "GooBerment" - and everything the United States of America represents would haveLEFT "AmeriKa" long ago. Instead they remain complain like a dripping faucet that continues to divide in war time according to the Hegelian Dialectic which they claim to eschew.

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[> [> [> Re: ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- Omega 3 Fish Oil, 14:37:11 02/14/03 Fri

>"Yep. This is where the real terrorists reside."

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_____________________________________________________


reg price: $299.95 + shipping ORDER ONLINE
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Me? A "terrorist"? Fish Oil! Nice rhetoric. Care to supply sum facts? Too much "PUMPKINOL" perhaps??? You need sum NEUTRALIZER GEL! The link you supplied has it on special. Check it out.

"Special 5: 8 oz. neutralizer gel special. Buy 3 get 1 free. $56.00 including shipping."

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ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 08:09:06 02/14/03 Fri

Joyce Riley and her husband, Dave VonKleist, this morning on their show, The PowerHour;

www.thepowerhour.com

Have reported their sources have said this is the weekend something will happen in Iraq, starting Gulf War II.

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ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 10:25:01 02/13/03 Thu

I posted this at the newly created "Heated Debates" forum.

tamarisk
In Response To Kat2
Thursday February 13, 2003 at 12:17

Are people like MM2 banned from the St. Susan forums? Why?

We shall c.

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[> Re: Tamarisk, Annie, E.Paul, ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- that will be da day!, 20:21:04 02/13/03 Thu

Posted by Message Alignment Officer
In Response To , cuz I think this place is gonna be a blast. hahahaha...later~
Thursday February 13, 2003 at 22:09

Kinda depends on how long the mod can keep her word... "

Boy, isn't that the truth! Their record for keeping their word has never seen the second 24-hours. In this case the reference refers to the banner stating that it is un-moderated. Yah! sure.

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[> [> Re: Tamarisk, Annie, E.Paul, ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 06:46:55 02/14/03 Fri

Just as Mikey Reagan about unmoderated forums. The old Reagan forums, with the various types of threads offered much. The second coming of the Reagan forums were doomed from the start.

What was the Dorito comment? They are trying to take over "OUR" forum. The last I checked, it belonged to Reagan, who was paying the freight. I thought it should have truly remained unmoderated. However, there was those, behind the scenes; those control freaks who needed to yank Reagan's chain. One can only guess they threatened to go to his sponsors. Whatever, it worked.

The Reagan forums would likely still be there if he had some backbone and not caved to the "old woman's clique!"

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Moron Pacadorian Follies -- tamarisk, 07:55:42 02/13/03 Thu

See iff'in ya'll can figure out who stands to benefit from the sales of duct tape, let me know. ;)

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[> Moron Pacadorian Follies -- a response, 20:12:18 02/13/03 Thu

See iff'in ya'll can figure out who stands to benefit
from the sales of duct tape, let me know. ;)

Glad to oblige. Meese thinks Charlie might "stand to benefit” from the purchase of about a five inch strip of duct tape. Question is, will she stand silent long enough for it to be applied so it will work it's charms. lol!

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ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 20:01:07 02/13/03 Thu


Reflections on "The Pastor, The Priest, and The "Profit.""

Jer 2:8
8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
(KJV)

Here, we find even the three primary classes of leaders established by G_d have turned against Him, as did the common people.(The Church of Today in AmeriKa?)

The Priests were to expound the law (Malachi 2:6-7--False prophets are indicted--This message is only meant for those, "For Profit, Prophets." It is NOT meant for those living a life of liberty and freedom according to the Holy Word of G_d. You can only get that freedom through Jesus Christ.)

The Pastors, (literally, shepherds or leaders), were not religious, but civil leaders. According to Jeremiah 3:14-15, these pastors or civil leaders, are those who fear and love the Lord. They are obedient to G_d. Under the theocracy, their duty was to lead the people in the way of the Lord, yet they themselves transgressed His way. I don't remember a single "pastor" of today, in the pulpit at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, in the District of Columbia, consistently proclaiming Jesus Christ as their King and Lord. They have given lip service to the G_d that created them, but, they do not worship Him or look to His Holy Word as their final authority.

The Prophets were to reclaim the people from apostasy, yet they encouraged it by pretending to have oracles from Baal, the false Phoenician god. We see this today in the false worship centers called Rome, Salt Lake City, et al, etc. Most of what you see on TBN is false preachers and priests, for "profit," prophets. Those supporting the "pastors" of today, those civil, name it and claim it, leaders are deceived. They are those going around life wearing blinders.

We must give prayerful consideration when fighting those "pastors," called civil leaders of today.

We need to read further, what the prophet Jeremiah has to say in Chapter 27. Here, Nebuchadnezzar had placed Zedekiah on the throne of Judah. However, he, along with the neighboring kings, was planning a rebellion. Jeremiah's message from the Lord was that this rebellion was be futile. The yokes and bonds G_d placed around Jeremiah's neck graphically demonstrated the UNALTERABLE Babylonian captivity.

G_d gives us the government we deserve. To fight against wicked, tyrannical government may be futile. The prophet Micah gives a "reality sandwich" to the Church of Today. The prophet not only speaks of himself, but on behalf of the godly remaining in the nation. He vividly describes the evil that is rampant in the land and points to Y'shua, the Lord Jesus Christ, Israel's and America's only hope for four reasons:

1. Because the godly have perished (7:1-6)

2. Because He is the source of light in darkness (7:7-13)

3. Because He cares for His people (7:14-17)

4. Because He pardons iniquity and keeps His word. (7:18-20)

So what must we do as the remnant Church of Today to fight evil, tyrannical governments and churches today? Of those three biblical principles I posted in an earlier posting;

Deception,

Avoidance,

Violent Self-Defense,

What should the "Fight the good fight of faith," fight be for the church, the Apostle Sh'aul spoke of, to the young preacher Timothy in 1 Timothy 6:12?


1 Tim 6:11-12
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
(KJV)

We have already established, from Old Testament scriptures, who and what is a pastor. Pastors of today are to LEAD their flocks in a righteous path.

7462 ra` ah (raw-aw');

a primitive root; to tend a flock; i.e. pasture it; intransitively, to graze (literally or figuratively); generally to rule; by extension, to associate with (as a friend).

Here, Sh'aul teaches young Timothy, to teach otherwise, "the words of our Lord Jesus Christ," (i.e. doctrine according to godliness--this includes the "sound, pure doctrines taught by His blessed Apostles), is perverse.

But, in striking contrast, the man of G_d should FLEE, FOLLOW, and FIGHT. Godly living may mean to FLEE from the love of money, being puffed up with pride, etc., for they are a snare to righteous living. Money is neither good nor bad. It is the attitude toward money that is good or bad. FLEEing the temptation for riches is ever present and Sh'aul tells Timothy to run from this desire. Instead he was to FOLLOW or "to run" after righteousness. We are NOT to allow ourselves to be defeated by those snares from which we FLEE, but clothed in the Spirit. The word FIGHT means to engage in a contest. This contest is the whole life of the believer striving to win "the prize of the high calling of G_d," in Y'shua, the Lord Jesus Christ. (Phil 4:13)

For those doubting "once saved, always saved" doctrinal teachings, note here. Timothy was already saved and possessed eternal life. The idea here is one of getting a hold of this promise of eternal life until "the things of the earth grow strangely dim." Being CALLED is a great high calling and every believer has this same calling in life. Timothy had already professed a "good profession" before many witnesses, as every believer should. (I have been in contact with a church in another part of Arizona. I told him in an email, I would love to visit for fellowship and testimony. This is how we are to know other Born Again, Bible Believing Christians.)

This was the Lord's commandment to His disciples in the Book of Acts.

Acts 1:4-5
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
(KJV)

Why didn't they go out and preach Jesus Christ risen, at this time? Why was it necessary for the disciples to continue to be taught by the Lord, and to see Him taken up into heaven?

II Ki 2:9-10
9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
(KJV)

Why? Because they had not yet received the promise of the Father (Joel 2:28; Acts 2:16), and of the Son(John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7), which is "The Comforter," The Ruach HaKodesh, The Holy Spirit of G_d. It was necessary for The Master to leave for the Comforter to come. It was also necessary, according the above verses in II Kings, for the disciples, (and Elisha) to receive a DOUBLE PORTION of the Masters power. Both Elisha and the Apostles of the Lord did twice as many miracles as their Masters.

So, fighting a fight without tikvat, hope and without any hope of winning is not a good fight to be in. I needed daily encouragement from the Lord each and every day I stood out front of the execution chambers. Each time I wrote governmental officials concerning injustices within the prison system. I certainly needed the Spirit when I entered into a prison and they closed the same clanking Iron Gate behind me as every convict heard. It was the same squeaking Iron Gate the Apostle Sh'aul heard when he was thrown in prison.

Why fight? Because there are Sins of Omission and Commission. A message which has a primary application to the Jews during the Tribulation period, but certainly has significance for the Church of Today is found in Matthew 25:31-46. Here we see the coming day when the Lord will separate the sheep and the goats. Those on his right hand, and those on his left hand. There is a difference here between this judgment and the Great White Throne judgment near the end of the book of Revelation. These people and nations are living. Those appearing before the Great White Throne judgment are dead.

It's when you fail, as a person or a church, to defend the rights of precious babies in their mothers' womb or to cry out against governments and the bought and paid for, welfare, 501 c 3, corporate churches for failing this. These are but a few of the real terrorists in AmeriKa today. It's when you fail to give your brother meat or drink, visit him in prison, when he is sick or in good health by NOT ministering to their need.

There are many for "profit," prophets in the world today. They will tell you many things. It is up to the Christian to discern truth and light, in a gathering sea of darkness. As important as this fight is, fighting is works. They can only be counted as good works if they give honor and the glory to Jesus Christ.

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Obviously Some Churchless Bishops Have Multiple Reasons For HATING Even Scales! -- Sola Scriptura blows a kiss to hyppo-critters at PFAKE. Inc., 13:14:35 02/13/03 Thu

Speaking of Proverbs and EVEN SCALES.....Gotta love hippo-critter-bedroom-bishops like jackals………….


”The COWARD Is back and HIDING Behind Proxies Again
by Rev. Jack Howell (Premier Login RevJack2002)


02/09/03 08:34:31 IP block 200.27.152.3
Trying 200.27.152.3 at ARIN
Trying 200.27.152 at ARIN

OrgName: Latin American and Caribbean IP address Regional Registry
OrgID: LACNIC
Address: Potosi 1517
City: Montevideo
StateProv:
PostalCode: 11500
Country: UY

NetRange: 200.0.0.0 - 200.255.255.255
CIDR: 200.0.0.0/8
NetName: LACNIC-200
NetHandle: NET-200-0-0-0-1
Parent:
NetType: Allocated to LACNIC
NameServer: ARROWROOT.ARIN.NET
NameServer: BUCHU.ARIN.NET
NameServer: CHIA.ARIN.NET
NameServer: DILL.ARIN.NET
NameServer: NS.LACNIC.ORG
NameServer: NS.DNS.BR
NameServer: NS2.DNS.BR
Comment: This IP address range is under LACNIC responsibility for further
Comment: allocations to users in LACNIC region.
Comment: Please see http://www.lacnic.net/ for further details, or check the
Comment: WHOIS server located at whois.lacnic.net
RegDate: 2002-07-27
Updated: 2002-12-12

TechHandle: LACNIC-ARIN
TechName: LACNIC Hostmaster
TechPhone: (+55) 11 5509-3525
TechEmail: hostmaster@lacnic.net

OrgTechHandle: LACNIC-ARIN
OrgTechName: LACNIC Hostmaster
OrgTechPhone: (+55) 11 5509-3525
OrgTechEmail: hostmaster@lacnic.net

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-02-08 20:00
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

Rev. Jack Howell”

Yes in deed, BLACK-BLACK-Jack, I mean Bishop Beezle-Bubba, I mean “Brother Jack”,…… I mean, “Jason”…..I mean “Pilgram’s Progress”………I mean Bishop 400-plus proxy bedroom-bishop addies.

===========================================================

”Subject: on black jack who consorts with demons


Author:
Forum Administrator

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 06:38:53 07/29/02 Mon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So far black jack, trying to make it seem that he has someone supporting him as "pilgrim's progress", has used the following ISP's:

Author:
Rev. Jack Howell
Author Host/IP: ip68-12-221-220.ok.ok.cox.net / 68.12.221.220

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 07:46:58 07/27/02 Sat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statement of Faith
======================

Author:
Pilgrim's Progress
Author Host/IP: NoHost / 200.241.164.67

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 03:58:39 07/27/02 Sat
==============================

Author:
Pilgrim's Progress
Author Host/IP: maq241i.advance.com.ar / 200.41.234.241

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 08:09:46 07/27/02 Sat
=========================

Author:
Pilgrim's Progress
Author Host/IP: NoHost / 200.25.10.65

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 08:20:27 07/27/02 Sat”


What was that the hypocrite with all the phony titles was saying about others who use dishonest means and PFAKE proxies/names to post?

Yes, PFAKE tell us all about your uneven scales and your matters of hypocrisy!

Anyone can see by looking at the IP numbers listed above that the SHE-WOLF JACK used his proxy server, and LIED about it, like all men of DARKNESS who must cover their actions from the TRUTH. SHE-WOLF JACK must lie and DECEIVE to keep his actions shrouded in secrecy and black of night. There is no light in SHE-WOLF JACK. SHE is a man of utter debauchery.

Job 21

17
"How often is the lamp of the wicked put out,
Or does their calamity fall on them?
Does God apportion destruction in His anger?

18
"Are they as straw before the wind,
And like chaff which the storm carries away?

19
"You say, God stores away a man's iniquity for his sons.'
Let God repay him so that he may know it.

20
"Let his own eyes see his decay,
And let him drink of the wrath of the Almighty. AMEN!!! and AMEN!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We who have Christ may REJOICE!!!

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[> Re: Obviously Some Churchless Bishops Have Multiple Reasons For HATING Even Scales! -- tamarisk, 17:07:25 02/13/03 Thu

I plugged in a few of those IP numbers into my browser. My Spanish is none to good. lol!!

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ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 08:37:19 02/13/03 Thu

Gotta laugh at the duplicity of the Mods at the St. Susan forums(notably PP). Seems they banned ACNR for about the same thangs.

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[> Tamarisk, ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany, St Iguanas, Preludium, Annie, ekklesia -- ekklesia, 12:51:42 02/13/03 Thu

>Gotta laugh at the duplicity of the Mods at the St.
>Susan forums(notably PP). Seems they banned ACNR for
>about the same thangs.

This was my final post. It obviously convicted them in the spirit. It was un-obstructed by commentary and was posted without comment. It so convicted them that I was for ever banned. What does this say about them?

PROVERBS 16:11
"Just balance and scales belong to the LORD;
All the weights of the bag are His concern."

Proverbs 20
23 Differing weights are an abomination to the LORD,
And a false scale is not good.


It obviously exposed their mockery of God's Word, and convicted them of their contrived, proud, man-invented justice. The two edged sword of God's Word cut them to the quick! For a straight scriptural post, I was banned and in the process their father was exposed.

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ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 11:03:26 02/13/03 Thu

dori
In Response To Ctaj
Thursday February 13, 2003 at 11:54

You should take the canoe trip DOWN the Snake River, starting at Jackson Hole, instead of up. That's an awful lot of paddling. *-)

And her blindly defending the RCC is a trip UP, or DOWN the river.

Dorito, I'm an avid outdoorsman. I am a lifetime member of the Buckeye Trail Association. For those not knowing, the Buckeye Trail encompasses some 1500 miles around the state of Ohio. I worked on a trail crew and managed about 10 miles of trail between Cleveland and Akron.

I have over 17,000 miles riding a bike. Some weeks, I logged over 200 miles of combined riding and hike miles. I can tell you the distinct difference between hiking or riding uphill, as opposed to hiking or riding downhill. They both have their own difficulties. They use some of the same muscles, while using different ones.

My bike has 21 speeds. I use all of them going uphill. I don't need any of them going down hill. I USE them because I enjoy the cadence. The cadence helps me disconnect with the "problems" of traffic. I usually listen to a walkman(as I enjoy talk radio), to disconnect from traffic.

Anyone who has ever ventured into the woods knows, there is that special, predictable time they disconnect from the "world." There comes that time when they no longer key in on traffic noise, the problems of the "world." They are "in tune" with the solitutide of being with themselves(and, in my case, with G_d).

I've been "down" the Cuyahoga River(in Ohio). The word Cuyahoga, in Indian, means crooked. I can tell you, from the experience of sitting in, so called, courts of law in Cleveland, Ohio, it means crooked.

"Paddling up stream," is not a bad thang. I've been in both canoe and kayak. There is not a thang in this world, in my Christian Walk, I have not been able to "connect" with the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, the Tikvat Israel/The Hope of Israel/The Lord Jesus Christ. He alone is my hope.

You, however, Dorito, remind me of a someone named John. I had and encounter with John, one day, in front of the execution chambers, in Cleveland, Ohio. John was an "officer" for the "rent a cops," keeping watch out front of the killing chambers, called abortion clinics.

John made the statement to me, one Saturday, he was a Christian, a Catholic, who wore a "cross" around his neck. He further stated, "I have to take my cross off daily to do my job."

Dorito, what kind of a testimony is that?

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Moron Pacadorian Follies -- tamarisk, 10:07:02 02/13/03 Thu

Kat_02
In Response To Ctaj
Thursday February 13, 2003 at 11:46

Actually, there are plenty of discussions on pp that are thoughtful, important and educational... some folks just thinks it's really important to add a few dumbass hurtful comments to take it down to gutter levels. Let them have at it here. If people enjoy the personal attacks in teh midst of a serious discussion about how our country is ran...they can have at it here. I really don't see how calling someone sh*tforbrains adds to teh discussion about the war w/Iraq..but to each his own. Thank God serious writers don't have to write books with it.

Tamarisk comments--Youssse c, it was the Dorito unit of Pacadorian fame, who took GellyB to task for using, what she considered profanity. The Connie unit further commented to the point, it would lead ME to believe, she didn't understand to scope of the post.

I have studied the biblical difference between, cursing a curse(BEFORE G_d), swearing an oath(BEFORE G_d), and using profanity. Has the Dorito unit used profanity since she took Gellyb to task for doing the same thang?

Does the word "hypocrite" mean anythang to Dorito? Possibly, she needs to do her "watching" in her church chapel, 24/7.

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Moron Pacadorian Follies -- tamarisk, 10:03:16 02/13/03 Thu

Kat_02
In Response To Ctaj
Thursday February 13, 2003 at 11:46

Actually, there are plenty of discussions on pp that are thoughtful, important and educational... some folks just thinks it's really important to add a few dumbass hurtful comments to take it down to gutter levels. Let them have at it here. If people enjoy the personal attacks in teh midst of a serious discussion about how our country is ran...they can have at it here. I really don't see how calling someone sh*tforbrains adds to teh discussion about the war w/Iraq..but to each his own. Thank God serious writers don't have to write books with it.

Tamarisk comments--Youssse c, it was the Dorito unit of Pacadorian fame, who took GellyB to task for using, what she considered profanity. The Connie unit further commented to the point, it would lead ME to believe, she didn't understand to scope of the post.

I have studied the biblical difference between, cursing a curse(BEFORE G_d), swearing an oath(BEFORE G_d),

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ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 09:55:42 02/13/03 Thu

Yousse gotta love the "Heated Discussions Debate" forum.

http://www.webforums.com/forums/f-read/msa56.84.html

Kinda shows dem for what da really r. lol!!!

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ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 07:52:43 02/13/03 Thu

Some blasts from the past.

dori
Posted: Friday March 15, 2002 at 16:10 PST
Sharon is right, hon. This is the place where we can all have fellowship without strife. Religious debate belongs at R1. Bet if you two went there and ignored Ctaj and just had your discussion, he'd eventually go away, too. Grin...

GerryB.
Posted: Friday March 15, 2002 at 21:32 PST
A person who I think might have been our old "friend" ACNR who called himself "Curious" started ripping me over on the Alternate Christianity forum a few days ago for being a friend to Margaret. His complaint was that I should not be a friend to "oneness people." I finally, after several posts figured out who he was and asked Robin to check on him. She did and wiped him right out of existence. Praise God!! There are enough people out there who want to give us problems that we should not be giving each other problems. Please think about that and show a little love for each other here. Thank you for reading this. I know what Margaret believes and I can accept our differences without letting it hurt our friendship just as I do with dori.

Tamarisk notes--The first one amuzed me because, just last night, the Pacadorian units proved they could NOT get involved in the conversation.

The BellyG comment is classic GellyB and why he is unstable in his Christian walk. I'm not debating his salvation, only his stablilty. Given his comments of a week or so ago, concerning his doubt as to whether Mags is saved, or not.....you get the picture.

Prov 16:18
18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
(KJV)

Dontch tink, GellyB, you should use what the Bible sayz concerning testing the spirits before you enter into unholy pacts and alliances with the unsaved?

dori
Posted: Wednesday February 12, 2003 at 23:07 PST
Well, I guess it all boils down to whether or not you trust your government. I do. I do not think they are all part of an evil conspiracy to turn us all into mindnumbed amatons. I happen to think my government is honest and wants to protect me from harm. These men were apprehended because of their known association with terrorists and their previous terrorist activities. Do I think all people who work with government agencies are above reproach? No. Do I think George Bush and his son are in cahoots with the royal family of England to create a world government? Guffaw!!! Yeah, right.

Tamarisk comments--NO Dorito, I don't trust the Bushwellian gobermint. I don't trust the NWO Bushes because King Georgie never renounced his membership in the very secretive, very Masonic Scull and Bones Society. They too, are members of the very wicked Bohemian Club of San Francisco and the Bohemian Grove in Sonoma County, California. It is a "playground" of the elite in AmeriKa were anything goes. We can toss into the fray, organizations like the Bilderburgers, the CFR, etc, etc, and so on.

Dorito, you have that typical "deer in the headlights" stair, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News like to interview. "Fair and Balanced?" I don't think so! Your post fell off the thread yesterday concerning your blind sheeple following of the Church of Rome. If you really believe you can still be a "good Catholic" and NOT believe all of Rome's dictates claiming, "It's between me and G_d," you then should present yourself to your parish priest and claim to be Born Again.

You are being deceitful! But, Dorito dear, you can't fool or fight G_d and win.

dori
In Response To Jim
Thursday February 13, 2003 at 0:56
If they were caught trying to commit terrorist acts on this country, they do not deserve due process until the guys who know a little more about this stuff than you and I do determine they are not a threat to this country. Once that has been determined, they are entitled to due process.

If you had the temerity for truth, you would understand what happens down in Cuba, at "Gutmo." One reporter asked an officer there about the US troops practicing torture to get the "prisoners" to talk. His response was, "Of course not. We send them to other countries for that."

This is Gulag AmeriKa, Dorito. You can't fight because you don't know who or whom to fight, what the fight is about, and when to fight. "Being estranged from your husband," is the lest of your problems. You could find yourself being estranged from G_d. Which is worse?

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The Magical Mystery Tour & "Karmic Debt" -- OM-M-M-M, 03:21:49 02/13/03 Thu

minder
In Response To Sim
Wednesday February 12, 2003 at 19:45

""out of their mind". "
No, Sim, it's minds. Plural. Each having an individual MIND. And, as strange as it seems, the more "out of one's MIND one is" the nearer to one's Spirituality one is. But, this is getting somewhat mystical. Ha, Ha.

___________________________________________________

minder
In Response To Kat 02
Wednesday February 12, 2003 at 19:40

"it can take a long time to figure out how to stop letting it aggravate us. In the meantime..our health is affected. "
Precisely. But the "trick" is to let go of seeking to avoid "letting it aggravate us", and completely embrace the pain of it all in the form of intense grief. When alone, just let it rip..deep sobs, and lots of tears. Feel as sorry for yourself as you possibly can. This is the "secret" of emotionally nullifying your Karmic debts.

