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• Quotes/thoughts/feelings on ALL THIS -- Dorene, 05:15:17 07/15/01 Sun
  Wonder is the basis of worship--Thomas Carlyle
  
  The real voyage of discovery consists not in searching new landscapes,but in having new eyes-Marcel Proust
  
  Do not follow where the path may lead.Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail--anon
  
  A man's reach should exceed his grasp...-Robert Browning
  ****************
  
  Listen to your heart
  Act on your feeling
  Live in the moment
  Let go
  
  Magic happens
  
  Or am *I* krazy? Don't answer that!
  

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  • Crazy?! These are brilliant words by brilliant men, and they are all pointing to the same truth. And then there is that old reliable one, seek and you shall find. Go Pilgrim! (NT) -- spoot, 14:52:57 07/15/01 Sun
  • Hey fellow pilgrim(I'm starting to talk like John Wayne) Shucks! I almost wanted to be called crazey, cause then i'd feel on the right track! But of course here we are among far-seeking friends, so I guess it's OK. to be considered sane. (NT) -- Dorene, 04:44:04 07/16/01 Mon
  • Scattered,or what? on replies. sorry,me old Dad is occupying my time--wonderfully. The theme was meant to refer to all this discussion on gender and sexuality below.Exceed it rather than follow laid-out paths to truth? (NT) -- Dorene- New posts,guys?, 03:03:12 07/17/01 Tue
    • Sorry on my side as well. I'm not very verbal lately and all of it has been going to emails. But faced with the latest news about the election skullduggery by the Shrubbery contingent, it may be a political rant! GRRRRRR! (NT) -- spoot, 13:38:40 07/17/01 Tue
  • Yah - Dorene, we're all bozos on this bus...and I think the bus driver got off a few stops ago.... (NT) -- gumtree, 02:04:58 07/18/01 Wed
  
  
• Privacy -- gumtree, 11:21:23 07/17/01 Tue
  I sent out an e-mail to a few folks concerning the latest legislative twist applied to personal credit info quietly passed by Congress - application of which started 1 JULY.
  
  Apparently, now you can call "Experian" or one of the other four Credit Reporting Agencies (I think we called that Oligopoly in High School - look it up), and if you have someone's social security number, you can get their credit history, including a list of recent major purchases (made by check, credit or debit card), latest phone number, your address, employer, bank account numbers, and other interesting stuff.
  
  Just the thing for the guy who finds your lost wallet. Or if the local constabulary decides they don't like your type around these parts....
  

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  • What, now the latest law makes it easier for anyone to get this info or less. Is this that thing that we've been getting in the mail, saying your records on file will be shared with whoever we want unless you say no. Kind of like book of the month club except it's your LIFE that's for sale! Hey I think somebody in congress just proposed legislation to do the opposite, no one can share your records on file UNLESS you give written permission. Okay wirte your congressman on this one, it's only YOUR PRIVACY RIGHTS! (NT) -- spoot, 13:35:10 07/17/01 Tue
    • How long till we turn our telly on and see 'security camera'shots of ourselves in own baths..............!!!!!!!.....Oh, fourty or 50 years I'd say.......... (NT) -- MW, famous paranoid cynic, 14:12:18 07/17/01 Tue
    • Answers 1) easier for anyone to get access 2) yes, it is the "info sharing" bit. and it was all sold under the banner of "more & bewtter" consumer protection, somehow... (NT) -- gumtree, 14:33:13 07/17/01 Tue
  
  
• Im Baaaack! -- gumtree, 00:43:22 07/14/01 Sat
  Sooo very glad that this Board is back in action again. I understand there was some misinterpretation of my remarks made at an earlier juncture. Please allow me a moment to clear the air...
  1) I am not the least bit a "believer" in either "nature" or "nurture" as a dominant influence on formation of personality, sexual behavior, choice of political party or anything else, as Human Beans. We are entirely too complex for simple, pat answers (sorry, pat...), and summing up our wide and varied experiences and almost infinite genetic variation into two categories is like describing the Pacific Ocean as "a whole bunch of water."
  

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  • 2) The post below referring to a woman's monthly was intended as sarcasm - directed at earlier comments stereotyping male testosterone-dominated thoughts. I was not making fun of anything but stereotypes. Sorry some seemed to take things so seriously. (NT) -- gumtree, 00:55:37 07/14/01 Sat
  • 3) I dont hate anyone. Usually, its an effort for me to work up mild dislike, and (as my wife will attest) a lot of (negative) effort is not something Im particularly good at. I participated in one of the first Gay Pride parades in San Francisco, because of some good friends. No, I am not gay. My brother-in-law is gay. At a company I used to work for, my best "office friend" was a woman who was (secretly) lesbian (things like that dont go over too well with the military). I have no problem with any "sexual preference" as long as you dont hurt anyone, dont try it with kids, and dont try to persuade me to join in - Im married, and that's that. (NT) -- gumtree, 01:08:31 07/14/01 Sat
  • 4) Trans-gender, transvestite, whatever. Yes, I know the difference. Mr. Izzard has done an incredible thing - taken something that has been "in the closet" in western society for - well, a long time - and made it sort of "so what"? A good friend of mine, a fellow antique dealer has a photo postcard from the late 1800s depicting several fellows dressed in drag. Want a peek? I think he has it on eBay...let me know and I'll find out. But - you think this is NEW? Get real. "Transgender" has only been a "category" (there we go with the little boxes again) since modern surgery has been capable of making convincing changes. Long ago, tho (history major comes out) - there were males who had their naughty bits removed. Mozart wrote singing parts for "Castrato"...think about it. Henri III of France (1500s) and courtiers all dressed as whores and visited the "bad" parts of Paris. Seems they had great fun. Shocking? No, HUMAN. (NT) -- gumtree, 01:23:13 07/14/01 Sat
    • Cool Gum did you fix Voy Forums? Yes I think Eddie has moved the boundary a bit on the gender thing but it was moving anyway. Androgeny is in, the young are mixing it up in fashion and in attitude. That is, the young in the big cities and college oriented areas, we still have the bible belt and all that. But the whole mixing and mingling is happening naturally, and I think all the categories are losing their forbidden auras and becoming more accepted. HEy it's the new millenium! (NT) -- spoot, 02:14:16 07/14/01 Sat
      • Yeah, I just kept beating on the door, and finally they let me in...*G* - while there's a lot of "fashionable" playing about going on, I cant help but wonder what the fuss is all about. If you want to shag someone, then make sure that you have their cooperation, and that you are being honorable. Where's the fuss? (NT) -- gumtree, 02:21:58 07/14/01 Sat
  • 5) Finally, and most controversially - while we like to think genetics are totally deterministic, I give you - my lovely Redhead's two sisters, twins. One is all Laura Ashley, the other t-shirt and jeans. Genetically, mirror image. Personality, INDIVIDUALS - resulting from each having their own unique experiences. We are, as a species, 99.5% born as male or female gender characteristics. By these gender characteristics, my brother-in-law could father a child - but he's much more likely to have kittens. Personality is the root of our decisions. I can ascribe aspects of my personality to either my father or my mother - and some just ME. Experiences. I didnt grow up during the Great Depression. I didnt live in London during the Blitz. and so on, and so forth. While genetics gives us sex characterisitics, it doesnt determine WHO WE ARE. Your experience program does that. Well, thats what I think, anyways. (NT) -- gumtree, 02:13:55 07/14/01 Sat
    • hey the air's all cleared now, thanks Gum! I wonder how many Izzardites were wandering about, in a dither, lost without their webchats! I don't think we can ever unravel the mystery of what we are made of. My father once said all of existence is all a dog's dream. (NT) -- spoot, 02:27:58 07/14/01 Sat
      • I was lost *sob* - but now I are here!!!! Howya been? (NT) -- gumtree (supposing he did beat it into the ground a bit...), 02:32:05 07/14/01 Sat
        • me, oh I've been pretty busy and seem to be juggling lots of stuff in my life. You're up late tonight! (NT) -- spoot, 02:34:47 07/14/01 Sat
          • Yes - and its been noticed, too...I have been instructed that Ive been too long on the computer...*G* (NT) -- gumtree, 02:37:52 07/14/01 Sat
            • Are you going to beddy bye then? Does your mate get irritated? Mine does, but tries to be patient, tries really hard (NT) -- spoot, 02:41:19 07/14/01 Sat
              • Im off for the evening -sorry, but I have been summoned by She Who Must Be Obeyed...(a stolen line....) gnite, Spoot! All the best... (NT) -- gumtree, 02:45:11 07/14/01 Sat
                • g'night! Sweet dreams! (NT) -- spoot, 02:51:37 07/14/01 Sat
    • ..and on the flip side of that: my best friend Andy is gay. His brother is gay. His MOTHER is gay (well, apparently she wasn't gay at least twice in her life...nyuk nyuk) and only the father is straight. The parents are, of course, divorced now but when you see this you can't help but think genetics had some hand in this. I definitely think it's a mix of genetics and environment. If I could be a little personal for a moment, as far as I know I'm the only one in my family and extended family that's queer (although that doesn't really mean anything since someone could be in the closet). Growing up, I remember my 'Aunt Linda' (cousin of a cousin twice removed, etc.) who was openly gay and we immediately clicked. I was her favorite, etc. etc. and I had to be only 5-7 years old. What's up with that? Did she know something I didn't know?? Yet, that's stayed with me all these years and the memory of hearing about her being gay and immeditely being drawn to her yet I didn't know why. (NT) -- lyn, 12:59:38 07/14/01 Sat
    • Anyhoo, living in SF made it much easier to come out and to find support among friends and when I did come out it was a party and a celebration (literally, I came out at my office Xmas party). I was welcomed by all the gay employees and my straight friends as well. It was pretty cool...when I told my family, they were incredibly loving and supportive even my parents who are devout catholics, older, immigrants from the Philippines, etc. Okay, I've lost my point here. And I'm too lazy to scroll back. Ah yes, I think in my personal case it was definitely a mix of genetics and environment and I'm sure it's different for everybody else...was that my point? I hope you can glean some useful information from this...hahaha (NT) -- lyn, 13:00:53 07/14/01 Sat
      • Lyn you're not only gay but your mind is a sieve! Nyuck nyuck! No yeah, so many alternative peoples say they just felt it in their bones from first memory and that's why they say it must be genetic. But then others are sort of indeterminate and only come out later so perhaps it emerges later. I dunno, I just know that if you feel it in your bones, then you cannot deny it, you gotta go with it, and people who say that it is not the natural way are people who don't understand nature. (NT) -- spoot with Mother Nature costume on, 13:35:45 07/14/01 Sat
        • heehee....yeah, I have the attention span of a 5 year old which make me the perfect playmate for my nephew. I was just talking to Bin about how interesting it is to look back in your life and to see 'signs' that were clearly there but back then you had no idea. Totally subconscious...hey, does this mean gaydar is genetic too? (NT) -- lyn, 14:28:02 07/14/01 Sat
          • I dunno, maybe it's part of the paranormal. Or it's pheromones? What do pheromones smell like? Whatever it is, that antenna for sex vibes is something I'm pretty clueless about. i walk around in a fog and people have to tell me that somebody was giving me the eye. I'm always "huh?" (NT) -- spoot going outside, it's a gorgeous day in LA!, 15:10:25 07/14/01 Sat
            • they smell "nice", of course.....HA! (NT) -- BZC just came in for it's too bloody hot now, 15:21:45 07/14/01 Sat
      • great reply lyn, I've always felt that alot of this stuff is mostly genetic and though environment may determine a bit when someone "comes out", alot of it may be the timing of the person recognizing who they truly are, and then the tremendous courage to be who they are in a society that may not want to accept them. I have a gay male mormon friend that I grew up with that is so repressed by his religion that he will never come out, but he lives a life of personal hell because of it. He can't face who he really is, but it's obviousl to us around him. It's quite tragic really. I have tremendous respect for those that stand up for what they are or believe whatever it is, that takes guts. (NT) -- BZC, 15:16:45 07/14/01 Sat
        • I agree - thats quite sad. And yet another example of the wonderful world that organized religion has brought us. (NT) -- gumtree, 18:07:02 07/14/01 Sat
          • yes it always interests me how some people find so much comfort in religion, where I didn't feel free until I left those bonds behind in high school(I was raised presbyterian). So many, many people have died in religious wars, ironic it seems. (NT) -- BZC, 18:24:23 07/14/01 Sat
            • Wars? Oh, my yes...and hangings, and burnings, and executions, and gas chambers...LOADS of fun...I were sort of raised as a Friend (Quakers) - had no problem with it until one day I was told "You MUST believe THIS" and I said "Erm, nooo..." and I remain unrepentant. Certainly freed up Sundays.... (NT) -- gumtree, 18:32:05 07/14/01 Sat
              • yes it was funny but I was sent to a "christian convention" in hopes it would "turn me around" after the donut bribes after church quit working.....well I guess the "turn" wasn't what everyone hoped for, but it was a turning point indeed....ah yes sundays, I worship my cats and landscapes. (NT) -- BZC always been a subtle wild child, 19:32:04 07/14/01 Sat
  • Fantastic! Amazin! Thanks Lyn - interesting perspective. i suppose what Im trying to say is that "I DONT KNOW" - but I cant believe in a deterministic approach to anything human - genetics may give us merely the vessel into which everything is poured (searching for a picture) - while each expereience is unique and only occurs to that person, the vessel is shaped in certain ways, and given the right input, will "react" with a behavior - which is in turn modified by other sets of experiences, and other "shapes" in the vessel. Am I drifitng off too far? I can confuse myself, sometimes.... (NT) -- gumtree, 17:11:23 07/14/01 Sat
    • Intriguing - go to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genemap99/ - see how complex all this is??? (NT) -- gumtree, 18:01:06 07/14/01 Sat
    • I have to say, I LOVE the confused,drifting gumtree searching with your own self, not so much attention to refernces. But it's all interest -arresting (NT) -- Dorene, 04:29:09 07/15/01 Sun
  
