| Subject: Re: If the forum gets out of hand...deletion? |
Author:
Tom
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Date Posted: 21:22:19 08/29/05 Mon
In reply to:
N/A
's message, "Re: If the forum gets out of hand...deletion?" on 20:15:02 08/28/05 Sun
"You’re welcome to call me a nutcase..."
I will never call you a nutcase for voicing your opinions... ones which I, in fact, used to share before the Holy Spirit opened my eyes.
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"...at least I don’t belong to a group that contains monsters like Nazis, Crusaders, Mafia, Televangelists and Inquisitioners to name only a few."
Ack! The Nazi party's indefensible acts were as far from christian as could be imagined. They comitted genocide because of Hitler's staunch, Darwinian beliefs. Again, you're lumping "Christians" into one, giant barbaric/evil tribe of people. Mafia agents who murder people willingly disobey God's commandment. Televangelists who steal willingly disobey God's commandment. Inquisitioners who used torture to convert people were not following the "Roman Road" of preaching the word of salvation as taught in he Bible. There are a lot of people through the years who called themselves Christians or members of Christian nations, but lacked biblical discipline... even the Church itself. Had they closely followed the teachings of Jesus history would have followed many different courses.
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"And, although sinners wrote God’s words, those words magically became gospel as soon as the sinners declared the
words God’s words."
Not because the sinners declared them God's words, but because they were divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is God who declares them His words.
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"I really don’t think God is as stupid as the bible suggests."
Did you mean to say "as stupid I suggest?" The hardest thing for non-believers to understand is why God allows things to happen which do not make sense to us. Until we learn this about God, we fall short of true understanding of Him. If you open your heart and mind to the Bible, it reveals all of the answers and provides an understanding and knowledge of God that could not be learned any other way. The knowledge gained truly brings peace and fulfillment to the mind, especially in times of disaster or hardship.
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"As an agnostic, I have no doubt there’s higher intelligence(s) than humans in the universe. But I give any potential being on the scale of God credit for far more intelligence than you do.
Again, when you say ".. than you do", you're wrongfully lumping me in with the wrong crowd. I give God credit for having all of the intelligence in all the universe and beyond. It mankind who is the fool, for mankind often purposely forgoes the intelligence God has bestowed on him.
As a former agnostic, I used to think the same EXACTLY way you do. It took some time for me to discover how the Lord of the Bible is the higher intelligence I pondered.
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"In one post you’re stuffing ‘real christians’ into a miniscule definition, in the next you’re throwing the
definition wide open."
It's really quite a subjective term that depends on its context. For example, there are those who go to church every Sunday, recite the Lord's prayer, and then go home and beat their kids. And there are those who may not attend church much, but they have been saved through their faith in Christ and live by his teachings. The first group of people might be considered "Christians" by man's historical book definition of the term, but being a Christian is all about what God sees in your heart. The latter group are whom I refer to as Christians. You keep having this tendency to lump me in with the first group.
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"You suggest you think of me as “turned by satan” because I abhor the crimes justified by the bible."
No. Satan has got his grip on you because you have formulated a premature opinion of the Bible based on how much parts of it, when taken out of context, don't make sense to you. This is one of Satan's most powerful weapons because it works hand-in-hand with man's desire to live free from a divine authority.
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"The problem with religious “morals” is, they’re anything but clearly defined."
If you read the Bible, and listen to those to teach straight from the Bible, you'll have no problems understanding the morals set forth by God. But if you let centuries of man's actions cloud your focus, then yes, everything will be confusing. Up until about two years ago, I was the most liberally-thinking person I knew. I believed a person should be allowed to do whatever he or she wanted as long as it did not break a law or harm anyone else... including premarital sex, polygamy, pot smoking, gay marriage, open marriages, public nudity, etc. Then when I came to know God and learned of the clearly-defined morals as He taught us, I turned a complete 180 (well, more like a 175 to be perfectly honest.)
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"My personal formula for respecting others tends to be
defined by the attitude of the others in question towards the people around them. Murders, rapists, thieves, child abusers, spouse abusers, etc., are, of course, people I don’t respect or choose to associate with. But I consider con artists, bigots, hypocrites and the like, to reside at the absolute bottom of the barrel. They prey on the innocent from a cowardly “gang mentality” position. Often they will oversee acts of total perversion (like bombing free clinics) while simultaneously clutching one or another “holy
scripture” in their filthy little hands." "Televangelists con weak susceptible people out of millions of dollars without a second thought. Church groups are notorious for persecuting others on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, and just about anything else their “leaders” can turn into a dollar."
You've made some very valid points, and I have to agree with you on how dispicable those crimes are. An intersting point... did you know God set forth the idea of the court system, complete with juries and appropriate punishments? These are laws of man which he instructed us to follow. But don't confuse this with God being flexible on sin. He is not. Because God is infinitely holy and is so far removed from all sin, stealing a piece of candy from a candy shop is as eternally punishable as committing murder. From man's perspective, that seems outrageous. But to God, sin is sin.
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"Religious “morals” are as insubstantial as smoke because they have to be. Religious “morals” need to be really flexible to make the judging and persecution of others “acceptable behavior”."
Mankind can make all the laws it wants, and flex those laws all it wants, just as the church did throughout history with devastating results. But the morals set forth by God are unyielding, and should be taught as such. The fact that God is being slowly phased out of our public lives is leading to a continual corruption of morality in society.
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"And what is the inevitable launching point for morally
corrupt religious and political attacks? The censure of free speech, controversial opinions or the obscene ideas of......“nutcases”."
Freedom of speech should not be censored. We all need the right to voice our opinions for or against our government. Morally corrupt religious or personal attacks can launch from just about anything, but moral issues that stand against things which are obscene can just as easily be launched by Bible-believing Christians who know and understand God's word.
-Tom
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