_______________________________________________________

Man is not divine, but a sinner (Romans 3:23).

He is deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9).

He is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23).

He loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19).

He is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12).

He is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6).

He is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1).

He is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3).

He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).

Salvation is not correct thought, but deliverance from the consequence of our sin (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8-9).

Salvation is God's deliverance from damnation (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 1:18; 2:5; 5:9).

This salvation is found in no one but Jesus alone (Acts 4:12).

All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory. The wages of sin are death. There is no "Karmic Debt."

Christ means "anointed. Jesus was the Christ, the anointed one." It does not mean a consciousness or quality of people. Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah, the Deliverer from sin.

Jesus is the Christ (Matt. 16:16,20; Luke 9:20).

"Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory" (Luke 24:26).

"Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and rise again from the dead the third day" (Luke 24:46 ).

"...we have found the Messiah (which translated means Christ)" (John 1:41).

"He [David] looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ..." (Acts 2:31).

"...God has made Him both Lord and Christ this Jesus whom you crucified" (Acts 2:36).

"For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly" (Rom. 5:6).

"Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life" (Rom. 6:4).

Christ is crucified (1 Cor. 1:23).

You sin against Christ (1 Cor. 8:12).

The blood of Christ (1 Cor. 10:16).

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ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 08:11:32 02/12/03 Wed

A correction on Larry Nichols site.

www.callonthelord.com

The article on the Illuminati plot to assassinate GWB is found at:

www.stewwebb.com

It was a reprint of a "prophesy" by someone about Bush. It was an interesting read though. Was reading this in relation to why I don't believe "all governments are ordained by G_d." The whole institution of Old Testament, through kingship was not G_d's plan. G_d allowed and gave the people the imaginations of their hearts. Does, or did, G_d use these men, and, in a few cases, women in government for His own design and plan? Yes!

I have heard GWB has a testimony to his faith. However, he, like the Klintstones before him, pander to the One World Goobermint/One World Religion(World and National Council of Church types). The very fact GWB may sign bills banning brain suction abortion is meaningless, on the right hand, if his left hand is doing what is evil in the sight of the Lord. Of course, doing what is right; calling on the name of the Lord; proclaiming "Thus sayeth the Lord," would either get him killed or become a one term wonder like is daddy.

The dembimbos have no one else in 2004 with chrisma and can win, other than a Jezebel/Hillary the Hun.

Someday, somebody will be able to answer me these questions. If Russia and China are the major sponsors of terror and terrorism in the world today, why are we going to attack Iraq? What will Russia do when they finally realize the sole purpose for the USA to attack Iraq and Saddam, is oil and NOT terrorism. Russia, and China for that matter, has a vested interest in Iraq. Both have supplied military supplies and equipment to Iraq. So has the USA.

Russia gets a large supply of oil from Iraq. Russia has large deposits of crude oil itself. The only reason for the USA involvement in Afganistan is because Russia had a deal to run a pipeline through that country to get its crude oil to a deep water port. They have the product but no way of getting it to market.

The motivating factor, of course, is the Bush/Cheney connection to oil and energy companies. They have made millions through these companies. If GWB is assassinated by the Illuminati, we then get Cheney. Cheney has been called by some "the most wicked man in America."

Jer 12:1-6
1 Righteous art thou, O LORD, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of thy judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously?
2 Thou hast planted them, yea, they have taken root: they grow, yea, they bring forth fruit: thou art near in their mouth, and far from their reins.
3 But thou, O LORD, knowest me: thou hast seen me, and tried mine heart toward thee: pull them out like sheep for the slaughter, and prepare them for the day of slaughter.
4 How long shall the land mourn, and the herbs of every field wither, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein? the beasts are consumed, and the birds; because they said, He shall not see our last end.
5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
6 For even thy brethren, and the house of thy father, even they have dealt treacherously with thee; yea, they have called a multitude after thee: believe them not, though they speak fair words unto thee.
(KJV)

The prophet here has a problem with the prosperity of the wicked, and he asks for their destruction. G_d, however, promised him the wicked would be destroyed in due time. I.L. Jensen, in Jeremiah and Lamentations wrote:

"The world today needs more Jeremiahs who, in the midst of opposition, are true to the standard of the Bible, patient in the proclaimation of the gospel, gentile in the hands of persecutors, burdened for the souls of lost men and women. Satan and the world may conspire against the servant of G_d, but the conspiracy is really against G_d, and G_d is invincible!" (pg 48)

I read an R1 comments by BellyG the other day in reference to "all his prayers are answered by G_d," and "I heard from G_d this morning." What will GerryB do in that day when G_d decides not to deliver him? We "hear" from G_d each and every time we go to Him in prayer according to His Word, the Bible. If the Bible Believing Christian believes the Bible is the infallible, inspired truth, G_d cannot nor will not do anything contrary to that truth.

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[> Tamarisk, ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- Sola Shemei Kicking Up The Dust - again, LOL!, 01:53:45 02/13/03 Thu

WARS AND RUMORS OF ...... WAR CONSPIRACIES????


~ ~ ~ ”why I don't believe "all governments are ordained by G_d."”

If that refers to some of my comments which do not concur with your own position regarding government and Romans; allow me to briefly restate the short version of my position here so that I may not be misunderstood by others lurking who are new.

Romans 13
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. KJV

Romans 13
Be Subject to Government
1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. NAS

Romans 13
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. NIV


Daniel 2
21 "It is He who changes the times and the epochs;
He removes kings and establishes kings;
He gives wisdom to wise men
And knowledge to men of understanding.


John 19
11 Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."

Job 12
18 "He loosens the bond of kings
And binds their loins with a girdle.

Daniel 4
17 "This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchers
And the decision is a command of the holy ones,
In order that the living may know
That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind,
And bestows it on whom He wishes
And sets over it the lowliest of men."
32 and you will be driven away from mankind, and your dwelling place will be with the beasts of the field. You will be given grass to eat like cattle, and seven periods of time will pass over you until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it on whomever He wishes.'


This is pretty unambiguous: There is no authority except that which God has established” And it has been that way with government from the first day God’s people rebelled against God and chose for themselves their first monarchy headed by Saul, then followed by King David. God was in control of both of those selections and has “established” every government in the world since. God is imbued with Omnipotence, Omnipresence, and Omniscience. These attributes represent the nature of God concerning His relation to his creation. Creation is separate from God, but not independent of Him. Man may not establish a government against God’s sovereignty. It can not be done; “freewill” or not. From the beginning when man first rejected God by wanting to install his own government (kings) - no king was ever crowned against the sovereignty of God. Although man chose kings over judges, God chose the king. I am reminded of the example of the grumbling Israelites with Moses in the desert, complaining about their single dietary food of manna. God said, “you want quail – you will get quail! - Choke on it.” Man has choked on more than a few rulers.


~ ~ ~ “The very fact GWB may sign bills banning brain suction abortion is meaningless, on the right hand, if his left hand is doing what is evil in the sight of the Lord……

Meaningless? You are being rhetorical, or course. Banning ANY type of abortion is not meaningless.

………”Of course, doing what is right; calling on the name of the Lord; proclaiming "Thus sayeth the Lord," would either get him killed or become a one term wonder like is daddy.”

Doesn’t that argument tend to support the fact that God does “ordain government” afterall? (eg.: to establish government)

Even though it would be a flawed argument as presented since it tends to suggest there is some sort of a Godly merit system. Good, two terms. Bad, one term. Real bad, bullets. There exists no Biblical doctrine to consistently support a position that Bush might be serving either a one or two term-er based on Bush’s goodness or accumulated evil. The term/term’s duration will ultimately NOT depend on Bush’s goodness OR his evil but, rather, on the Will, Sovereignty and Omnipotence of God alone. Perhaps it was another rhetorical comment. The Word teaches that Bush’s term in office will have nothing to do with his saying: "Thus sayeth the Lord." To illustrate the theme of this point; look at two term-er Clinton with regard to that hypothesis. He was one of the most fouled and debauched figures in American Politics ever to taint the Oval Office; yet how many terms did Clinton serve? Was he re-elected for his pleasing aroma to a Holy God? My observation (and it is just a guess) was that Clinton was what the sinful American populace as a whole deserved. He reflected society's sin.

Jesus said:
”I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist;……. Matthew 11:11

And yet John the Baptist was allowed to be beheaded by Herod. My considered guess is that Bush will turn on Israel at some juncture and THAT event will spell disastrous results for America and perhaps Bush over and above other considerations.

~ ~ ~ What will Russia do when they finally realize the sole purpose for the USA to attack Iraq and Saddam, is oil and NOT terrorism.
The motivating factor, of course, is the Bush/Cheney connection to oil and energy companies. They have made millions through these companies. If GWB is assassinated by the Illuminati, we then get Cheney. Cheney has been called by some "the most wicked man in America."

Since when has Russia, or their former USSR ever needed an excuse to act unilaterally? Perhaps that is connected to the "hook" in Ezekiel (?) - Besides, what about this: doesn’t the black helicopter crowd consider Bush to be “Illuminati.”? So, let me see if I have this correct; the Illuminati supposedly procures Bush’s election to the Oval office through all their dirty dealings, control, and power, having successfully planted Bush in office, they THEN have him picked off to be replaced by another Illuminati member with a bad ticker? Doo-do, Doo-do, doo-do.

“The motivating factor, of course, is the Bush/Cheney connection to oil and energy companies.”
Environmentalists made the same types of argument more than 20 years ago about the trans-Alaska oil pipeline and drilling in the small area that now produces oil near Prudhoe Bay. If Bush and Chaney really were going into Iraq for the sole reason of taking control of oil, why not go after Venezuela instead, or push for the opening of the Alaska oil reserve in our own camp instead?

Sometimes a person’s personal dislike for Bush colors their perception regarding him and his activities and seems to evidence itself in ad hominum remarks that hurt their logic more than it detracts from the person it targets.

Bottom line - I say, Horse Pucky! Speaking of which, has anyone ever tried to run THEIR transportation (car, plane, bus) or home heating on horse pucky fuel? Or, has anyone tried to make their plastics and hospital supplies with horse manure? Or pharmaceuticals, electricity, chemicals, heating or lubricants with horse manure? Consider, however, that even if it were valid, natural resources have been a primary reason among factions through out the ages for engaging in war.

BTW, So what if they made millions from oil? Seems like an irrelevant attack upon a person to deflect the argument from the facts and reasons. What does their wealth have to do with it? All of these arguments are, unfortunately also in the left’s playbook. Sorry, who ever this source is will have to punch someone else’s dance card. I'm sitting this dance out based on my information. Sorry my friend.

The United States rightly decided it could not permit potentially hostile small powers to acquire such weapons as those we know Iraq has. Saddam Hussein already has chemical and biological weapons and is nearing nuclear capability as well. Mr. Bush thus has two choices: To try to force North Korea to back down, and thereby give Saddam precious months or years to become a nuclear power in his own right, or block Saddam first and then deal with North Korea. He prudently chose the latter course in my opinion.

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"Ah, yes waiter - I'll have the '95 Château-Margaux, and tell them to hold the mad cow." -- LOL!, 15:47:53 02/12/03 Wed



Questionary Copyright © 2003, Robin Garr.
All rights reserved.


Mad cow disease: Is it a danger in wine?

"I just read an article about Mad Cow Disease and French wine," writes reader Chuck R. "It makes me nervous there is a tiny chance I could go mad from my 1991 Chateau Mouton Rothschild. Please comment on how safe French wines are."
With my apologies for taking on a rather unappetizing wine-related topic, this is a fair question that deserves a straight answer. The short answer is, "Don't worry: The French wine you'll find on retail shelves around the world is safe."

If you'd like a little more information about the possible connection between French wine and mad cows, stick with me for another 30 seconds or so.

The underlying issue involves a wine-making trick called "fining," in which a protein is mixed into wine in vats or barrels to attract colloidal materials that could make the wine cloudy or hazy. These proteins fall to the bottom of the vats and the wine is siphoned away from them; in theory, at least, none of the fining material remains in the clarified wine. Traditional fining agents include a variety of odd substances, including isinglass (made from fish bladders), egg whites and, in some parts of the Rhone Valley in France, dried oxblood or blood albumen.

These old-fashioned practices are somewhat dying out in any case; most modern wineries, including virtually all larger wineries, now pass wine through bentonite (clay) filters rather than using organic finings.

Because of legitimate concerns about the epedimic of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), popularly called "mad cow disease," which became epidemic among cattle in Britain during the 1990s and which has been associated with the human brain disorder Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the European Economic Community banned the use of oxblood for wine fining in 1997.

That's why a publicity storm arose in 1999 when French authorities "raided" 14 small wineries in the Rhone region near Avignon, seized several hundred pounds of dried oxblood and albumen, and confiscated 100,000 bottles of suspect wine.

The uproar prompted the Chinese government briefly to ban French-wine imports (the ban has since been lifted). Three United States senators also proposed a warning label be required on French wines, a proposal that apparently received no serious attention and promptly died.

In fact, experts offer the following reassurances:


The only French wines implicated in the mini-scandal were made by tiny wineries whose products (labeled "VDQS" under the French wine regulations) are sold as generic table wine and rarely exported. None of the "better" wines labeled "appellation controllee" or "vin de pays" are believed to be affected.

Even among the "suspect" wineries, no charges have been made that oxblood was actually used to make wine since the 1997 ban. What's more, only sporadic outbreaks of BSE - a reported 60 incidents in all French cattle since 1984 - have made it across the English Channel to the Continent. Quick action has apparently confined the epidemic to the United Kingdom.

Finally, as noted above, "finings" don't remain in the finished wine, save perhaps in molecular quantities far below the level of tolerable risk.
Ultimately, every consumer must make his own choice about what's safe. But I can't see any imaginable risk.

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ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- tamarisk, 12:15:11 02/11/03 Tue

Have been down on the farm, so to speak. Been investigating occurances of Newcastle disease and, possibly, Mad Cow disease, down on the CRIT(Colorado River Indian Tribes) Reservation. I have come across an increasing number of dead birds around here lately. There are pieces to the puzzle fitting like a glove. With all the heavy overspraying via chemtrails, in this area, it's no surprise. There were hundreds, if not a few thousand, chickens destroyed because of Newcastle.

Found this from a friend off of his website www.justcallonthelord.com from Larry Nichols.

Wednesday Jan. 29, 2003; 8:26 a.m. EST
Larry Nichols: Hillary Is Running

Pioneer Clinton whistleblower Larry Nichols has some advice for anyone who heard Hillary Clinton's announcement on Friday that she's so committed to serving out her term as New York's Senator that she'd turn down a presidential draft.

Don't believe it for a minute, says the old Arkansas hand, who helped get Bill Clinton elected and reelected to five terms as governor and was rewarded with a high-level appointment to the Arkansas Development and Finance Authority for his trouble.

"She's waiting, biding her time, and then she's going to be drafted into the race," Nichol's told NewsMax on Tuesday.

"She's using a trick we used with Bill a million times," said the one-time Clinton insider. "We always had him 'drafted,'" Nichols said, explaining that they'd use rigged polls to make it seem like Bill was the only one who could do the job.

Nichols recalled how, nine years before Hillary promised New Yorkers she would serve out her term as Senator, Bill managed to extract himself from the exact same promise made to Arkansans when he was governor; a pledge that would have kept him in Arkansas two years past the 1992 presidential election.

"In the 1990 campaign, I asked the moderator of a debate in Fayetteville to ask Bill if he wasn't just going use the governor's job as a platform to run for president," the one-time Clinton insider said. As planned, Clinton made the promise that he wouldn't run for the White House.

"That was in November - and by January, he hardly set foot in the governor's office anymore. He was out running for president," Nichols remembered. In fact, Clinton was traveling so much during his pre-campaign for the White Houses that he almost fell below the legal requirement for the minimum number of days a sitting governor had to reside in Arkansas.

In 1991, to mollify voters who less than a year ago had elected him based on his promise to stay, Clinton staged a series of town hall meetings with the help of his supporters in the Democratic Party.

"He'd tell the crowds that he was being called on to run for president, but instead he was determined not to give up being governor," Nichols recalled. "But then he'd always add the qualification that he'd only leave if they thought he could do more for Arkansas as President of the United States."

"So he went around to 20 or so of his handpicked places, and of course, they all said, 'Go, Bill, go!'"

Nichols notes that Hillary already seems to be laying the groundwork for a simliar bait and switch, explaining, "When she denies she's running, she'll always say something like, 'I'm going to back whoever the nominee of our party is.'"

That's meant to sound as if she's talking about someone else, said the former Clinton insider. "But if you'll notice, that doesn't exactly leave her out."

And there's something else that may be even more troubling than the notion of Hillary running for president. In recent months Sen. Clinton has made homeland security her cause celeb, going so far as to complain on Friday that the Bush administration's efforts in that realm have been "a myth."

Conventional wisdom says that national security is an issue that almost always favors the GOP. But what if there's another terrorist attack on George Bush's watch; one that comes after Hillary warned America was unprepared?

"Either Hillary's going against Bill's advice never to pose an open ended question," said Nichols, "or she has reason to believe something will go down that's going to make her warnings look brilliant."

Larry Nichols can be heard through his own program and twice weekly on What's Right, What's Left Radio, on www.truthradio.com. He is usually on from 11-12pm EST. The days are not etched in stone.


There are many things feeding all that is happening in the world today. Was reading an interesting article on the web concerning the possiblilty of the assassination of GWB coming to pass.

Who, or whom does the New World Order want to destroy in this world? Its opposition? Yes! And that opposition consists mainly of those calling themselves Born-Again Christians and Conservative. Those calling themselves Christian Patriots and Christian Activists.

Those of us who study the Holy Word of G_d understand Christian Activism involves the very biblical teachings on,

Deception
Avoidance
Violent Self-Defense

The Bible, in The New Testament in Hebrews 11, upholds those men as Heroes of the Faith. In this chapter, the principles of deception, avoidance and violent self-defense are employed. Surely, the Neo-Conservative Church in AmeriKa today does not look at Samson, who killed Philistines with the jawbone of an ass, as someone to look up to! It was said of David in 1 Samuel, which angered Saul, "Saul has slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands."

There are those in the church of today not understanding that message. We can find examples were the Apostles used deception and avoidance, but those in the church today falsely believe they would not have used violent self-defense. The question is, would they if they could have? Did they have the "tools" or the means of violent self-defense?

Acts Chapter 5 has some interesting insight here. Is not the words, "We ought to obey G_d rather than men," an act of open defiance against the state and demonstrating absolute dependence upon G_d? With goobermint conspiracy laws, you don't need to shoot someone in the head for it to be "violent self-defense."

So enraged at the open defiance of the believers in Y'shua were the Sadducees that they were about to pass judgment on the disciples and sentence them to death. The story, of course, continues with the classic advice of Gamaliel. He gave examples of those in the past, rising up against the Romish state, yet were defeated. While the Sanhedrin hated the "movement," they had to adopt the "wait and see" attitude of Gamaliel.

There is no injustice, nor sin involved in deception, avoidance, or violent self-defense. As with the Apostles, the increased persecution simply evoked increased dedication. So it goes when the Church fails NOT to teach and preach daily, Y'shua risen.

I preached that message this weekend to a person professing to be a Shaman at our local street fair. You see, we just have to balance your Yin/Yang; our male/female sides to become one with our creator. All it takes is a bunch of rocks, some herbs and a hand fill of crystals. lol!!! ;)

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[> Tamarisk, Preludium, ekklesia, ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- Sola Shimei, 18:44:06 02/11/03 Tue


Matthew 5
12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

”The Bible, in The New Testament in Hebrews 11, upholds those men as Heroes of the Faith. In this chapter, the principles of deception, avoidance and violent self-defense are employed. Surely, the Neo-Conservative Church in AmeriKa today does not look at Samson, who killed Philistines with the jawbone of an ass, as someone to look up to! It was said of David in 1 Samuel, which angered Saul, "Saul has slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands."

___________________________________________________________

1 Samuel 18:7
As they danced, they sang: "Saul has slain his thousands, and David his tens of thousands."

1 Samuel 29:5
Isn't this the David they sang about in their dances: " 'Saul has slain his thousands, and David his tens of thousands'?"

1 Samuel 18:8
Saul was very angry; this refrain galled him. "They have credited David with tens of thousands," he thought, "but me with only thousands. What more can he get but the kingdom?"


The teaching of slaying others is not really replicated in the New Testament as an example for Christ’s Church. In fact, interestingly, Saul’s jealousy of David over this became a significant factor in destroying the relationship between David and Saul. It is notable too, that the counting and the numbering of men “by the tens of thousands” as the people chanted in the streets about David, would be related to a grave sin in David’s adult life when he numbered men in a census. It was counted against David as an affront against God. For David allowed his faith to be placed in the numbers of men which were counted in his census – instead of placing his faith in the power of All Mighty God to grant him his victory and protection.


1 Samuel 21
David at Gath
10 That day David fled from Saul and went to Achish king of Gath. 11 But the servants of Achish said to him, "Isn't this David, the king of the land? Isn't he the one they sing about in their dances:

" 'Saul has slain his thousands,
and David his tens of thousands'?"

12 David took these words to heart and was very much afraid of Achish king of Gath.

In this passage, the anointing of David would not have been known to the Philistines (pagans), but his well known exploits were legion to pagans. As Christians we are admonished to be salt and light in our dealings.

On the humorous side: In the next passage of 1 Samuel 21. David used a tactic of feigning insanity to persuade Achish to allow him to leave. If we are using David as our role model for the Church era, does that mean, too, that Christians are to feign insanity as a tactical maneuver when dealing with oppressive government? (wink) Have you noticed that some are naturals at it and don’t need to be threatened by anything, or anyone in order to use the Achish Maneuver? Say, isn’t that is what they call “Pentecostalism” in today’s apostate church? Have you noticed that the ones who have best perfected the Davidic technique seem to also naturally gravitate towards Finis Dake….and ice cream! LOL!

Matthew 5:11
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Salt and Light

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven………

…….38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Remember David wanted to build the Temple for the LORD, but was not allowed to because of all the blood on his hands and the honor was given to his son, Solomon to build the Temple.

~ ~ The sobering thing about mad cow disease (not to be confused with certain churchless bedroom bishops in Moore, OK) rather, bovine spongiform encephalopathy or BSE - is it’s incubation period which is said to be as long as ten years in humans. For this reason we have not eaten beef for several years now. There is an equally fatal human ailment -- new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, which has killed some 80 Europeans since the mid-1990s, mostly in Britain. Exposure links to this disease have been noted to have taken place YEARS prior to symptomatic evidence appearing. Unfortunately BSE-contaminated cattle bone products had been exported to 70-plus countries around the world and they are used in cosmetics and scores of products that we would never think of. The New Castle disease in the commercial poultry industry has been an outbreak problem a number of times in the past with chickens in Arkansas and East coast having to have been destroyed.

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[> [> Tamarisk, Preludium, ekklesia, ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- May Belle Lean, 21:53:16 02/11/03 Tue


FDA: What about cosmetics?
FDA Cosmetics web sites: home,puffery, imports
by Judith E. Foulke

"A number of biological products in cosmetics have raised consumer concern:

... Human placenta is the nourishing lining of the womb (uterus), which is expelled after birth. When placental materials were first used as cosmetic ingredients in the 1940s, manufacturers promoted the products as providing beneficial hormonal effects such as stimulating tissue growth and removing wrinkles, even though newborn infants emerge from the womb with wrinkled skin!

The hormone content and the tissue-growth and wrinkle-removing claims classified the placenta-containing products as drugs, and FDA declared them to be ineffective and therefore misbranded.