  
• ..this and that.. -- BZC, 16:01:45 07/12/01 Thu
  I've enjoyed coming home and reading some of the great posts on the board, so I'd like to comment to a few if you would put up with me. I do think we are! animals in the animal kingdom, it's just we're the most supposedly evolved animals on the earth. The great thing about be homo sapien is that we can aspire to great thoughts and accomplishments but as Vex pointed out in a response on someone's post a few days back, we also have that amazing, primitive urge to shag, which isn't evolved at all, but is vital if we care to perpetuate our own species. So in terms of evolutionary long term consequences, be it sexual or asexual reproduction that occurs in both the plant and animal kingdom, shagging may have a much higher consciousness than we are aware of, great thoughts won't perpetuate our species per se, but shagging will...my point being, we are animals, we aren't removed from them at all...and we don't know that they don't have conscious thought. I have one little cat that is my personal goddess, she to me is perfection, both physically and she's loving and wild in the same breath. At moments my interactions and her responses to my moods are amazing. So I never assume that that beautiful little mind doesn't have much more going on in it than we humans have the ability to measure.
  
  Now...as for humans, well we do connect with people on various levels, some stranger while in transit somewhere we may have some great and wonderful conversation with and another we may fear or feel a strange foreboding. Then we have friends and work associates and loved ones who we all have varying connections with, and as Moira has so lovingly said before, instinctively we know who we are safe with and who we aren't and all these thoughts and feelings brings us to this very moment of being. So maybe for people that means concsiously or unconsciously creating boxes and only feeling safe with others in that particular box, or again as Vex pointed out, if you're at a party, and you want to connect with like minded folks, then we need the categorization to accomplish our goals, whatever they are at the moment. So perhaps to categorize and/or be open to anything seem to both be important in moving through life. We ultimately each do what we need to do to take care of ourselves.
  
  And...finally, are things real only if they are real in a physical and/or measured sense? Or are our senses and feelings about situations just as equally valid? I have a science background so I always want data to back up my thoughts or feelings, but I think I'm also fairly intuitive, so I always listen to what my gut feelings are usually shouting at me. There's alot out there that can't be measured quantitatively, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or isn't real. I have felt a weird(can't define if it's good or bad really) energy for a while lately that seems to have dissipated somewhat.
  This is something I can't explain or measure so it has been very frustrating for me. I know others have felt it to. Is it real? I can't say...for me it has been real, but who knows? Life's a mystery and an adventure isn't it?
  
  Babble over, for now!
  
  Behind the Zion Curtain
  

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  • BZC! Lovely post! I am focusing on your last bit....the weird feelings....we discussed this before and I felt it, you felt it and DoBee felt it...it has eased for me...and DoBee confirmed the same for her! And now you!! It was a heavy weight that seems to have been lifted. I am a gut instinct person as well..that's why I'm crap at debate..I don't have facts to back up what I say..I just have my feelings. Hugs hunni! Glad to see you back. (NT) -- Teri, 17:50:36 07/12/01 Thu
    • Welcome back home BZC, I will post again tomorrow as I am too tired tonight to get my mind in focus but I agree that it's not proven that animals are not conscious, in fact I think there's a book out by a scientist who gives many examples of all sorts of animals shown thinking and planning and doing somethink and of animals doing altruistic things even for animals of other species. Well that's it, my brain is saying No, get up and go to bed, I need my REM sleep, so nighty-nite! (NT) -- spoot blowing kisses, 01:17:12 07/13/01 Fri
    • Teri, you mustn't say that you are crap at debate, you are very good, love to see your posts here, and maybe it's only you're not a pedantic gasbag type but when you post your voice rings with truth and no BS so please eat some beans and come back with some more gas! (NT) -- spoot shakes finger at silly Teri finger hits keyboard ouch!, 01:27:50 07/13/01 Fri
      • Thank you darlin' for saying so! I appreciate it more than you will know. (NT) -- Teri~~flip chart~~get some beans next trip to grocery..., 07:08:22 07/13/01 Fri
  
  
• For those of us who want to babble about him endlessly, we sure do get sidetracked in the most interesting fashions! -- DoBeeDeux, 23:43:51 07/11/01 Wed
  I have the most facinating article that Monstella just emailed me about a new anthropological find in Ethopia that fills in more info about the origin of our species. I'll post it in a reply, cuz it's quite long. Thought you be interested!
  

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  • Ancient Bones Found in Ethiopia CLICK HERE -- DoBeeDeux, 23:44:56 07/11/01 Wed
    • Wow, DoBee! This is amazing stuff!!!!!! What I think is SO great is that when researchers find something, they declare THAT the beginning of something, the oldest, etc etc etc. Then they find another and are like "errrr, we meant THIS one is!" 5.5 million years.. my GOD! Thats really quite awesome. I remember seeing something on the Discovery Channel about a species like humans that lived, but died out- their bone structure was VERY similar, but they became distinct. Then, humans came along after that completely seperate. So maybe this new one IS different from Lucy altogether. Anyways, way interesting stuff! Okay, so why DID we start to walk upright? Explain that smarty-pants-scientist men in this article! :) (NT) -- Bin!, 02:25:59 07/12/01 Thu
      • I always find this very hard to completely accept, I know they are scientists and all and probably know so much that I wouldn't be struck dumb by their brilliance but geez they said they could tell by one toe bone that they stood upright! One toe! And you can tell all that from a toe? Well then what size show did he wear, huh Mr. Smartypants? (NT) -- spoot with fish and chips on shoulder, 01:37:13 07/13/01 Fri
  • very very interesting article thankyou very much.the whole theory of how we ended up at discos shouting over music that prevents any form of conversation is a facinating one and i dont understand it quite more to follow....huggggggs;] (NT) -- moiraxxx taking the bit between the teeth, 08:21:28 07/12/01 Thu
  • there were agroup who lived on roots for some reason these roots got harder to chew or vanished and were replaced with bigger roots so the group had to evolve bigger jaws to be able to chew the roots as they were herbivores...and in the meantime what did they do i mean you dont just evolve a bigger jaw over night do you.....hugggggggs;] (NT) -- moiraxx dont know about jaw but certainly a big gob, 08:23:54 07/12/01 Thu
  • as this was all just glibly passed over and not explained it makes it hard to flow really dosent it...i read a lot of history but find this paticular part of it difficult as i dont understand the nuts and bolts of it....in another instance a type had blood poisoning and collpased in a river an ancient hippo came and stood on him thus he was drowned then the programme said the hippo stood there for a long time and the type fell to bits and became a skeleton .i know hippos wouldnt enter the olympics but dear me how long was this one stood there....if it hadnt apparently the poor type would have ben washed away????? what luck !!!!! it really needs brass tacks in place errthe subject not the body but thanx again for a great read huggggs;]. (NT) -- moiraxxx goes to lie down and post...hippo free, 08:29:26 07/12/01 Thu
  
  
• hello out of the ether just a few thoughts for what they are worth mmmmmwahxxx to all -- moiraxxx waving and happy to be here ..she can make it now, 07:04:55 07/11/01 Wed
  well then it seems to me that we all have something that makes us who we are i like to refer to it as a soul..this soul is ageless genderless and without appearence it just "is"
  a whole lot of personality and ideas and thoughts and hopes and stuff like that....our wrapping is more what we learn and see around us and how it makes us feel but what makes us feel is the soul and just is....you cant pin it down or get to the whole crux of it because it is facets without number and noone ever even really knows themselves in the end do they???and it has the ability to add to each facet making endless possibilities. and that is what makes people so exciting you just never know ...people say to me that i dont judge people well thats probably because i wouldnt know how to..so im not much good for the purposes of the current debate am i hehehehe..i dont accept people because that would suggest a process of judgement ... they just are....and it either works for me or not....how does this work with baddies like hitler and similar well they just are as well and its easy to see that its not what anyone would want to associate with...may i at least be able to contribute in some way to this debate by asking two questions???? how do we know if we are trying to sort people into catagories or how it came about if we have managed it or not??? and if we do manage it what difference does that make in the way we view that person...now that presumably we know them so well does it make us closer or less interested........please dont misunderstand me i not being horrible here or inflammatory at all debate away and well done spoot on a great board...im just curious on the one hand and want to join in in some way on the other...bear with me...and please have a great day......cos you are all smashers
  humungussssssss hugggggggggggggggggggs
  and mmmmmmmmwwwwwwwwwwwwahxxxxxxxx
  moiraxxx who loves you!!!!!!!!!1
  

