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Date Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2004, 13:21:49
Author: MKIceman
Subject: Re: Um... confused
In reply to: ANavyBrat 's message, "Um... confused" on Wed, Apr 21 2004, 0:43:19

ANavyBrat posted:
>Er, right. Entering the game a little late here, but
>I'm rather confused as to what's going on. Understand
>that Ayezur is being impersonated over LJ by some
>unknown person. (By the by, glad to know that said
>LJ's been yanked. Idiot deserves a pounding. ::Shakes
>fist::) Understand that Heywood and MKIceman don't
>seem to get along particularly well (Judging from the
>Board vs. Chatroom posts). Understand that this fellow
>Superfly despises GAFFers. Don't understand how the
>three are related. If someone could clue me in? Please?

They're not.

First, yes, I'm contradicting my "permanent lurking" message because this thing got back to me and, while I preferred to leave it alone since it was relatively unimportant, I don't like my "name" being misused or impersonated. This post will address all the other relevant posts for I have no desire to post more.

ANavyBrat posted:
>And if I'm treading on ground that I'm not supposed to
>be treading on, someone please let me know. And don't
>hurt me. ^^

I don't believe anyone needs to feel afraid or ashamed to say something in a place that upholds free-speech. That is, if they truly uphold free-speech.

Ariana Aislinn posted:
>I don't think this is an MKIceman sockpuppet. The
>writing style is very different. The sentiments
>expressed are similar to MKIceman's, but at most I
>would guess that the board poster Superfly referred
>to, who left, was MKIceman. Don't know though, because
>Superfly referred to this poster as female, and
>MKIceman is pretty openly male, so that'd only be true
>if Superfly were obtuse and oblivious to the
>obvious...which is a distinct possibility.

I don't use sock-puppets, and I don't have a LiveJournal or JournalFen account. I always leave my e-mail address, or a link to it, so that you (and I) can verify my posts if it is so desired. I suspect this Superfly refers to someone else, and I have a few ideas on who they might be. But such speculation is irrelevant and unnecessary.

Heart-Stricken posted:
>Check out the first archive (link's up there ^^^). He
>said friends of Heywood are all suck-ups (well, it
>wasn't as polite as that, but hey...), and that we're
>all 3VI1 subv3rsi3vs!!!!1 - in a very pompous, elitist
>way. Then he left a "Goodbye, cruel board" note.
>*shakes head* Some people...

Er, no, that's not what I said. I was very clear in what I said, and I kept clarifying to avoid such misinterpretations that come with "reading between the lines," which seems to be a favorite pasttime around here. Rather than link you to the numerous and split posts here, I'll just summarize:

1. Ilse and I were discussing an alleged troll (Spiletta fic, Anne Rose reference) who seemed to pick, at random, unsigned (i.e., without e-mail address) names to impersonate. Heywood was one of them, and Ilse asked why the troll, if it were a GAFFer (as I thought) would "knowingly invoke the wrath of Heywood." I raised numerous points refuting the hype around Heywood (specifically, flaming and real-life logistics) and flaming in general in order to justify that "invoking the wrath" of one member has the same real effect as "invoking the wrath" of any other member: none whatsoever. The heart of the discussion was flaming in general, and their lack of effect.

2. In that discussion, the "protectiveness of people over Heywood" came up, which I emphasized in a crude manner by calling such people "testicle-lickers" (aka "suck-ups"). Heywood misinterpreted my words to be an attack on him, and he claimed that the implication was that he is a statutory rapist. I had a good laugh, and immaturely "picked at the scab" to prove my points rather than leave it alone. Most notably, such points were: the evidence for the discussion on flames with Ilse (we were both right in different ways, and we managed to make a few rough graphs as a result!), distinction between flames and criticism, and, as another member posted, a dose of one's own medicine.

Heart-Stricken posted:
>Yeah, he implied something fucking _vulgar_
>that isn't repeatable outside the confines
>of quote tags. *growls*

If you take such offense to vulgarity, perhaps you should not be visiting GAFF, considering the vulgar nature of the material posted (by both badfic authors and board members alike)? What I posted in reference to Heywood fans is a nursery rhyme compared to flames left by GAFF board members -- most notably, Heywood -- for badfic authors. Oh well, I guess I'm the only one not allowed to post anything vulgar.

Ayezur posted:
>Aren't we supposed to leave the "I'm jealous so I'll
>call you names" mentality behind in kindergarden?
>Because I think that _is_ what was going on...
>Heywood, being the mostly easygoing cool guy that he
>is, is more popular then a tactless little shit, so
>said tactless little shit calls him names.

I never called Heywood any names, but I did overtly imply that he was immature. Heywood called me a "career politician." (I think that's meant to be an insult, but I didn't take it as such, for fear of insulting respectable politicians.)

Regarding alleged jealousy, this whole fiasco (read: Heywood's huge conniption fit) was sparked by a discussion of flames and an insult to fangirls who worshipped Heywood (e.g., you). I even mentioned in the ego discussion with Long Time Lurker that none of us can or should justify being worth worship, concluding that, if offense is taken over lack of worship (i.e., offense over the deflation of the fanclub), then such offense is the result of a bruised ego.