FDA's challenge caused placenta suppliers to change marketing strategies by claiming that hormones in their placenta ingredients had been extracted and were no longer in the product. They then offered placental raw materials without medical claims--only as a source of protein.

Can you get a disease from placental cosmetic ingredients? Bailey says no. Placenta used in cosmetics is washed and processed many times to destroy any harmful bacteria or viruses. Besides that, says Bailey, the cosmetic matrix (components that bind the ingredients in products) is made from a wide variety of substances, such as alcohol and preservatives, that would present a hostile environment to any viruses or bacteria the placenta might have carried. [These treatments cannot be relied on to diminish prion infectivity if any were present initially. -- webmaster]

Amniotic liquid (from cow or ox) is the fluid that surrounds the developing fetus and protects it from physical injury. It is promoted for benefits similar to those of human placenta and has limited use in moisturizers, hair lotions, scalp treatments, and shampoos.

Collagen (from young cows) is the protein substance found in connective tissue. (Connective tissue binds together and supports organs and other body structures.) A great deal of research has been done on the different types and uses for collagen. In cosmetics, collagen has a moisturizing effect. It is not water soluble, but it holds water. FDA says there is no convincing evidence that collagen can penetrate the skin and have an effect below the surface.

Cerebrosides (from animals or plants) are a type of glycolipid produced naturally in basal epidermal cells--the deepest layer of skin. After cerebrosides are formed, they are secreted to the outside of the cells and serve as a protective coating. As new cells form in lower layers of skin, the older skin cells move closer to surface layers and start to dry out. During this process, the cerebrosides are chemically changed and form ceramides, part of a network of membranes between cells. Skin moisture and suppleness comes from this network.

The raw material for cerebrosides in cosmetics comes from cattle, oxen or swine brain cells or other nervous system tissues. (same as BSE) Alternatively, the raw material may be isolated from plant sources. Industry cosmetic scientists claim that the use of cerebrosides in skin products results in a smoother skin surface and better moisture retention, effects that translate into marketing claims such as luminosity and ever-improving hydration. FDA has not evaluated the studies on which these claims are based. "

Avoiding prohibited ingredients through FDA's Voluntary Cosmetic Registration Program:

Although cosmetic manufacturers are not required to register with FDA, companies are encouraged to register their establishments and list their products and ingredients through the agency's Voluntary Cosmetic Registration Program (VCRP)....

Imports and FDA
"If the number of FDA-regulated products coming in from foreign shores is any indication, the import business in the United States is flourishing. In the last 20 years, the volume of imported goods the agency regulates has tripled from an estimated half million shipments in 1971 to about one and a half million today."

3001.10.0050: Other Glands And Other Organs, Dried, Whether Or Not Powdered
U.S. Imports for Consumption: December 1998 and 1998 Year-to-Date
(Customs Value, in Thousands of Dollars)
(Units of Quantity: Kilograms)

<--- Dec 1998 ---
Country Quantity
====================
WORLD TOTAL . . . . .26,320
Canada . . . . . . . . . ...17,850
Denmark . . . . . . . . .10,970
Italy . . . . . . . . . . ..... 8,530
Spain . . . . . . . . . .......5,994
Switzerland . . . . . . . ....278
United Kingdom . . . . ......45
...

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[> [> [> Tamarisk, Preludium, ekklesia, ACNR, Sola, Dolly, Bethany -- Miss Llama, 07:32:09 02/12/03 Wed

..........speaking of plagues, diseases and poultry (poultry: chickens and ducks, etc. to those of you in Moore, Oklahoma believing yourselves to be "anointed".....let me guess which part is "anointed" because it certainly is not your brain.....maybe it's the part of your anatomy where you think the sun raises and sets? LOL!)

Fear spreads in China over mystery lung virus
From Oliver August in Beijing (off drudgereport.com)

CHEMISTS and stores have been swamped by people in parts of southern China fearing a mystery lung virus.
Some people were wearing surgical mask in the streets, despite doctors insisting that rumours were unnecessarily fanning public fears.

About 300 people were in hospital with pneumonia caused by the virus, one-third of them doctors, nurses and other health workers, an official of the provincial Disease Prevention and Control Centre said.

But doctors said that so far only five people had died and not the hundreds suggested by residents in Guangdong Province near Hong Kong.

“The disease is under control. It’s not as serious as the rumours said. The priority now is to figure out what caused it,” a doctor at the No 1 Hospital of the Guangzhou Medical School said. “We did not realise it was a serious epidemic, so we did not take it seriously at the beginning.”

Shoppers cleared stores of antibiotics and queued to pay inflated prices for vinegar, which many Chinese use as a disinfectant.

The panic also affected regional stock exchanges, with shares of drug companies rising, outdone only by a few vinegar-makers.

The identity of what is believed to be a virus linked to pneumonia is still not known. Leading Communist Party officials in Guangdong Province yesterday ordered an emergency team of experts to start a belated fight against the illness, which was first detected two months ago.

Governments in Hong Kong and Macau have also pleaded with residents not to panic, a likely response as the region has repeatedly been struck by deadly viruses in recent years.

Southern China is a significant source of new strains of influenza and other viruses that are often traced to the poultry industry. Bird flu in Hong Kong in 1997 killed six people and prompted the slaughter of all of its 1.4 million chickens.

Chemists and traditional Chinese herbal medicine stores reported dwindling stocks in Hong Kong as the rumours from Guangdong quickly spread. But Yeoh Engkiong, Hong Kong’s Secretary for Health and Welfare, said that there was no evidence that it was affecting the city. Neither pneumonia nor influenza cases had increased, he said. Nonetheless, television showed residents queuing for vinegar.

The Baiyunshan Pharmaceutical Corporation said that it had sent hundreds of boxes of anti-flu medication to pharmacies and hospitals since Saturday and was working around the clock to meet demand.

Anti-inflammatory medicines were also selling briskly. “They’re almost completely out of stock,” the Xinhua state news agency said. The agency discounted reports that the virus was related to anthrax.

Why flu is blamed for a multitude of ills

FLU is notoriously overdiagnosed. This could be a respiratory syncitial virus, or a rhinovirus, which has flu-like symptoms — but it is possible that the outbreak reflects a change in the nature of the prevailing flu virus (Dr Thomas Stuttaford writes).
There are three forms of flu — A, B or C — named according to the antigenic action. C produces a trivial illness, while A tends to be more serious than B. The nature of the virus shifts or drifts, that is to say that there are either major antigenic changes in the virus, or merely minor differences in its sub-type.

The world is subjected to a significant change almost every decade — just as happened in the great flu pandemic of 1918 and others in 1957, 1968 and 1977. New forms of flu often start at this time of year in one part of the world and work their way to the other side by the following winter. This delay allows manufacturers time to produce a vaccine against the latest strain.

In 1997, a variety of influenza A spread by hens caused alarm in Hong Kong. Fortunately, strenuous public health measures eliminated the avian source and the epidemic never spread. If it had, it would have been an entirely new strain and would have caused a pandemic with a high death toll.

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Spiritural Counterfeits Can Not Even Fool Fools -- just an observation, 01:00:25 02/11/03 Tue

by Phred (no login)
"What are you a Reverend of anyway?

I thought I'd bring this up here... is that a mail-order title or does some parish actually pay you to use it... Jack?"

It is interesting how the lost sinner can identify a counterfeit and wolf among the flock better than the sheep in some instances. Sad commentary.

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[> Re: Spiritural Counterfeits Can Not Even Fool Fools -- Anastasia Lupita Colindres Pérez González Barandiarán, 01:20:54 02/11/03 Tue

by Phred (no login)
"Yeah, and Jose is the spanish form of Jack
but no one calls you that, do they???"

Posted on Feb 10, 2003, 8:24 PM
from IP address 207.229.170.85

Actually, "Jack" is a pet name for "John" which in Spanish is Juan. Jack in Spanish would be Juan, me thinks. "Jose" is Spanish or Joe. Any way you slice it, Jack doesn't know jack.

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Have Jackals & Kear-Bear Gotten Touch With Their "Inner Little God" Today? -- Dolly Llama, 20:18:37 02/10/03 Mon

"You don't have a god in you, you are one."(1)

"Pray to yourself, because I'm in your self and you're in Myself. We are one Spirit, saith the Lord."(2)

When Shirley MacClaine chants over and over on national TV , "I am God, I am God!" we Born Again believers go into an uproar. Yet when those who claim to be Christians say, "I am a little god", we don't even flinch, but rather some applaud them and their supposed evangelical efforts. The opening quotes (above) come from a “Name-It & Claim-It” counterfeit teacher named Ken Copeland - who is promoted by hireling Mike Kear. Mike Kear, we recall, is the man who “ordained” Jack Howell and was the person who decided that Jack Howell is worthy to oversee other ministers in their confraternity of heretics and hirelings.

Michael Horton has rightly written, "It must cause our heavenly Father much grief that we would consider unity more important than the One in whom we are united. It must quench the Spirit to see Christians treating blasphemies, heresies, and scandalous statements as though they were no more than odd "emphases."

The simple fact is that it is not the ones that are zealous for sound doctrine and orthodoxy who are the divisive ones. It is a common tactic utilized by the wolves among the flock such as Jack Howell and those who are being exposed for their aberrant teachings. The Word-Faith teachers are the ones who are guilty of being divisive. They are fully aware that what they are teaching is relatively new. Even one of Jack Howell’s many….many….many….."many"-to-the-power-of-ten websites, and more to come on line we may be certain, (LOL!)- promotes a book addressing the relatively new “Pentecostal” introduction onto the "Christian" landscape. WOF-ers and PFAKES constantly twist words and ask us to put away our traditions and forget our creeds. Interestingly, it is they who cite RCC sources and traditions of man as their authority for their many unorthodox, un-Biblical teachings such as women in pulpits.

Look at any number of demon-jack's frequent litanies of plagiarized Dakite footnotes which supposedly are authorizing his heresies. One of their birds of a feather, and pavo absolutas, Benny Hinn, says to his audience, "Are you ready for some real revelation knowledge?" then proceeds to inform them "you are god".(3) Hinn also, after teaching his audience that God consists of nine distinct substances, (a Dakite heresy oft espoused by demon-jack) boasts "You think you're in this church to hear things you've heard for the last 50 years?".(4) Notice the similarities in teachings to Ken Copeland, the person who Mike Kear cites as having one of his favorite sites on the net. It goes directly to these people’s confusion, and to Kear’s DISCERNMENT. For those doubting Thomases who endorse hireling-Kear’s vision, Godly wisdom and discernment; remember this is the “bishop” who took a man that had never administrated a real ministry, or run his own church – yet Kear felt “lead” to place this counterfeit in a position that oversaw other ministers that government churches. A man who also fails all biblical qualifications, btw. Maybe it was a temporary senior moment for Kear.

”There are many peculiar ideas and practices in the Faith theology, but what merits it the label of heresy are the following:

1) its deistic view of God, who must dance to men's attempts to manipulate the spiritual laws of the universe;

2) its demonic view of Christ, who was filled with "the Satanic nature" and must be "born again in hell;

3) its Gnostic view of revelation, which demands denial of the physical senses and classifies Christians by their willingness to do so; and

4) its metaphysical view of salvation, which deifies man and spiritualizes the atonement, locating it in hell rather than on the cross, thereby subverting the crucial biblical belief that it is Christ's physical death and shed blood, which alone atone for sin.

All four of these heresies may be accounted for by Kenyon's syncretism of methaphysical thought with traditional biblical doctrine" ” D.R. McConnell, A Different Gospel

Bishop Serpent Egg: “I am the Bishop of a Pentecostal fellowship known as Pentecostal Faith Assemblies, “

Inc.PFAI Recommended Reading

The Believer's Authority by Kenneth E. Hagin
Something every believer needs to know is their authority in Christ Jesus.

The Wonderful Name of Jesus by E.W. Kenyon (Kenyon's Gospel Publishing)
This book along with dozen of others by Brother Kenyon will build your faith and teach you how to overcome in life!

God's Plan For Man by Finis Jennings Dake (Dake Publishing)
If I had the choice of receiving ministry from either a man who had spent two years in seminary or a man who had spent two years honestly studying this systematic theology, there is no question whom I would choose! This is comprehensive and without compromise! 1,000 pages of Holy Ghost anointed pentecostal theology from a teacher who lived it. (Also recommended are Dake's other books: Heavenly Hosts; Revelation Expounded; The Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ; Another Time...Another Place...Another Man; and Bible Truths Unmasked)

The perceptive man can easily see that the problem here is a confusion about what it means to be made in the image of God. The faith teachers claim that being made in the image of God is synonymous to having the nature of God.

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[> Have Jackals & Kear-Bear Gotten Touch With Their "Inner Little God" Today? -- notes, 20:22:28 02/10/03 Mon

1. Kenneth Copeland, "The Force Of Love" tape # 02-0028 (promoted by Mike Kear)

2. Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory", Feb. 1987, p.9 (Promoted By Kear)

3. Benny Hinn, "Our Position In Christ", tape # AO31190-1

4. Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90

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Account Of A Christian Who Was Demonized By Being "Slain In The Spirit" -- Exposing Counterfeit WOF-ers, 17:19:36 02/09/03 Sun

Bishop Beezle-Bubba: "..... I can honestly say that I have not prayed any "wiccan" prayers (in 17 years). It is just like the devil to try to remind people of their past!"

FROM FLAPPIN JACK'S PUBLIC DOMAIN TESTIMONY WHICH HE HAS FORCED ON OTHERS AND POSTED ALL OVER CYBER-SPACE.....

BLACK JACK SAYS ABOUT HIMSELF: "I became interested in the Wicca religion and was initiated into the Alexandrian tradition by its founder, Alex Sanders himself after accepting his invitation to come to England on leave. I also studied the Celtic, Seax, Gardenarian, and Ecclectic traditions of Wicca. "

He is so insecure that he feels the need to actuslly brag about WHO and what he studied as an admitted wiccan anti-christ. Doesn't appear as though he has really left his attachments to it in the past, does it? You are correct Jack.

Those demons still rule your roost, demon jack. The god that tells you Kenneth Copeland and Finis Dake are men of God, is the lord of the air, the god of this world, Satan.

Rt. Rev. FOWLER, Inc.'s hotline is, and always has been to demons and not the God of the Bible.

___________________________________________________________

THIS REMIND YOU OF ANYONE?..........

Account Of A Christian Who Was Demonized
By Being "Slain In The Spirit"
Kurt Koch, Occult ABC, "Charismatic Movements" and "Demon Possession", 1978, pgs. 33-34, 50-52


___________________________________________________________

Mark (not his name) was a Christian in a church that he thought was formal and dead. He went to a Pentacostal church, where hands were laid on him, and he was what they called "slain in the spirit". He was lying on the floor in a trance. When he came out of it, he was praising Jesus in a loud voice, and he continued praising Jesus.

While attending this Pentacostal church, Mark also received a gift of tongues. The name of the spirit of the tongue was "Domenigaio." Here are some of the notes taken when this demon was cast out in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"Domenigaio, how many associates are with you in Mark?"

"I am alone."

"When did you enter him?"

"When he was slain in the spirit."

"Who sent you?"

"The devil, from the pit."

"Do you acknowledge our authority over you in Christ Jesus our Lord?"

"I do."

"What is your commission from Satan?"

"To deceive."

"How?"

"In his love for the Lord Jesus; ruin his faith; have him follow Satan."

"You were posing as the Holy Spirit, weren't you?"

"Yes."

Mark denounces this demon in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and he is cast out into the pit in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The name "Jesus" keeps coming into Mark's mind, so we command in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that, if there is a demon in him named "Jesus", he come forward and give his name.

Answer, "Jesus."

"What Jesus?"

"Jesus of the devil."

"What is your work, what did Satan commission you to do?"

"To fool him; to steal the glory from God."

"When did you enter him?"

"When he was slain in the spirit."

This demon had to acknowledge his defeat by our Lord Jesus Christ, through the blood of the cross, and was cast out and into the pit, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

We see here again that demons sometimes claim to be Jesus. Further, it here becomes evident that the so-called "baptism of the Spirit" in the charismatic movement is usually an opportunity for demons to enter.

Experiences with the so-called charismatic movement teach us to pray more than ever for the gift of discerning of spirits. These experiences also warn us to be led, in faith and obedience by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit, into all truth.

___________________________________________________________

One question is hotly displuted among Christians. This is the question whether or not a Christian can be possessed. Many years of experience lead me to the conclusion that those who have no experience of dealing with the possessed say "no". Those, who have counseled many possessd ones, know that even believers can be controlled or ruled by demons. These facts do not follow anyone's preconceived ideas. Our ideas must be formed, rather, on the basis of the facts.

I have had many discussions on this subject, particularly in America. I am therefore all the more thankful for the men who confirm my own experience. Among these are Dr. Edman, former president of Wheaton College, Professor Unger, already mentioned, the psychiatrist Dr. Jackson, of Milwaukee, who is a doctor both of medicine and of theology, the psychiatrist, Dr. Reed, and others. When I lectured in various countries, there were other men in conversations who declared they had counseled more demon-possessed believers than unbelievers. I must also mention Pastor G. Birch. In a letter of September 21, 1973, he wrote: "My wife and I have experience in Borneo of casting out demons in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. But here at home (Canada), we have seen 120 people delivered from demon possession in eighteen months. All these people were Christians." My friend Pastor Birch is not an extremist. You will find his name mentioned again in the chapter on "Speaking In Tongues".

My most detailed account of a case of possession is to be found in my book, "Unter der Fürung Jesu", beginning on page 250. Dr. Lechler, an experienced psychiatrist who, like me, recognized the fact of demon possession, described this account as the best-established example of pessession in modern times.

In England I have also found a few psychiatrists who share my conviction. Several years ago I was invited by Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones to address some psychiatrists at Westminster Gate on the subject of pessession. In the discussion, one psychiatrist came up with the usual argument, that what the Bible describes as possession would today be regarded as mental illness. I did not have to try and correct his view. Two of the other psychiatrists contradicted him. One of them said, "I have had seven cases of possession in my practice." The other said, "And I had eleven cases of possession." This last-mentioned psychiatrist became a friend of mine. We held a seminar together for 200 Anglican clergy. During the week, this fellow believer told me: "Your book, "Christian Counseling and Occultism" confronted me with the problem of possession. I have now, for several years, observed typical cases which cannot be classified in the normal language of psychiatry. It was there that I discovered the truth of the thesis you maintain."

If there were no demons, Christ could not have disarmed ("spoiled", King James Version) them (Collossians 2:15). If believers can never be misused by Satan as his mouthpeice, Jesus would not have had to say to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan, Thou art an offence to me" (Matthew 16:23).

We know of the enemy's power. We know how easily believers are tempted, but we know still more of the victory of Jesus Christ. The triumphal cry of the apostle makes hell shudder: "Thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!"


© Kurt Koch 1978, Occult ABC, "Charismatic Movements" and "Demon Possession", 1978, pgs. 33-34, 50-52

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Just for Catholics - Q&A -- Copyright Dr Joe Mizzi 2002, 17:02:50 02/09/03 Sun

Just for Catholics - Q&A

Are we co-redeemers?

Question I can assure you that we Catholics believe in His completed work and suffering at Calvary’s cross. However, as the Bride of Christ, His Body, our sufferings are so united with Christ's that we can offer them in union with His redemptive work for the salvation of souls (Colossians 1:24). The Lord Jesus Christ uses the suffering of his people to draw souls to salvation to be found only through Christ. That is what redemptive suffering is all about.

Answer There is great value in the Christian’s work and suffering in Christ. For one thing, as you said, the Lord Jesus brings souls into His kingdom, and builds them up in grace, through the painstaking work of His ministers and His people. Sadly, the idea of “redemptive suffering” as used in Catholic theology, is not limited to this sense. The Catholic Church teaches that the works and sufferings of believers are united with that of Christ to merit our redemption (see Catechism paragraphs 618, 1476, 1477). That idea is wrong.

We must make a very clear distinction between the finished work of Christ on the cross for our redemption, and His work in and through us for the edification of the church.

Christ redeemed His people, that is, paid the ransom for their liberation and forgiveness, by His death on the cross. He said, “I give my life as a ransom for many,” and believers say, “we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins,” and He “hast redeemed us to God by thy blood,” and again, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” “In Christ we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins” (Colossians 1:14).

So redemption has been obtained, once for all, by the death of Christ on the cross. His preaching or His miracles did not achieve redemption. Neither is Christ now obtaining redemption by working in or through His people. To be sure, the Lord is intimately involved in the lives of His children, and being spiritually united with them, their afflictions are also His. Moreover, there is value in the Christian suffering - for mortification of sin, the strengthening of faith and character, and which the Lord would recompense in heaven. Yet nowhere does the Scripture teach that Christians participate with Christ in His sacrifice, suffering and death to achieve redemption. His blood has already obtained that.

So, briefly,

By His death, Christ has already obtained redemption
The purpose of the suffering of Christians is not redemptive.
This principle is illustrated by Colossians 1:24: “Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church”

This verse is often misused by Catholics apologists as evidence that we must co-operate by our suffering with Christ to accomplish redemption. Let’s see if this is the case or not.

It is clear that there is a sense in which the afflictions of Christ for His church are incomplete. Christ still suffers for His church. How? He is so united with His people that the suffering of the members of His body are in a very real sense His own! Thus the sufferings of the apostle Paul for the sake of the church are the afflictions of Christ.

The apostle Paul was suffering for the sake and benefit of the Christians in Colosse. We must ask this important question: What was the purpose of his suffering? Was Paul’s suffering added to the merits of the death of Christ to achieve redemption, the forgiveness of sins? Or did Paul’s suffering benefit the Christians in Colosse in some other way? The answer is found in the context.

First, the apostle writes about the redemptive work of Christ (Colossian 1:19-23). He assures the believers in Colosse that reconciliation and peace with God were achieved “through the blood of His cross” and “in the body of His flesh through death.” Reconciliation was not achieved through the work and suffering of Christ's ministers. Neither was reconciliation brought about by the suffering of His mystical body, the church, but "in the body of His flesh," that is, by the sacrifice of His human physical body and the shedding of His blood. Paul does not instruct Christians to add something to the work of Christ to be reconciled with God. Rather, the apostle assures the believers that they are already at peace with Him on account of His blood.

After speaking about the sacrifice of Christ, the apostle Paul changes subject and speaks about his personal role (Colossians 1:23 – 2:5). He presents himself as a minister of the Gospel. His mission was to preach and teach to make known the good news of Christ to everyone. And to do so, the apostle Paul suffered much hardship of every sort. In this sense he was suffering for the sake of Christians for the purpose of teaching and edifying the church. The fanciful idea that he was contributing something to the redemptive work of Christ would not even cross his mind. The thought was anathema to him! “Was Paul crucified for you?” (1 Corinthians 1:13). No, of course not! Jesus was crucified for us, and what He achieved for us by His cross (reconciliation, peace with God and redemption) could not be attributed to Paul, or any other creature.

Believers are redeemed by the blood of Christ. The work and sufferings of believers produces much fruit for the glory of God, but not their redemption. Christ is the Redeemer. Christians are the redeemed, not co-redeemers!

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to the hellbound minister of darkness named jackals howell -- Forum Administrator, 08:43:16 02/05/03 Wed

To: jackals howell the apostate deceiver and purveyor of false doctrines spurned by your father Satan;

You need not contact me with your demonic attempts to deceive again, unless the demons spur you on while in control of your soul as we know you to be under their control----in that case, at least try to be more creative with something of entertainment value, or else find your pitiful correspondences immediately in the trash.


Colossians 1

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Redeemed in Christ,

Forum Administrator

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[> Re: to the hellbound minister of darkness named jackals howell -- Forum Administrator, 09:54:36 02/05/03 Wed

To: jackals howell the apostate deceiver and purveyor
of false doctrines spurned by your father Satan;

Keep reading at this page so you will hear the truth instead of following the tickling of your ears by the false teachers and false prophets of Satan you love so dearly.