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  • Moira, I am glad you are here! (NT) -- Magenta, 07:33:21 07/11/01 Wed
  • BINGO! Im afraid my point got somewhat lost among the WORDS - I was trying to say that we are all persons, and whats the point of sorting folk into little boxes? (NT) -- gumtree, 10:17:32 07/11/01 Wed
    • The only reason behins the imperative to sort people into boxes is the human drive to see what our chances are for getting shagged. I'm not being flip about this, I'm serious. Without the little boxes, people tend to run about like Eddie European Nations bit: "Oh...err...you're with him? Right and you? Yes, with, umm, sorry...hello!" (NT) -- Vex., who hopes she's not crashing the party...?, 11:26:11 07/11/01 Wed
      • Very well put. Feeble attempt at organizing this mess into something one can put a handle to...the way the brain is structured - early on, we see the burny end of a candle and say "pretty!" and then get burned. (NT) -- gumtree, 11:48:16 07/11/01 Wed
        • Precisely. I mean, it's all very well and noble to say that there should be no labelling of sexuality (hence no sexism, hate crimes, pigeon-holing, etc.), but at the end of the day, it would get very complicated at the cocktail party, know-wot-I-mean? (NT) -- Vex., 12:26:35 07/11/01 Wed
          • Or it could make every party into a Roman orgy! Peel me a grape, you georgeous hunk of a man, woman, boy, whatever, as longs as it's flesh (NT) -- spoot, 12:53:04 07/11/01 Wed
            • ...which would be heaven for those interested in everyone, or even just perhaps interested in a little something-maybe with anyone, but what about people who are less open? The strictly straight or the strictly gay? If everything's a spectrum it means there are two ends, and those two ends would be miserable in a category-less society, yes? (NT) -- Vex., who's thinking about all this waaay too much..., 13:56:22 07/11/01 Wed
  • hahahaha well said folks and i spose its true but to me it doesnt work mind you ive never actually worried about getting shagged...hehehe i think i must have slipped throught that net it never occurs to me at all...i just float not to any great success but in happy haze ....so as i say im not much use in this debate really but its great to hear your comments so thanx for that folks huggggggggs;].. (NT) -- moiraxxx vague but happyish, 11:55:42 07/11/01 Wed
    • Lucky girl! I often imagine all the things I could do with my life if I wasn't thinking about sex all the time...it would be very freeing, but, I don't think I'd survive very long... (NT) -- Vex., 12:40:17 07/11/01 Wed
  • sorry that sounds as if i am laughing at what people say and im not at all...its just i spose personal opinion with me i would hate to be boxed and i have been and know how it feels...and i just havent the urge with anyone else what do i know well just what my soul tells me and no more please tho chat on...ill make the tea and bring the biccys hugggggggs;] (NT) -- moiraxxx unqualified to debate this will listen and learn, 12:00:19 07/11/01 Wed
    • Moira you silly goose, your thoughts are always the most on the point of all of us, and yeah I know what you mean about shagging, it doesn't occur to me a lot of times in the real world but somehow Eddie does it to me, don't know why, maybe coz he's safely out of reach! But do sit down and don't be shy, you know we all LOVE it when you talk, your mind is a playground of ideas and images! (NT) -- spoot, 12:50:12 07/11/01 Wed
  • As per usual I'm days late responding for I've been out of town, but Moira this is a great post. I do think the very deepest part of a person is the most significant and if we used our seemingly evolved brains, the surface phenomenon of each individual wouldn't be important, but most of us aren't that evolved so I think we both pigeon hole and categorize to gain a small bit of control and order when they don't really exist, because the universe is always changing and entropy is real, but those ideas are too big to grasp most of the time. So in our own little microcosms, we name and categorize and order and judge and somehow this all gives us a sense of understanding and security. Regarding you, I do feel you are one of the few people I've encountered in my life that doesn't judge others, you take people face on, for whoever they are. That makes you a very unique person. The infinite possibilities don't terrify you, you embrace them, where others it would scare to death. (NT) -- BZC you're special Moira, just like Eddie...., 15:02:27 07/12/01 Thu
  
  
• welll heres a bit of history as well... -- moiraxxx waving, 08:49:08 07/12/01 Thu
  ive got yet another book on learning to read hyroglyphs (cant spell so im a lot of use hehehe)!! To be able to crack the code of these ancients has been a long time ambition of mine..(i worked with code in the raf so it must be an aquired taste)the thing is it seems a bit of an iffy thing really...very complcated,varied and open to viewpoint...working from the rosetta stone the ability to hear ancient egyptions speak is now possible...and thats great provided its right..of course if it was completely wrong it would be apparent as it would make nooooo sense at all...but supposing its just off and for years yet again people have been misquoting and getting the wrong idea..its not really terribly reasssuring when you are told to add letters in between other letters to say them .how do we know they are the right letters...ramesis for example is just rmss and you pop the letters in between to make up the name supposing its romesas or something like that...or maybe he was called rmss and good luck to him...perhaps i suffer from being crap at word games in papers and those books you buy with them all in....and there are no snswers at the back of a tomb wall to help you are there...it would be funny if we were all wrong and they spoke in very clipped tones like noel coward on something powerful...and here we are grinning like monkeys (nice link to post below eh??) with our big jaws and powerful brains up the creek without a paddle...i like it actually...my favorite quote of all will always be about ramesis when it says "he retired into private life surrounded by his family" as he had fifty odd recorded sons more on top of that and he didnt bother to log his daughters but they went out for walks in crocodile file would nt that be unavoidable? and was it a seige situation the family surrounding him armed to the teeth and him hiding somewhere i dont know but if you add the wvies and concubines on top of that enormous group variable quotes from a hundred children upwards are about ...."private" isnt the word id use hehehe
  have a great day all of you
  humungussssssss huggggggggggggsssss
  and mmmmmmmmwwwwwahxxx
  moiraxxx who loves you!!!!!!!
  

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  • Hello Moira my dear and hello to all below, well we've gone quite archealogical this morning, discoveries piling up so fast, maybe the scientists used Eddie's famous patented method of Speed Archeology! I heard last morning on the radio there was a conference on the origins of writing, and the confounded thing is that the earliest form known is in Sumeria and it was discovered full blown, a whole system of characters, no one can figure out how they came up with it, one character at a time? And as for the Epyptians, well perhaps they sounded all silky and melodious like the RRRoooooomannnnsss! And as for that chewing jaw thing below I just came up with a theory! They were are chewing away, losing teeth and swallowing big chunks, getting indigestion and then along came this big jawed fellow (like Eddie) and he offered to chew for everybody and the girls all swooned for him, he got to shag them all and his sons inherited the whole tribe and big jaws spread like wildfire! (NT) -- spoot, must go now, big meeting at workie today!, 12:01:37 07/12/01 Thu
    • That's funny cos Hebrew doesn't have vowels either,really,(well, they are different shaped dots and they don't always get used), and that is another ancient Middle Eastern language. Does anyone know about the Bible Code which is supposed to find hidden meanings in the Bible that are only tracable with a computer................I must search for more info on that one day.............. (NT) -- Magenta, 13:38:18 07/12/01 Thu
  
  
• Abhorrant, apparently............. -- Magenta, 07:21:13 07/11/01 Wed
  I didn't want to get into this discussion quite this deeply, but I am in up to my ears now. You are all my friends and if I can't vent here, where can I?
  
  We are really getting into philosophy and morals now......
  
  I never even got my O Level in philosophy but I see myself as a philosophical person, but cannot put my thoughts across v well, so here are some points.
  
  1) We are not animals. (Tucks her tail into her trousers!) We are living souls, we have the chance to do more in life than eat drink and shag.That is the answer to the meaning of life!!!!
  
  2)Murderers and homosexuals - should they all be shot??????!!!!!! This is bizarre......
  We all know murder is wrong.........it ends up with someone dead.
  
  We also know that a lot of straight people have a problem with homosexuality, and some gay people have a problem with the idea of heterosexuality...........But nobody ends up dead, so live and let live!!
  
  I'm going now........
  

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  • No, no and no again. As i was writing late last night, I had the vague feeling that I wasnt communicating. 1) We ARE animals - we are just the bestest animals, 'cause we THINK. 2) Who said anything about shooting anyone? 3) Am I being misinterpreted, or am I reacting with an expectation of being misinterpreted? 4) Its not an air-conditioner air-conditioner, its an air-conditioner!!! (NT) -- gumtree, 10:24:47 07/11/01 Wed
    • I think we ARE animals and this idea that same sex doesn't happen in the animal world is false, but it doesn't spawn an identity in the animal world. It just happens and then everybody forgets because animals usually have short attention spans. Only humans label it and separate it and turn it into a lifestyle, especially the Judeo-Christian humans, the Romans and Greek didn't think anything of it and in the world of Islam, it is common for young men to go together until a bride is found for them. And now unfortunately I must go, must be to work! Have a lovely day everbody! (NT) -- spoot, 13:00:23 07/11/01 Wed
      • Gumtree, I get a bit over-defensive about these subjects, but I am not always sure what you are saying and not v good at expressing myself on the internet in a serious discussion. I think I should go back to joking about bees and jam and hoovers!! (NT) -- magenta, 13:10:57 07/11/01 Wed
        • But............we are unlike anmals in that we are capable of concious thought. Animals have feelings but cannot philosophise or mull things over like us humans. Animals basically eat and shag and that's it. We work eat and shag but are CAPABLE of more if we didn't have to work so damn hard.............. (NT) -- Magenta, trainee philosopher!, 13:14:50 07/11/01 Wed
          • The shooting bit came from where you said murder is socially unacceptable, which is true, but I added that some people would say that transgenderism is too. (NT) -- magenta, going for a long lie down..........., 13:26:13 07/11/01 Wed
  
  
• Nature vs nurture...............The big debate -- magenta, 13:40:36 07/10/01 Tue
  This is so confusing!!
  
  I don't know if people are 'born' gay or transgender, but I don't believe everyone is born heterosexual and something 'goes wrong' either.
  
  People are born with varying degrees of maleness and femaleness, and then nurture takes over so I believe in both.
  
  Not all men are agressivly matcho, I feel that agressive matcho-ness is more likely to be a learned thing rather than something that is inherent.
  
  Anyway, if we stopped compartmentalising people we would be part of a rainbow of gender instead of just black and white.
  
  That's what I think.
  
  Today.
  

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  • Love it, Magenta- the compartmentalizing bit- yeah, I don't think one "chooses" how to be because that leads to the fact that they could just as well choose NOT to be that.. and if THAT were the case then there wouldn't be so many people imprisoned and murdered now for being who they are-- if they could choose, they would simply choose not to be what is the "offending" type and keep their life and dignity. (NT) -- Bin!, 13:45:25 07/10/01 Tue
    • Hello Bin, Magenta, Gum et al, well I quoted Gore Vidal before who said that all people are born bisexual, they just don't practise it, and I think most of us have repressed any feelings as innappropriate or larded over them our learned reaction of repulsion. And I truly believe almost all gender characteristics are cultural and family based, there is one tribe in Africa, I've been wracking my brain to remember the name, but the men sit with their cattle all day long, gossiping and doing each other's hair and applying georgeous make up on their faces, while the no-nonsense women are tending the crops and running the village. (NT) -- spoot loves these discussions but I have to go out now!, 14:30:14 07/10/01 Tue
  • Hi Magenta! (LOVE your name!) I agree with you about it probably being *both* a nature & nurture thing. What makes the most sense to me is that humans are basically bisexual, but of course, are born with one specific gender. I really believe in people getting together because of whatever is inside, the *soul* lets' say. I know a man who grew up with a terrible relationship with his father. He wasn't abused, but grew up essentially hating his father and anything he did. He used to have girlfriends, and later announced he was bi-sexual. His mom threw a fit, told him he couldn't be bi. He identifies himself now as gay. In this situation, there is obviously a whole lot of other influences besides nature, though I wouldn't call it "nurture". Unfortunately, we just don't live in a world that will accept everyone the same way. (NT) -- Roxy, 15:50:38 07/10/01 Tue
    • Im not sure about Mr. Vidal, but - nature vs. nurture - who put the "vs" in it? I believe that we are Human Beings, a blend of genetics and environment - you cannot separate them. All but basic behavior is learned - and learning has many forms, only one is "the way yer raised." We make decisions through our lives (not making a decision is a decision) - and with personality one tends to what works (which can include being outrageous to society - being "different" can be as strong a desire as many others). On the "nature" side of things, if we are honest, homosexuality is abhorrent - (wait! READ) as its counter-survival, in a species-survival sense. I know of no animals that practice same-gender sexual relations (on a continuing basis) except Human Beings (I exclude infamous Malthusan experiments with lab-rat overpopulation). Why is this? Our overdeveloped fore-brain, re: decision making capabilities? Where does this lead? Why am I writing this? Aggh.... (NT) -- gumtree (digging deeper and deeper), 00:10:01 07/11/01 Wed
      • ...this is not to say that I am anti-anything! Just a curious conundrum. What is normal? Normal is usually defined as what is generally societally acceptable. Murder is not societally acceptable - except when everybody (or the ruling class) agrees to it! Oh yeah? What's the death penalty? What is war - even "just" wars are "making the other bastard die for HIS country" (thanks, General Patton). By and large, I have really never seen anyone but the obvious bigot decline conversation with any other person, except in a crowd - again, societal acceptance, mob rules. *sigh* - Its late - and Im losing my thread. (NT) -- a little more, for clarity, 00:21:06 07/11/01 Wed
        • LOL Gummy, you know socially acceptable is such a sieve innit? I mean all those Repubs getting all upset about Clinton's BJ and then, oops, a little bit of a mess in their own private lives, socially acceptable is what everybody kowtows to, not what they actually practice. And because I'm lazy I've copied and pasted thisold post of mine from Teri's board, it kinda links to your discussion above-CLICK HERE -- spoot, 03:09:42 07/11/01 Wed
      • Well I don't know about abhorrent, I think it's just a cul-de-sac, as the genes of gay people are not passed on but in the animal world a lot of males never can mate, they don't win those mating battles for the females, soo....what you gonna do, eh? Personally I wish there were more gays, maybe humans wouldn't number in the BILLIONS then...top of the food chain and there's soooo many of us, I feel our species is like cancer sometimes, uncontrolled growth and deadly metastasis until we overwhelm the host, the biosphere! That's fun! (NT) -- spoot, 03:16:54 07/11/01 Wed
      • Ha! Gumtree! I was thinking about this EXACT thing tonight- how it is unneccesary for a species to be gay, as the main job of a species is to reproduce and survive- yet there are gay people- so whyyyy? (NT) -- Bin! asking rhetorical questions like its her jobbbbb :), 04:06:25 07/11/01 Wed
        • Gum, the question is usually nature vs nurture, but I believe it is a bit of both. Also that nobody is born 100% male or female. The 50/50 people get the hassle. (NT) -- magenta, 07:32:01 07/11/01 Wed
  