3. I then raised the separate but related issue that the GAFF board is not a true reflection of GAFF (or the original GAFF). The reasoning behind this statement is that the most vocal board members, whether they realize it or not, give the impression that they are GAFF, when, in reality, all board members are merely GAFF fans. This was exemplified in the Heywood Fanclub, and, by inference, Heywood. (I clearly stated that he did not initiate the fanaticism or hype behind him, but I also showed, through the development of the target's posts, that he did nothing to suppress it, and target ego was very much an issue.) Of course, I immaturely picked at this scab, too, in order to prove the point rather than simply post a tactful version. Nevertheless, it was still a good laugh for most involved. For those who didn't enjoy it, please do try to take Internet message boards less seriously.

Let me say that again: please do try to take Internet message boards less seriously. This is why I laughed at the wailing over the loss of the InvisionFree board. This is why I made a comment about your (i.e., Ayezur's) very own words about the board loss being the "scariest moments of [your] life." This is why I was absolutely tickled at the irony of Heywood's response to my post that wasn't even directed at him.

Ayezur posted:
>Amen. I need to drag Heywood over here sos he can see
>for himself... he sounded depressed when I talked to
>him.

Last time I'll say it: please do try to take Internet message boards less seriously.

Ayezur posted:
>*snarls* He's fucking _lucky_ he decided to lurk.
>And that I missed it.

And now we're back to the original discussion: how much do flames affect people? Let's break down your threat into two main components: Internet and real-life.

1. Internet threat:
Now that you didn't miss it, since I have outlined the entire situation for you, what are you going to do? Talk me to death (i.e., flame)? Ilse and I have agreed upon a Gaussian bell-curve to represent, with much accuracy, impact of insult vs. exposure/experience of the medium (Internet in this case). Unfortunately for flamers, I fall on the end of the curve, where insult impact is lowest.

2. Real-life threat:
Based upon what personal details you have divulged about yourself, you do not have the logistics, at present, to assassinate anyone, except, perhaps, within your own hometown. (By assassinate, I mean kill without a trace.)

We furthermore observed that even mild criticism can be taken as a heavy insult, so we concluded that, criticism or flame, the perception of an insult depends entirely upon the reception and target's perception of the message. If the message is perceived as an insult, then it becomes an issue of ego (i.e., the insult is a direct attack upon the ego).


Since there seemed to be some confusion over the motivation behind my posts, I will clarify. Many of my posts on the InvisionFree board already echoed these sentiments, but in more subtle ways. Heywood's reaction to the flame discussion provided the catalyst, and I dropped subtlety in favor of open statements, which I made on this VoyForum board, starting with a laugh at the posted wangst over losing the InvisionFree board.

Since some believe my posts were inspired by fandom_wank, despite several of my posts clearly stating that I only used a few comments from fandom_wank's board to summarize my sentiments (and I made those points on the InvisionFree board long before the fandom_wank comments were made), I will provide a link to the fandom_wank page of comments:

<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/369200.html">http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/369200.html</a>

This link summarizes everything, including my dislike for fandom_wank:

<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/369200.html?thread=23773488">http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/369200.html?thread=23773488</a>


I had planned to make this statement -- GAFF board is not GAFF, so-called GAFFers (i.e., board members) are only GAFF fans and not GAFF members -- since the "Ho!mione gets raped" thread on the InvisionFree board, because it was that thread that made me realize the truth behind that statement... along with correspondence with The Site Guru (aka Godawful Team).

Here is an e-mail from The Site Guru:

===
From : Godawful Team <webmaster@godawful.zzn.com>
Sent : Friday, April 16, 2004 3:29 AM
To : mkiceman@hotmail.com
Subject : Re: The Current State of GAFF

The original GAFF format, the web site, is the truest incarnation of what I believe GAFF is and stands for. The message board was only intended as an extension to that, as a I believe it important that people should have an unmoderated place to address, reply, or refute what was said on the GAFF we site.

The host of the web site is/was going under and the site went down. I have it archived still. Actually, the copy I have archived contains fandoms and reviews that never had a chance to go live. The site, although not online and available to the masses, continues to be updated. This should give you an indication of how serious I am of getting that site back online one day soon.

While the site is unavailable the messager board is the only incarnation of GAFF on the web. It's not GAFFs replacement, it doesn't speak for those who put the GAFF site together, it's just a bunch of people who enjoyed the concept of the original GAFF and like to discuss things with their fellows. I don't like or support everything that goes on in the message board. Nor should I. It is,
after all, unmoderated, and everyone should be able to speak freely. Having provided a forum for people to speak their minds I have no right to try to moderate how they choose to do that. It's a double edged sword that, very occasionally, I regret providing. The message board will only ever be as good as the people posting to it.

I guess my main point is that the message board is not GAFF and was never intended to be GAFF, but, while the web site is offline, I can understand that people might assume the forum = the new GAFF.

That said, the GAFF website will eventually go back online and a new host will be found for the message board. Until then it is unavoidable that the current crop of regular message board visitors will be disappointed with the current situation and they are free to publicly manifest
their emotions however they see fit.

Regards,
The Site Guru
===

You can verify this e-mail by contacting The Site Guru via e-mail.

You can verify this post, and all my other posts, by contacting me via e-mail.

--Matt

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