Colossians 1

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn
over all creation. 16For by Him all things were
created that are in heaven and that are on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
principalities or powers. All things were created
through Him and for Him.

Redeemed in Christ,

Forum Administrator

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[> [> to the hellbound minister of darkness named jackals howell -- Forum Administrator, 12:02:34 02/05/03 Wed

To: jackals howell the apostate deceiver and purveyor
of false doctrines spurned by your father Satan;

Furthermore, if you wish to continue with your pettiness and constant weeping, then I shall reply with the words of the Lord Christ Jesus---"Let the dead, weep for the dead!"
Colossians 1

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn
over all creation. 16For by Him all things were
created that are in heaven and that are on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
principalities or powers. All things were created
through Him and for Him.

Redeemed in Christ,

Forum Administrator

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[> [> [> the hellbound minister of darkness brings the way of truth into disrepute -- Dolly Llama, 18:23:47 02/05/03 Wed

Ezekiel 34
2 "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to those shepherds, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Woe, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flock?
8 "As I live," declares the Lord GOD, "surely because My flock has become a prey, My flock has even become food for all the beasts of the field for lack of a shepherd, and My shepherds did not search for My flock, but rather the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock;
10 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will demand My sheep from them and make them cease from feeding sheep. So the shepherds will not feed themselves anymore, but I will deliver My flock from their mouth, so that they will not be food for them."'"

QUESTION FOLKS: WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?????

Serpent Egg hisses: ”A few days ago, I took the initiative and emailed Tamarisk, in the spirit of Christian love. ”- Rev. Jack Howell on Jan 3, 2003, 4:30 PM

•" Tamarisk Caught In Another Error - Rev. Jack Howell on Jan 2, 2003, 4:29 PM

• "More Ranting From Tamarisk - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 31, 2002, 9:16 PM

• "A New Rant From "Tamarisk" - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 30, 2002, 8:09 PM

• "Tamarisk The False Teacher, Rants Again - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 24, 2002, 5:55 AM

• "Another Depraved Rant - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 22, 2002, 12:09 PM

• "Another Rant From The Warped Thinking of Tamarisk - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 21, 2002, 4:06 AM

• "After Days of Silence, Tamarisk Speaks!

Hey! Lookie, TAMARISK! Jackie DOES "love" you, afterall.

Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 20, 2002, 4:00 AM
(4:00AM in the morning hours, Yet. You had really 'em tossin & a turnin in his mammaz bedroom! Lucky boy. Oh-La-La!)

"They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you,...." 2 Peter 2


So much for Serpent Egg's “Christian Love” in action. Hum, folks?

Jude 1
12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; -NASB

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[> [> [> To the hellbound minister of darkness named jackals howell -- Sola Scriptura, 22:38:27 02/05/03 Wed

>To: jackals howell the apostate deceiver and purveyor
>of false doctrines spurned by your father Satan;
>
>Furthermore, if you wish to continue with your
>pettiness and constant weeping, then I shall reply
>with the words of the Lord Christ Jesus---"Let the
>dead, weep for the dead!"
>Colossians 1

Philippians 1
15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill.

Titus 1
10For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. 11They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain. 12Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons." 13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth.

2 Peter 3
16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

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[> [> Re: to the hellbound minister of darkness named jackals howell -- L'Chaim!, 23:41:01 02/05/03 Wed

>To: jackals howell the apostate deceiver and purveyor
>of false doctrines spurned by your father Satan;
>
>Keep reading at this page so you will hear the truth
>instead of following the tickling of your ears by the
>false teachers and false prophets of Satan you love so
>dearly.

Regarding the Dakites;

Warning Against False Teachers

1 Timothy 1
3As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith. 5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

.........his meaningless talk is silenced today. From HHunters this:
http://www.boards.revealedtruthmin.org/



"Network54: This site's forum provider
Network54 is currently unavailable. We apologize for any inconvenience.
We are currently experiencing problems at our hosting facility (air conditioning) and are working to restore service as soon as possible.

The only one who's "inconvenienced" is Satan who can't spew his deceitful message on demon-jack's site!


2 Timothy 2
17"Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus", ......and Finis Dake, Joseph Smith, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyers........

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[> To the hellbound minister of darkness named jackals howell -- Annoy A. Bishop, 22:27:12 02/06/03 Thu

This is telling.

From: http://pub54.ezboard.com/fdakecommunityfrm1

” Welcome to the Dake Bible Discussion Board

Topic Replies Views Last Comment Started By
Welcome to the Dake Bible Discussion Board

"Might Be Offline For The Next Several Days 0 (replies!) 18 2/2/03 8:29:00 pm RevJack ………………”
0 REPLIES! Not a single comment. No one cared! LOL!

……….the only post on the whole page without a comment or reply. It had the fewest hits and persons to read it, as well. Also, the only one on the entire page that talks exclusively about himself.

Dat figgers. Prolly jus jealous of his ‘nointing.

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[> [> To the Hellbound Cut & Paste Meister of The Darkness - LOOK! No One Responds to Him -- demon jack's cut & paste machine & demons are cranking him, 23:11:34 02/07/03 Fri

Pitiful!
http://www.boards.revealedtruthmin.org/ - Never an original thought from juju jack. Just STOLEN articles from others. No one even reads his garbage.

Subject Started T U Replies Views Last Post T U
Some Say Methodist Bishop Unlikely to Face Trial for Heresy Started By revjackhowell
00:54:34 Sat Feb 8 2003 0 replies 1 Last Post By revjackhowell at
00:54:34 Sat Feb 8 2003
Secret Directive Targets Underground Church Leaders in China Started By revjackhowell
00:33:55 Fri Feb 7 2003 0 replies 5 Last Post By revjackhowell at
00:33:55 Fri Feb 7 2003
As Long as Music is About Jesus, Baptist Leader Gets Excited Started By revjackhowell
23:42:47 Sun Feb 2 2003 0 replies 5 Last Post By revjackhowell at
23:42:47 Sun Feb 2 2003
Crystal-Clear Decision: Ten Commandments Part of American History Started By revjackhowell
00:34:27 Fri Jan 31 2003 0 replies 6 Last Post By revjackhowell at
00:34:27 Fri Jan 31 2003
Vietnam Exhibits 'New Low' in Christian Persecution Started By revjackhowell
10:40:11 Wed Jan 29 2003 0 replies 2 Last Post By revjackhowell at
10:40:11 Wed Jan 29 2003
Zoning Ordinance Stifles Church's Expansion Plans Started By revjackhowell
10:34:38 Tue Jan 28 2003 0 replies 3 Last Post By revjackhowell at
10:34:38 Tue Jan 28 2003
Domestic Terrorist Invited to Speak at Duke University Started By revjackhowell
16:18:08 Sat Jan 25 2003 0 replies 2 Last Post By revjackhowell at
16:18:08 Sat Jan 25 2003
Black Pastor Compares Abortion to Slavery Started By revjackhowell
00:32:29 Sat Jan 25 2003 0 replies 4 Last Post By revjackhowell at
00:32:29 Sat Jan 25 2003
Pro-Abortion Agenda Bolstered by Teachers' Union Dues Started By revjackhowell
20:22:59 Thu Jan 23 2003 0 replies 2 Last Post By revjackhowell at
20:22:59 Thu Jan 23 2003
School District Agrees 'Neutrality' is Paramount in Policy Started By revjackhowell
23:12:23 Tue Jan 21 2003 0 replies 1 Last Post By revjackhowell at
23:12:23 Tue Jan 21 2003
Approaching the Bench, the Attorney for the Unborn Child ... Started By revjackhowell
23:22:21 Mon Jan 20 2003 0 replies 2 Last Post By revjackhowell at
23:22:21 Mon Jan 20 2003
State Suspected in Shutdown of Website for California Pro-Family Group Started By revjackhowell
00:29:38 Sat Jan 18 2003 0 replies 2 Last Post By revjackhowell at
00:29:38 Sat Jan 18 2003
City's 'Second-Class Treatment' of Church Settled Through Lawsuit Started By revjackhowell
22:19:39 Wed Jan 15 2003 0 replies 2 Last Post By revjackhowell at
22:19:39 Wed Jan 15 2003
Memory Transfer Part of Raelians' Design for Immortality Started By revjackhowell
22:17:44 Wed Jan 15 2003 0 replies 1 Last Post By revjackhowell at
22:17:44 Wed Jan 15 2003
No Student Clubs, No Lawsuits ... No Problem Started By revjackhowell
00:03:22 Wed Jan 15 2003 0 replies 2 Last Post By revjackhowell at
00:03:22 Wed Jan 15 2003
Theologians Differ on the 'All' for Whom Christ Died Started By revjackhowell
23:42:57 Mon Jan 13 2003 0 replies 6 Last Post By revjackhowell at
23:42:57 Mon Jan 13 2003
Two Florida Statutes Canned Five Years After Arrests Near Disney World Started By revjackhowell
16:28:11 Sat Jan 11 2003 0 replies 2 Last Post By revjackhowell at
16:28:11 Sat Jan 11 2003
Religion Major in Kentucky Sees Scholarship Yanked, Sues State Started By revjackhowell
23:47:40 Wed Jan 8 2003 0 replies 2 Last Post By revjackhowell at
23:47:40 Wed Jan 8 2003
Federal Appointment of Christian Doctor Applauded Started By revjackhowell
23:18:54 Tue Jan 7 2003 0 replies 3 Last Post By revjackhowell at
23:18:54 Tue Jan 7 2003
Koran Okays Murder, Enslavement, Wife-Beating Started By revjackhowell
01:22:37 Tue Jan 7 2003 0 replies 3 Last Post By revjackhowell at
01:22:37 Tue Jan 7 2003

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Sola Acknowledges and Corrects a Mistake She Made Regarding Nucc’s New Name -- Sola Scriptura, 00:23:22 01/29/03 Wed

Sola Publicly Corrects A Mis-Statement She Made About Nucc’s New Handle – Who Formally Called Himself WOG ( for “Word of God”)

Deuteronomy 6
13 Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.

Nucckle-Head, with his transparent spirit, took for himself the highly offensive handle of “Word of God” for which the abbreviated acronym “WOG” was employed.

Luke 11
28He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

That was likely a favorite passage of his and those who know him would not dount that he personalized it. However, it is precisely for that passage and many, many hundred others such as the passage that follows, that his handle was such an affront before a Holy Father and those who reverence His Name as holy:

Hebrews 4
12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

It is inconceivable that any person confessing to be a Bible-believing follower of Christ claiming vastly superior knowledge to others, would have the arrogance (and ignorance!) to assume a name for themselves such as Word of God. It just is not done in Biblically steeped Christian circles. Is it any wonder that a person so blinded by their pride and arrogance would not understand the meaning of the Tetragramation’s transliteration in English, indeed the veryessence of the handle he has used for years!!?

Remember, folks, lest we seem harsh, this is a man who frequently chided and demeaned others - demanding that they give an accounting to him of “how long” they have been Christians, and equated that time frame as either bragging rights, or license to insult and demean others’ walk. He never missed the opportunity to dismiss others as not being as Biblically fluent as he. He prides himself on the number of years he purportedly has been a “Christian” and gives the very distinct impression that he believes he is superior to all others. But superior in who’s eyes?

Consider for instance, the contrast in humility and reverence between Abram, and Nucckle-Head who affects the name of God:

Genesis 17
3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him,……

One man drops to the ground with his face to the dirt in awe and reverence, another in his debauchery had the gall to affect the Name of the Most High!

Another couple of examples:

Exodus 20
18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die."
20 Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning."

Exodus 34

The Radiant Face of Moses
29 When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the Testimony in his hands, he was not aware that his face was radiant because he had spoken with the LORD . 30 When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, his face was radiant, and they were afraid to come near him. 31 But Moses called to them; so Aaron and all the leaders of the community came back to him, and he spoke to them. 32 Afterward all the Israelites came near him, and he gave them all the commands the LORD had given him on Mount Sinai.

33 When Moses finished speaking to them, he put a veil over his face. 34 But whenever he entered the LORD's presence to speak with him, he removed the veil until he came out. And when he came out and told the Israelites what he had been commanded, 35 they saw that his face was radiant. Then Moses would put the veil back over his face until he went in to speak with the LORD .


Well I admit I mis-spoke in the thread below. I has mistakenly stated that Nucckle-Head appeared to have had his pride pierced, and was convicted of the Spirit to abandon his blasphemous handle for the sake of respect due The Most High. It appears that I gave Nucckle-Head far more credit for spiritual maturity and growth than was due him. According to his counterfeit friend, the bedroom bishop, I was incorrect. Here is the reason GOG switched to Nucckle-Head:

Genuine Christians or Cultic Counterfeits?
January 19 2003 at 7:10 AM
Rev. Jack Howell
from IP address 68.12.221.220

“Notice how these spiritual counterfeits mock and ridicule his childhood nickname (Nucc) which he decided to use in place of the actual acronym he was using (WOG) because British Christians and nonchristians expressed concern about its use since over there, it (Wog) is a slang term of derision, whereas, he used it to stand for (Word Of God).”

WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT FROM THE HORSE’S - - - - - bedroom - - -
The Christians, - friends and foe alike who have counseled Nucckle-head over the years – in kind, AND from disgust – that have pleaded with him to consider the affront his name was presenting before a righteous God, and to the believing community - to not call himself “Word of God” as it was blasphemous and offensive – were handily IGNORED. Time and time again he declined to give heed to believers petitioning him. SO WHY DID HE CHANGE HIS NAME????

It was pagans who appealed to Nucc’s PRIDE that forced him to re-consider changing his long held handle. He didn’t drop it to please God, like Abram. No, NUCCKLE-HEAD is to arrogant for that! He changed his name because ” nonchristians expressed concern about its use since over there, it (Wog) is a slang term of derision, whereas, he used it to stand for (Word Of God).”

"NUCCKLE-HEAD" suits him well.

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[> PFAKE Churchless "Bishops" - clouds without rain, trees, without fruit, and uprooted–twice dead. -- Paul, 21:10:38 02/07/03 Fri

Like clouds and wind without rain Jangler-Jackie is a man who boasts of gifts he does not have,.......and "wisdom" not available within him to give.

Jude 1:12
These men are blemishes at your love feasts,
eating with you without the slightest qualm–shepherds who feed only themselves.
They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted–twice dead.

AMEN.

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"Ordained" one time - A "Witch" the next! I will expose your nakedness Demon-Jack -- Annoy A. Bishop, 20:47:50 02/07/03 Fri

Re: Forum Administrator

Unbelievable!
February 7 2003 at 6:10 PM
Rev. Jack Howell (Premier Login RevJack2002)
Forum Owner
from IP address 68.12.221.80
As anyone can see, the style of posting and language used is identical to a certain poster on that board who has denied ownership of that "forum." As can be seen too, that person has no desire to be honest or to allow honesty to prevail on that forum. It is truly sad that this individual so blindly quotes from God's Word and has no idea what it means. They are a clear example of "calling good evil, and evil good" (Isaiah 5:20).---
Rev. Jack Howell”

Another Catholic, NOT Roman said ”Ol' Smilin' Jack's hotline to God has confirmed to Jack that Kenneth Copeland is a true man of God, but Jack being deceived by lying spirits and lacking spiritual discernment, doesn't know that the demon posing as God at the other end of his "hotline" is probably one of the same demons Jack cavorted with when Jack was a wiccan.

It seems Jack never left witchcraft, he just changed suits into a Word of Faith witchcraft suit instead of a wiccan suit. There is no difference in the eyes of God between the two.”

..........clap your hand over your mouth! Todus Bulbus youz be a verrrry con-fused bedroom bishop.

Sola said: ”On Flappin' Jack's Website he states that the book by heretic Kenneth Hagan is highly recommended reading:


"The Believer's Authority by Kenneth E. Hagin "Something every believer needs to know is their authority in Christ Jesus. "

_____________________________________________________________

LETTUCE look at some of Hagan's own quotes:

"We (the church) are Christ." (Kenneth Hagin, As Christ is -- So are we, Tape #44H06)

Think about that for a minute. Anyone saying; "We are Christ." Perhaps this is some insight into the false piousness and the demanding of unmerited respect Jack commands of all of society with the appellation "REVEREND".

"Christ's physical death on the cross was not enough to save us." (Kenneth Hagin, How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01)

"Jesus tasted spiritual death." (Kenneth Hagin, How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01)

"The Christian "is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth.""(Kenneth Hagin, "The Incarnation," THE WORD OF FAITH (Dec. 1980), 14.)

FROM THE ADMINISTRATION: "Because your spirit has been tested, as per 1 John 4:1, and that testing has uncovered that you are not a committed believer in the historic Christian faith, but have been uncovered as a false prophet who has presumed to speak a word coming from the Lord which fully endorsed the false prophet Kenneth Copeland, which was not a word from the Lord thus was a false word given as if it were from the Lord, but indeed came from another source, making YOU, Flap Jack, a false prophet as per Deuteronomy 18:20(But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.')

As a false prophet, you, Flap Jack, are thereby eliminated from being a "committed believer in the historic Christian faith" but are indeed a wolf in sheep's clothing."

This is why I maintain that Flappin' Jack is a tare who's wicked doctrine is of demons and we will continue to EXPOSE. I will expose your nakedness Jack---!!!!! smile for the camera.”

After he was exposed as a counterfeit of the WOF cult, his demons start cranking him into the abusive manipulative tactics he was likely raised with and has perfected over his adult life. Not working demon jack.

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[> "Ordained" one time - A "Witch" the next! Just Another WOF Occultist In New Packaging -- Miss Llama, 20:54:04 02/07/03 Fri

From one radical extreme of faith to another in a matter of months.

Now he is guided by serpent spirits of the WOF movement and it’s occultist leaders.

So who is surprised?????

That is because: he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes.

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Sum Cheese Wit Dat Whine, Satanist, Stevie? -- Cry Me a River, 18:00:40 02/07/03 Fri


http://www.voy.com/59530/

Subject: What's the Deal???

Author: Stephen James
Date Posted: 23:59:09 01/28/03 Tue

Has anyone else been having problems posting at R1? I keep getting the "message not allowed" screen for the last 3 days. I figure I couldn't have been banned because the Mods always seemed to have the courtesy to send an email explaining why a post was deleted, so I would think they would have the decency to tell me if I am being banned and the reason why.

Peace to you all.........
_________________________________________________________

Subject: Not allowed

Author:Jeanie
Date Posted: 12:29:26 01/29/03 Wed
I had that on Tuesday. So I posted here.

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Bishop Beezle-Bubba's Apostate HH Board Bite Der Wienerschnitzel - Big Time! YA! -- Annoya Bishop, 11:54:59 02/06/03 Thu

http://www.boards.revealedtruthmin.org/

"The page cannot be displayed
The page you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your browser settings.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please try the following:

Click the Refresh button, or try again later.

If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly.

To check your connection settings, click the Tools menu, and then click Internet Options. On the Connections tab, click Settings. The settings should match those provided by your local area network (LAN) administrator or Internet service provider (ISP).
If your Network Administrator has enabled it, Microsoft Windows can examine your network and automatically discover network connection settings.
If you would like Windows to try and discover them,
click Detect Network Settings
Some sites require 128-bit connection security. Click the Help menu and then click About Internet Explorer to determine what strength security you have installed.
If you are trying to reach a secure site, make sure your Security settings can support it. Click the Tools menu, and then click Internet Options. On the Advanced tab, scroll to the Security section and check settings for SSL 2.0, SSL 3.0, TLS 1.0, PCT 1.0.
Click the Back button to try another link.

hardy-har-har, pass the pop corn

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[> Bishop Beezle-Bubba's Apostate HH Board Bite Der Wienerschnitzel - Big Time! YA! -- TO DEMON JACK THE DECEIVER - REPENT!, 16:31:57 02/06/03 Thu

" Click the Back button to try another link. "

Someday your life will run out of back buttons, jackals. DEMON JACK THE DECEIVER - REPENT!!

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Moore Examples of a PFAKE's Apostate Problems -- ekklesia, 07:51:00 12/31/02 Tue


POSTED BY: revjackhowell
Mar 20 2002
SUBJECT: Dake's Annotated Reference Bible
"In my opinion, the Dake Annotated Reference Bible is the world's finest! To order this outstanding study Bible at reduced rates, click on the link below:"
______________________________________________________
______________________________________________________

NOTICE, As has been pointed out repeatedly and as recently as the past week, this is also one of literally hundreds of examples that can be provided in the last year alone, of the Rt. Rev. Fowler’s attempting to use illegal plagiarisms where he just happens to forget to credit the rightful heretic real author with their Federally protected work product and Jangler slimly tries to take credit himself for other’s authorship. This is important to repeat due to the fact that Jangler seems so pre occupied with the same trait in other national figures, yet it is a daily way of life for Rt. Rev. Fowler to steal, lie, trick and fool. When called on this; one of his machinations is to cite it as a small “oversight,” or another well worn stratagem is to fob it off as just an isolated incident, or another device that has caused work for his honest challengers has been for the Vain Jangler to state categorically that he had already cited the authorship previously. Never providing it, of course. The last has been proven by others every time to be a bold faced mis-representation of the facts. In other words Jack’s spirit allows him the total liberty to lie and attempt to deceive others in the flock with impunity.

This depraved methodology was never so repugnant as when Rev. Fowler began one such stolen cut and paste with this statement: ”AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE; The 95 Things I Have Against The Roman Catholic Church…….” THEN FOWLER proceeded to cut and paste the entire 95 theses, which coincidently in 1517 when Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door of Castle Church in Wittenberg and they just happened to be ….shudder….the very SAME 95 theses, verbatim that Jackals claimed as HIS! – Talk about unmitigated Chutzpah!

___________________________________________________

Author: Athanasius
Date Posted: 08:05:13 08/06/02 Tue

"The following is an exerpt from an article written by a "Rev. Jack Howell" found at:

http://bb.bbboy.net/revealedtruthministries-viewthread?forum=3&thread=14"

21:59:04 Sat
Mar 23 2002
68.12.221.220

Reply 89 Proofs of The Trinity
Eighty-nine Proofs of A Divine Trinity
(THIS IS A DIRECT THEFT FRON FINIS DAKE! LOOK AT THE WORDS; "What WE mean here......" etc)

"What we mean by Divine Trinity is that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead,
The doctrine of the Trinity can be clearly seen, being understood by the visible things that are made, even to His eternal power and Godhead (Romans 1:20). What on earth was created in the image and likeness of God? Man (Genesis 1:26-28). Do God's image and likeness consist only of moral and spiritual powers? If so, it can be concluded that man is only a moral and spiritual being. Is God bodiless? If so, we can conclude that man is also bodiless.
Is God only one being made up of several persons or beings in the one being? If so, we can conclude that man is one person or being made up of many. Does God need a flesh body in order to have any kind of body? No! There are such things as spirit and heavenly bodies. See 1 Cor. 15:35-38. From this passage we learn that all things in creation?grain, fish, birds, beasts, man, angels, and even the planets?have bodies, sizes, shapes, and forms.
The Bible declares that God has a body, shape, image, likeness, physical parts, a personal soul and spirit, and all other things that constitute a being or a person with a body, soul, and spirit (see note, §John 4:24; note, §John 5:37; The Doctrine of Man.
Angels, cherubim, seraphim, and all other spirit beings have spirit bodies and personal souls and spirits. They have been seen with the natural eyes of men over 100 times in Scripture (see Appearances of Angels to Men). If all other spirit beings have spirit bodies, could not the members of the Trinity also have spirit bodies? The 284 passages on spirits in Scripture prove that spirit bodies are just as real and capable of operation in the material worlds as are flesh bodies. There is no such thing as a world of creations made up of invisible substance. The so-called spirit world must be understood simply as spirit beings inhabiting material worlds created by God. Heaven itself is a material planet (Genesis 1:1; Hebrews 11:10-16), having cities, mansions, furniture, inhabitants, living conditions, etc. See Heaven.
God has been seen physically by human eyes many times (Genesis 18:1-33; Genesis 19:24; Genesis 32:24-30; Exodus 24:11; Exodus 33:11-33; Joshua 5:13-15; Judges 6:11-23; Judges 13:3-25; 1 Chron. 21:16-17; Job 42:5; Isaiah 6; Ezekiel 1:26-28; Ezekiel 10:1,20; Ezekiel 40:3; Daniel 7:9-14; Daniel 10:5-10; Acts 7:56-59; Rev. 4:2-5; Rev. 5:1,5-7,11-14; Rev. 6:16; Rev. 7:9-17; Rev. 19:4; Rev. 21:3-5; Rev. 22:4).
In over 20,000 references about God in Scripture we get to know all we need to know about the subject. If we will take the Bible literally as to what it says about Him, as we do with other things the subject will be very clear; but if we make God a mystery, ignoring the plain statements of Scripture about Him, and refusing to believe the many descriptions of God given by those who have seen one, two, and three separate persons called "God," then we ill remain in ignorance.
It is true there are a few figurative statements about God in Scripture, as there are about man and other things, but shall we do away with the reality of man and these other things because of a few figures of speech? Let us make man mere salt and lights (Matthew 5:13-14), if we are going to do away with God because of a few figures of speech."