  
• No labels in the land of the living............. -- Magenta, 14:16:11 07/09/01 Mon
  There are no Transvestites, Transsexuals or Transgender, there are just people. Most people fit into the boxes of male or female, but a lot of us may be physically female or physically male but not fit into the box.
  
  As far as I am concerned, men who show a caring side or women who can read maps (??!!) are fine by me - and probably by everyone else..............BUT it seems that when men wear dresses and make up society cannot cope and start to label people. Women can go around in suits, no make-up have demanding jobs, buy houses and that is all OK, but if they want a beard or to smoke a pipe, society then will go apeshit!!
  
  So it seems that when you change your outward appearance to a certain extent, once you cross the invisable line, you get labelled.
  
  And that's what I really came here to talk about..........
  

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  • And it's amazing how the most superficial things in life (that being appearances) are those that seem to get folks in such a dander. Why is that? Why should the gift wrapping matter, when it's the present inside that counts? (NT) -- Taya Huntress (Hi Magenta!), 14:38:46 07/09/01 Mon
  • It extends to all areas of appearance change. When we get older and "shift" form, we look in the mirror and see--our Aunty! And worry that people are reading US as the same type, stodgy, humble, or non-sexual.Stay Funky til you kick! or APPEAR as the other and blow minds (NT) -- Dorene-- SURPRISE! It's ME, 16:58:48 07/09/01 Mon
  • Hello all! Magenta I agree with you 100%....but I do have to admit that as open minded as I am it still does give me a small pause when I encounter something a bit different....but I quickly process it and go on...much in the same way if I see someone in a great outfit or something. But that's societies influence on me that I am desperately trying to change with my kids. They don't think it odd in the least to see a man in a dress and make-up....thanks to Eddie! (NT) -- Teri, 17:54:19 07/09/01 Mon
    • Welcome back Magenta! I think a whole lot of people just like everything in it's box and lots of rules and no surprises. So when some one comes along and looks outside the box, they get insecure and frightened until they can figure out another box to put him/her in. So it's like, oh he's a fag, or it's just a gimmick or he's a sex pervert, cut off his head! The last category is not a good one to be in of course, as no one can live without their heads. (NT) -- spoot, 22:27:10 07/09/01 Mon
      • LOL! You are talking witch-hunts, Spoot. Teri, that's OK to have a 'small pause' cos you don't quickly chop their heads off!!!!!! (NT) -- Magenta (Head still intact), 15:45:08 07/10/01 Tue
  
  
• If Eddie Izzard were in another walk of life -- Dorene, 17:09:38 07/09/01 Mon
  Say, if he were an accountant(other than the humourous possibilities!)--I feel he might subsume it all. As now,even when offstage, he isn't ON, the Free-for-All forum is over. He becomes quiet and uncharged--unless someone,or idea charges him--LOOK OUT!
  
  But he dearly loves the platform of the stage for Live It* Be It* Do It. Anything goes.And he feeds from the audience.
  
  AND, his energy is like a tanker--IN the harbour,idle OR OUT chugging along fullsteam.
  It's very hard for him to get out of either momentum/inertia.
  
  So he might pour himself into work-in an office--or he might divide it up. Be the Executive by day, the Tranny by night. NO, I think he would be OUT. But quiet-spoken and businesslike,if not tedious. Small smile to chumminess, but not diving in.
  And a street performer on weekends,or clubbing it, or adventure seeking.
  
  *I* don't know.Suggestions? All specualtive of course, but we are intrigued how this Mind of hers works!
  

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  • Inspired by BZC ,BTW. (NT) -- Dorene, 17:11:42 07/09/01 Mon
  • Hi Dorene! Seems today was the day for me, because I got this addy from two of you guys today! KISSKISS It's hard for me to imagine Eddie in a different job...but I suppose that if he was in an office job - he'd be one of those people who just shines. He's so brilliant, he'd have to be visible and getting things done fantastically well. Everyone would know who he was, yet he would have a smallish circle of very close workplace friends. I guess many wouldn't be able to figure him out. I don't think he *could* work in a very conservative environment - but I'm just saying that because it was very hard for me, *dress* wise, to fit in, and it took me a while to find a suitable style that was still my own. (NT) -- Roxy, 17:59:02 07/09/01 Mon
    • As for being "On"....I would think he's just like anyone else, ya know? I have days when I'm just totally NOT on, and it really is hard to get out of it, to find joy in something mundane, etc,....but that's one of the reasons that I love Eddie so much, is that he inspires me, somehow, just *being*, and then I can be ON no matter if I'm going out, or going into the laundry room for the hundreth time. We need others, or some happening, or a song, to charge us up sometimes, right? The great thing about Ed & all the groovy people here, is that there is always someone who can get you going! HUGS, Dorene! (NT) -- Roxy, 18:10:21 07/09/01 Mon
  • Huuugggssss to you,Roxy,dear. Welcome aboard. Think you're right of course--s-he's one of us,just a Human unit,no pretension--and yet loaded with Magic--also like US! (NT) -- Dorene- I might be away for awhile-The road beckons, 22:01:53 07/09/01 Mon
    • Hello Roxy, wow it's great to see you here, tres cool! I think we need another pronoun to describe this gender blend person thingy and I say "hu" which is short of human unit. And the possessive pronoun is 'hus" (NT) -- spoot, 22:33:55 07/09/01 Mon
      • Okay Eddie without the stage, hmmmmmmm, I just think he would have been drawn to it in some form eventually, I think without it he would have been so closed off and repressed. Too shy to talk to anyone, struggling with the TV urges, without confidence...but then he has that pigheaded drive so I dunno. But without reading or writing skills, couldn't be a scholar. Maybe he really would have joined the army. It's hard to imagine him without that stage personality, bigger than life. Coz in real life isn't he a small quiet man? (NT) -- spoot, 00:04:33 07/10/01 Tue
      • "Hussies", then? Hi spoot(I should be Gone,man,solid gone) Eddie's only quiet unless you push a button-in his head. Small? -ish,in stature maybe! (NT) -- Dor-byeeee, 02:11:00 07/10/01 Tue
        • .............He'd have to be a comedian...............And cos he is so fking funny, he would have to end up as a superstar comedian at some point!! (NT) -- Magenta, 13:43:00 07/10/01 Tue
  
  
• What is this man thinking? -- spoot, 23:31:58 07/08/01 Sun
  Aah I finally am making myself sit down to write some of my constant gender musings that fill up my head like stuffed manicotti.
  
  I don't about you guys but I am fascinated by TVs, out of all the gender categories in the transgender world, this one is the most mysterious to me, and I have a feeling it feels pretty mysterious to be one as well. You know there is the straight world, with those two big boxes, man and woman, and the gay world, still the two boxes, and the TS world, where you still buy into the two boxes, you just feel your body is in one box and your soul is in the other. And then the transgender, who either feel a blend, or who live their chosen sex without altering the body. And the Intersexed, who's bodies have the characteristics of both sexes. And then there are TVs.
  
  As I understand it, male TVs get this irresistable urge to put on the clothes and make up of a woman and that is the nub of it. Some create a whole separate female persona, some do not, some only wear one item of woman/s clothing, some go full femme. Some act feminine when they dress, some, like Eddie, do not. Some get sexually aroused, some do not. But the thing is they all feel this primal urge to put on women's clothes and look female. And I have read so many of these home pages and all the men, including Eddie, cannot figure out why. As Eddie says, he seemingly can only access the female by changing his outside appearance. Doesn't it feel like some sort of ritual? I keep thinking of shamans, who put on animal hides and go into a trance to become one with the animal god. Is it this, an expression of magic?
  
  And I wonder if, because it is such an compulsion and because it remains unexplainable, that is why it is so taboo. There is nothing in our culture which remotely resembles this strange ritual, except maybe holy communion, where we eat wafers and grape juice and somehow that means the body and blood of Christ. Maybe that's why Eddie likes that ritual and puts it into his routine!
  
  Of course in other cultures TVs are revered as shamans. They are felt to have a special link to the spiritual world, since they have this gift of both sexes and they stand apart from the rest of the tribe. Perhaps that's one reason why we are so irresistably drawn to Eddie, below our conscious minds, we respond to the magic that surrounds him.
  
  Or do you think this is all a bunch of shite? Eh?
  