Athanasius states "The Rev. Jack Howell is part of the ever growing apostate church of pentecostals who have been deceived by Finis J. Dake(Dake's Connotative Bible) and the Word of Faith cult.

Jack Howell can also be found at another site on voy.com, acting in his position as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Unfortunately there are many there who think Jack Howell is a genuine Christian teaching uprightly.

The sort of doctrines of demons perpetrated by heretics such as Jack Howell must be opposed.

Beware though, any who speak strongly for God's Truth will be branded as hateful, egotistical, of Satan, slandered in all sorts of ways, and then banned."

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[> Moore Examples of a PFAKE's Apostate Problems -- ekklesia, 22:15:11 01/15/03 Wed

DAKE'S ANNOTATED REFERENCE BIBLE
This Bible was annotated by Finis Jennings Dake and originally published in 1963. Nearly every book of the Bible has a few pages after the conclusion of the text that consist solely of his notes. A pamphlet that comes with the Bible describes how Dake claims he was given this knowledge supernaturally.

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[> [> Moore Examples of a PFAKE's Apostate Problems -- Dolly Llama, 22:20:51 01/15/03 Wed

There are severe problems with the theology contained in this work. For instance, heresies abound concerning subjects such as the nature and attributes of God, Soteriology, and Christology—just to name a few. Furthermore, many Word-Faith teachers, such as Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland, have verifiably used Dake as a source of their quizzical doctrines. The scope of this paper, however, is not a complete, systematic analysis of the Dake Annotated Reference Bible, but an analysis of what it says about Jesus.

It must be stated that Finis Jennings Dake and those who follow his teaching are not yet considered a cult. However, much of the teaching in Dake's Bible IS considered cultic because it falls far outside the walls of orthodox Christianity. To be sure, there are MANY heretical claims concerning Jesus found in this study Bible. Lord have mercy on they that lead others astray.

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[> [> Moore Examples of a PFAKE's Apostate Problems -- sheesh!, 17:38:48 02/05/03 Wed


- - Moore Examples of a PFAKE's Apostate Problems
- AND –
A Demonstration of His Mouth and Wicked Heart Working Faster Than His Ability To READ FOR CONTENT

ekklesia: "DAKE'S ANNOTATED REFERENCE BIBLE
This Bible was annotated by Finis Jennings Dake and
originally published in 1963. Nearly every book of the
Bible has a few pages after the conclusion of the text
that consist solely of his notes. A pamphlet that
comes with the Bible describes how Dake claims he was
given this knowledge supernaturally."

______________________________________________________

-MOORE FRAUDULANT MUSEMENTS AND SCREECHY WANDERINGS FROM THE SLEAZY DEMENTED BEDROOM BISHOP-

"This is untrue. Dake never claimed divine inspiration for his notes. Rather, what he did claim was a divine gift of being able to recite scripture without commiting them to memory. This is vastly different from what "ekklesia" falsely claims. Notice that he continues to avoid giving us the exact quote and reference where Dake supposedly made the statement "ekklesia" attributes to him. He avoids it because he knows no such quote exists, and he knows he is being dishonest and perpetrating a lie. This clealy indicates who his spiritual father is; "the father of lies" and the work that his spiritual father has been doing, he (ekklesia) is now doing; spreading lies, slander, misinformation, falsely accusing the brethren. He is of his father, the devil. Rev Jack Howell"

......jackals wipes the green spittle off his shoes and comes up for air, then continues......

"Now, for you benefit, here is what Rev. Finis Jennings Dake actually said:
Quote: Rev. Finis Jennings Dake
"Suddenly, and without warning there came over my being a cool and rushing wind. It seemed I could hear the fluttering of the wings of a dove settling down upon my body.

LOL&L&L&L! Cut the drama mamma, even a country boy knows what that "wind without warning" was! Why his wind happened to be "cold" is best left to a professional like an gastroenterologist. The "fluttering of the wings of a dove settling down upon my body" (....and slopping onto the linoleum floor?.....LOL - what a dork!)

"Then instantly, there came from the very depths of my innermost being the rivers of living water that Jesus promised in John 7:37-39. Torrents of praise and glory began to flow from my lips as I tried to give vent to the unutterable gushings of my soul.

I thus received in a measure what the disciples received on the day of Pentecost. Immediately I was aware of an ability I did not previously possess.

I could now quote Scriptures, hundreds of them and that without any effort to memorize them. I just quoted as the Spirit gave utterance, and also I noticed a quickening of the Spirit in my mind to know and tell what chapters and books, various verses were found in."

The above quote is taken from Theological Summary of The Writings of Finis Jennings Dake,

copyright 1988 Notice that Dake never said anything about his notes being "inspired of God."

Maybe the reason, dear Watson, could be because ekklesia was NOT citing that source! - - - DUH!

Revy Huff-A-Puff-A continues to hear himself rattle;....."contrary to the claims of the false teacher and liar, "ekklessia." Rather, his notes were the result of years of exhaustive Bible study and research and reflect his own understanding of scripture."

Here's An Instant RE-peat of ekklesia's original comment that is quite unrelated to Leon Bible’s later quote - for the seeing impaired Bedroom Bishop:

ekklesia: "DAKE'S ANNOTATED REFERENCE BIBLE
This Bible was annotated by Finis Jennings Dake and
originally published in 1963……….

…………….A pamphlet that
comes with the Bible describes how Dake claims he was
given this knowledge supernaturally."

Maybe the ever lovely and gracious bedroom bishop needs to dig through his lingerie drawer for the pamphlet that came with some of the 1963 Dake Bibles, for the source of the quote because a cat burglar broke into the house recently and used the copy I had in his cat box! LOL!

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[> [> [> Here's the problem with Dake & Leon Bible's VERACITY -- Dolly Llama, 17:50:55 02/05/03 Wed

Leon Bible at the request of the Dake family, has in the past been assigned the task of changing, re-arranging, and editing portions of Dake’s original “inspired” writings. He has lead the effort of redacting unsavory portions of Dake's heretical doctrine to make it more palatable and less conspicuously offensive to discerning believers. So, we should take our cue from the recent example of Bishop Integrity, Incorporated, - who announced that he was whipping out his - - - 1917 edition of Scofield to supposedly get the “original writings” of the author. No wonder he is leery of newer Bible editions, hummm? It is advisable for others to do the same when referencing Dake to these slippery folks. You may be certain that when they attempt to make a case for their god, Dake; they will not volunteer the fact that either Dake has been changing the text by writing from his GRAVE or, that Leon Bible has slipped in a “new and improved Dake’s Annotated Bible” and just happened to forget to tell the person they are citing as “uninformed.” This may be one such case where Dake decided to alter the words “God” originally gave him and he is changing his original dispensational teachings from his GRAVE! Remember, however that Finis Dake claimed that his writings came to him directly from God. Dead OR Alive!!! LOL!

It is correct to condemn the writings of Finis J. Dake as undoctrinal, unorthodox, and dangerous heresy. We have made others aware of that position by stating in clear language the heretical nature of those same writings. It is our intent to continue to do so.

I leave you with Paul's final instruction to Timothy, which is really for us as well and an excellent reminder of the reason for your not accepting into your sight the heretical e-mail from a demonically influenced sender:

"Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith.
Grace be with you." (1 Timothy 6:20-21)

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[> Re: Moore Examples of a PFAKE's Apostate Problems -- tamarisk, 08:43:45 01/16/03 Thu

I received this as part of the February Calvary Contender newsletter:

"PAT ROBERTSON SUPPORTS TEACHING OF THEISTIC EVOLUTION-Ken Ham (Answers in Genesis) said AiG received a number of letters from people dismayed and shocked by Pat Robertson comments on a couple of "700 Club" TV programs about those who believe in the six literal days of Creation (12/30 Chr. News). But Ham said he visited Robertson's Regent University several years ago and found that several professors were teaching theistic evolution."

From Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

THE'ISM, n. [from Gr. God.] The belief or acknowledgment of the existence of a God, as opposed to atheism. Theism differs from deism, for although deism implies a belief in the existence of a God, yet it signifies in modern usage a denial of revelation, which theism does not.

THE'IST, n. One who believes in the existence of a God.

THEIS'TIC
THEIS'TICAL, a. Pertaining to theism, or to a theist; according to the doctrine of theists.

EVOLU'TION, n. [L. evolutio.] The act of unfolding or unrolling.
1. A series of things unrolled or unfolded; as the evolution of ages.
2. In geometry, the unfolding or opening of a curve,and making it describe an evolvent. The equable evolution of the periphery of a circle, or other curve, is such a gradual approach of the circumference to rectitude, as that its parts do all concur, and equally evolve or unbend; so that the same line becomes successively a less arc of a reciprocally greater circle, till at last they change into a straight line.
3. In algebra, evolution is the extraction of roots from powers; the reverse of involution.
4. In military tactics, the doubling of ranks or files, wheeling, countermarching or other motion by which the disposition of troops is changed, in order to attack or defend with more advantage, or to occupy a different post.

It is a dangerous thing to use Theistic along with Evolution. Man's origin was not by evolution or natural development of forces within matter, organic or inorganic. Only the works of man himself proceed on the principal of evolution or development, for example: man has gone from plowshare to the steamshovel; from the raft to the ocean liner; from the cave to the skyscraper. But the birds build their nests today as at the beginning. The moment we pass the boundary and enter the divine sphere, no trace or sign of evolution is found.

1. The evolutionary theory represents man is rising from a lower order of being, while the Scriptures declare his origin to be due to the direct creative action of G_d.
2. The evolutionary theory represents man as being the result of successive changes in the material forms due to resident forces within, while the Scriptures declare that man's physical being is the result of G_d's action upon it from without.
3. The evolutionary theory represents man as the climax of development, ascending through the lower forms of animal life, while the Bible declares him to belong to the distinctive human order, whose entrance into being was immediate and direct.

Evolutionary theory is bankrupt. It is more the result of philosophic necessity than of scientific certainty since man must have some explanation for ultimate origin without reference to G_d. From a purely scientific perspective there are numerous difficulties;

1. The inability to explain the origin of life itself from the natural processes of nonliving;
2. The impossibility of delineating a law of progress outside of dehumanizing technology;
3. The complete absence of any connecting link between the transmutation of even two species in any scientific investigation;
4. The absolute incompetence of scientific humanism to formulate any system of philosophy that provides for ultimate meaning, purpose, and significance.


Isa 43:7
7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.(KJV)

There are 3 verbs in the Hebrew used here:

Isa 43:7
7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
(KJV)

"I have created him"(formed him out of nothing)

1254 bara' (baw-raw');

a primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): -choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

"I have formed him"(caused him to exist in a shape or form appointed)


3335 yatsar (yaw-tsar');

probably identical with 3334 (through the squeezing into shape); ([compare 3331]); to mould into a form; especially as a potter; figuratively, to determine (i.e. form a resolution):

KJV-- X earthen, fashion, form, frame, make (-r), potter, purpose.

"I have made him"(made the final dispositions and arrangements respecting him)


6213 `asah (aw-saw');

a primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application (as follows):

KJV-- accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow, bring forth, bruise, be busy, X certainly, have the charge of, commit, deal (with), deck, + displease, do, (ready) dress (-ed), (put in) execute (-ion), exercise, fashion, + feast, [fighting-] man, + finish, fit, fly, follow, fulfill, furnish, gather, get, go about, govern, grant, great, + hinder, hold ([a feast]), X indeed, + be industrious, + journey, keep, labour, maintain, make, be meet, observe, be occupied, offer, + officer, pare, bring (come) to pass, perform, pracise, prepare, procure, provide, put, requite, X sacrifice, serve, set, shew, X sin, spend, X surely, take, X thoroughly, trim, X very, + vex, be [warr-] ior, work (-man), yield, use.

There are some telling words condenming Dake and his followers in the last few lines under "The Doctrine of Man," above. The word mystery in that commentary is intersting. The word mystery is strictly an New Testament term used 21 times.

From Matthew Henry's Commentary concerning the mystery known by the Apostles.

Mark 4:1-20 PP4

The secret of the Lord was with them. That instructed them, which others were only amused with, and they were made to increase in knowledge by every parable, and understood more of the way and method in which Christ designed to set up his kingdom in the world, while others were dismissed, never the wiser. Note, Those who know the mystery of the kingdom of heaven, must acknowledge that it is given to them; they receive both the light and the sight from Jesus Christ, who, after his resurrection, both opened the scriptures, and opened the understanding, Lu. 24:27,45.

Another mystery is taught by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:51 and the Rapture of the Church.

Then, we have the mystery of G_d in Revelation 10.

WRT--"If we will take the Bible literally as to what it says about Him, as we do with other things the subject will be very clear; but if we make God a mystery, ignoring the plain statements of Scripture about Him, and refusing to believe the many descriptions of God given by those who have seen one, two, and three separate persons called "God," then we ill remain in ignorance."

Having had first had knowledge of the wholesale departure from "the plain statements of Scripture about Him," it is easy for me to believe Satan is alive and well within the Charismatic/Third Wave ranks. Satan has great, but limited power, to deceive and destroy multitudes. They never quite seem to get the idea in their punkin' heeds, the devil could be causing their "miracles." And giving G_d the glory for something He was not the author and creator of, is NOT a good thing.

Isa 5:20
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
(KJV)

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Did Bill Clinton's Aggressive Humanist Environmentalist Policy Cause The Shutle Disaster? -- Dolly Llama, 16:37:50 02/04/03 Tue

According to Newsmax.com Tuesday, Feb. 4, 2003

Clinton Environmental Policy Sabotaged the Shuttle

Thank fussy "environmentalists" from the Clinton administration for the substandard but politically correct foam that NASA thinks caused the Columbia disaster.

"NASA engineers have known for at least five years that insulating foam could peel off the space shuttle's external fuel tanks and damage the vital heat-protecting tiles that the space agency says were the likely 'root cause' of Saturday's shuttle disaster," the Philadelphia Inquirer noted today in an article by Knight Ridder News Service.

So why was such a crummy substance used in such a crucial capacity, with the lives of seven astronauts at stake? Because "environmentalists" fretting about their theory of human-caused "global warming" wanted to use it.

In a 1997 report, NASA mechanical systems engineer Greg Katnik "noted that the 1997 mission, STS-87, was the first to use a new method of 'foaming' the tanks, one designed to address NASA's goal of using environmentally friendly products. The shift came as the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency was ordering many industries to phase out the use of Freon, an aerosol propellant linked to ozone depletion and global warming," Knight Ridder reported.

Insulation is sprayed on the shuttle's tanks to keep the super-cooled nitrogen and oxygen fuels at the correct temperature.

Before the P.C. new insulation was used, about 40 of the spacecraft's 26,000 ceramic tiles would sustain damage in missions. However, Katnik reported that NASA engineers found 308 "hits" to Columbia after a 1997 flight.

A "massive material loss on the side of the external tank" caused much of the damage, Katnik wrote in an article in Space Team Online.

He called the damage "significant." One hundred thirty-two hits were bigger than 1 inch in diameter, and some slashes were as long as 15 inches.

Most frighteningly, some slashes cut three-quarters of the way into the 2-inch-deep tiles, near the ship's aluminum skin, which burns at only 350 degrees. More than 100 tiles had to be replaced - 11 times more than in a previous mission that had used foam made from politically incorrect Freon.


"As recently as last September, a retired engineering manager for Lockheed Martin, the contractor that assembles the tanks, told a conference in New Orleans that developing a new foam to meet environmental standards had 'been much more difficult than anticipated,'" Knight-Ridder wrote.

The engineer, who helped design the thermal protection system, said that switching from the Freon foam "resulted in unanticipated program impacts, such as foam loss during flight."

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Sign of the Times - Religious Deception -- Door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, 17:41:50 02/03/03 Mon

Outta Their Archives

When Jesus discussed the signs of the last days with His disciples on the Mount of Olives (Matt 24), the first sign He cited was religious deception. Its extent today is unprecedented in history. That fact alone ought to make our regard for earnestly contending for the faith a major concern. It also means that there are so many deviations from the faith (1 Tim 4:1) to be considered, we may need to prioritize when and for what we contend. In regards to our own walk with the Lord, we are to examine everything that seems at odds with the Scriptures and make the necessary corrections. However, when it comes to biblically questionable teachings and practices being accepted and promoted by others, discernment may include when and how to address them. These days it is not uncommon to be wrongly perceived (or in fact to merit the reputation) as one who “finds fault with everything”; so seeking the Lord’s wisdom and leading is always critical to our contending being fruitfully received.

T.A. McMahon, The Berean Call, August 1994

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Perspective: The Columbia Tragedy -- editorial from Bill Koenig, 17:38:10 02/03/03 Mon

Perspective: The Columbia Tragedy
over Palestine, Texas – Bill Koenig

February 2, 2003

Yesterday’s tragic Space Shuttle Columbia disaster and the loss of lives of an Israeli, a woman from India (who is now an American citizen) and five other Americans in the United States is a great tragedy for our nations and especially the astronauts’ families and friends. Very few can fully comprehend the trauma these families and friends must be experiencing. The nations of Israel, India and the US are in mourning, too.

I marvel from time to time on how safe the world’s commercial air travel is, with all the elements of risk in the air and on the ground, yet with so few annual casualties. There is an even greater risk in placing men and women into space, which seemed so routine until the Challenger accident of 1986 and now Columbia. But somehow God protects us in these and many other earthly endeavors, but at times we have human tragedies that are so hard to understand and fully comprehend.

Initial Report Had Center of Focus on Palestine, Texas


Ironically, the first report from MSNBC declared that the initial search area was around Palestine, Texas. We have provided at our web site maps from MSNBC and USA Today with Palestine, Texas, in the center of the breakup area.

The Houston Chronicle provides a National Weather radar image of Columbia, showing the majority of the debris falling just east of Palestine between Nacogdoches and Lufkin. Click here.


The “pride of America” (our nation’s space program) and the “pride of Israel” (Colonel Illan Ramon) tragically broke up over Palestine, Texas. Is it symbolic that the “pride of America and of Israel” broke up over Palestine [Texas]? Is this a warning sign to our nations that Palestine could break up our nations, too?

Also, the debris was spread over Texas, the home state of President Bush. One item was found 75 miles from his Texas ranch.

The residents of Houston, the employees of NASA, were devastated, as well as the citizens of Israel and India. Many watched the final minutes of Columbia’s flight and its eventual demise. Yes, this was especially a tragic day for Israel and America.

Two Major Events With Palestine Connections


Below are two major US air tragedies with tie-ins to the Middle East peace talks, a Palestinian state and with Iraq.

November 10-12, 2001


On November 10, 2001, President Bush spoke the following words in the middle of his major UN address on the war on terrorism. This was the first time a US President had every publicly stated the word Palestine.


"The American government also stands by its commitment to a just peace in the Middle East. We are working toward a day when two states, Israel and Palestine, live peacefully together within secure and recognized borders as called for by the Security Council resolutions. We will do all in our power to bring both parties back into negotiations. But peace will only come when all have sworn off, forever, incitement, violence and terror."
On Sunday, November 11, 2001, Secretary Powell said that Bush's use of “Palestine” in his speech on Saturday was “deliberate and reflected administration policy.” Speaking on NBC's “Meet the Press,” Powell said, “If one is moving forward with a vision of two states side by side, it's appropriate ... to call those two states what they will be, Israel and Palestine.” No United States president — Republican or Democrat — has ever made such a statement, according to Powell.

On Sunday, November 11, 2001, the Middle East Newsline reported that United States intelligence agencies and the Pentagon agree that Saddam Hussein has made the most explicit threats since the 1991 Gulf war and that he is ready to use nuclear weapons. The assessment is that Iraq is threatening nuclear retaliation for any attack on the regime of President Saddam Hussein.

On Sunday, November 11, 2001, in his address before the General Assembly, Palestinian Authority Chairman, Yassir Arafat, asks the U.N. to send international peacekeepers to Israel to protect his people from the “aggressors.” Additionally he calls for Israel to fulfill U.N. Resolutions 242 and 338, calling for “the evacuation of all settlers from the settlements on occupied land.” Other Arafat demands included the establishment of a Palestinian state with “Holy Jerusalem” as its capital. Powell also met with Chairman Arafat after President Bush’s speech. Arafat left New York late Sunday.

On Monday, November 13, 2001, within 24 hours of the Powell-Arafat meeting and within 48 hours of the Bush Palestine state statement, American Airlines Flight 587 exploded and broke apart over Queens in New York City, a short distance from the UN, which was evacuated for a short time. (Note: This tragic accident didn’t occur in any other city in the world but New York City, the city where Israel’s covenant land and future had been discussed all weekend by the UN General Assembly. The tragedy also occurred on American Airlines, the pride and symbol of American commercial aviation. This was also the third plane American had lost in eight weeks.)

The exact cause of the crash of American Airlines Flight 587 remains a mystery to this day, mechanical failure having been given as the leading possible contributing factor. Could the information reaching the public have been incomplete or skewed at the time? There was certainly a lot riding on the answer, affecting the already-financially-strapped airline industry and the soundness of our nation’s economy.

Whatever the real cause, the fact remains that the crash happened in New York City, it was American Airlines and it happened right on the heels of the United States President formally acknowledging his approval of a Palestinian state on God’s covenant land in Israel.

Friday January 31, - February 2, 2003


On Friday, January 31, 2003, Secretary of State Colin Powell said President George W. Bush will become more deeply involved in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict than he was in his first two years in the White House.

Also on the same day President Bush and Britain’s Prime Minister Tony Blair met at the White House over the pending Iraq war. They agreed to give Iraq six more weeks to comply. Ironically, this was the same amount of time President Bush had just agreed to give Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to form his coalition government and for his formal response to the Quartet Road Map. (Iraq War timing and Israel’s Road Map timing continue to coincide.)

Then Saturday morning, the Space Shuttle Columbia broke up over Palestine, Texas.

Is more tragedy coming to Israel and America? History would suggest it will, unless the US stands with Israel and stops forcing Israel to participate in the “land for peace” process with her enemies.

Eventually, President George W. Bush will see the significance of the covenant land – I believe the Lord has shown me that – but only the Lord knows when and what will precipitate that. Will it be soon or will it be after another major 9-11-type event in America?

In the meantime, we will continue to lobby the Bush administration and others in Washington to stop the US peace effort as a key sponsor of the Middle East peace plan and a Palestinian state. However, we will also pray that God’s will be done in these times. As watchmen, we have a responsibility to fulfill to warn our leaders, but we also realize the Lord has a divine plan, and it is about souls!

The bottom line: Israel and the United States’ national pride and resilience won’t provide perpetual security, for it could continue to develop into the type of pride that goes before a fall.

Loss of Life in Israel


The monthly loss of life on the streets of Israel is a tragedy, too. And, not to be insensitive to the space shuttle tragedy, but the US’s continued role in the Israeli-Palestinian talks has helped bring much of that disaster and loss of lives through the failed and flawed peace process. We have documented this pattern in great detail in our book, “Israel: the Blessing or the Curse,“ as well in my many commentaries.

Over 700 Israelis and almost three times as many Palestinians have died tragically in Israel since the Intifada began on September 28, 2000 (and more since the beginning of the peace process in Madrid in October, 1991), with many more Christians dying at the hands of Muslim fanatics around the world.

Our policies of appeasing Arab nations must end or there will be even greater tragedies.

The God of Israel is trying to get our attention and His fury continues to build. We plead that Israel and America wake up before it’s too late!

Israeli Pride


Colonel Illan Ramon was a very special and gifted human being. Many of us heard so many heart-warming stories about Israel’s national hero in the last 24 hours. The tears of his father, trying to process the fact that his only son was gone, were heart-wrenching. What agony Israel went through again as they were watching TV, preparing for Columbia’s landing in Florida sixteen minutes later, only to see its breakup over Texas. Instead, we all watched the tragic loss of an Israeli, an astronaut from India and five of America’s best.

Jews from around the world were proud of Illan Ramon, and rightly so. Illan is gone from us today, but not forgotten, and many lives will be impacted by his tragic loss of life.

This tragedy certainly provides another time of reflection for us. Yes, all of our lives have a purpose, but for whom do we live? Do we live for man’s accolades and acknowledgment or for God’s? Our life is not about our glory or our country’s glory, but for the glory of God.

Lets all strive for the day when we hear these words, “Well done, my good and faithful servant.”

Soon we will know whether the Messiah who arrives in Jerusalem is coming for the first time or for the second. For those of you who may not be sure, ask Him to reveal the truth to you. Don’t wait any longer, for this moment is all we can count on.

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Another Recent Fabrication of Man's Tradition - This Time of Muslim Origin -- ekklesia, 17:32:37 02/03/03 Mon

The importance of Jerusalem popularly accepted by today’s Muslim derives from the belief that within the Dome of the Rock lies the sacred site from which Mohammed allegedly ascended to heaven. That tradition, however, though now firmly established in the Muslim mind, is of very recent origin. It is, in fact, a fabrication invented by Yasser Arafat’s uncle, Haj Amin el-Husseini, past Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. He promoted this myth in the 1920s and 1930s in order to arouse Arab sentiment against the growing Jewish presence in Jerualem and to justify the location of the Dome of the Rock on the Temple site.

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Dolly -- tamarisk, 11:47:46 01/06/03 Mon

"You'll Like This One
January 3 2003 at 4:30 PM
Rev. Jack Howell (Premier Login RevJack2002)
Forum Owner
from IP address 68.12.221.220


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few days ago, I took the initiative and emailed Tamarisk, in the spirit of Christian love. Here is how he handled the email according to his own post on the Gossip and Slander board:



Author:
tamarisk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 10:26:20 01/03/03 Fri

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yule like this. I see Fowler has, once again, tried to post one of his cut and pasties to my yahoo email titled--Dake and Seven Dispensations.

Didn't have time to read it so it got canned. Too bad!! lol!!

Since he did not bother to read the email, how does he know what was in it? Also, he has shown his true colors once again, for a genuine minister would take time to read such emails. I receive over 100 emails a day from people asking for prayer, asking doctrinal questions and general questions regarding the Bible, and seeking advice about certain problems they have and situations they are going through. I take the time to read and answer each and every email, and I am sure all other real ministers do the same thing as well. Tamarisk, on the other hand, who claims to be a "licensed Independent Baptist minister" does not have time to read emails so he deletes them! Should someone such as this be trusted to be a "minister?" He ough to be ashamed of himself! "

For the information of the Rt Rev Fowler, whom doesn't have even a vague understanding on biblical separation, I have the paperwork, the coursework, etc. You may check my credentials at the number or address I posted down the thread. Fowler Jack, with his spirit of pride and lust wishes he had a format where a few million people, around the world, would listen to him. But, alas, in his Word of Faith, Pentecostal mindlessness, he has seduced only a few hands ful of uninformed, corporate spiritual and religious fat cats to read his dribble.

BTW--Even Yahoo knows the Rt Rev's rantings are spam. ;)

Maybe he'd like a different cheese with his holly roller "whine." He needs to get off'n that Ripple and Cold Duck.

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Replies:

[> Tamarisk - Love is in the Air -- Dolly Llama, 12:08:32 01/06/03 Mon

QUESTION FOLKS: WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?????

”A few days ago, I took the initiative and emailed Tamarisk, in the spirit of Christian love. ”- Rev. Jack Howell on Jan 3, 2003, 4:30 PM

•" Tamarisk Caught In Another Error - Rev. Jack Howell on Jan 2, 2003, 4:29 PM

• "More Ranting From Tamarisk - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 31, 2002, 9:16 PM

• "A New Rant From "Tamarisk" - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 30, 2002, 8:09 PM

• "Tamarisk The False Teacher, Rants Again - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 24, 2002, 5:55 AM

• "Another Depraved Rant - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 22, 2002, 12:09 PM

• "Another Rant From The Warped Thinking of Tamarisk - Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 21, 2002, 4:06 AM

• "After Days of Silence, Tamarisk Speaks!
(SEE! TAMARISK! HE DOES WUV YOU! FOCL!!!!!) -
Rev. Jack Howell on Dec 20, 2002, 4:00 AM (4:00AM, Yet. You had 'em tossin & a turnin in his mammaz bedroom! Lucky boy.)

Can’t you just Fe-e-e-e-e-L the P-o-w-e-r of The Fowler’s “Christian” LOVE! Can anyone blame Tamarisk for not accepting Jackal's cut-one and paste it email? Bet it was chock full of more of that g-o-o-o-o-d "love" don't choo? UM-UM. Kiss our love spot - Fowler! *Smootch!!!*

Judging by his example, I'd guess he must like his "love" on the rough side, ya think? :-):-):-) Ride 'em cowboy, Jangles....jinge, jingle, jingle, dude.

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[> [> Jackie Seems Ta Hav Lost Dat LOVIN' Feeling - Dat Is Iffin E Ever New Whatta 'Twaz -- da Righteous Brothah, 13:40:19 01/06/03 Mon


You never close your eyes anymore when I kiss your lips
And there's no tenderness like before in your finger tips
You're trying hard not to show it
But baby, baby I know it
You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling
Oh that Lovin' Feeling
You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling
Now it's gone gone gone oh oh oh
There's no welcome look in your eyes when I reach for you
And girl you're starting to criticize little things I do
Ooh, it makes me just feel like crying (baby)
'Cause baby something beautiful's dying
You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling
Oh that Lovin' Feeling
You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling
Not it's gone gone gone oh oh oh
Baby baby I get down on my knees for you
If you would only love me like you used to
(If you would only love me love me)
We had a love, a love that you don't find everyday
(A love you don't find)
So don't don't don't let it slip away (away)
I said baby
Baby
Baby
Baby
I need your love (I need your love)
I need your love
So bring it on back (bring it on back)
Now bring it on back
Now bring it on back
You've got to bring back that lovin' feeling
Oh that lovin' feeling
Bring back that lovin' feeling 'cause it's gone gone gone
oh oh oh
Bring back that lovin' feeling
Oh that lovin' feeling
Bring back that lovin' feeling 'cause it's gone gone gone
Bring back that lovin' feeling
Oh that lovin' feeling
Bring back that lovin' feeling 'cause it's gone gone gone
Bring back that lovin' feeling
Oh that lovin' feeling
Bring back that lovin' feeling 'cause it's gone gone gone

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[> [> [> Tamarisk - Didn't Know That Dake Was So "Anointed" He Can Change HIS Bible From 10-Feet Under! -- Dolly, 15:29:39 01/06/03 Mon

>Yule like this. I see Fowler has, once again, tried
>to post one of his cut and pasties to my yahoo email
>titled--Dake and Seven Dispensations.

Leon Bible at the request of the Dake family, has in the past been assigned the task of changing, re-arranging, and editing portions of Dake’s original “inspired” writings. He has lead the effort of redacting unsavory portions of Dake's heretical doctrine to make it more palatable and less conspicuously offensive to discerning believers. So, we should take our cue from the recent example of Bishop Integrity, Incorporated, - who announced that he was whipping out his - - - 1917 edition of Scofield to supposedly get the “original writings” of the author. No wonder he is leery of newer Bible editions, hummm? It is advisable for others to do the same when referencing Dake to these slippery folks. You may be certain that when they attempt to make a case for their god, Dake; they will not volunteer the fact that either Dake has been changing the text by writing from his GRAVE or, that Leon Bible has slipped in a “new and improved Dake’s Annotated Bible” and just happened to forget to tell the person they are citing as “uninformed.” This may be one such case where Dake decided to alter the words “God” originally gave him and he is changing his original dispensational teachings from his GRAVE! Remember, however that Finis Dake claimed that his writings came to him directly from God. Dead OR Alive!!! LOL!

It is correct to condemn the writings of Finis J. Dake as undoctrinal, unorthodox, and dangerous heresy. We have made others aware of that position by stating in clear language the heretical nature of those same writings. It is our intent to continue to do so.

I leave you with Paul's final instruction to Timothy, which is really for us as well and an excellent reminder of the reason for your not accepting into your sight the heretical e-mail from a demonically influenced sender:

"Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith.
Grace be with you." (1 Timothy 6:20-21)

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[> [> Re: Tamarisk - Love is in the Air -- tamarisk, 10:03:40 01/07/03 Tue

Only that the Rt Rev Fowler has too much time on his hands and needs a reason to plop hisss fat behind hisss computer. A few weeks ago, he fell off'n his potty, hit hiss noggin on the counter with a revelation I was trying to get hisss attention by posting here.

I don't read the vast majority of the Fowler's smut anymore than I'd read Dake or Playboy.

I remember when the Dorito unit of Pacadorian fame used the handle HH over at the "new Reagan" chat forums. She, like the Rt Rev Fowler, have not found a heresy yet. Their only contention is we disagree with their failed and false teachings and beliefs.

Fowler has yet to address the issues of his testimony, his persecution of those disagreeing with the content and context of it, his lack of position and practice in the area of true Biblical Separation, etc. No TRUE NEW TESTAMENT INDEPENDENT BAPTIST CHURCH would come to gether with known Pentecostal's in a spiritual endeavor.

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[> [> Re: Tamarisk - Love is in the Air -- lurker, 16:51:32 02/01/03 Sat

Did the PFAKE LOVE-TRAIN run off it's trolly? Darn.

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Nucc's Question Regarding Tetragrammation Answered -- Sola Scriptura, 09:12:19 01/18/03 Sat

Subject: A KJV question
Author: Nucc
Date Posted: 10:38:30 01/18/03 Sat
If you notice in the King James Version of the Scripture, in the OT the word LORD is sometimes printed with all letters capitalized and sometimes just the "L", Lord, is capitalized. Does anyone have an idea why? Someone has asked me the question.

I can’t address the specifics about the KJV’s use because I rarely use it. However, As in other ancient documents, the precise meaning of the biblical texts is sometimes uncertain. This is more often the case with Hebrew and Aramaic texts than it is with the Greek text. Although archeological and linguistic discoveries in this century aid in the understanding of difficult passages, some uncertainties remain.

In regard to the name YHWH, commonly referred to as the Tetragrammation, the translators adopted the devise used in MOST ENGLISH VERSIONS of rendering that name as “LORD” in capital letters to distinguish it from Adonai, another Hebrew word rendered “Lord,” for which small letters are used. Where ever the two names stand together in the Old Testament as a compound of the name God, they are rendered as “Sovereign Lord.”

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Replies:

[> Nucc's Name Changer But He Remains Bitter, Prideful & Niggardly In Spirit -- Sola Scriptura, 21:57:29 01/18/03 Sat

When “Nucc”, - (he eventually had his pride pierced and was convicted enough of his daily blaspheme to abandon his former handle which was “WOG” for “Word of God” we are pleased to see) – when he posted the above post at another board, I answered it under the wrong assumption that he was sincerely seeking information. The above post was cut and pasted for him and delivered to his site for his review exactly as it appears here. His response? He immediately blocked my IP. LOL!

Wasted on Glue may have changed his name to “NUCC”
(is that an acronym for: N ot Under the Conviction of Christ in his witness??? ) - - -
since he and I last had dealings, BUT he obviously still has a problem with women especially if they are smarter than he, and he remains the same shallow, nit-picking, petty man with a niggardly spirit and over weaning pride that harbors a grudge. Have to ask ourselves this: Since the last post at that derelict board was over two weeks ago, I wonder if he deletes all women who present only straight information as is the case above because he can’t handle their being familiar with information that a man claiming superior Biblical acumen should have already known for years. What a small person indeed. Lay it at the foot of the Cross Nucc and be blessed.

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[> [> Is Wasted On Glue Still Sticky About My Exposing His Conditional Love? -- Sola Scriptura, 22:10:43 01/18/03 Sat

Author: Sola Scriptura
Subject: Dennis Here Is Why WOG Did Not Mention shy

Because WOG's "love" is conditional UNTO WOG. It is NOT of Christ Jesus! Read His posts with a clean heart, buddy!

I said to WOG: Even 'sinners' love those who love them. Your “Love” of others is a CONDITIONAL! IT is conditional on who the persons are, how they treat you, or what they can DO FOR YOU.


WOG SAYS HE LOVES THES: "Raine is a “nice woman” because: “I just love her Christian Spirit.”

Wisdom, is a “nice woman” because: “She has helped me set up forums.”

Joanne is a “nice woman” because: “She tries her best under the circumstances. “

Shauna is a “nice woman” because: She loves her children.

Squeak is a “nice woman” because: “She is very bright and knowledgable about church history.”


~~~~Matthew 5:46
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

Your “love” and respect is not of Christ, WOG. It is predicated on what others can do for you, or how you are favored by them. Yours is a CONDITIONAL love that is of the world, not Jesus.

WOG’s LOVE IS QUID PRO QUO “LOVE.” It is man’s selfish love.

You have plainly demonstrated that what you call “love” is not of Christ.

You don’t know what REAL LOVE is.

You have shown that you are a selfish man who has not the Love of Christ, it is a pseudo-love for show and public consumption. You pay lip-service to “love.” While you only pay respect to those who do not openly confront your error.

Luke 6:35
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

REPENT Woggie.

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[> [> [> Re: Is Wasted On Glue Still Sticky About My Exposing His Conditional Love? -- ekklesia, 22:29:44 01/18/03 Sat

Name changed. Same spirit. He again confirmed your observation about his conditional love which is not of Christ. I believe that Nucc only pays lip-service to “love” because he's:

N-ot
U-nder
C-hrist's
C-onviction

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[> [> [> [> Are Woggie's 4-Astrologies Found In The 4 Gospels? -- Sola Laughs!, 23:07:03 01/18/03 Sat

Do the four temperaments give true insight into people? Are there any biblically or scientifically established temperament or personality types? Did this teaching come from Jesus?

Nucc maintains that his four astrologies is “Medical Science” So far he has yet to offer a single source of verification for his claim. Of course he can’t provide something that does not exist. So the stall game continues. Take a look at the chart provided on the link below and ask yourself if this “theory” passes the smell test. I have not reviewed the book.

How astrology birthed NUCC’s (Not-Under-Christ’s-Conviction) four temperament theory that he mixes with his pseudo-quasi-Christianity."

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[> Dori Asks Nucckle-Head If He Read The Tetragrammation Answered -- Sola Scriptura, 17:02:55 01/25/03 Sat

Subject: Hi Nucc


Author: dori
Date Posted: 14:14:23 01/20/03 Mon

"I just peeked in over at the Christian Theology room where Sola and gang hang out to see what they're up to and came across a few posts to you. Sola very kindly answered your question there, and it seems you had already found it from your pastor. I cut and pasted it anyway:
In regard to the name YHWH, commonly referred to as the Tetragrammation, the translators adopted the devise used in MOST ENGLISH VERSIONS of rendering that name as “LORD” in capital letters to distinguish it from Adonai, another Hebrew word rendered “Lord,” for which small letters are used. Where ever the two names stand together in the Old Testament as a compound of the name God, they are rendered as “Sovereign Lord.”
Do you even read over there? I guess they assume all of us are hanging on to their every word. I can honestly say that is the first time I've looked in since the last time Sola contacted me behind the scenes. I must say I find very little reason to go there. "

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[> [> Dori Asks Nucckle-Head If He Read The Tetragrammation Answer Above -- Nucckle-Head's Answer Was ..........., 17:12:40 01/25/03 Sat

>Subject: Hi Nucc
>
>
>Author: dori
>Date Posted: 14:14:23 01/20/03 Mon
>
>"I just peeked in over at the Christian Theology room
>where Sola and gang hang out to see what they're up to
>and came across a few posts to you. Sola very kindly
>answered your question there, and it seems you had
>already found it from your pastor. I cut and pasted it
>anyway:
Do you even read over there? "

NUCCKLE-Head's Reply To dori's Question:


Date Posted: 08:09:54 01/21/03 Tue
"Author: Nucc

"Never dori"


Oh really? Is Nucckle-Head a LIAR?

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[> [> [> What About These LIES Nucckle-Head? -- ekklesia, 17:28:52 01/25/03 Sat

Date Posted: 08:08:59 01/21/03 Tue
Author: Nucc
Author Host/IP: 64.187.5.37

Subject: What about these responses Sola?
In reply to: Sola Scriptura 's message, "Nucc's Question Regarding The Tetragrammation Answered" on 08:08:59 01/21/03 Tue

Are the ones in your name you?


Author:
Sola Scriptura

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 09:12:19 01/18/03 Sat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: A KJV question
Author: Nucc
Date Posted: 10:38:30 01/18/03 Sat
If you notice in the King James Version of the Scripture, in the OT the word LORD is sometimes printed with all letters capitalized and sometimes just the "L", Lord, is capitalized. Does anyone have an idea why? Someone has asked me the question.

I can’t address the specifics about the KJV’s use because I rarely use it. However, As in other ancient documents, the precise meaning of the biblical texts is sometimes uncertain. This is more often the case with Hebrew and Aramaic texts than it is with the Greek text. Although archeological and linguistic discoveries in this century aid in the understanding of difficult passages, some uncertainties remain.

In regard to the name YHWH, commonly referred to as the Tetragrammation, the translators adopted the devise used in MOST ENGLISH VERSIONS of rendering that name as “LORD” in capital letters to distinguish it from Adonai, another Hebrew word rendered “Lord,” for which small letters are used. Where ever the two names stand together in the Old Testament as a compound of the name God, they are rendered as “Sovereign Lord.”

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[> Subject: Nucc's Name Changed But He Remains Bitter, Prideful & Niggardly In Spirit


Author:
Sola Scriptura

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 21:57:29 01/18/03 Sat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When “Nucc”, - (he eventually had his pride pierced and was convicted enough of his daily blaspheme to abandon his former handle which was “WOG” for “Word of God” we are pleased to see) – when he posted the above post at another board, I answered it under the wrong assumption that he was sincerely seeking information. The above post was cut and pasted for him and delivered to his site for his review exactly as it appears here. His response? He immediately blocked my IP. LOL!

Wasted on Glue may have changed his name to “NUCC”
(is that an acronym for: N ot Under the Conviction of Christ in his witness??? ) - - -
since he and I last had dealings, BUT he obviously still has a problem with women especially if they are smarter than he, and he remains the same shallow, nit-picking, petty man with a niggardly spirit and over weaning pride that harbors a grudge. Have to ask ourselves this: Since the last post at that derelict board was over two weeks ago, I wonder if he deletes all women who present only straight information as is the case above because he can’t handle their being familiar with information that a man claiming superior Biblical acumen should have already known for years. What a small person indeed. Lay it at the foot of the Cross Nucc and be blessed.

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[> [> Subject: Is Wasted On Glue Still Sticky About My Exposing His Conditional Love?


Author:
Sola Scriptura

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 22:10:43 01/18/03 Sat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Sola Scriptura
Subject: Dennis Here Is Why WOG Did Not Mention shy

Because WOG's "love" is conditional UNTO WOG. It is NOT of Christ Jesus! Read His posts with a clean heart, buddy!

I said to WOG: Even 'sinners' love those who love them. Your “Love” of others is a CONDITIONAL! IT is conditional on who the persons are, how they treat you, or what they can DO FOR YOU.


WOG SAYS HE LOVES THES: "Raine is a “nice woman” because: “I just love her Christian Spirit.”

Wisdom, is a “nice woman” because: “She has helped me set up forums.”

Joanne is a “nice woman” because: “She tries her best under the circumstances. “

Shauna is a “nice woman” because: She loves her children.

Squeak is a “nice woman” because: “She is very bright and knowledgable about church history.”


~~~~Matthew 5:46
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

Your “love” and respect is not of Christ, WOG. It is predicated on what others can do for you, or how you are favored by them. Yours is a CONDITIONAL love that is of the world, not Jesus.

WOG’s LOVE IS QUID PRO QUO “LOVE.” It is man’s selfish love.

You have plainly demonstrated that what you call “love” is not of Christ.

You don’t know what REAL LOVE is.

You have shown that you are a selfish man who has not the Love of Christ, it is a pseudo-love for show and public consumption. You pay lip-service to “love.” While you only pay respect to those who do not openly confront your error.

Luke 6:35
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

REPENT Woggie.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Is Wasted On Glue Still Sticky About My Exposing His Conditional Love?


Author:
ekklesia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 22:29:44 01/18/03 Sat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name changed. Same spirit. He again confirmed your observation about his conditional love which is not of Christ. I believe that Nucc only pays lip-service to “love” because he's:

N-ot
U-nder
C-hrist's
C-onviction

________________________________________________________

Pretty conclusive proof that NUCC is a LIAR and:

N-ot
U-nder
C-hrist's
C-onviction

~ ~ ~ ~ Oh, incase you think Sak, Sola, Maynard, et al forgot, they are still waiting for you to support your vapid prattle with some proof that your metaphysical four astrologies is "Medical Science"

But of what use are the words of a LIAR?

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[> [> [> [> "You've ignored my question again" NUCCkle-Head -- Sola, 17:51:32 01/25/03 Sat


>Pretty conclusive proof that NUCC is a LIAR and:
>
>N-ot
>U-nder
>C-hrist's
>C-onviction
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ Oh, incase you think Sak, Sola, Maynard, et
>al forgot, they are still waiting for you to support
>your vapid prattle with some proof that your
>metaphysical four astrologies is "Medical Science"
>
>But of what use are the words of a LIAR?


by Nucc
"You've ignored my question again Don

Why? Is it lack of knowledge or fear?


Posted on Jan 19, 2003, 3:10 PM
from IP address 64.187.5.120"

"You've ignored my question again NUCCkle-Head
Why? Is it lack of knowledge or fear?

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[> [> [> [> [> "You've ignored my question again" NUCCkle-Head -- LOL, 22:26:26 01/28/03 Tue

Poor Nuccle-Head doesn't like it when he is exposed to the light and shown to be the self righteous liar and hypocrite that he is. tisk tisk. He can condescend to others, but he sure gets his petty-coat wrinkled when the exact same question is reversed on him. So adult. LOL!

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The Bedroom Bishop, INC’s Newest Plagiarizing Enterprise -- Dolly Llama, 14:10:16 01/28/03 Tue

http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/cultinformation/

The Bedroom Bishop, INC is a man without sense,

he is a bedroom bishop operating from a bedroom,

there is no discernment in him.