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  • Grrrr! Okay try again! (NT) -- spoot, 23:34:06 07/08/01 Sun
    • Yeah! (NT) -- spoot, 23:35:12 07/08/01 Sun
  • hmmmm- all incredibly interesting and thought-provoking stuff spoot- I think it's interesting, also, that Eddie says he can only access his female side by putting on makeup, and "female" clothing. In a way though- we all do that. What girl would think of climbing a tree in a skirt with lots of makeup on? Nah, she wants to be in shorts, a grubby t-shirt and a baseball cap- her boy side. TVs are sooooo interesting- what I think I find most interesting is that eddie said in that one interview that he gets aroused at the look of himself as a female... very very interesting. I love the brain. Look what it does!!! (NT) -- Bin!, 00:17:04 07/09/01 Mon
    • Yeah Bin! And I do love the idea of Eddie being aroused, yummy heheheh. (sorry Gum) But the idea that some TVs and TSs have of womanhood is so exotic. I remember some guy saying he hated feeling like a man and wanted to feel all soft and girly and stuff, well I have news for you hunni most woman don't feel that way at all. They feel...normal. I dunno, what's the difference in feeling between men and women, besides that testosterone male competitive horny thing. Uh is that being a man? (NT) -- spoot, mind going into a pretzel now, 01:39:12 07/09/01 Mon
      • Well, I'm gonna steal someone's idea of sexuality and use it here- it's not feeling like a man or a woman, its a spectrum, and you are somewhere along the spectrum, and this can change daily depending on external and internal devices... maybe? (NT) -- Bin!, 02:35:55 07/09/01 Mon
        • Be careful with those external devices, Bin! Could cause a rupture or something. (NT) -- spoot yucking away, 03:18:37 07/09/01 Mon
          • Har har harrrr :-p Clothes cause rupture??? hehehehe- spoot always thinking THAT way :) tsk tsk (NT) -- Bin!, 10:39:50 07/09/01 Mon
      • Hey Spoot et al! I try not to think to hard on this subject....as to the why's...it's fascinating to say the least but I think it's one of those things I will never have a clear answer to so I just let it go....magic and that's all. But on the testosterone bit. I watched a show yesterday on a male to female transexual and she said that the testosterone drove men's sex drive and as a woman now it was a relief not to be driven by her genitals. Although she did still feel sexual it didn't consume her like it had before she went through the hormones and the change. (NT) -- Teri, 07:14:18 07/09/01 Mon
        • Yeah I saw a documentary about TSs and one FtoM said that when he was a woman he was so down on men for harassing woman but now that he is pumped with testosterone, he can't figure out why there isn't MORE rapes and harassment. He said the sex drive is insane! Poor guys! (NT) -- spoot, 12:31:55 07/09/01 Mon
      • Mmm - the "male-dominance-horny-testosterony-thing" is just as much a stereotype as the "female-monthly-bitchy-menses-thing" - people are what they are trained to be, for the most part - children live by example. Sometimes the example is good, sometimes not so hot. Some folk are deprived of a male influence early on, and end up preferring the company of males. Some are deprived of female influences early on, and bring the feminine back into their lives by dressing that way. There are also 63,549,096 other reasons why, as well, but I think I might run out of spa (NT) -- gumtree, 16:14:23 07/09/01 Mon
        • Ooh Gum, I'm so glad you dived in on this one, I thought it was gonna be just a hen party. Do you think that this gender identity thing is a result of nurture, you know that old nature vs. nurture, genetic vs. environment question? I remember a study of gay males and they all took some psychological test and it turned out that many gays, though they did not think they were female, yet they identified with the female as being the more familiar of the sexes, and they saw males as the other sex, even though they were males. But then, studies, there must be a million of them, filed away in Universities.... (NT) -- spoot, 23:57:17 07/09/01 Mon
          • Nature vs. Nuture - has there ever been discovered a "homosexual" gene? Why are there gay children of straight parents (now THEREs a conundrum - how could there be genetically gay children of genetically gay parents, unless theyre living a lie...whoo, think we'll leave that well dry!) Yeah, yeah, hear all the arguements about "Well, Uncle Bertie liked his tea with sugar - its no wonder about Junior!" That can also be put to learned behavior, and standards of acceptance. Inherited behavior? Arent sexual practices behavioral standards rather than innate (if we're talking other than reproduction, here, that is...)? (NT) -- gumtree, 00:38:08 07/10/01 Tue
  • Whoa. I just had a fleeting visual of a hologram-type omage. Turn it this way, earings,lips,legs,--Turn it a bit more, sideburns,leather coat,square-shouldered, Another swivel and it's totally blending AS you try to focus.I do go for the shaman/skin-change--and for the MAGIC ! (NT) -- Dorene, 04:19:12 07/09/01 Mon
    • ooooh neat mental picture there Dorene- it works well!!! (NT) -- Bin! who's first in line to order the Eddie Hologram, 10:41:38 07/09/01 Mon
    • yes, great imagery Dorene....seems very real. (NT) -- BZC, 10:50:25 07/09/01 Mon
      • Yes Hologram, mmmmm that also describes his elusiveness! (NT) -- spoot, 12:33:20 07/09/01 Mon
  • such a beautiful and well thought out post spooty, you help me organize my thoughts too, if that's possible, so thanks for that. I like your analogy of comparing the TV actions to a shamanistic ritual, interesting thoughts. The longer I'm into exploring Eddie and all that surrounds him, I think it is magic of sorts. I often wonder what it is about Eddie, that magnetic draw and where it comes from? Maybe it is the uniqueness and specialness of being TV, I don't know. Maybe the presence of both genders so strong in the psyche makes for a very powerful and charismatic being (Though I think this is just one aspect of Eddie's special combination of qualities). Two thoughts I often muse about that I would love to know is what is exactly going on in Eddie's brain when he's wearing more feminine clothing, how exactly does it make him feel, and is his feminine image as much or more of a turnon than other feminine images? So interesting.....I (NT) -- BZC, 11:17:16 07/09/01 Mon
    • I also wonder if Eddie wasn't in the entertainment profession, what would he be now? Would he be able to express all of his various facets of his/her beautiful self? And would those around him recognize and love him just the same? Of course my hunch would be yes for one can't douse a brightly burning soul, it's there in all its glory, fortunately in a very public way, to our delight....so these are a few things that fill my head as of late... (NT) -- BZC....so mouthy that 1000 word limit isn't enough!, 11:21:39 07/09/01 Mon
      • That's a good question BZC, and one that deserves it's own post, really. I can't imagine Eddie not being a performer, it's the essense of his soul, isn't it? Imagine if he had stuck with accounting, what your tax appointment would be like. Bonkers! (NT) -- spoot, 12:36:02 07/09/01 Mon
    • Oh and I forgot to add this in my main post, that in so many TV bios I have read, they mention that once they forst put on the dresses, it's like an awakening and so many of them are so intensely attracted to females and mixed up in that attraction is that fascination with the clothes, the fabric, the hair and the make-up but also they are fascinated watchers of all things that girls do, our play, our banter, our gestures, etc. But I can't determine whether much of the intensity of the interest is due to the fact that it's taboo for men and so it has to be secret. Secret taboo things are such a powerful attraction! (NT) -- spoot, 00:12:37 07/10/01 Tue
  • Hi Spoot! My first trip here to your board...although I'm afraid I'm going to wear myself thin (that might be a good thing) trying to keep up with all the boards.....I think Eddie has his own magic, to which some of us lucky folk respond. It's the same with many celebrities who have a certain "something" that we can't explain, but that somehow we can feel. It's individual to them, and to ourselves. I think *everyone* has their own uniqueness, we're just exposed to very few (relatively). Eddie has some particularly strong magic, no matter how he is dressed. (NT) -- Roxy *waving Hi! to everyone*, 15:57:45 07/09/01 Mon
  
  
• Billy Elliot -- Bin!, 18:59:35 07/08/01 Sun
  I just can't get enough of this film! When I saw previews of it, it looked alright , nothing special. Then I saw it, and it is absolutely fantastic!
  
  Billy is just like Eddie- trying to be honest, trying to live his life how he wants it, not how others think he should. And both succeed!
  
  If you haven't seen Billy Elliot, go see it!
  
  Love and Eddie Stuff,
  Bin!
  

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  • Yeah I keep trying to rent it but hubby always makes a face. Now next trip to the video store, it's a must! Thanks hun, and BTW when are you gonna get your piccy on Gum's website? (NT) -- spoot, 22:28:01 07/08/01 Sun
    • errrrrr.... good question :) When I find a good one :-D You can see me if you want here: Click meeeee The second one down is the best- Senior Banquet, and Im in the middle :) (NT) -- Bin!, 00:11:38 07/09/01 Mon
      • Just had another look meself- I really DONT look my age, do I? Sheessssh. (NT) -- Bin!, 00:25:41 07/09/01 Mon
        • You look adorable and it's a good disguise, with that innocent face you could commit heinous crimes and pin them on someone else! (NT) -- spoot, 03:21:02 07/09/01 Mon
          • Nooooooooooo!!! NOT Adorable! *sigh* Well, you're right about one bit- with my "compactness" as I like to call it- (okay dammit, Im freakin' short!) I can do anything, then look up with surprise and innocence- works too well, really. (NT) -- Bin!, 10:45:16 07/09/01 Mon
  
  
• 2001 Odyssey--(Odd Iz He?) -- Dorene--in a mood but dancing with it, 05:33:56 07/07/01 Sat
  This year is actually measuring UP on that theme.
  It's become an Odyssey for me and bunches. Of course Bushey is helping to rev it UP, galvanizing all the People, left,right,center and around the globe.Thanks, dickhead, we needed that!
  
  I hit some kind of runway in March, and have maintained lift-off. Great view from up here. I see : Eddie toning it down--too much, but No Worries. He'll learn to pull out the stops again.He's nothing if not a learner, and a quick bailer on Bullcrap.
  Like he did with the military youth endeavor? and accountancy/Uni? And being TV/TG OUTly?
  
  He's a reliably fullOUT kind of guy/gal. That's why we love him so?
  Now in my mind, he should have waited for an Avenger project that was truly a take-off, in the true,Emma/Steed brand of cheeky humour-
  And played Emma Peel! Who should have been his Steed?
  
  In fact, a medley of his faves would be cool. Eddie cast in The Great Escape in the McQueen role--for more laughs, come on, go with it.
  The Alan Rickman role in DieHard.
  The guy in the Alien movie who goes out to fix stuff--
  What a big, movie-dreaming kid!
  
  I do hope he can blaze new trails in LaLawood though.Obviously that's what it will take. They ain't PULLin anymore with their worn-out malarkey.
  
  FLESH Gordon was a riot--do THAT Edz.
  
  How about WRITE and produce one, digital-like.> Get Mr. Digital over here.
  
  Ah well, the rest of us can blaze trails in our minds and lives, and when someone asks where we got the bloody Courage, we can say the Izzard Wizard.(Or fcuk em if they don't notice)
  
  Then he'll wake UP and shout, Hold On! Wait for me!
  

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  • You can't forget: He wrote "Cows." (NT) -- Bin!, 11:08:05 07/07/01 Sat
    • Yes indeedy, and the thing I love about him is that even that Cows bomb doesn't register as defeat. He said maybe it's ahead of it's time and perhaps he will try it again using clay animation, and he has that contact with Aardman animation through Rex the Runt. He just quietly puts that dream on hold while he pursues another one. That's why he is such an inspiration, he never gives up a dream, yet he doesn't obsess to mania about it, just keeps it somewhere in his heart waiting for the right time and circumstance. A lesson to us all! (NT) -- spoot, 14:13:46 07/07/01 Sat
      • Oh and Dorene as far as the avengers thing, how about Eddie? After all Peter Sellers and Alec Guiness used to do multible roles in movie. but the movie absolutely MUST be made by Ealing studios in black and white. (NT) -- spoot, 14:23:48 07/07/01 Sat
        • oops rather obscure I was there, eh? I meant that Eddie could play Mrs. Peel AND Steed. There, now I'm done! (NT) -- spoot, 14:27:03 07/07/01 Sat
  • YYEESSS! spoot. The perfect thing. A B&W vehicle for Eddie to do multiple characters--like Guiness and Sellers! who also did women. Brilliant stuff. Or some such fantastic movie magic. In time,fingers-crossed. (NT) -- Dorene, 03:39:30 07/08/01 Sun
  
  
• Microsoft or Big Brother...you decide -- DoBeeDeux (avoiding Microsoft at all costs!), 11:57:21 07/06/01 Fri
  Article Printed in the Wall Street Journal July 5, 2001
  
  Microsoft Cracks Down on Sharing Windows Among Home Users
  by Walter S. Mossberg
  
  If you're one of the millions of consumers with multiple PCs in your household, and you plan on upgrading them to Microsoft's forthcoming Windows XP operating system, you're in for a rude surprise. For the first time, Microsoft plans to force families to buy a separate, full-price copy of Windows for each PC they upgrade. Each copy is expected to cost around $100. Not only that, but the company's method for enforcing this rule, a system called "product activation," requires you to let Microsoft create and store a profile of the configuration of every PC on which you install Windows XP -- even if only a single machine is involved. This profile allows Microsoft to "lock" each copy of Windows XP to one specific PC. If you don't allow Microsoft to collect this information, your copy of Windows XP will simply stop working in 30 days. And even if you comply, your copy of Windows XP might still stop working at some point if you make a lot of changes to your PC's hardware.
  
  I am not making this up. A similar activation system already exists in the latest version of Microsoft Office, called Office XP, which went on sale in May, through it allows you to install Office on two computers, not just one. Here's how Windows activation will work. When you install Windows XP, the software will notify you that you must "activate" the product within 30 days. You can perform this activation almost instantly over the Internet, or call a toll-free number. In either case, the comapny will create a record of your machine and link it to the serial number of the copy of Windows you installed. If you don't activate Windows within the specified period, it will cease functioning -- except to remind you to activate. (On a new PC, with Windows XP preinstalled, the PC maker may activate each machine at the factory.) If you try to install the same version of Windows XP on a different PC, you'll be asked to activate again -- only this time activaiton will fail, and you'll be advised that it's illegal to install one copy of Windows on multiple machines and told to buy another copy. The second installation of Windows will stop working.
  
  What if your PC malfuctions, and you have to reinstall Windows XP? Well, you'll have to explain the situation to Microsoft, and beg the company to allow you to activate it again. What's more, Windows will keep monitoring your setup to check that it's still running on the same machine. If you make major hardware changes, the system could disable Windows and force you to check in with Microsoft in the mistaken belief the program has been tranferred to another computer. One journalist reported that his copy of Office XP suddenly went into "reduced functionality mode" and insisted he activate again while he was using it on an airplane.
  
  Of course, Microsoft has a right to sell its software with whatever restrictions it likes. And the rule requiring a separate copy of Windows for each PC has long been buried in the product's license agreement -- that lengthy expanse of tiny type that appears during installation. So, in a sense, product activiation is no big deal -- merely a new method to enforce a policy Microsoft has long asserted.
  
  But there are three big problems with Microsoft's sudden decision to start enforcing this policy, especially in this draconian fashion. First, the company has never really educated home users about the one-PC policy for Windows. Sure, it's in the fine print, but few people read that. Microsoft has extensive programs to educate corporations about the policy, but in 10 years of reviewing Windows, I can't remember a single major Microsoft consumer ad campaign devoted to the topic. As I write this, I'm holding in my handa colorful cardboard sleeve containing a copy of Windows 98. Nowhere does it say "for use only on a single PC." Even now, Microsoft isn't preparing the public for thecoming crack down. I'm sure that the majority of multiple-PC families have been buying a single copy of each version of Windows and installing it on all their PCs. I'm equally confident that few of them did so to cheat Microrsoft. Microsoft calls this behavior "casual piracy," but I call it the natural practice of people who don't know better.
  
  Second, Microsoft is discriminating against home users in favor of corporate customers, as it often does. The comapny offers large customers bulk purchases of Windows at volume prices. In many cases, the corporate bulk purchasers won't even be subjected to activation. But Microsoft has no plans to offer home users a speical two or three pack of Windows XP for, say, $50 or $75 more than the single-copy price. In fact, the company doesn't even plan to allow a person who mistakenly tries to activate a second PC to buy another license over the phone or Internet.
  
  Finally, Microsoft has chosen a mehtod of enforcing its policy that smacks of an invasion of privacy. The company says its database of PC configurations won't contain any personal information, and will be encrypted so that nobody can misuse it. But Microsoft's bully-boy behavior in the marketplace hardly inspires confidence that it won't somehow exploit this information.
  
  So, bear all this in mind when you consider whether to upgrade your home PC to Windows XP, espeically if you have more than one computer. The upgrade may cost more than you expected, both in dollars and in lost privacy.
  

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  • That is absolutely ridiculous. (obviously). I do not plan on upgrading to windows XP- Windows Me suits me fine. Have you ever seen the movie Anti-trust? This is eerily mirroring that movie, or perhaps the movie was mirroring this. scary. (NT) -- Bin!, 15:37:46 07/06/01 Fri
    • I guess they can't help being monsters Ha! Not very smart though, since they have just been judged to be a predatory monopoly and they are now in the penalty phase! Oh well, once a scorpion, always a scorpion... (NT) -- spoot, who owns a Mac, yeah!, 23:26:35 07/06/01 Fri
      • Yeah, spoot! I'm a Mac grrl to! Got any Microsoft software you'd like to pirate? hahahaha (NT) -- DoBeeYoHoHo, 15:31:24 07/07/01 Sat
  
  
• Beautiful nails -- Bin!, 15:41:31 07/06/01 Fri
  Went in search for a comforter for my dorm room again today and my mother and I ended up at Filenes. I didn't find anything, but thats not the point of this story.
  
  The guy behind the counter had the stereotypical "femine" voice- he wore great rubbery/plasticy fun colored bracelets, a bubbly bright pink watch... I was very impressed with him until I saw the nails! Then I was awed.
  
  Beautifully long nails (and they WERE his own- I could tell) in a really nice light pinkish-white with little daisies printed or painted on the center of each nail. Suprisingly NOT tacky- quite nice. Oddly enough, it suited him so well!
  
  I kicked myself after we left for not complimenting him on them. My mother, on the other hand, didn't notice the bracelets, she didn't notice the watch, and she didn't notice the nails. SHEESH!!!
  
  Anyways, it was great to see him- wearing shirt and tie, yet still showing his real self at work. Good on him.
  
  Love and Eddie Stuff,
  Bin!
  

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  • Good on him, indeed! My daughter and I drool over a similar personage at our local theatre. We always give him a fond"meassage received" look and he smiles sweetly and wisely. (NT) -- Dorene--howdy Bin! I'm pressed for time,sorry, 17:04:45 07/06/01 Fri
    • Hey Dor- good to see ya 'round :) Next time I've over at the Filenes Bedding dept. I'll be sure to give him a "knowing" smile. So cool of him. (NT) -- Bin!, 21:39:04 07/06/01 Fri
      • Isn't that great? A few months ago I saw an older trannie walking in one of the big malls here, he kept his face slightly turned away from the ongoing traffic, his eyes downcast. He was one of those frumpy ones, he looked so ladylike in his dress and nylons and pumps. I wish I had had the nervie to catch his eye and give him a smile and a wink. Must do that, these guys need positive feedback! (NT) -- spoot, 04:35:28 07/07/01 Sat
        • Oh and since we are sharing..I had a similar thing happen to me....this lovely older man (admitedly dressed very camp...bright reds and stuff...with red fishnets on) at the make-up counter at the department store having the gal do his make-up...I resisted the strong urge to run up and hug him! So I just glanced his way and smiled...almost did the thumbs up as well...but I would have been completely over the top. (NT) -- Teri, 10:03:38 07/07/01 Sat
  
  
• Ran out of gas? -- spoot, 03:19:32 07/04/01 Wed
  Well the noisy buzz of brilliant conversation has really dried up lately, hasn't it? Is it because everyone is feeling as nonverbal and fidgety as I feel these last few days? Little slips of thought keep flitting about in my head but they just ebb away before I can decipher them.
  
  Well on a completely different subject, I won the bid on Ebay for the Unseen Frank Skinner show so I am waiting with baited breath for that. Actually I was the only one to bid, so pretty good luck that! Apparently it not only has Eddie bits but Michael Palin as well. We'll see, ho humm....
  
  I heard that the animated feature division of Disney has told the staff artists that if they want to continue working there, they must all submit their portfolios and demo reels for review. Some of these people have been at Disney for twenty years! There are animators, top ones, who have been told their salaries were to be cut by 75%! What kind of trolls could dream up such insults! Must protect those falling profits, even if you eat the seed corn!
  
  So we have to stand behind Eddie as he pursues his film dreams, and hope that he doesn't have to deal with vicious cretins such as these. Somehow we have to find a way to connect artists directly with their fans, without going through the Big Boys. A Napster for the Movies! I'd even let Bill Gates set it up!
  
  Kisses to you all!
  

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  • Happy 4th(?) Spoot and all! Spoot the ending of your post hooked me...as many know I've been a huge Bee Gees fan for eons (or so it seems) and I have banged on and on about them and their choices lately of trying to sign with a 'big boy' label...it's absurd! I have faced the fact that they will probably not be in the top 10 ever again but they still write and produce some great songs (this last cd wasn't great, admitedly) but what I'm getting at in my long and disjointed way...these guys have the power and money now to get away from huge labels and try some sort of independent music making. I think the smaller independent companies are the way of the future..there are some great innovative movie makers and music makers who are paving the way in the independent genre. Eddie may not get leading man status or be in a big blockbuster film but I hope he stays true to his vision of being in films and steers clear of the big hollywood machine. (NT) -- Teri, 08:47:48 07/04/01 Wed
    • Oh and I almost forgot...groovy on the e-bay win! I had seen that for auction and almost bid...but having already seen the Eddie bits I thought better of it....my recent e-bay wins was GirlTalk mag and Circus video....I'm an e-bay addict! (NT) -- Teri, 09:09:03 07/04/01 Wed
  • Hi Teri. My eBay obsession was short-lived. already had Eddie stash, so i hit the oldies--lenny Bruce, Python,etc. Exciting at the moment, but easily forgotten. All that quick-timing! The internet has made direct access possible; and digital cameras. The Digital Millenium. I would hope Eddie were right there in the vanguard. (NT) -- I'm confident he'll find a way in. "Skirt" the bastards! Dor, 07:37:02 07/05/01 Thu
    • Hello you two! I just keep hoping for that bootleg grainy home video of Lenny *G* Especially on the day that YOU were in the audience Dor! *sigh* I guess it doesn't exist or somebody would have made a fortune of ebay by now. Ah well...of to workies, I hope I'm in the mood for a large Eddie post tonight, kinda constipated with a large one, hope to get it out, sorry for the gross analogy! (NT) -- spoot snickering, 12:23:56 07/05/01 Thu
      • Gawd, my typing is getting as bad as Kylie's! (NT) -- spoot, 12:25:07 07/05/01 Thu
      • WooHoo! Another thought provoking post from Spoot...mwah! And should a Lenny **cough**bootleg**cough** video show up on e-bay we had better exchange id's so we aren't bidding against one another :o) I don't bid against people I know but if there's something I want..look out! (NT) -- Teri, 13:37:30 07/05/01 Thu
  • Stephen King tried something like this recently. It flopped though, he was selling a book over the internet, but they didn't get much of a response. I think it was because they were charging $1/chapter! But it was pretty ground breaking of him to at least attempt it. (NT) -- DoBeeDeux, 14:00:08 07/05/01 Thu
    • I know that Prince and David Bowie tried to set up stuff direct with fans but I could access their websites, my flash on netscape is wonky now. I think it's in it's infancy now but the whole concept is loverly. Tell me, if you could download a ten minute little short film of Eddie doing something exclusively for his website, and it cost $5.00, would you pay the money? I would!!!! (NT) -- spoot, 02:51:24 07/06/01 Fri
      • I would most definately do it. I do think that it's the way of the future but on the other hand there is this great 'digital divide' between those who can have computers in their homes that can handle the technology and those who can't. (NT) -- Teri~wot in the heck am I doing trying to think at 3:30 am?, 03:46:24 07/06/01 Fri
        • Hey Teri, cought me as I was about to leave! I think that maybe in the future the web will be only cel phones and stuff like that and maybe it'll be like boomboxes, everbody had one of those and they sort of carry it around. All you will need will be wireless service and a DVD burner and maybe you can play it on a TV! (NT) -- spoot, dreaming and now it's really dreamtime, gnite!, 04:31:21 07/06/01 Fri
  • No, haent run out of gas - smatter fact, got even more annoyed on driving south to my sisters for the 4th - get out of suburban Washington, and the price drops THIRTY CENTS a gallon?!? What goes on here? But - more on that some other time. The business with Disney sounds hideous, but typical - much of Corporate America is busy undermining itself with "self-examination" - we have even seen it at the Lazy L. Profit doesnt matter, its "are you living up to our projections of what we think profits should be" from the new breed of bean counters (recent graduates from Gods Own School of Business Administration). We dont need foreign competition - we're too good a killing ourselves. (NT) -- gumtree, 00:32:08 07/06/01 Fri
    • yes Gum, when I worked at Nickelodeon I had change to meet some of these so-called high powered Mid management types from NY Headquarters, sent in to get a handle of the locals. It was truly amazing how stupid and clueless they were. They had all sorts of directives on the New Way we had to do things, and once implimented, the shit really hit the fan, spewed everywhere, mass confusions, angry phone calls from our outside contractors and actors, etc. The new rules were usually quietly rescinded a few weeks later. But these clowns usually kept their jobs! (NT) -- spoot, 02:47:23 07/06/01 Fri
  • "Nonverbal" and little slips of thought could be a Good thing, spoot. Maybe you're shifting from logic to feeling mode. As you said once, It's the quick,wispy voice that one should pay attention to! (NT) -- Dorene, Just got in Page expired crap, now add a slash, 05:30:06 07/06/01 Fri
  
  
• Full moon, separation from Brits day, etc. -- BZC, 22:26:18 07/03/01 Tue
  So as is standard for me this time of year, I'm headed out of town tomorrow again for a bit, but I just wanted to wish everyone a great separation from Brits day tomorrrow and in the same breath also say how much I value and love my wonderful Brit friends that I've acquired from encountering Eddie two years ago, especially Eddie...but each and every one of my acquaintances and friends have broadened and enriched my life and I'm also learning a new language(British!). So thank you for that....
  