If only he were wise and would understand this

and discern what his end will be!

Like clouds and wind without rain Jangler-Jackie is a man who boasts of gifts he does not have,

and "wisdom" not available within him to give.

Jude 1:12

These men are blemishes at your love feasts,

eating with you without the slightest qualm–shepherds who feed only themselves.

They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted–twice dead.

AMEN.

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Terry, 42, makes no apologies for divorcing his wife & Marrying 16 Years His Junior -- ekklesia, 21:09:43 01/27/03 Mon

"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed... If we're going to have true reformation in America, it is because men once again, if I may use a worn out expression, have righteous testoserone flowing through their veins. They are not afraid of contempt for their contemporaries. They are not even here to get along. They are here to take over... Somebody like Susan Smith should be dead. She should be dead now. Some people will go, "Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead."

[Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, at the Aug 8, 1995 U.S. Taxpayers Alliance Banquet in Washington DC, talking about doctors who perform abortions and volunteer escorts]

”He seemed to be living well. He and his former wife were raising their three children in a Victorian farmhouse on 119 lush acres here in rural Windsor, 15 miles east of Binghamton. The property included a fishing pond, a swimming pool, and a seven-room motel that he used for patrons of his Christian Leadership Institute.

”Mr. Terry, 42, makes no apologies for divorcing his wife of 19 years and marrying a former assistant who is 16 years his junior - although he expresses sadness over the marriage's failure. But he said that he did regret some of what he has said and done (although he would not say what), and he wondered aloud what yesterday's Randall Terry would say about the Randall Terry of today.

He still fancies himself a dragon slayer: he recently had T-shirts made in this motif, and the sculpture of a dragon slayer that he commissioned sits on his piano.
He also continues to rely on direct mail 'gifts' to finance his way. Donations to the 'Randall Terry Sabbatical Fund' paid for a yearlong break, he said, which included time spent in a Nashville studio, recording country-western and gospel music.

July 01 he sent out his first solicitation letter in nearly a year ('Every gift counts whether $5 or $50 or $500'). It made no mention of his new wife, but allowed that he was 'a different man.'
'My sabbatical is over,' he wrote. 'I have resumed ministry.'

He frequently used the church's affiliation to enhance his fund-raising efforts. Said Dan Little his former pastor of many years and who Terry often referenced publically as “his mentor”
'Our name was very often connected to his, and all that he was doing,' Mr. Little said. 'The elders of the church didn't want anyone thinking that we gave him a bye: to go ahead and get a divorce, go ahead and marry this lady, and by the way keep sending out your fund-raising letters.'

Mr. Terry moved out of his home in August 1999, and resigned the same month from the Landmark Church. Three months later, Mr. Little issued a letter of censure against his former congregant, charging that Mr. Terry had left his wife and had engaged in a 'pattern of repeated sinful relationships and conversations with both single and married women..' By this point Mr. Terry had joined a Long Island congregation belonging to the Charismatic Episcopal Church, and had won the support of several ministers from different denominations. They criticized Mr. Little for running a 'cultish' church that operated solely on its pastor's whims. They said that no Christian denomination cites divorce as grounds for censure, and added that the 'sinful relationships' charge was maliciously false. (Remember Terry was an elder and board member at the time.)

Three months later, Mr. Benham, the director of Operation Save America - the organization that Mr. Terry founded as Operation Rescue placed the letter of censure on his organization's Web site under the headline 'Please Pray for Randall Terry.'

In a long message fraught with scriptural reference, he rebuked and ridiculed Mr. Terry as a man who 'has dragons to slay and funds to raise.' (see link in another post)

Shortly after the posting on the Internet, Mr. Benham said, he received his last call from Mr. Terry. Both men agree that Mr. Terry made just one comment: 'Is that you, Judas?'

Mr. Terry now suggests that Mr. Benham had gotten involved for one reason: 'patricide.'
The Internet posting was devastating, Mr. Terry said, recalling that he was flooded with calls and letters from people demanding to be taken off his mailing list. So the radio show went off the air. One last appeal for more money went out ('Randall, we will stand with you and your family during this sabbatical'). And Mr. Terry took a time-out, financed by 'people who believed my life was worth redeeming.'

'I went on a sabbatical, bought Guinevere, and started writing music, man,' he said. Guinevere is the name of his new Gibson guitar; Elizabeth is the name of his piano.
Mr. Terry said that he also attended a Charismatic Episcopal gathering in California, where he became reacquainted with Andrea Kollmorgen, who had worked on his Congressional campaign. In October, he moved to Las Vegas for several weeks to establish residency, and then filed for divorce.

Once the divorce became final in early January, Mr. Terry said, he and Ms. Kollmorgen began dating; in fact, he said, she inspired some of the songs that he recorded in Nashville. He proposed to her in mid-March by strumming on Guinevere and singing lyrics laden with Arthurian references. And on June 9, Mr. Terry and Ms. Kollmorgen were wed in a ceremony on Long Island.

After a honeymoon in Rome, the Terrys and their puppy moved into a house just 200 yards from where his ex-wife and children live, although that house - and the 119 acres that go with it - are being sold. He acknowledged that the situation was awkward, but said that he had returned to the area to be near his children, with whom he remains close.

'There is irony' in the situation, he said. 'I acknowledge it, and it's not without pain and comedy.'
Still, Mr. Terry is returning to the job of trying to stay the dragons he sees. For the moment, he is working out of a white trailer in Windsor that serves as the offices for his ministry, his used-car business and the 100-watt radio station that once broadcast 'Randall Terry Live.' He shares space with the burly host of a Christian-rock program called 'Rippin' Richie's Radical Revolution.'

Books by Randall Terry are stacked on shelves; framed newspaper articles about Randall Terry hang on the wall; opened envelopes addressed to Randall Terry and his 'Back to the Battle' fund-raising campaign sit on a desk.
'Now I start building my comeback,' he said."

”
(Dan Barry, The New York Times, July 20, 2001)
I will stand the integrity of Dave Hunt’s ministry and character any day compared to Randall Terry.

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Please Pray for Randall Terry -- Sola Scriptura, 12:16:23 01/27/03 Mon

Randall Terry’s censure from his own church:

Randall Terry's church, Landmark Church of Binghampton, NY, where he served as an elder, has censured him.

“Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses."

February 1, 2000
Please Pray for Randall Terry

"Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the Gospel." 1Corinthians 4:15
Many of us became involved in the pro-life movement through the courageous actions and writings of young warrior for Christ, Randall Terry. God's call and gifting upon this man to call the Church of Jesus Christ to repentance and move her to the very "gates of hell" were obvious for all to see. I have personally been greatly blessed by his ministry and moved to join him in the Gospel battle that is savaging our nation. He fathered many of us into the Kingdom of God and into the pro-life movement.

Therefore, it is with a profound sadness that I report to you that Randall has separated from his wife and family, from his church, and from all of us who have been running the race of faith with him. It is a self-chosen path. He has been confronted time and again by those who truly love him (wonderful friends who have been battle tested over time to be true to Christ and to him) to repent and return to his first love, his wife, and his church - all to no avail! Randall has dragons to slay and funds to raise! All the while his family, his church, his testimony, and the children he has been ordained to protect, are being slain by the real dragon of his soul.

The steps of Matthew 18 have been meticulously followed. Many precious friends on several different occasions have sought to restore our brother. “Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses." Proverbs 27:6. Unfortunately there are those who would rather kiss Randall than love him enough to wound him with the truth that, if heeded, would bring healing. They are making excuses for him and enabling him to live a lie. I speak specifically of the Charismatic Episcopal Church whose leaders have, for whatever reason, deemed it appropriate to accept Randall into its fellowship knowing full well the censure and church discipline Randall is presently undergoing.

When I was first made aware of Randall and Cindy's separation and other personal problems several months ago, I immediately contacted Pastor Dan Little and have been in consistent communication with him since. Pastor Dan has been the Terrys' pastor for the past 15 years and he continues to care for Cindy and the kids while dad is gone (slaying dragons?). Randall has always given great credit to Pastor Dan as being a mighty man of God who is unafraid to stand for Christ no matter the cost. He has often praised his pastor publicly and made statement that he (Randall) is under the authority of a very Godly man.
I have spoken to all the leaders of Rescue concerning this matter in November 1999 via telephone conference. It is now my duty to inform you of our efforts. I am enclosing a letter Pastor Little sent this January to all who were inquiring about Randall's status in his church.

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[> Tamarisk a Question -- Sola Scriptura, 18:14:19 01/27/03 Mon

Evidently Randall Terry is a "Charismatic Episcopal Church. "

Question: Which is worse, addressing Calvary Chapel church groups as Dave Hunt does?

........OR,being censured from your own church of nearly 20 years, then joining a "Charismatic Episcospal Church" whose doctrine, we may agree is far worse than Calvary Chapel.

You are going to write Dave Hunt and cancel your envolvement with him. Are you going to do the same with Randall Terry for similiar crimes and misdeeds? Hum????

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[> [> Tamarisk a Question -- an 'nother dern thang, 20:23:42 01/27/03 Mon

Dave Hunt who has full disclosure of finances and could not afford a staff for his first many years BUT- NEVER ONCE SOLICED MONEY! He has never sent solicitations to us in the mail. In fact he gives away his monthly news letter which he pays postage on.

"THE BEREAN CALL is a free monthly newsletter which addresses issues impacting evangelical Christianity. It has always been free.

Contrast that with Randall Terry:
"Randall's leadership has been invaluable to the lives of pre-born children; but we believe his best days of service to the children, the pro-life movement, and to the nation are ahead of him.

Please give as generously as you can to restore what the enemy took. And please, let others know of our brothers plight. Ask yourself this...if the enemies of life confiscated everything you had, what would hope that the body of Christ would do?

If possible, do that. Go in peace!


Thank you so much for your desire to help restore to Randall Terry what the enemies of life "stole." Your gift will help Randall rebuild his life and public ministry. Any gift you give is not in any danger of being seized by Randall's political enemies. Those lawsuits and judgments are over, and the fund you are giving to is safe from seizure.

To make a contribution to "restore what the enemy took," please fill out the credit/debit card form or make your check payable to the Terry Family Trust, and send it to:



The Terry Family Trust
PO Box 90345
Nashville, TN. 37209


And remember - tell your friends what happened to Randall Terry and invite them to view this web site and to give a gift to restore what the enemy took. And please... ask your pastor to visit this site and to consider a special gift from your church to show support to Randall and his family. To make a secure online contribution with a credit/debit card, click the contribution button below.

Any gift you send is deeply appreciated, and greatly needed. (Gifts are not tax deductable.)

Thank you for your contribution. God bless you"

Kind of difficult for some of us to get all misty eyed knowing he dumped his wife and children and former church when they censured him. The Bible addressed discipline in the Church, too. Also, have to wonder if his new Episcopal church affiliation is a WCC, or NCC member, or 501 c 3. OR, if Terry offers an independent financial audit disclosure to his contributors and those he solicits funds from. He doesn't offer any on his site. Hunt glorifies God, is a man of humility and modesty. Terry's site seems to emphasize Randall Terry as a pop culture showboat icon. (another thing I have always disliked about him) Talk about Kear with the Gov.? – Look at Terry with the pope, cardinals, slick promo pics galore. Let's be consistent.

.........read the article from his church where he served as an elder.

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Sola -- tamarisk, 14:44:12 01/27/03 Mon

Here is the other side of the message most of the Neo-Evangelicals won't preach today. It is important to teach and preach both sides of the message. I cannot say if Randall Terry is RCC or not. I do not know. What I do not believe is because someone is fighting a fight, they are necessarily fighting a godly fight, or are saved.

I can only imagine Dave Hunt would be censured by many true, Fundamental Churches. I have heard pastors speak out against him because of his Neo-Evangelicalism by entering into Calvary Chapels, etc.

There is a great, biblical difference between being a coward, one that won't fight the good fight of faith by using G_d given gifts and Biblical Avoidance. Biblical Avoidance is that which you avoid situations, not because you are a coward, but because you have a temporary lack of resources needed to fight the fight.

1 Sam 26:7-11
7 So David and Abishai came to the people by night: and, behold, Saul lay sleeping within the trench, and his spear stuck in the ground at his bolster: but Abner and the people lay round about him.
8 Then said Abishai to David, God hath delivered thine enemy into thine hand this day: now therefore let me smite him, I pray thee, with the spear even to the earth at once, and I will not smite him the second time.
9 And David said to Abishai, Destroy him not: for who can stretch forth his hand against the LORD's anointed, and be guiltless?
10 David said furthermore, As the LORD liveth, the LORD shall smite him; or his day shall come to die; or he shall descend into battle, and perish.
11 The LORD forbid that I should stretch forth mine hand against the LORD's anointed: but, I pray thee, take thou now the spear that is at his bolster, and the cruse of water, and let us go.
(KJV)

David choose to listen here to the Lord, and not Abishai. David further stated that Saul's punishment would come from G_d. The people I have the pleasure to know, calling themselves Christian Activists, are some of them most G_d,peace, and country loving yule find. I doubt yule find Dave Hunt giving up all he has for preaching against bad government. I can only imagine Hunt would cry like a baby if the goobermint took his 501 c 3 away from him.

I King 18:1-4
1 And it came to pass after many days, that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, Go, shew thyself unto Ahab; and I will send rain upon the earth.
2 And Elijah went to shew himself unto Ahab. And there was a sore famine in Samaria.
3 And Ahab called Obadiah, which was the governor of his house. (Now Obadiah feared the LORD greatly:
4 For it was so, when Jezebel cut off the prophets of the LORD, that Obadiah took an hundred prophets, and hid them by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water.)
(KJV)

What we have here is the continuing saga of Bill and Hillary Clinton. It happens in churches as well as governments. Those real hero's of the faith today, those preaching out against bad government don't have to hid in caves. At least, not for today. There has, however, a number of these men thrown in prison because of the truth. They've had their churches and property taken away because of the fight. Some are even dead because of their stance for the Truth. A position, or fight is one because you believe the cause is just. You believe you have to tools to fight that fight.

If we all fought fights based on feelings, we would have lost our freedoms long ago. The brave people would have never confronted the king. Those brave colonists would not have fought and we'd be reading in history books today, about the brave British soldiers killing George Washington, etc., for treason. For over two years, I stood out front of the execution chambers on "blood alley," on Shaker Blvd, in Cleveland, Ohio. I can testify, that each day I drive up to the clinic, I got a pain in my stomach. I had thoughts on some days I should just drive on by; do something else with my Saturday. But, I would park, get out of the car each time and start preaching the Word of G_d to those going into the killing centers. Why? Because I'm a nice guy? NO! Because I had been given the desire and the tools to preach the truth, by and of G_d.

More "acts" of Avoidance.

Acts 9:23-31
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:
24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him.
25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.
26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.
29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.
30 Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus.
31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
(KJV)

This is Sh'aul's commentary to the above verses.

2 Cor 11:32-33
32 In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:
33 And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.
(KJV)

It is interesting because this separates two thoughts with a solomn oath in v. 31. This was Sh'aul's first time he had to "avoid" a particular situation he could not win, that day, and lived to fight another day.

2 Cor 11:21-29
21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.
22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
(KJV)

It is interesting here because there is another division in chapter 11. It tells of the difference between the false teachers and apostles doing "their works" for "their father," the debil. Sh'aul is not saying his glorying is speaking "after the Lord." Here, in verses 20-29, Sh'aul gives his "glorying" "at the hands of men."

There are those "men" in churches and ministries wishing to place the One, True Church of the Lord, into bondage. In fact, many ARE in bondage today in AmeriKa. Are those things which befell Sh'aul, the result of activism, or hiding behind the goobermint through tax exempt status?

The next few weeks in AmeriKa will be interesting. The war in Iraq WILL bring about terror and biological attacks here. The majority of the institution called the Christian Church will roll up their sleeves and take their anthrax and smallpox injections, taking national ID cards, etc. They will gladly give up their G_d given rights to the NWO goobermint under the guise of a false interpretation of Romans 13.

True, Biblical Avoidance is still "Christian Activism." Y'shua taught His talmidim; His disciples the results of their "Activism." It was taught in many places but John 15 and 16 comes to mind. Y'shua didn't call His disciples servants, but friends. He made known the truth to His own out of friendship, not because they were servants. Most people "serve" their employer because of their paycheck. They may or may not be friends with their employer. I spoke, and continue to speak the truth about my former employer, not because of the cost or what it personally cost me, but because the truth is what it is.

John 16:1-4

1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
(KJV)

I will be writing Dave Hunt to take me off his mailing list.

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[> Tamarisk -- Sola, 16:14:18 01/27/03 Mon

Terry is not RCC. His church did ex-communicate him, however.

>I will be writing Dave Hunt to take me off his mailing >list.

And I shall continue to prayerfully support him and send him thousands annually as I have for twenty years. It is unfortunate that some have allowed single secondary issues to become their sole battle cry against brothers in Christ, and divide the church.

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[> [> Re: Tamarisk -- Dolly, 17:49:43 01/27/03 Mon

”True, Biblical Avoidance is still "Christian Activism." Y'shua taught His talmidim; His disciples the results of their "Activism." It was taught in many places but John 15 and 16 comes to mind. Y'shua didn't call His disciples servants, but friends. He made known the truth to His own out of friendship, not because they were servants. most people "serve" their employer because of their paycheck. They may or may not be friends with their employer. I spoke, and continue to speak the truth about my former employer, not because of the cost or what it personally cost me, but because the truth is what it is.”

A servant is not above his master. It is not our place, nor is it Biblical to make a mission out of telling our employers what we think of them. It is a mark of maturity and service as unto God to be worthy of our pay, hold our peace and pride, and ride the bumps.

Colossians 3
21Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.
22Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men,

1 Timothy 6
1All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2Those who have believing masters are not to show less respect for them because they are brothers. Instead, they are to serve them even better, because those who benefit from their service are believers, and dear to them. These are the things you are to teach and urge on them.

Ephesians 6
5Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.


“I doubt yule find Dave Hunt giving up all he has for preaching against bad government. I can only imagine Hunt would cry like a baby if the goobermint took his 501 c 3 away from him.”

Dave Hunt is a modest man, that is an unfair slam. Dave Hunt’s ministry is not one of “Activism” nor does it purport to be. He in fact eschews the practice of “Activism” as unbiblical. As do I. Acting in the capacity of a private citizen/organization, not a church, there is a distinction, he entitled to use the tax code in a manner that benefits his organization. You forget, “It’s NOT THE GOVERNMENT’s MONEY!” He is exercising his rights as a tax payer in this Country to avail himself of the legal tax provisions provided by a 501 c 3. I as a contributor benefit at well; just as I would benefit from tithing 10% to a NON-501 c 3 CHURCH! To those who would pick his bones in an open field like an Hieronymus Bosch painting for using the legal tax code to his advantage, remember he is a retired CPA, I say there are larger issues in Christendom that are being ignored for the sake of tertiary issues.

Like Jesus’ example of bringing His message to the sinners and tax collectors, I am certain that Hunt has prayerfully considered all invitations to speak prior to accepting them; including Calvary Chapel. Chuck Smith is a tremendous man of God whether we agree with him on secondary issues, or not. But ignoring Hunt’s record of what he has said, written and taught on the topic of ecumenism/Promise Keepers and compromises in the Church for 20 years or any attempts to align Hunt or his ministry, in any way with ecumenical/neo-evangelical groups is dishonest. To fault a doctrinally sound man personally for bringing his message to “non-approved” Christians says more to me about his accusers than it does about Dave Hunt. I have read some of the critical comments about him and his accusers have no facts, and appear to be jealous men in minor ministries that use the same scriptural gymnastics, dishonest ad hominum attack strategies as the Jack Howell-types.

“Those real hero's of the faith today, those preaching out against bad government don't have to hid in caves.”

I’m not into heroes and I certainly do not abode in a cave….OR a “trailer” as Kear suggests. LOL! Those doing the will of Christ are preaching the Gospel to the lost, and exposing false teachers, heresies, and testing the spirits. There are no examples of Paul or Christ ever commanding us that we are commissioned to preach against the government. None. Sorry.

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Yelling, Taunting, Cursing, & Threatening "For Life" Is Not of Christ -- Dolly Llama, 13:38:50 01/27/03 Mon

Rabid angry men; marching on protest lines, yelling, cursing, and taunting tormented women who are about to make life changing decisions is not the Biblical answer. I have personally ended the financial support of numerous groups because of their affiliations with Randall Terry. His methodology is perhaps the reason his marriage failed.

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Sola -- tamarisk, 08:18:09 01/27/03 Mon

Have not had much time here for the past few daze. Have had other thangs to deal with.

Having been taught and licensed by Doers of the Word, and Pastor Ernie, I go with his teachings on Romans 13. I don't agree with him on everything though, and I certainly do not agree with Dave Hunt on this issue. I didn't agree with Hunt concerning his "all babies go to heaven," comment. Pastor Ernie uses the term, "saving babies from a terrible death." I got the distinct impression the RC's I talked with out front of the killing centers are hoping the "saved" babies will eventually become "Catholic."

I had to seek G_d's will in this issue because, I spent over 2 years, standing out front of the execution chambers, not really knowing why. BTW--I personally know Randall Terry. I have sat in Operation Rescue seminars. I know Randall Terry's testimony. Dave Hunt's comments come from one acting as a fool, on the subject.

Randall Terry spent over a year in federal prison for making a comment to, then president, Bill Clinton about abortion. It happened in a church where he commented to Clinton he needed to do more concerning the killing of innocent babies in their mother's womb. Clinton had the Secret Service detain him and eventually arrest him for his "high crime" of telling the truth to Slick Willie.

Does that sound like a "legimitate government," "ordained by G_d?" Clinton will be judged by G_d because he claims to be a Christian; a Baptist. I've read the stories of Clinton's "Baptist" preacher, in Little Rock. Clinton called him, after he became governor of Arkansas, concerning death penality issues. I certainly believe in Pastor Ernie's commentary on Human Government and it's purpose. A godly government, ordained by G_d, certainly has the right to execute people convicted of violating Natural Law. However, if you are of the Bill O'Reilly mentality, believing man's law is ALWAYS OVER Natural Law, or G_d's Law, there is a problem.

I heard the comments of one federal persecutor about laws. He commented there was enough laws on the federal, state and local levels to fill the Empire State Building. This persecutor went on to say there were so many laws, their was no way the citizens could "know" the law. He commented, "he could indict a ham sandwich, if he wanted, to." The inference here, of course, is there are so many laws, the citizen's can't know them all. This nullifies many a jury in AmeriKa. You go inside the bar today, sitting before some "man" wearing a black dress. I witnessed a woman in my church get arrested and spend 3 months in the county workhouse for making the comment concerning judges, "men shouldn't be wearing dresses sitting on the bench."

Dave Hunt believes "Christian Activism" is "not Christian." It must be noted, Dave Hunt preaches that message because of his 501 c 3. He is in bed with the goobermint.

I Kings 16:1-4
1 Then the word of the LORD came to Jehu the son of Hanani against Baasha, saying,
2 Forasmuch as I exalted thee out of the dust, and made thee prince over my people Israel; and thou hast walked in the way of Jeroboam, and hast made my people Israel to sin, to provoke me to anger with their sins;
3 Behold, I will take away the posterity of Baasha, and the posterity of his house; and will make thy house like the house of Jeroboam the son of Nebat.
4 Him that dieth of Baasha in the city shall the dogs eat; and him that dieth of his in the fields shall the fowls of the air eat.
(KJV)

I would as Dave Hunt, who is the King over the "good ol" U.S of A? The Christian Church?

George W. Bush certainly is NOT like King David in 1 Chronicles 28. Again, it was the LORD which "magnified" Solomon, over all of David's children in 1 Chronicles 29:25. Was it the LORD which "magnified" GWB over Owlgore? We can only surmise if the LORD was the author and creator of "pregnant chads," in Florida.