  Also....Thursday is FULL FUCKING MOON and the now very bright planet of Mars is just below it in the early evening sky with Antares in the near vicinity. So...everyone take a short moment on Thursday, get out of the house or office, and lift your head towards the stars....it's a gorgeous sight right now...you won't regret it. Sometimes those simple things are the most important....
  
  Best wishes to you Eddie....take care of yourself first, do what you need to do, regardless of what anyone thinks or feels...and thankyou for all the great gifts and joys you have given us, and may they never end, but if they do, we've lived like kings and queens in your words and presence and you've launched us into the starlit heavens for many moments and it's been great...so thankyou...may you be rewarded many times over for the joy you've brought to others... your good karma will be immmense...
  
  And to lovely spooty for providing this space for us Eddie nutters...
  
  
  Behind the Zion Curtain
  

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  • Aah BZC you are traveling on the 4th? Well have a glass of wine and a toast to the birth of this beautiful nation and let's hope we can age as gracefully as the nations of the Emerald Isles have done. I will be missing you BZC! (NT) -- spoot, 02:59:56 07/04/01 Wed
  
  
• Money (It's a gas) -- gumtree, 19:01:57 07/02/01 Mon
  Dateline, Alaska
  The recent lobbying effort in favor of "opening up" wilderness lands in Alaska is interesting, considering what has been done by the major multi-nationals with the current allowance. Here we sit, with Califonia virtually begging for natural gas to alleviate shortages. In the meantime, natural gas is being stored (really, re-interred is more accurate) in Alaska - being "pumped" from the ground and held - because THE PRICE ISNT HIGH ENOUGH. The vast pipeline built across Alaska to get oil to the coastline for shipment (via tanker) - it ONLY brings oil to Japan and Europe - again, the price isnt high enough here. Okay, so we're supposed to finance (through tax breaks and increased prices) further exploration and development of even LARGER natural gas/oilfields in Alaska - what for? To hold onto until the price goes up?
  Dateline, Florida
  Today, through some special toady deals with the President's brother, oil drilling off the coast of Florida has been allowed. Yes, "no one will ever see the derricks" because theyre about 100 miles out. Curious to mention, folks, a little "inside" info. When I was but a callow youth at GWU, I had a friend who an Economics TA - his family was heavily involved in the oil industry in Louisiana (for those of you without a map, both Florida and Louisiana shore on the same body of water, the Carribean Sea). We were in the midst of the First "Oil Crisis" He revealed to me and a few others, after a few beers, that there were literally dozens of wells capped in the Carribean, waiting for prices to go up. He made clear that the amount of oil we were talkin about rivaled Kuwait. I really don't think there will be any DRILLING in the Carribean, just tapping whats been known about for years, waiting for the price to reach a certain level.
  Dateline, OPEC
  Very quietly, several OPEC countries met recently to agree to cut back on production yet again, as prices were falling, yet again. These agreements are usually not worth the paper theyre written on, as if you get your competitor to slow production, you can increase your production but the price is held up (for a short time). In the meantime, our gas pump prices went up...about 25-30% in some areas. Why?
  Dateline, TracAuto
  Check this out yourself - go to your local purveyor of auto parts. Has the price of a quart of oil (the kind you put in the engine of your car) gone up? NO. It's actually gone down, as the price has stayed about the same for several years of inflation. Why?
  
  More energy efficient power plants and cars are certainly desirable - because in using less fuel, they pollute less. This is not desirable to the moneyed interests - using less fuel means less money. How to solve this? Lower the price for a (relatively) short time, get folk back into Major Consumption (large vehicles), then create a shortage. Raise the price. Discourage building new (and more efficient) power plants (look closely at who funded the anti-power plant movement in CA - it isnt the Sierra Club). Take your profits, and invest in the means of power production, invest in anything that aint oil. Look at what Exxon owns nowadays - amusement parks, real estate, convenience stores.
  
  What do you do about it? Write your Representatives in Congress. Let them know you're concerned. Consume less - combine trips in the car, turn lights off when you're not in the room...pretend there's a shortage. Above all, think.
  

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  • One good thing Gumtree, a majority of Americans do not believe there is any shortage at all, they believe that it is a manufactured crisis, engineered by those friends of Bush, the ones who put him in office. I read somewhere that much of the oil and gas in Alaska is owned by Halliburton, the company that Cheney just recently left. Funny, California has had no stage three alerts even though the temperature has been up there recently. why is that? (NT) -- spoot, 01:39:21 07/03/01 Tue
  • I heard that the reason for that is sort of going all unexplained...something to do with the idear that THERE IS NO SHORTAGE... (NT) -- gumtree (Gulf of Mexico, not Carribean *THWACK*), 11:02:56 07/03/01 Tue
  • Great post gumtree...yes I do wonder what's going on. One of my main clients is a subsidiary of El Paso Energy(3rd largest natural gas company in the world) and I've been subcontracting to them for 12 years now, doing environmental documenting on their proposed pipeline right-of-ways. The work has been constant and steady and ironically this year we're actually working on a 700 mile line that does terminate in California, but there's no sudden "rush" on the job and it's been in the planning stages for 3 or 4 years now. So it doesn't appear to be a big "shortage" in terms of supplying natural gas fired power plants in California from what I can tell. And this company I subcontract to is in the interstate gas transport business and I've never heard a work about a rush to get natural gas to California. (NT) -- BZC for whatever it's worth, 16:21:30 07/03/01 Tue
    • ....that's never heard a "word"..... (NT) -- BZC and I even proofed it! .....sigh....., 16:23:43 07/03/01 Tue
  
  
• I love this purple place! -- DoBeeDeux, 15:46:27 07/02/01 Mon
  It's so pendantic and thought provoking and deep. I've laughed and learned. But it's missing something (strokey beard hand gesture) AHHHH yes...
  
  
  
  Scenery!
  

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  • I love all these pictures you and Teri have been plastering around lately....this is lovely, distracting, but lovely. (NT) -- BZC, 17:45:02 07/02/01 Mon
  • Ah YES. There he is in his glory. Head high,eyes at half-mast, boldsexy mouth.He is frosted CAKE ,he iz.. (NT) -- Much cheers to you,DoBee, and to Teri also. --Luv,Dorene, 19:16:06 07/02/01 Mon
    • Oh my Lord, what a beautiful face! (NT) -- spoot daydreaming, 01:41:17 07/03/01 Tue
  
  
• This land was made for you and me..Guthrie -- Dorene--I'm still bailing!, 16:57:53 07/01/01 Sun
  Sung at an Arlo Guthrie concert last night,at the Hog farm place in Calif.
  
  Don't start with me about Euros invading and oppressing.) The FEELING Arlo, and Woody, created among our group--of ex-NOW hippie radicals (grey hair) and youth and diverse folk,SEVA,civil rights,etc--just like the not-so-old days was:
  
  Hope,spirit,alive. Make it our own . Sing loud and clear,like he said to do on the chorus of "Alice's Restaurant." Just wait..for the song to come around again.
  
  Under a winged tent stage,backlit by sun through the black oaks. Lift-off and real Love. Arlo's mellow and real;never sold out.
  Much great jesting from him and Wavy gravy--of Ben and Jerry's fame! (Much of that around to scarf--all proceeds to his camp kids.) Crack-ups about Bush,like "We had to fight against a war before, now it's for AIR and WATER?! Oh well, it's something to do"
  
  Very LIGHT, and powerful as ever.The people rising up..
  

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  • I hope so - if only to wake up and bring things to our attention. This time around tho, lets do without the drugs, or anything that interferes with thinking. A lot of folk got distracted from good things by drugs. Another bunch died from them. Some of us survived and are still able to think. (NT) -- gumtree, 21:34:57 07/01/01 Sun
    • Dorene is Arlo still with that guru woman, very large impressive gal with wild black hair and wears a third eye and talks with a Brooklyn/Bronx accent? I used to see them on the public access channel, really liked her energy even if I couldn't always swing with everything she said. Anyway sounds like a great time was had by all. I wonder if the pendulum is swinging left again! (NT) -- spoot, 22:01:42 07/01/01 Sun
  • I didn't notice such a person around. he had scads of folk backstage. His son,Abe, played though. (NT) -- Dorene, 03:49:53 07/02/01 Mon
  • The pendulum is swinging alright--left,right,center, and..off the map! (NT) -- DUCK if you can..dorene, 03:51:23 07/02/01 Mon
  • Or jump on and enjoy the SSHWIING. (NT) -- D, 19:17:29 07/02/01 Mon
  
  
• Yoohoo! -- spoot, 01:23:26 07/02/01 Mon
  Hey folks I've been off work all these last few weeks and it's been swell but tomorrow I have to return to work and so I may not be so quick to reply to posts as I have been. I mostly will be posting in the AM pacific time or in the evening. Of course that's why I dreamed up this board, it's for us gasbags, many of whom cannot join in chats because of our schedules.
  
  I do hope that you peeps will continue to use this blank page to express yourselves, you can see by now how stimulating, educational and entertaining this meeting of the minds is turning out to be!
  

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  • No worries,spootootie! We will natter on at will. I do wish you could catch a decent break! (NT) -- Dorene--Thanks much for the forum set-up, 03:47:26 07/02/01 Mon
    • I just came to say I am off for a week too! Will miss you all! (NT) -- Magenta, 08:06:54 07/02/01 Mon
      • Will miss you too, hun. Hurry back! (NT) -- spoot, waving with hankie, 14:06:34 07/02/01 Mon
  
  
• "This is our last go-round.." -- HempHemp Hooray!---Dorene, 03:43:42 07/02/01 Mon
  Richie Havens at the end of his concert tonight.
  
  He said "FIGHT everybody, cause this is our last go-round.That guy in the middle of the east coast wants us to LAY DOWN. Sorry, we don't do that anymore."
  
  He travels all over singing--since '67--and finds people are just the same; just as invigorated and fighting for freedom.
  His singing "Freedom" was spectacular. Rolling into it and growling; standing up and waving the guitar.I got a photo but was reprimanded slightly. He's very off-air.
  
  He called children the aliens we've been expecting! but they came from innerspace. And we better listen to them and get to know them. They're here to take over the world and will insist on clean air and power. (and you don't want to know the repercussions they have in mind!)
  
  The radio down played" Love is but a song you sing; fear's the way you die....Come on People now, smile on your brother,Everybody get together try to love one another right now.
  
  Right now, Right nooowww!"
  
  Time's awastin'
  

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  • Oh I have that song, I have that old LP, The Youngbloods! How beautiful the vision of utopia then! Well eventually it dissipated but not before we changed the world. and now that that crew in the White House is trying to turn back the clock again, it is up to us to say NO! Okay you can play with sixties fashion and all that but Do NOT try to bring back sixties society. We've moved on and we keep on moving! (NT) -- spoot, BTW LOVED your mail Do. Twas just the tonic needed!, 11:31:15 07/02/01 Mon
  
  
• Sorry, Spoot! -- Magenta, 15:54:38 07/01/01 Sun
  But the point is that in Europe, they understand that working is not living
  
  Is that what the propaganda tells you??! In Rome, maybe, on their Vespas, chaio, but here in UK we have a large percent of mutant consumers with empty eyes, and I have to admit that I too an a Useless Eater.
  
  and though people may have less money to buy things, they have health care,
  
  Make that HAD!! Yes, we did in the sixties, but now we have to wait 6 months for urgent operations, we have to pay more and more tax for less and less care. Then we are just proccessed with drugs for the condition and more drugs for the side affects....Don't get me started on this subject!
  
  an education system that works,
  
  Oh, no! Not in UK, but who knows in Europe, Land of the Free......But if we join Europe, it sounds fantastic, but it probably won't work as well as we think cos Europe will be just another USA but a bit over to the east.
  
  public transportation,
  
  NNNNNNNNOOOOOOO, not here! Cattle trucks and mass murder!
  
  cities on a human scale,
  
  I must admit that yes, we have some nice little villages........With no running water!!
  
  a full month vacation (almost a given for most jobs)
  
  You're up to date! That only came in a few years ago. We thought New Labour could change things.
  
  and a less success driven culture.
  
  True. We are a load of layabouts who have never done a day's work!!
  
  So there, my soapbox is all gooey with soap! Yeuch.
  
  And there ends my first official political rant.
  
  I tried to tell this to Bin! but I forgot to remove her rose-coloured* spectacles first!!
  
  
  *Cos there's a fking U in it!!
  

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  • MW- yeah, I guess I do have some pretty thick rose-coloured glasses on regarding England/Europe. But I can't help it. I think I love it so much because its not HERE. Every continent/country/town has its pluses and minuses. If there wasn't SOMETHING wrong then that'd be a little scary. I guess I feel hopelessness towards the US. Maybe I won't feel this way when Bush isn't the "pres" anymore, but for now I look at Europe as being amazingly full of culture. You guys have more history to learn from than we do. Plus, the green rolling hills are perty. Hehhehee. (NT) -- Bin! can't keep serious :), 16:20:13 07/01/01 Sun
  • "From the Redwood forests, to the Gulf Stream waters..." but the OTHER way round. and America won't join in. Stay happy and curious,lovely Bin! We are not local people here. We know stuff is like that all over (NT) -- Dorene- But thanks Magenta! for the looksee., 17:04:22 07/01/01 Sun
    • Hey thanks Magenta for the slap of reality! However on the point of health care, yes I know you have got problems but you have to live here to fully experience the horror of our health care nonsystem. Here you only have health care coverage if your employer offers it as a fringe benefit, and once you lose it, if you have a chronic condition you cannot get it again except at extortion rates. About 45 million Americans have no coverage at all and the number keeps growing exponentially every year. The horror stories, the suffering is immense here! (NT) -- spoot, 17:52:20 07/01/01 Sun
    • Wow! I haven't thought of that song in yeaaaars, Dorene! "...This land was made for you and meeeee!" Sheesh!. Okay, just to add a bit of negativity here-- or not, depending on what you think-- I don't place my hand over my heart during the Pledge of Allegience. Why should I swear my heart and pledge allegience to a FLAG? How silly! "...and to the republic for which it stands..." errrr republic? With Bush in office? "...one nation, under god (that's big of us!), indivisible (errrr, wasn't our nation completely split down the center just to decide our own leader? errr YES), with liberty and justice for all. That's a good line. Is there liberty for all? Naaah. Is there justice for all? Naaaah. Nowhere. But at least we aren't jailed for being female and for speaking our minds. (NT) -- Bin!, 18:56:49 07/01/01 Sun
      • Hey gang! That's precisely my problem with America now....I know everywhere has it's problems but we are a huge country who constantly says how wonderful we are....We are big and loud and trying to tell everyone in the world how to do things when we can't take care of our own! It wouldn't be so bad, I guess, if the American government weren't shouting in everyones faces how wonderful we are....'cuz..we're not so much. I don't know much about the whole European Union thing but from what little I've heard it want's to kind of be like us...please don't....we certainly can't be a role model for that system. Bin! I have a big problem with the pledge for the very reasons you state! The 'indivisible' bit gets me because we have federal laws...but sometimes state laws supercede those and sometimes not...why not have laws that are uniform throught the country...if we are truly one nation then we should be just that. (NT) -- Teri, 19:18:52 07/01/01 Sun
        • Yeah, Teri. It's almost like we are saying it to everyone all over the place, so maybe we'll start believing it ourselves. (NT) -- Bin!, 19:32:43 07/01/01 Sun
        • Hello folks, LOVE everyone's energy! We do have to live with the image of the Ugly American, who throws his weight around. I have the idea that all the world is following the American model of conspicious comsumption and a throw away culture. But one thing I have felt for a long time was that since the Vietnam war, Americans have been unable to take any idea of failure or suffering and so we demand that there be quick solutions to everything or we look for a scapegoat. It is a neurotic running away from thinking, from complexity, from hard choices. It's lead us more and more to be fast, frantically happy, hip, sensation seeking, driven, ill at ease, often exhausted people....Or is that just me? (NT) -- spoot, looking around, 22:13:26 07/01/01 Sun
  • Bin!der...I think the states' options are maybe a GOOD thing. That helps keep the control more locally oriented. Hasn't done a lot to advance medical marijuana tho. (NT) -- Dor, 03:53:42 07/02/01 Mon
  
  
• World Court -- spoot, 22:49:17 06/29/01 Fri
  They have Milosevic behind bars!
  
  yes I saw your post on the unreadable Izzard board Dorene and was listening to Public Radio today, the Serbs are upset because it was done rather arrogantly, ignoring their own legal procedures. However it seems the public may be changing their views on recent history since, for the first time, Serbs are getting to see on TV what the world has already seen, the Mass Graves and human remains scattered all over the former Yugoslavia. How strange it must be to suddenly become aware of your country's history. Is it like the Germans in post war Germany? The Hague has volumes of evidence, apparently meticulously tracing particular people's killings all the way from the grunt on the ground doing the deed through a chain of evidence to the highest offices of Milosevic's regime.
  
  I am thinking about our recent coupe de etat in this country and wondering if the World Court, or some higher power can take a look at the nexus between Bush, his Brother, the Election and the Supreme Court. And now Vice Pres Cheney is stonewalling Congress and the GAO, who want his office to turn over the names of energy group he convened to hammer out Bushes energy policy, he says he isn't required to do so nd there are privacy concerns involved! The Supreme Court has just ruled that states cannot enforce Anti-discrimination laws unless the discrimatory acts can be proven to have been knowingly and deliberately done, which is almost impossible to prove in a court of law. This Supreme Court has only ruled positively twice on civil rights issues. Once to let a handicapped golfer play in the PGA with his motorised cart, and the other time, to let Geroge W. Bush be president. What is going on here, can we figure it out?
  
  Milosevic was voted in, Hitler was voted in, now I'm not suggesting that Bush is in their league, no, not at all, but I am saying that democracies can be lost very easily, in the full view of their citizens. And I wonder if the American people will care if they lose their rights.
  
  Okay this has nothing to do with Eddie - no wait, it has everything to do with Eddie! He is about standing up and being witness to the truth. It is so much easier to let it go, let somebody else do the fighting, we are all soooooooo busy and so stressed and it doesn't get any easier. But the future is being created right now with us or without us. And the powerful CAN be made accountable!
  
  God this sounds so preachy, but that's just what this board is for!
  

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  • You're scaring me,spoot!No ,I was already scared,but we are in real danger of losing the People's voice.We are distracted by our bottom line perks. (NT) -- Damn hard to give "things" up--like Democracy?!!--Dorene, 02:17:46 06/30/01 Sat
    • Unused as I am to political conversation, i feel that we in the UK lost out voice ages ago when Labour became New Labour (NT) -- Magenta, 06:10:00 06/30/01 Sat
  • ....I think specifically in the US, we're all too busy fortifying our compounds of delusional security to notice the big picture(myself included here) to notice the big picture. It is frightening. Though it doesn't compare with the atrocities of Milosevic, I find the Bush/Cheney combo very frightening!...and what our policies are doing to people especially in third world countries is scary. (NT) -- BZC, 10:02:24 06/30/01 Sat
    • ...so I guess we need to "notice the big picture" sorry! (NT) -- BZC going back to bed, 10:04:32 06/30/01 Sat
  • As long as the country remains sedated by flashy television ads we're doomed as doomed can be! I'm with ya tho Spoot...what do we do about it though? Writing our congressmen feels just about as useful as writing the moderator at the One 2 Some board! (NT) -- DoBeeDeux, 12:03:49 06/30/01 Sat
    • Some lyrics that say it better than I can...Click! -- DoBee, 12:12:49 06/30/01 Sat
  • Far *Fcuking* OUT !! DoBee. I have faith that BushBacklash may regalvanize folks. But ,me, I see it as a play-meant to conclude. (NT) -- He's doing his puppet part.--Dorene, 12:21:07 06/30/01 Sat
    • I do think that as useless as it feels to write your congressman, it counts for something, they add up their mail and respond. I think Diane Feinstein changed her vote on confirming Ashcroft, he got in anyway, but she said she got 30,000 mails and it swayed her. But also writing newspapers, joining interest groups like the Sierra Club or Planned Parenthood, just getting unruly and noisy, that scares them! Milosevic was brought down by a mob storming the Parliament Building! I dunno, we just got to keep caring I think (NT) -- spoot, 17:53:26 06/30/01 Sat
      • Hubby and I volunteer for Planned Parenthood....one of the things I do that brings me great joy. (NT) -- Teri, 18:44:15 06/30/01 Sat
        • Good on you Teri! For me it's the environment, I've been a supporter of World Wildlife Fund, Audobon and The Nature Conservancy for about 15 years now and do letter writing campaigns through them. So naturally I just LOVE what Dubya is trying to do! (NT) -- spoot, 22:48:27 06/30/01 Sat
          • THIS is WONDERFUL! More! (NT) -- gumtree (applause), 23:51:04 06/30/01 Sat
            • I support alot of groups including planned parenthood, nature conservancy, ACLU, public radio and television, special olympics, cancer research, etc. But I definitely have the environmental bent that spoot does and I think the great thing about the nature conservancy is how they preserve...they look at the ecosystem at a watershed level and try to preserve the entire system which is really how it needs to be done versus spot saving to have any significant and longterm impact. (NT) -- BZC, 14:13:51 07/01/01 Sun
      • Good point Cap'n Spoot! I'll write and write and write! (NT) -- DoBee, 14:33:48 07/01/01 Sun
        • Do Bee can I use your screen captures that you have on Teri's sight? Loverly Eddie! (NT) -- spoot, 14:56:00 07/01/01 Sun
          • Of course you may...you have the addy I presume? (NT) -- DoBee, 22:07:36 07/01/01 Sun
            • Oh yes, I saved it! thankee kindly, m'dear! (NT) -- spoot, 22:17:20 07/01/01 Sun