Prov 8:13-22
13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
(KJV)

Don't be confused with people like Dave Hunt who cannot discern the difference between what G_d allows and what He ordains. There are "conditions" to the "unconditional love" of G_d. Dave Hunt would do well to study the Ecclesiastical Government of the Christian Church.

If Y'shua taught the truth; being the least among His children; those that receive Him, having the most blessing, what does that say for the majority being Neo-Evangelical/ Modern Ecumenist/One World Church adherents, among us today? Dave Hunt, in this issue, is clueless.

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[> Tamarisk -- Sola, 11:10:39 01/27/03 Mon

>I certainly do not agree with Dave Hunt on this issue. I >didn't agree with Hunt concerning his "all babies go to >heaven,"

You and I stand in agreement with that as we have discussed in the past year. The church faces false teachers and serious challenges on every side and I do not Believe Dave Hunt is a false teacher. I also am of the conviction that the church is best served exposing serious threats and groups such as The Jehovah's Witnesses, The Latter Day Saints/Mormons, The Unification Church/Moonies, New Age teachings, as well as other divergent groups, sects, heresies, and cults such as the Dakite false religionists. It is not my intent to eat our own.

As I have told you privately. I still believe Randall Terry is a jerk. Big time. Isn't he a RCC?

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[> Re: Randall Terry "I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you." -- Sola, 11:35:36 01/27/03 Mon

"If Y'shua taught the truth; being the least among His children; those that receive Him, having the most blessing, what does that say for the majority being Neo-Evangelical/ Modern Ecumenist/One World Church adherents, among us today? Dave Hunt, in this issue, is clueless."

Perhaps you are not familliar with Dave Hunt who is one of the fore-runners to speak out vociferiously against neo-evangelics, modern ecumenists/One World Church adherents 20 years ago.

He is not a church and personally as a 501 c 3 organization he allows those who support him in prayer and with their finances to have some measure of marginal tax break. False doctrines, a different gospel, and even doctrines of demons have been introduced into many churches via books, music, videos, teachers and movements that claim to be of God. He is a lone voice in the wilderness and it is unfortunate that he has to take hits by his own. I will cut slack to true believers who are doing the Lord's work. Jerry Fallwell donates thousands to Operation Rescue, should those monies be returned because you do not agree with him? Now THERE is a real "neo-evengelical."

We are told to "testing the spirits " I have tested Terry Randall's. Terry publicly prayed for the doctor’s execution. Terry in his broadcast publicly called for Hem’s assassination. Dr. George Tiller was shot the next week in Wichita, and on January 22, 1995 the American Coalition of Life Activists announced a hit-list of the first thirteen doctors they wanted eliminated.

...."I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." (1) Randall Terry

That is Dominion Theology and a false doctrine which I do not adhere to, agree with, or espouse. I was kind when I said....again PRIVATELY that I believe Randall Terry is a JERK!


(1)Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue. Reported by the News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, IN, 1993-AUG-16:

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[> [> Re: Randall Terry "I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you." -- Sola, 13:06:05 01/27/03 Mon

"Randall Terry spent over a year in federal prison for making a comment to, then president, Bill Clinton about abortion. So What?

"It happened in a church where he commented to Clinton he needed to do more concerning the killing of innocent babies in their mother's womb. Clinton had the Secret Service detain him and eventually arrest him for his "high crime" of telling the truth to Slick Willie.

Does that sound like a "legimitate government," "ordained by G_d?" Clinton will be judged by G_d because he claims to be a Christian; "

He was tried by a jury of his peers. Was he not? It sounds like I am not getting the full account of the story, the charges and circumstances. I am not defending Bill Clinton and never have and resent the suggestion. You are mixing apples and oranges in defense of an icon.

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I Wonder If The Rt. Rev. Bedroom Bishop, INC - Heard a Talking Lighthouse -- Sola Scriptura, 08:24:28 01/27/03 Mon

New Web Site Under Construction!
January 27 2003 at 4:08 AM
Rev. Jack Howell (Premier Login RevJack2002)
Forum Owner
from IP address 68.12.221.220
After months of prayerful consideration, I am finally working on a web site dealing with cults and aberrant Christian movements/doctrines. The web site is located at:
Cult Information (http://www.------------)

I pray that it will be helpful to you and a blessing! The site is currently under construction and new pages are being worked on daily and will be put on the site as they are completed."



His demons have him perpetually combing the earth for vainglorious avenues to plagiarize and pillage from other’s work effort in his constant need for attention and as a pretext for his counterfeit titles.

It is interesting to note that of all his so called “Heresy Hunter’s” posts only three of them did he use any scriptural references. Of those most were out of their normal meaning and context. Point in fact. he quoted OUR use of Scripture more times on that page!

As Christians, we should separate ourselves from the false doctrines that make powerless the saving truth of Christ's sacrifice. The motive to divide should be reserved for our dealings with heretics. We should separate ourselves from false teachers and false doctrines and expose those who have crept in among the flock.

The Rt. Rev Bedroom Bishop is one such wolf who readily attaches himself to the title of “bishop” like a common leach, yet he declines any of the attending burdens of accountability or responsibility.

The Rt Rev has demonstrated an ability to overlook many of scriptural demands of the title he covets. He is a virtue-less person who brings disgrace to himself and the church he claims to represent. The title “Rt. Rev”, BTW is not exclusive to RCC as he mistakenly suggests. He covets the “Rev” part and uses it on everything that leaves his bedroom, including his person! – So what seems to be his problem with the correct use of RT. Preceding it? LOL!

Rt Rev Bedroom Bishop, INC and his fellow travelers have robbed the Church of much of its power bringing disgrace and destruction in their wake. He claims to have “prayed” about such sites but The God of Jacob would never tell us to steal the writings of others and vomit them all over the net. Where the early Christians had to rely on God for their every need, drive-through churches and internet sites with no accountability have made us complacent and sluggish to the call of God. His hypocrisy and lack of moral uprightness is proclaimed proudly in his word and contradicted in his every deed. It leaves the work to the weary and small who have a burden and who spend their efforts in a constant and mostly frustrating battle for the truth.

Rt. Rev Bedroom Bishop, INC must first of all, confess his sins to our Lord and Savior and repent from them. He needs to step back from his faux pedestal and multi fake titles and recognize his sinfulness, pride, gossip, and idols of a false “power” he claims to have over others. He needs to place more wear and tear on his knees and less on his calloused typing fingers as he whores from one chat room to the next sullying the image of Christ as he sniffs the internet air like a camel in heat. He brings disgrace to himself and the “church” (corporate) he maintains he was “divinely called” to represent.

Being an elder is a high calling. Rt Rev should not be in office if he is unable to fulfill the requirements of the office according to scripture and he should not be chosen because he is a popular figure in the local church, or a friend of the outgoing person holding “office” or because it is a coveted title he would wish to proudly wear for ALL to see. Clearly Jack Howell is a un-Godly counterfeit and a tare who is ruled by his belly: figuratively and literally! THOSE WITH EYES – MAY THEY SEE!

I wonder if he saw a “Light House.”

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PFAKES Say: SORRY FOR THE DELAY IN YER JOHN THE BAPTIST TOILET SEAT WARMERS -- LOL!, 12:37:12 01/20/03 Mon


MORE LIP (Service) FROM A JACKAL NAMING HIMSELF AN “ANOINTED” “BISHOP” OF CHRIST

”What he (Dake) did claim however, is the supernatural gift of being able to recite scripture without first committing it to memory and he has demonstrated this gift from God on numerous occasions in his ministry.”

Satan when tempting our Lord Christ Jesus was also given a “gift” of quoting scriptural passages and his motivation was the same spirit that inspired Dake’s heresy of the Trinity and various other aberrant teachings which Jack Howell, Benny Hinn, Ken Hagin, and Ken Copeland are ALL on record as teaching!

Rt. Rev. Serpent Egg, INC, continues: “I have often been criticized by certain heresy hunters and heresy hunter wannabes for using and recommending the Dake's Annotated Reference Bible…..I do not agree with everything Dake taught in his notes,…………….” (back peddle - back peddle….we have cited EXACTLY the passages he has cut and pasted directly from Dake’s notes - AND posted lenghty expository from a scripturally accurate position as to why the teachings of Dake are of the devil. SO….. No banana, Banana.)

So how does he explain linking the following? This link is found on Jack’s site. It is advertised by the ordained JACK as a supposed
“Christian Discussion Board.”
See, You Pharisees want it all ways………. Jangles, Inc., SAYS “Christian Bible Discussion Board” .and claims to “not agree with Dake………..blah, blah, blah….”

BUT look what his link SAYS!

”Christian Bible Discussion Board
"A board devoted to the study of God's Word in honor of
Rev. Finis J. Dake and Rev. Larry K. Etherton."

* * * * * For the lowest prices on Dake Bibles,
software,

books and other Bible study items,

including the Dake Compact Bible & Dake Large Print Bible click here.

Christian Shirts and MORE .com

Christian Hats, Mouse Pads, Jackets, Shirts, Sweat Shirts & SO MUCH MORE!”



…………would someone pleeze explain to this Bible believing “fundy” what a “Christian HAT,“ “Christian MOUSE PAD, “ “Christian SWEAT SHIRT “ AND……… “Christian SO MUCH MORE“ Is???? Did Jesus wear sweat shirts and Nikes?

HUR-RAY! – HUR-RAY!! – HUR-RAY!!!! STEP RIGHT UP FOLKS!

“GIT” YER ….X-TRA….FANCY-DANCY JESUS MOUSE PADS AND JOHN THE BAPTIST FUR SKIN TOILET SET WARMERS! COMPLIMENTS OF THIS HERE “ANOINTED” MERCHANDISE SITE. HURRY! SUPPLIES ARE LIMITED! GIT YER PRAYER CLOTHES WHILE DAY LAST!

I made my point.

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[> PFAKES Say: SORRY FOR THE DELAY IN YER JOHN THE BAPTIST TOILET SEAT WARMERS -- Dolly Llama, 13:47:29 01/20/03 Mon

REAL PFAKE fur is hard to find these days. Moore or less.

I'm still waiting for PFAKE. Inc to send my St. John The Baptist chocolate covered grass hoppers and hope they arrive for St. Valentines day.

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[> [> Rt. Rev. FOWLER, Inc.'s TRINKETS FOR JESUS RESPONSE - -- LOL!, 17:52:43 01/20/03 Mon

LOL! Jack is Robert Tilton's kinda guy!

"Obviously you are ashamed of Jesus Christ, else you would not be objecting to Christians who proclaim their faith by wearing such apparel and using such items. I guess they do not want the government to know they claim to be "Christians" so they do not give any evidence that would convict them in a court of law should it become illegal to be a Christian. As for me, "I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ" nor am I ashamed of being a Christian and I will proclaim my faith in Christ however I can, whether it be through a mouse pad, a cap, or t-shirt. I will not hide my faith in Christ because some mealy-mouth cultist does not approve of such items and is ashamed of Christ.

You know something? These folks likely have all kinds of paraphenalia promoting their favorite football or baseball team, but they are ashamed of anything promoting Jesus Christ! This is nothing more than hypocrisy.

These people need a new life in Christ and they need the Holy Ghost! "

Nope. No labels on my person, except my car's hood ornament which would dispell your light-filled claims that we are "trailer trash" so we let you continue to stew in your depraved juices. LOL!

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[> [> [> Rt. Rev. FOWLER, Inc.'s TRINKETS FOR JESUS - Modern Money Changers -- Dolly Llama, 19:24:14 01/20/03 Mon

Rev. Trinket, INC states: ” I will proclaim my faith in Christ however I can, whether it be through a mouse pad, a cap, or t-shirt. I will not hide my faith in Christ because some mealy-mouth cultist does not approve of such items and is ashamed of Christ”

Is that Biblical? Please cite verses, Jack. It has nothing to do with “being ashamed of Christ.” The Bible teaches that our acts and behavior are to proclaim our witness for Christ, not baseball caps. Some guys just love their baseball caps. My guess is that Jangler, INC would elect to wear his baseball cap backwards. No amount of colorful junk for “Jesus” would ever camouflage the witness Serpent Egg has established in the minds of those who have seen his walk and know him on the net to be a counterfeit.


” You know something? These folks likely have all kinds of paraphenalia promoting their favorite football or baseball team, but they are ashamed of anything promoting Jesus Christ! This is nothing more than hypocrisy. “


No “hypocrisy.” The only error here, is a man sitting at the computer screen in the home belonging to his parents making such statements about persons he knows absolutely nothing about. Nor has he ever even seen these persons and yet is commenting on their dress patterns. All for the sole purpose of harming them if he can. None of my clothes or accessories are ads for others. None of my home’s decorations are recognized “name” vanity goo-gahs such as LLardro, which I HATE! Even my shoes which have been the topic of conversation are very modest looking, plain and “Mary Jane-ish” It would be difficult to locate more simple footwear. No one except shoe nuts would know what they are and that is by design.

So what we have is another bitter mean-spirited man claiming to be an “anointed” spokesperson for Christ, stabbing away at the dark air hoping for a “hit.” Additionally, we are not sports enthusiasts in this household as he also was asserting. We may watch play offs but have no team preferences and are certainly not so beholden to a team as to actually wear a banner for them for goodness sakes! Serpent is transferring a regional Oklahoma “sports thing” to others. We have a life in other regions of the world.

Deuteronomy. 22:5 --
"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."

1 Timothy 2:9-10
"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

I dress with propriety, modestly and femininely and always have. I do not wear these “tee shirts” he mentions except when doing messy jobs like staining wood floors or the like, so they can be thrown away! NEVER wear tee shirts in public. I only wear long dresses in our home as well. In fact the only time I ever wear long pants is to work in the gardens for protection. That is where I also wear protective sun hats. You would have to tie the members of this household (or any of our relatives!) down to make them wear a baseball hat; no matter WHAT was emblazoned on it!

There is something very offensive about commercializing Christ’s Blood to the point where persons are selling trinkets and vanity goo-gahs for “Jesus” that smacks of the money changers in the Temple to me. Not to mention the type of person who often wears these items. For instance - How many people have we known that were involved in cults and non-orthodox sects, or who’s walk was not right with Christ, that compensated for it by outfitting themselves with these whom-pus crosses dangling around their necks which demand; ”Look at ME! I am a BETTER Christian than you are because my cross is bigger.” Look at the contrived snapshot of Mike Kear wearing an over sized cross silhouetted on a black turtle neck. (Turtle neck – Serpent’s tongue????) The same man who called persons on this site; “trailer trash” that enjoy watching babies being killed. That cross he flashes, in spite of its hefty size will fail to cover his nakedness when he is called to account for such completely unfounded, malicious slander.

Jack’s trinket stands are modern day money changers.

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[> [> [> [> Rt. Rev. FOWLER, Inc.'s TRINKETS FOR JESUS - Modern Money Changers -- Sola, 19:37:23 01/20/03 Mon

"Modest is a limit, properly restrained by a sense of propriety, not loose, used synonymously with chastity or purity of manner. Modesty results from purity of mind or fear of disgrace and ignominy fortified by education and principle. Unaffected modesty is the sweetest charm of female excellence, the richest gem in the diadem or crown of her honor." [Webster’s Dictionary]

What a wonderful definition. That's putting women in a place of honor. A woman should be so chaste and so modest that a man would be ashamed to do anything that would dishonor her. T-shirts, and baseball caps??? I don't think so.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Rt. Rev. FOWLER, Inc.'s TRINKETS FOR JESUS - Modern Money Changers -- tamarisk, 07:53:32 01/21/03 Tue

I remember a few email exchanges I had with Sharon a few years ago. It concerned Dr. Peter Ruckman and his teachings. While I can appreciate the core of Ruckman's teachings, his overt use of vulgar, often profane words is wrong. Ruckman is a comical old man though.

I just had a snippet from Tony Campolo come through an email from The Calvary Contender.

CAMPOLO EVER LIBERAL, CONTROVERSIAL-Former Eastern College (liberal American Baptist school) sociologist and evangelist - and adviser to former Pres. Clinton - Tony Campolo is given 9-page coverage in the 1/3 Chr. Today. He deals in hyperbole and shock: For example, he says: "While you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition…most of you don't give a [vulgarism] What's worse, is that you're more upset with the fact that I said [vulgarism] than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night." He is one of the only living evangelical leaders to undergo a heresy trial in 1985 (for saying that Christ is present in every human, etc.). Campolo says homosexuals are born that way, and his wife Peggy promotes homosexual weddings (6/1/95 CC). Yet he is a speaker for the SBC (10/15/94 CC), and National Council of Churches (3/15/02 CC).

The Secular Humanism within the Baptist ranks is astounding. Of course, having the Ichthus on your mouse pad, ball cap, or t-shirt doesn't make you a saved the Bible way Christian, anymore than being water baptized by a church or pastor professing water baptism equates to salvation.

I read a book by Texe Marrs concerning the 3 men who "ministered" to Slick Willy during his Monica, oval office escapade.

Rom 13:3
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
(KJV)


2 Cor 5:11-12
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
(KJV)

I, Tamarisk, openly confess this day, to be a terrorist before the Lord. I was trained by a "terrorist" preacher who believes in uplifting good government and righteous churches proclaiming the Truth, while being a terror to bad government and ungodly churches espousing evil, false doctrines. I have no doubt my deeply held religious conviction against conscription, in man's court, WILL stand in the High Court of the King.

From Webster's 1828 Dictionary

CONSCRIPTION, n. [L.]
1. An enrolling or registering.
2. Soldiers or forces levied by enrolling.

The Fowler types by enrolling or registering(incorporation and/or becoming a registered church or ministry through the IRS's 501 c 3, tax-exempt status, ARE servants of the state. The give oblation to their godz.

To answer Andrea's question of a year ago on Reagan; Yes, Andrea, I am a terrorist!

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[> [> [> [> [> Rt. Rev. FOWLER, Inc.'s TRINKETS FOR JESUS - From a False Piety -- Sola Scriptura, 08:28:42 01/21/03 Tue

Great Post. Too bad many self-professed speakers for "Christ" have no idea what your post actually meant. And you really had to go and confuse them by citing Scriptural passages that have never pierced their hearts. You WILL be taken out of context by the mendacious, externally "spiritual" men of Moore who are ever canvassing the earth; going to and fro under orders from their leader - The Accuser - looking not for the lost, hungry, and needy as unto the Lord, - but for their opportunity to vent their carnality and display their real motives behind their false titles. You may expect it.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rt. Rev. FOWLER, Inc.'s TRINKETS FOR JESUS - From a False Piety -- tamarisk, 16:16:42 01/21/03 Tue

"Out of context" is what they do best.

I'd put my FBI master file up against theirs any day. lol!!! My guess would be theirs is blank. They don't nor won't know persecution until they actually have the guts and courage to preach the truth in the Holy Word of G_d.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Rt. Rev. FOWLER, Inc.'s - TRINKET STAND FOR JESUS -- Sola, 17:57:36 01/21/03 Tue

>>"Out of context" is what they do best.

That's 'cuz they are only able to talk BIG and carry a LITTLE stick. It's going to be a rude awakening too. Beezle-Bubba, INC, already flatters himself me thinks with a persecution complex and insists; "(Sola) makes it a practice of following me all over the internet" In his dreams. FOCL! One sick puppy.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Rt. Rev. FOWLER, Inc.'s - TRINKET STAND FOR JESUS -- LOL!, 14:30:33 01/26/03 Sun

>>"Out of context" is what they do best.

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU POSIT:


More of Their Cultic Nature Comes Into The Open!
January 21 2003 at 4:32 PM
Rev. Jack Howell from IP address 68.12.221.220
Response to See What I Mean?
(Note response to HIMSELF! NO ONE ELSE POSTS THERE!!!LOL!)
"I just paid a visit to the Gossip and Slander board.

Now they are claiming it is unbiblical to have apparel, etc., proclaiming Jesus Christ!

Sounds an awful lot like the legalistic Pharisees of old, doesn't it?

The more they post, the more they reveal their cultic, anti-christian nature.

They continually prove they are ashamed of Jesus Christ and His Gospel! "




"The following slogans are just some of the paraphernalia and trashy trinkets “for Christ” one man prostitutes to make a livelihood out of promoting his “holy hardware” on multi sites - some are linked to Dake’s and Jack’s site. These are examples from the selection criticized by this site that Jack defends.

”Jesus Would Have Ridden A Harley!”

“Riding For Jesus”

“Jesus Would Have Ridden A Motorcycle”

“Jesus Would Have Ridden A Gold Wing”

“Dake Bible # 1 Fan! Long Sleeve T-Shirt”

"Jesus Rules Dude" Bumper Sticker"



>>>>>Bishop Beezel-Bubba: Support your remarks with Scripture. <<<<<

...sounds like JACKALS can't be specific and support his scatter shot slander with FACTS. Maybe that is because the false WOF god Jackie venerates rides a Harley Davidson and lives in a Lighthouse!

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[> Re: PFAKES Say: SORRY FOR THE DELAY IN YER JOHN THE BAPTIST TOILET SEAT WARMERS -- tamarisk, 07:53:54 01/22/03 Wed

I seepose I just don't have the same charismatic gifts, Dake and his Fowler followers claim to have. Here is what I go by:

Luke 12:11-12
11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
(KJV)

When you are brought before the Jewish Courts by the Neo-Evangelical, Neo-Fundamental "church-leaders" of today, or the magistrates of man's court and Gentile leaders, to examine "your" doctrine; ALL YOUR SCRIPTURAL STUDY, YOUR DAKE AND YOUR KJV, YOUR BIBLE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE USELESS. For if you are truly a child of the Most High G_d, His Spirit will move your lips to give His message before man.

Those in the Charismatic ranks believe being popular means something. They have bought into the Church Growth Movement so they can be somebody before men. There are those which have made G_d's Church a 3-ring circus through false doctrines and false spiritual gifts.

Revelation 2:9; 3:9 are quite clear about those claiming to be Jews, yet are not. Their testimony doesn't match their position and practice. Just as the Lord Jesus has a Church in this world, the spiritual Israel of G_d, so has the debil a synogogue. Those assemblies which are set up in opposition to the truths of the gospel, and which promote and propagate damnable errors,-- those which are set up in opposition to the purity and spirituality of gospel worship, and which promote and propagate the vain inventions of men and rites and ceremonies which never entered into the thoughts of God,-- these are all synagogues of Satan: he presides over them, he works in them, his interests are served by them, and he receives a horrid homage and honour from them.

For the synagogues of Satan to give themselves out to be the church or Israel of God is no less than blasphemy. God is greatly dishonoured when his name is made use of to promote and patronize the interests of Satan; and he has a high resentment of this blasphemy, and will take a just revenge on those who persist in it.

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[> [> Thar's No LIGHT In That Out House, Moore or Less (an no paper, neithers - lol!) -- Dolly Llama, 08:04:22 01/22/03 Wed

De 18:20-22

20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.
21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?"
22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

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[> [> [> Re: Thar's No LIGHT In That Out House, Moore or Less (an no paper, neithers - lol!) -- Sola, 08:22:54 01/22/03 Wed

The HERETIC Benny Hinn teaches:

God has 9 parts (tri-theistic).
A. God has a body, soul and spirit.
B. Jesus has a body, soul and spirit.
C. Holy Spirit has a body, soul and spirit. (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90)


Same teaching that have been espoused (on record) by Bishop Baseball Cap INC's - Dakite tri-theistic god. He teaches another gospel and is a false teacher.

Bishop INC likes to demand "proof" that he is apostate. What moore does anyone need? That is just one of his errors. Why waste moore time trading air, we have laid out our positions, it is in the archives, maybe his seducing spirits don't want him to read it for fear that he might fall under some sort of conviction of the One True and Living Triune God! REPENT "bishop."

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